From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V7 #63 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Friday, March 1 2002 Volume 07 : Number 063 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-survey thread) (npr, yes, I know I forgot the other one) [] Re: NPR - Re: NPR tag reminder ["j." ] Re: NPR Morpheus ["j." ] NPR: but TR: Tracy Bonham Update [Thierry Pottier ] NPR but TR: Tracy Bonham Update [Thierry Pottier ] NPR: but TR: Tracy Bonham Update [Thierry Pottier ] Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... [KrodKni] Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... [KrodKni] RE: NPR Morpheus [Erik Schalburg ] Re: NPR Spooks blizzard [Spidersrcute2@aol.com] Re: NPR Morpheus [KrodKnid@aol.com] Re: KPR top 10 songs IYO of 2001- early 02 [Derek Benton ] Re: NPR Morpheus [XWhenIGrowUpX@aol.com] Re: Poe Merch......WHEN?!?!? ["Rob Darke" ] NPR Re: Name that band ["sp00k@poe.org" ] Re: Poe Merch......WHEN?!?!? [Wayne Sassano ] Re: NPR Spooks blizzard ["sp00k@poe.org" ] Re: NPR: Name that band [Derek Benton ] Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... ["John A, Bell" Subject: Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-survey thread) (npr, yes, I know I forgot the other one) On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 11:24:55AM -0500, John A, Bell wrote: > If there is no universal constant of good and evil, the aforementioned > action occuring would present you with no basis for legitimately being > angry, seeing as that person's morals may dictate that they did nothing > wrong. You're still twisting my words around. I'm beginning to think you're doing it deliberately. Either that or you're confusing understanding with empathy or forgiveness. Emotion is not logical, hence the saying "think with your head and not your heart." > While people do not HAVE to adhere to a universal set of standards, that > doesn't mean they don't exist. I believe this standard exists whether or not > humans exist. It is much the same as I believe that it is a universal This what I quoted in my earlier email. Please see my reply there. > constant of the universe that light travels a given speed in a vacuum; > whether or not someone recognizes or accepts that fact doesn't change it. The speed of light is a physical, measurable characteristic. The concept of right and wrong is a mental construct conceived by humans. Otherwise, lower classes of animals would have them. They don't. They have instincts. Also, I realize that the analogy also goes so far, but light is actually affected by gravity (black holes come to mind) so being in a vacuum is not the only factor in the speed of light :) > If there was a universally convincing argument that would convince everyone, > philosophers would not still debate about the topic. Yet, they do. But the > resolution of subjective morals in the world (not just societal) cannot ever > be resolved, even if I am right - people do not have to accept truth, > whatever that truth may be. They'll just be wrong if they choose to ignore > it. > > -jb You realize that argument could go both ways, don't you? However, my primary complaint is that I have given you a rationale for my beliefs; you haven't really said anything except that absolute morality MUST exist because YOU, personally, believe that they HAVE to, and made appeals to my emotions as a reason ("how would YOU like it if it happened to YOU?"..etc). [snip] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 02:12:49 -0600 From: "j." Subject: Re: NPR - Re: NPR tag reminder Agreed. My apologies. I've simply been hitting 'r' and not bothering to amend the subject. I'll try to remember in the future. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 02:18:19 -0600 From: "j." Subject: Re: NPR Morpheus I don't use Morpheus, but I have in the past and I know people who do. As far as spyware -- look out for when it offers to install Gator and/or OfferCompanion or anything like that in the future. Morpheus runs the same software as KaZaA, which I don't use either but which I know is packaged with the same thing. I believe there also have been confirmed reports (BugTraq (?)) about the Morpheus/KaZaA client allowing someone to read (but not execute (?)) any file on your hard drive in the past. I have no idea if they have fixed this or not but I assume that they have unless they are extremely negligent. However, I feel that members of the list should be at least aware of this so they can make an informed decision on whether to run it or not. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:59:52 GMT+1 From: Thierry Pottier Subject: NPR: but TR: Tracy Bonham Update TR = Tracy Related ??? ahahah !!! I recieved this mail this morning, or night !!!! Thought a few of you would be interested... C.U. Friendly... Thierry _________________________________________________________ Le journal des abonnis Caramail - http://www.carazine.com Received: from info.islanddefjam.com (info.islanddefjam.com [12.110.192.38]) by mailbox3.caramail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA06500 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Posted-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Message-Id: <200202280534.FAA06500@mailbox3.caramail.com> X-Mailer: UnityMail Originator: Errors-To: X-UnityID: <20020228002818.B1FB2APP1AAAB8Imonsoon.538139@12.110.192.38> X-UnityUser: IDJ X-Mailer-Version: 4.0.457 From: "Tracy Bonham Info" To: "lookfine@caramail.com" Subject: Tracy Bonham Update Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:28:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thread-Index: AcHAGLrFwpnsQLyZR1u1jqzWQmGXHw== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 "Hey everyone. I just wanted to let you all know what I'm doing at the moment. I've got tons of new songs, and as I write and record I am planning on playing them live. Check out the dates coming in April. I've got a short east coast stint planned. I will be playing these new songs acoustically as a trio. It sounds great if I do say so myself. Thanks. Love, Tracyb." Attention Tracy Bonham fans! We are working with Tracy to create the official Tracy Bonham Street Team! As true fans of Tracy, it is your involvement that can make a difference. As part of this team, you'll be privy to exclusive contests, music, merchandise and interaction with Tracy herself-all while helping spread the word. Right away, we're looking for people to help out with Tracy's upcoming tour dates. People are needed in these towns to help raise awareness for the dates by handing out flyers at the show and at other events leading up to the date. Of course, you will get free admission to the Tracy Bonham show in your city. If you are not in one of the cities listed below, fear not. If you want to help, we would love to have your help! So, join the official TB Street Team now!! Send an email to tbfans@smgmusic.com, subject "TB Street team". TOUR DATES: APRIL 11th Boston Music Awards (Tracy is nominated for female vocalist of the year). Orpheum Theatre, Boston, MA. 12th Lizzard Lounge, Boston, MA. 15th IOTA Arlington, VA. 16th Tin Angel Philadelphia, PA. New York shows TBA - -------------------- Be sure to check out the Tracy Bonham website for all the latest news and info at http://www.tracybonham.com To unsubscribe from this list, http://www2.islanddefjam.com/email/unsub.las?id=2262527413825 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:05:21 GMT+1 From: Thierry Pottier Subject: NPR but TR: Tracy Bonham Update Hi PSYCH(*)S ... TR = Tracy realated ??? Ahahah, I did not know... Now I'm thinking of all those TR mail I sent to the bin !!! Oh, my god !!! What have I done ??? (NO, God... I was kidding !!!!) Anyway, I recieved this mail this morning... or night... Thought some of you should be interested... it comes from: Tracy_Bonham_Info@info.islanddefjam.com C.U. Thierry ______________________________________________________ Bonte aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com Received: from info.islanddefjam.com (info.islanddefjam.com [12.110.192.38]) by mailbox3.caramail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA06500 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Posted-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Message-Id: <200202280534.FAA06500@mailbox3.caramail.com> X-Mailer: UnityMail Originator: Errors-To: X-UnityID: <20020228002818.B1FB2APP1AAAB8Imonsoon.538139@12.110.192.38> X-UnityUser: IDJ X-Mailer-Version: 4.0.457 From: "Tracy Bonham Info" To: "lookfine@caramail.com" Subject: Tracy Bonham Update Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:28:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thread-Index: AcHAGLrFwpnsQLyZR1u1jqzWQmGXHw== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 "Hey everyone. I just wanted to let you all know what I'm doing at the moment. I've got tons of new songs, and as I write and record I am planning on playing them live. Check out the dates coming in April. I've got a short east coast stint planned. I will be playing these new songs acoustically as a trio. It sounds great if I do say so myself. Thanks. Love, Tracyb." Attention Tracy Bonham fans! We are working with Tracy to create the official Tracy Bonham Street Team! As true fans of Tracy, it is your involvement that can make a difference. As part of this team, you'll be privy to exclusive contests, music, merchandise and interaction with Tracy herself-all while helping spread the word. Right away, we're looking for people to help out with Tracy's upcoming tour dates. People are needed in these towns to help raise awareness for the dates by handing out flyers at the show and at other events leading up to the date. Of course, you will get free admission to the Tracy Bonham show in your city. If you are not in one of the cities listed below, fear not. If you want to help, we would love to have your help! So, join the official TB Street Team now!! Send an email to tbfans@smgmusic.com, subject "TB Street team". TOUR DATES: APRIL 11th Boston Music Awards (Tracy is nominated for female vocalist of the year). Orpheum Theatre, Boston, MA. 12th Lizzard Lounge, Boston, MA. 15th IOTA Arlington, VA. 16th Tin Angel Philadelphia, PA. New York shows TBA - -------------------- Be sure to check out the Tracy Bonham website for all the latest news and info at http://www.tracybonham.com To unsubscribe from this list, http://www2.islanddefjam.com/email/unsub.las?id=2262527413825 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:59:52 GMT+1 From: Thierry Pottier Subject: NPR: but TR: Tracy Bonham Update TR = Tracy Related ??? ahahah !!! I recieved this mail this morning, or night !!!! Thought a few of you would be interested... C.U. Friendly... Thierry _________________________________________________________ Le journal des abonnis Caramail - http://www.carazine.com Received: from info.islanddefjam.com (info.islanddefjam.com [12.110.192.38]) by mailbox3.caramail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA06500 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Posted-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:34:58 GMT Message-Id: <200202280534.FAA06500@mailbox3.caramail.com> X-Mailer: UnityMail Originator: Errors-To: X-UnityID: <20020228002818.B1FB2APP1AAAB8Imonsoon.538139@12.110.192.38> X-UnityUser: IDJ X-Mailer-Version: 4.0.457 From: "Tracy Bonham Info" To: "lookfine@caramail.com" Subject: Tracy Bonham Update Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:28:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thread-Index: AcHAGLrFwpnsQLyZR1u1jqzWQmGXHw== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 "Hey everyone. I just wanted to let you all know what I'm doing at the moment. I've got tons of new songs, and as I write and record I am planning on playing them live. Check out the dates coming in April. I've got a short east coast stint planned. I will be playing these new songs acoustically as a trio. It sounds great if I do say so myself. Thanks. Love, Tracyb." Attention Tracy Bonham fans! We are working with Tracy to create the official Tracy Bonham Street Team! As true fans of Tracy, it is your involvement that can make a difference. As part of this team, you'll be privy to exclusive contests, music, merchandise and interaction with Tracy herself-all while helping spread the word. Right away, we're looking for people to help out with Tracy's upcoming tour dates. People are needed in these towns to help raise awareness for the dates by handing out flyers at the show and at other events leading up to the date. Of course, you will get free admission to the Tracy Bonham show in your city. If you are not in one of the cities listed below, fear not. If you want to help, we would love to have your help! So, join the official TB Street Team now!! Send an email to tbfans@smgmusic.com, subject "TB Street team". TOUR DATES: APRIL 11th Boston Music Awards (Tracy is nominated for female vocalist of the year). Orpheum Theatre, Boston, MA. 12th Lizzard Lounge, Boston, MA. 15th IOTA Arlington, VA. 16th Tin Angel Philadelphia, PA. New York shows TBA - -------------------- Be sure to check out the Tracy Bonham website for all the latest news and info at http://www.tracybonham.com To unsubscribe from this list, http://www2.islanddefjam.com/email/unsub.las?id=2262527413825 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:48:05 EST From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... In a message dated 2/27/2002 10:34:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbell126@nac.net writes: > Good and evil are absolutes in the universe. They don't necessarily apply to > human behaviour. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can you maintain this idea when it is patently obvious that your only experience of the matter involves human behaviour...or aren't you a human? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:46:23 EST From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... In a message dated 2/27/2002 10:32:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbell126@nac.net writes: > The whole argument originated over good and evil, not man's perception of > reality or morals. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And exactly how have you divorced the issue from your perception of reality? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:20:05 -0500 From: Erik Schalburg Subject: RE: NPR Morpheus As a side note, I got on last night and it looked like most of the user base was gone. Anyone else notice this? - -----Original Message----- From: j. [mailto:jak@ircii.org] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:18 AM To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Subject: Re: NPR Morpheus I don't use Morpheus, but I have in the past and I know people who do. As far as spyware -- look out for when it offers to install Gator and/or OfferCompanion or anything like that in the future. Morpheus runs the same software as KaZaA, which I don't use either but which I know is packaged with the same thing. I believe there also have been confirmed reports (BugTraq (?)) about the Morpheus/KaZaA client allowing someone to read (but not execute (?)) any file on your hard drive in the past. I have no idea if they have fixed this or not but I assume that they have unless they are extremely negligent. However, I feel that members of the list should be at least aware of this so they can make an informed decision on whether to run it or not. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:26:10 EST From: Spidersrcute2@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR Spooks blizzard Yeay!! Thank you spooky for bringing snow to those of us who don't get it. Mainly us Californians along the coast. *kiss* (hug) thanks a bunch!! Tracie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:16:10 EST From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR Morpheus In a message dated 2/28/2002 9:30:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, eschalburg@venetica.com writes: > As a side note, I got on last night and it looked like most of the user base > was gone. Anyone else notice this? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is because it is getting blocked just like Napster did so they can set it up as a pay service. Even my "unblocked" version is now doing this...bye, bye Morpheus. Time to download BearShare. LimeWire, the other program that uses the Gnutella network, is still full of spyware as far as I know. BearShare has it too, but if you uncheck all the "extras" when you install it, you actually get a spyware free version that works fine. Here is where to get it: BearShare - The World's Best Gnutella Client www.bearshare.com Get LimeWire here: LimeWire: The Best Gnutella Client Software http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/jre/download-windows.html I am about to install the beta new version (after installing the Java2 which is also available there). I will let you know if it has spyware and how much and if SpyBlocker blocks it on installation or if it can be disabled. For the best, spyware-free file sharing program, get WinMX here: WinMX - The best way to share your media http://www.winmx.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:24:17 -0500 From: Derek Benton Subject: Re: KPR top 10 songs IYO of 2001- early 02 Okay, I think I missed the original post, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here, but these are just songs that I've heard on the radio that I'm going with here, that I think are the 10 best songs of 2001/02. They're not in any particular order, I have trouble choosing one thing over another as a favorite, I have many favorites, but here goes: 10. "Chop Suey" - System of a Down 9. "In the End" - Linkin Park (as well as the other 2 in heavy rotation) 8. "Lateralus" - Tool 7. "Bleed American" - Jimmy Eat World 6. "Hey Pretty" - POE (Sadly, I haven't heard the local station here play ANYTHING else by her, or that song for a long time for that matter..rat bastards) 5. "Overcome" - LIVE 4. "Giving In" - Adema 3. "The Space Between" - Dave Matthews Band 2. "Sleep now in the Fire(?)" - Rage Against The Machine (?) Or atleast its Zach De la Roca singing, I think I remember him leaving the group. 1. "This is how you remind me" - Nickelback Like I said, not in any particular order, and I'm sure there are other really good ones I'd put on the list, but those are off the top of my head. >=) D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:47:08 EST From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: NPR- new LimeWire Well, the new beta of LimeWire is pretty good. I seem to have avoided spyware (though there are ads) by electing to not install the "free" internet lookup program offered during LimeWire installation. I also deleted the "Install BonezBuddy" and that online casino icon which come up on the desktop along with the LimeWire icon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:34:12 -0500 From: Derek Benton Subject: NPR: Name that band Hey gang, I'm looking for help in identifying a band I heard once on a local radio station. I can't remember their name, or the name of the song (exactly), but I think I remember most of the album title. I think the album title is the "The false light of progress" the song I think was something like: "Shinobi Ninja vs. Dragon ...." sounds corny, but the song kicked ass, IMO. That is of course, assuming the D.J. wasn't being a smart ass (he's notorious for that). Any and all help is much appreciated. The song threw down pretty hard, I rocked out and the was like: "Who the hell was that?!" Thanks all! Derek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:58:23 EST From: XWhenIGrowUpX@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR Morpheus there was a story on yahoo.com this morning when i checked in. just fyi... didn't actually read it though.. - -reg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:47:53 -0700 From: "Rob Darke" Subject: Re: Poe Merch......WHEN?!?!? If there's one thing I have to say about the Poe merchandise... it's.... MAKE NORMAL DAMN SIZES!!! I'm 6'3 for chrissakes!! I don't fit well in a size "L". One size fits all... b'ah. The sleeves are so short it looks like I'm trying to show off non-existant biceps. XXL... too much to ask? Oh well, I guess I'm saving a lot of money. 8-) *sniff* Rob >From: Prozackitty16@aol.com >To: angry-psychos@smoe.org >Subject: Poe Merch......WHEN?!?!? >Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:54:15 EST > > > I've noticed that for the LONGEST time they have not really added >much >to her shop site. Theres pics of things taht arent even available yet. > >Anyone know when there might be more things up for sale?!?!? > > > >~Gypsy _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:44:23 -0500 From: "sp00k@poe.org" Subject: NPR Re: Name that band - ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:34 PM Subject: NPR: Name that band > Hey gang, > I'm looking for help in identifying a band I heard once on a local radio > station. I can't remember their name, or the name of the song (exactly), but > I think I remember most of the album title. > > I think the album title is the "The false light of progress" the song I > think was something like: "Shinobi Ninja vs. Dragon ...." sounds corny, but > the song kicked ass, IMO. That is of course, assuming the D.J. wasn't being > a smart ass (he's notorious for that). > Shinobi vs Dragon Ninja by Lostprophets from The Fake Sound Of Progress http://www.shoutweb.com/channels/?artist=lostprophets It was just dropped from test rotation at WBER http://wber.monroe.edu after failing to get 700 out of 1,000 yes votes. sp00k etc ... Http://Poe.Org ========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:18:43 -0800 (PST) From: Wayne Sassano Subject: Re: Poe Merch......WHEN?!?!? thats what I need! A POE MUSCLE SHIRT!!!!!! to the gym! Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:02:07 -0500 From: "sp00k@poe.org" Subject: Re: NPR Spooks blizzard - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:26 AM Subject: Re: NPR Spooks blizzard > > Yeay!! Thank you spooky for bringing snow to those of us who don't get it. > Mainly us Californians along the coast. *kiss* (hug) thanks a bunch!! > > Tracie > Thanks glad you enjoyed it, would you believe two days ago it was 60 and the sound of skateboards on those same streets went on until after midnight...? there are 3 board shops within this 1 mile strip... I been out a bunch taking pics of what it looks like when it snows... should be posted by spring when Im shooting the hundreads of skateboarders that go by... thanx sp00k etc ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:30:28 -0500 From: Derek Benton Subject: Re: NPR: Name that band At 06:17 PM 2/28/02 -0500, you wrote: >Song: shinobi vs dragon ninja >Artist: Lostprophets >Album: the fake sound of progress >Track: 2 > >your welcome :) Kelli, Spook, Awesome, I know what I'm buying next payday. =) You guys rock >;) Thanks again! Derek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:30:28 -0500 From: "John A, Bell" Subject: Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... Well, there's the end of this conversation, because here is where I'd normally bring external aspects into play such as religion, which has never been a popular topic amongst the AP crowd, so we'll leave this alone, and in my philosophy class, where I'm less likely to be stoned. ;) - -jb ----- Original Message ----- From: KrodKnid@aol.com To: jbell126@nac.net ; jak@ircii.org ; angry-psychos@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:48 AM Subject: Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... In a message dated 2/27/2002 10:34:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbell126@nac.net writes: Good and evil are absolutes in the universe. They don't necessarily apply to human behaviour. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can you maintain this idea when it is patently obvious that your only experience of the matter involves human behaviour...or aren't you a human? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:31:56 -0500 From: "John A, Bell" Subject: Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... It's called ontology, the discussion of reality and knowledge, which, if you look into it, has a lot to do with divorcing the two. - -jb ----- Original Message ----- From: KrodKnid@aol.com To: jbell126@nac.net ; angry-psychos@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:46 AM Subject: Re: NPR:Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-surve... In a message dated 2/27/2002 10:32:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbell126@nac.net writes: The whole argument originated over good and evil, not man's perception of reality or morals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And exactly how have you divorced the issue from your perception of reality? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:35:27 -0500 From: "John A, Bell" Subject: Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-survey thread) (npr, yes, I know I forgot the other one) Hrm. Since we're running around in circles because, I believe, we are not actually talking about the same thing, I don't know where this discussion can go. Yes, I do appeal to your emotional states, as often these are influenced by or will influence your moral values. But we cannot agree that we are even discussing the same thing, so... I don't see how our issue can be resolved. - -jb - ----- Original Message ----- From: "j." To: Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:04 AM Subject: Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-survey thread) (npr, yes, I know I forgot the other one) > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 11:24:55AM -0500, John A, Bell wrote: > > If there is no universal constant of good and evil, the aforementioned > > action occuring would present you with no basis for legitimately being > > angry, seeing as that person's morals may dictate that they did nothing > > wrong. > You're still twisting my words around. I'm beginning to think you're doing > it deliberately. Either that or you're confusing understanding with empathy > or forgiveness. > > Emotion is not logical, hence the saying "think with your head and not your > heart." > > > While people do not HAVE to adhere to a universal set of standards, that > > doesn't mean they don't exist. I believe this standard exists whether or not > > humans exist. It is much the same as I believe that it is a universal > This what I quoted in my earlier email. Please see my reply there. > > > constant of the universe that light travels a given speed in a vacuum; > > whether or not someone recognizes or accepts that fact doesn't change it. > The speed of light is a physical, measurable characteristic. The concept > of right and wrong is a mental construct conceived by humans. Otherwise, > lower classes of animals would have them. They don't. They have instincts. > > Also, I realize that the analogy also goes so far, but light is actually > affected by gravity (black holes come to mind) so being in a vacuum is not > the only factor in the speed of light :) > > > If there was a universally convincing argument that would convince everyone, > > philosophers would not still debate about the topic. Yet, they do. But the > > resolution of subjective morals in the world (not just societal) cannot ever > > be resolved, even if I am right - people do not have to accept truth, > > whatever that truth may be. They'll just be wrong if they choose to ignore > > it. > > > > -jb > You realize that argument could go both ways, don't you? However, my primary > complaint is that I have given you a rationale for my beliefs; you haven't > really said anything except that absolute morality MUST exist because YOU, > personally, believe that they HAVE to, and made appeals to my emotions as > a reason ("how would YOU like it if it happened to YOU?"..etc). > > [snip] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:42:11 EST From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: philosophical blahblah (renamed from the bitching-about-survey thread... In a message dated 2/28/2002 9:36:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, jbell126@nac.net writes: > Hrm. Since we're running around in circles because, I believe, we are not > actually talking about the same thing, I don't know where this discussion > can go. Yes, I do appeal to your emotional states, as often these are > influenced by or will influence your moral values. But we cannot agree that > we are even discussing the same thing, so... I don't see how our issue can > be resolved. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who said anything about resolving it? We're just kicking it around like a hackey-sack:-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 01:13:52 EST From: Spidersrcute2@aol.com Subject: NPR Queen of the Damned Just wondering if anyone else has gone to see it and if they noticed all the stuff that was missing. It seems to be a blend of the Vampire Lestat and Queen of the Damned, bringing the stories up to the present. It left a lot for me to desire, but my fiancee loved it. He hasn't read the books and so didn't feel deprived. Tracie so this is how it feels, to breath in the summer air to feel the sand between my toes and love inside my ear ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V7 #63 **********************************