From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V6 #453 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Wednesday, October 10 2001 Volume 06 : Number 453 Today's Subjects: ----------------- NPR- elastica: Strange Fruit Release-NPR ["BadBender" ] Re: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts ["John ] NPR RE: Libran Angry Psychos ["Notajunkie" ] RE: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts ["Notaj] woxy [mark alec ] Re: NPR: October Psychos [Lilieofpeace@aol.com] Re: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts [Dan989] RE: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts ["*Miss ] Re: NPR A Peaceful Solution. [EMOKidsSmell@aol.com] Re: NPR HELLO? NPRNPRNPRNPRNPR: Today's Topics ["sp00k@poe.org" ] Re: NPR: SCORPIO APS!!!!!! [bash ] Re: NPR: SCORPIO APS!!!!!! [QueenJezebel81@aol.com] Re: NPR: SCORPIO APS!!!!!! [Beener2100@aol.com] [none] ["Rita Bass" ] Re: NPR A clear head...... [KrodKnid@aol.com] Re: NPR A clear head...... [KrodKnid@aol.com] RE: NPR A Peaceful Solution. [Ed Hunsinger ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:35:15 -0500 From: "BadBender" Subject: NPR- elastica: Strange Fruit Release-NPR "Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elastica" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 5:35 AM Subject: elastica: Strange Fruit Release > Strange Fruit is delighted to announce the release of Elastica's > BBC recordings. Elastica recorded their first John Peel session > back in August 1993 and have since visited the BBC's Maida Vale > Studios many times. This album features material taken from all of > these sessions, from the first to the last in 1999 and includes > versions of the hit singles 'Line Up' and 'Waking Up'. Also included > are the previously unreleased tracks, 'In The City' and 'I Wanna Be > A King of Orient Aah'. Sleevenotes have been written by none other > than Radio 1 DJ Steve Lamacq. > > The full tracklisting is as follows: > Annie, Spastica, Line Up, Vaseline, Brighton Rock, In The City, > Waking Up, Four Wheeling, Hold Me Now, Ba Ba Ba, All For Gloria, > I Wanna Be King Of Orient Aah, Rock N Roll, 2:1, I Want You, Only > Human, A Love Like Ours, Kb, Da Da Da, Generator, Your Arse My > Place > > ELASTICA - THE RADIO ONE SESSIONS > Cat. No.: SFRSCD101 > Available: 29/10/01 in all good record shops or directly from > Strange Fruit for #10.99. Please send a cheque or postal order, in > pounds sterling and made payable to Strange Fruit, to 333 Latimer > Road London W10 6RA. Please include the following postage > costs (per CD): > > UK > First item #1.50 > Subsequent items #. 50 > > Europe > First item #2.50 > Subsequent items #. 50 > > ROW > First item #3.00 > Subsequent items #2.00 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > to unsubscribe from the elastica news list, or to visit elastica sites > on the web, simply visit http://www.elasticaband.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:25:12 EDT From: Spidersrcute2@aol.com Subject: Re: angry-psychos-digest V6 #451 NPR Now I know why I don't write that much...it's too much to read with a mind as fuzzy as mine is this morning. I'm staying away from the political stuff, just writing to wish a very Happy Birthday to all those Libras and Scorpios....I'm just a silly Virgo, one of the "organic" signs....Hehehe, like the whole mention of the Dead Kennedys...was one of the bands I used to listen to all the time in high school. Now they're good for long road trips. Ah well, enough psychobabble for today. Later!! Tracie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:30:40 -0700 (PDT) From: ndr Subject: Re: NPRNPRNPRNPRNPR: Today's Topics On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 JaunasAddiccion@aol.com wrote: > > This is the first of two posts i am making to cover all the mail sent in today. As the subject hints, this is NPR, so don't read it if you don't wnna and if you DO read it and you write back about how bad it is blah blah blah then you should pull your head out of your ass and realize why the term NPR exists. > 1: something left out of the article about the man who burned with a flag, well, not given to us on the list, is that the protestors were also shot with tear gas and at least one was killed. They do not have the right to assemble or protest, that is why these things happen, it isn't some sick thing they do, in this country, many people take for granted that we CAN protest everything our government does (that's how i can make this post too). But others don't...remember Tienneman square anyone? they didn't have this right there either. > I'm not saying that it's wrong for them to protest, but i'm saying that this is the reason thigns happen the way they do. Remember Seattle, DC, LA, or Philadelphia? Police would send in undercover agents to incite violence in peaceful protests and then tear gas and beat them down. People were crammed into jail cells and others with broken legs were forced to stand on them. In order to spread peace and prosperity around the world we have to start at home. Our rights here have become pretenses. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:37:59 -0400 From: "John A. Bell" Subject: Re: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts Actually, much of this was what I needed to see. Thanks, Dan. :) - -jb ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan98908@aol.com To: jbell126@nac.net ; angry-psychos@smoe.org Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts Hello jbell126@nac.net (John A. Bell), In reference to your comment: h On a serious note, though... I really would like to see h the articles of incorporation, and receive a copy of my h shares. The Articles of Incorporation are public record and I will be happy to send you a copy, each AP has one share of stock, rather then have individual certificates printed in each name the record keeping is done by database, just as it is done in all but closely held corporations. You do have the legal right, as does ANY Psycho shareholder to a share certificate. Datek Online charges 50 bucks for each individual certificate, Buy and Hold online brokerage will not even give you one under their terms of usage. The first meeting of the Board is scheduled by law and at your request I will place on the agenda a determination of what individual certificates will cost. It actually is not as simple as it sounds, EACH individual stock certificate must be accounted for and filed with the Secretary of State's office. While I don't think it will cost 50 bucks, it will cost the direct production costs, the cost of mailing, and filing fees with the State. I will get back to you on the costs when they are set November 9th at the first meeting. By the way, all Board of Director's meetings will be online, except for special meetings associated with AP events which will still be open for the shareholders and minutes will be provided on request. The bylaws which evolve and will be voted on by the shareholders will specify the specific items that can be discussed in executive sessions. It is my hope those items will be severely limited. Financial reports will be posted on the official website. I have received a couple private emails asking about accounting methods and safeguards for the funds. My proposed bylaw item on that ( and I am the treasurer for the first 6 months at which time my term will expire and I will be subject to reelection, should I choose to run again) is that any expenditure greater then $50 must be signed by two board members, any greater then $500 must be voted on by the full Board. As you saw the Board is set up so that two directors will be elected or reelected each year for three year terms, that way there will be continuity on the Board. I have already, after consulting with the other Board members, made inquiries with Atlantic Records, Fishkin Entertainment, and Nettwerk Management to allow Angry Psychos, Inc to be licensed to sell Poe fashions (specifically Julie and Mike's T Shirts), as well as the possibility of selling other Poe licensed items, i.e. CDs and perhaps even future licensed "bootleg" unreleased material, Poe antenna balls and Poe squishy stress balls. These would be sold to APs at greatly reduced costs to APs and at regular prices to the public to help finance AP events. I have also begun discussions with the above groups to set up a series of chats that will be established by written contract so there is no confusion as to when or if they will occur. I have requested a series schedule with various members of Poe's band as well as with Poe. I know for some all this legal BS seems a pain, but I believe most, if not all of you can see the doors of opportunity having a formal structure opens up for us. Just using our combined marketing abilities as an example...we have proven ourselves with Atlantic in the Hey Pretty campaign. But Atlantic is big business. They do EVERYTHING by contract! Before the corporation existed it was not POSSIBLE for Atlantic, Fishkin Entertainment, Nettwerk or ANYONE to contract with us or "allow" us to do ANYTHING formally because from a legal standpoint "we" did not exist! Now we do and I think this should help in a HUGE way to resolve the communications issues that we have been experiencing. It certainly will give us improved standing in the corporate music world. And, unfortunately, it seems the days of Poe coming to our houses after a show (like Borders meet and greets) on a phone call are sadly nearing or at an end. This way we can book her like record stores and radio stations do and KNOW she will be there and that she has been properly informed and agreed to it. Makes life cleaner and easier for ALL of us. I know a lot of you were as bored reading this as I was writing it, but I also think those of you that took the time can see this is a major positive step forward. In the future the "corporate" workings of Angry Psychos, Inc should be as invisible as the corporate workings of Hott Topics, but this is new now and there will be a lot of questions, like the one that prompted this one. I will use the AP,IncR: header when I post legal stuff like this so those of you that are not interested can skip it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:40:27 -0400 From: "Notajunkie" Subject: NPR RE: Libran Angry Psychos I'm proud to be a LAP then... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Irockedyermom@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 3:10 AM > To: angry-psychos@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Libran Angry Psychos [sorta PR] > > > > You know, LAP would also stand for Leo Angry Psychos [one of > which I would > belong, *rawr*], as well as Lame Ambidextrous Perverts, Lustful > Aprhodesiac > Persons, and the like... > > > > > > We should create our own exclusive Libra Angry-Psycho list. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:43:03 -0400 From: "Notajunkie" Subject: RE: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts YEs, thanks Dan... This was VERY informative, and answered a couple questions I had too... your the man, dan - "I don't want to die I don't want to kill We are all human It's time to prove it" --911 for Peace > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org]On Behalf Of John A. Bell > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:38 PM > To: Dan98908@aol.com; angry-psychos@smoe.org > Subject: Re: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and > bolts > > > > Actually, much of this was what I needed to see. Thanks, Dan. :) > > -jb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan98908@aol.com > To: jbell126@nac.net ; angry-psychos@smoe.org > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:17 PM > Subject: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts > > > Hello jbell126@nac.net (John A. Bell), > > In reference to your comment: > > h On a serious note, though... I really would like to see > h the articles of incorporation, and receive a copy of my > h shares. > > The Articles of Incorporation are public record and I will be > happy to send > you a copy, each AP has one share of stock, rather then have individual > certificates printed in each name the record keeping is done by > database, just > as it is done in all but closely held corporations. > > You do have the legal right, as does ANY Psycho shareholder to a share > certificate. Datek Online charges 50 bucks for each individual > certificate, > Buy and Hold online brokerage will not even give you one under > their terms of > usage. > > The first meeting of the Board is scheduled by law and at your request I > will place on the agenda a determination of what individual > certificates will > cost. It actually is not as simple as it sounds, EACH individual stock > certificate must be accounted for and filed with the Secretary of State's > office. > > While I don't think it will cost 50 bucks, it will cost the direct > production costs, the cost of mailing, and filing fees with the > State. I will > get back to you on the costs when they are set November 9th at the first > meeting. > > By the way, all Board of Director's meetings will be online, except for > special meetings associated with AP events which will still be > open for the > shareholders and minutes will be provided on request. The bylaws > which evolve > and will be voted on by the shareholders will specify the > specific items that > can be discussed in executive sessions. It is my hope those items will be > severely limited. > > Financial reports will be posted on the official website. I > have received a > couple private emails asking about accounting methods and > safeguards for the > funds. My proposed bylaw item on that ( and I am the treasurer > for the first > 6 months at which time my term will expire and I will be subject to > reelection, should I choose to run again) is that any expenditure > greater then > $50 must be signed by two board members, any greater then $500 > must be voted > on by the full Board. > > As you saw the Board is set up so that two directors will be elected or > reelected each year for three year terms, that way there will be > continuity on > the Board. > > I have already, after consulting with the other Board members, made > inquiries with Atlantic Records, Fishkin Entertainment, and Nettwerk > Management to allow Angry Psychos, Inc to be licensed to sell Poe fashions > (specifically Julie and Mike's T Shirts), as well as the possibility of > selling other Poe licensed items, i.e. CDs and perhaps even > future licensed > "bootleg" unreleased material, Poe antenna balls and Poe squishy stress > balls. These would be sold to APs at greatly reduced costs to APs and at > regular prices to the public to help finance AP events. > > I have also begun discussions with the above groups to set up a > series of > chats that will be established by written contract so there is no > confusion as > to when or if they will occur. I have requested a series schedule with > various members of Poe's band as well as with Poe. > > I know for some all this legal BS seems a pain, but I believe > most, if not > all of you can see the doors of opportunity having a formal > structure opens up > for us. Just using our combined marketing abilities as an > example...we have > proven ourselves with Atlantic in the Hey Pretty campaign. But > Atlantic is > big business. They do EVERYTHING by contract! Before the > corporation existed > it was not POSSIBLE for Atlantic, Fishkin Entertainment, Nettwerk > or ANYONE to > contract with us or "allow" us to do ANYTHING formally because > from a legal > standpoint "we" did not exist! > > Now we do and I think this should help in a HUGE way to resolve the > communications issues that we have been experiencing. It > certainly will give > us improved standing in the corporate music world. And, unfortunately, it > seems the days of Poe coming to our houses after a show (like > Borders meet and > greets) on a phone call are sadly nearing or at an end. This way > we can book > her like record stores and radio stations do and KNOW she will be > there and > that she has been properly informed and agreed to it. Makes life > cleaner and > easier for ALL of us. > > I know a lot of you were as bored reading this as I was writing > it, but I > also think those of you that took the time can see this is a > major positive > step forward. In the future the "corporate" workings of Angry > Psychos, Inc > should be as invisible as the corporate workings of Hott Topics, > but this is > new now and there will be a lot of questions, like the one that > prompted this > one. > > I will use the AP,IncR: header when I post legal stuff like > this so those > of you that are not interested can skip it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: mark alec Subject: woxy as a final total for yesterday.. i sent in a total of i think 7 requests.. i don't remember exactly.. somewhere around there. and i'm still planning on bombarding them! on other station news, what's the word on our progress? i haven't heard any one give us updates.. remember fellow aps.. we need radio play for poe!!!!! k. i'm done for now. i'll post again later. ===== mark alec http://www.worldofalec.org/ alec@poe.org the no-quote signature.. Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:03:24 EDT From: Lilieofpeace@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR: October Psychos Right on to us October Scorpios! I'm October 26... my birthday is in 16 days!!!!!!!!!! ok i think i'm a little too excited...but it's my birthday damn it! i'm allowed. have a nice day all Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:03:27 EDT From: Dan98908@aol.com Subject: Re: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts Hello notajunkie@yahoo.com (Notajunkie), In reference to your comment: h YEs, thanks Dan... This was VERY informative, and h answered a couple questions I had too... If ANY of you have questions please feel free to ask, I do not consider questions stupid, if you don't know the answer! You may VERY well come up with something we haven't thought of and need to address in the bylaws we will be writing starting Nov 9th and it is better to get it on the agenda now then later ( though later is fine too). I know a lot of you have never been involved in a business yet. But Angry Psychos,Inc. is YOU! Feel free to email me private or even call me at (800) 646-4392. We even have a fax, if you like the old fashioned way, at (509) 248-2056. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:09:16 -0700 From: "*Miss Understood*" Subject: RE: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts Dan has ALWAYS been the man, even before this whole AP, Inc. came about... Keep Rockin our Lady Love... Portland hugs :) Melissa "You may be king for the moment But I am a queen understand, And I've got your pawns and your bishops and castles All inside the palm of my hand" ~ P(*)E _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:15:37 EDT From: EMOKidsSmell@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR A Peaceful Solution. Did you want sausage or bacon???? In a message dated 10/9/01 1:59:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Krod Knid writes: << *SMACK!* Shut up and get back in the kitchen! Hehehehe... >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:17:46 -0400 From: "sp00k@poe.org" Subject: Re: NPR HELLO? NPRNPRNPRNPRNPR: Today's Topics - ----- Original Message ----- From: "ndr" > Remember Seattle, DC, LA, or Philadelphia? Police would send in undercover > agents to incite violence in peaceful protests and then tear gas and beat > them down. People were crammed into jail cells and others with broken legs > were forced to stand on them. In order to spread peace and prosperity > around the world we have to start at home. Our rights here have become > pretenses. > Here, try some current events, since I can't include the URL becase it does not translate well via mail, I will send a couple paragraphs from stories gleaned from http://drudgereport.com if you are REALLY interested in what is going on you might try reading. FBI probe hijacker anthrax link by Nigel Rosser and Mike McDonagh The anthrax scare gripping America intensified today as a link emerged between two of Osama bin Laden's hijackers and the building where a man contracted the fatal disease. Investigators believe that two hijackers had subscriptions to the tabloid newspapers published in the Boca Raton headquarters of American Media Inc, where the British-born picture editor Robert Stevens is believed to have contracted anthrax. The link would cause massive alarm because it is known that Osama bin Laden's operatives have been trying to obtain chemical and biological weapons. Mohammed Atta, one of the hijack leaders, stayed nearby and tried to hire a cropspraying-plane in the hope of mounting a chemical-attack. Several other suicide hijackers visited a crop-dusting business in Belle Glade, 40 miles away http://www.geostrategy-direct.com/geostrategy-direct/ Manhunt on for Bin Laden's Russian connection Spanish authorities are investigating a Russian organized crime figure for his ties to the al-Qaeda terrorist group headed by Osama Bin Laden. Semion Mogilevich has been tied to efforts by the Bin Laden network to obtain 'suitcase' nuclear weapons.. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Semion Mogilevich is suspected by Spanish intelligence and security police of being connected to Bin Laden and his group's efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction material and components on the black market. Mogilevich is a Ukrainian by birth who carries an Israeli passport. U.S. intelligence officials said Mogilevich may be a key connection to efforts by al-Qaeda to acquire so-called "suitcase" tactical nuclear weapons that Russian officials have said are not completely accounted for since the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991. There REALLY are things going on a little more important at the moment. America will ALWAYS be a place for and of dissent, if not it would become VERY boring. At the MOMENT however, there seems to be some issues that are a bit more urgent , and that might render your complaint to minor annoyance. sp00k etc ... ================================================================ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:27:15 EDT From: EMOKidsSmell@aol.com Subject: NPR: SCORPIO APS!!!!!! Wow! This year went by fast. My birthday is November 12th. Last year POE was in town for my birthday. Here's hopin for two in a row! Scorpios rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Megan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:29:37 EDT From: Dan98908@aol.com Subject: Re: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts I have a question that was posed that asked why there were no women on the Board. I agree that is a good question! There are three women that were invited to join the initial Board. One declined do to school schedules, one accepted last night and needs to be confirmed by the initial Board, and one has not responded yet. There will be women on the initial Board and how many in the future will be determined by YOU. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:33:27 -0400 (EDT) From: plexor Subject: Re: AP,Inc related kinda Poe related, corporation nuts and bolts Thanks for spelling it all out and for everyone that was involved in making this happen. :) On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 Dan98908@aol.com wrote: > > Hello jbell126@nac.net (John A. Bell), > > In reference to your comment: > > h On a serious note, though... I really would like to see > h the articles of incorporation, and receive a copy of my > h shares. > > The Articles of Incorporation are public record and I will be happy to send > you a copy, each AP has one share of stock, rather then have individual > certificates printed in each name the record keeping is done by database, > just as it is done in all but closely held corporations. > > You do have the legal right, as does ANY Psycho shareholder to a share > certificate. Datek Online charges 50 bucks for each individual certificate, > Buy and Hold online brokerage will not even give you one under their terms of > usage. > > The first meeting of the Board is scheduled by law and at your request I will > place on the agenda a determination of what individual certificates will > cost. It actually is not as simple as it sounds, EACH individual stock > certificate must be accounted for and filed with the Secretary of State's > office. > > While I don't think it will cost 50 bucks, it will cost the direct production > costs, the cost of mailing, and filing fees with the State. I will get back > to you on the costs when they are set November 9th at the first meeting. > > By the way, all Board of Director's meetings will be online, except for > special meetings associated with AP events which will still be open for the > shareholders and minutes will be provided on request. The bylaws which > evolve and will be voted on by the shareholders will specify the specific > items that can be discussed in executive sessions. It is my hope those items > will be severely limited. > > Financial reports will be posted on the official website. I have received a > couple private emails asking about accounting methods and safeguards for the > funds. My proposed bylaw item on that ( and I am the treasurer for the first > 6 months at which time my term will expire and I will be subject to > reelection, should I choose to run again) is that any expenditure greater > then $50 must be signed by two board members, any greater then $500 must be > voted on by the full Board. > > As you saw the Board is set up so that two directors will be elected or > reelected each year for three year terms, that way there will be continuity > on the Board. > > I have already, after consulting with the other Board members, made inquiries > with Atlantic Records, Fishkin Entertainment, and Nettwerk Management to > allow Angry Psychos, Inc to be licensed to sell Poe fashions (specifically > Julie and Mike's T Shirts), as well as the possibility of selling other Poe > licensed items, i.e. CDs and perhaps even future licensed "bootleg" > unreleased material, Poe antenna balls and Poe squishy stress balls. These > would be sold to APs at greatly reduced costs to APs and at regular prices to > the public to help finance AP events. > > I have also begun discussions with the above groups to set up a series of > chats that will be established by written contract so there is no confusion > as to when or if they will occur. I have requested a series schedule with > various members of Poe's band as well as with Poe. > > I know for some all this legal BS seems a pain, but I believe most, if not > all of you can see the doors of opportunity having a formal structure opens > up for us. Just using our combined marketing abilities as an example...we > have proven ourselves with Atlantic in the Hey Pretty campaign. But Atlantic > is big business. They do EVERYTHING by contract! Before the corporation > existed it was not POSSIBLE for Atlantic, Fishkin Entertainment, Nettwerk or > ANYONE to contract with us or "allow" us to do ANYTHING formally because from > a legal standpoint "we" did not exist! > > Now we do and I think this should help in a HUGE way to resolve the > communications issues that we have been experiencing. It certainly will give > us improved standing in the corporate music world. And, unfortunately, it > seems the days of Poe coming to our houses after a show (like Borders meet > and greets) on a phone call are sadly nearing or at an end. This way we can > book her like record stores and radio stations do and KNOW she will be there > and that she has been properly informed and agreed to it. Makes life > cleaner and easier for ALL of us. > > I know a lot of you were as bored reading this as I was writing it, but I > also think those of you that took the time can see this is a major positive > step forward. In the future the "corporate" workings of Angry Psychos, Inc > should be as invisible as the corporate workings of Hott Topics, but this is > new now and there will be a lot of questions, like the one that prompted this > one. > > I will use the AP,IncR: header when I post legal stuff like this so those of > you that are not interested can skip it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:43:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Onagh Levy Subject: Re: NPR A clear head...... First off, let me just say that I do enjoy your arguments, and I think your debate skills are excellent. This is one of the reasons I tend to argue mostly with Poe and/or Tori Amos fans. Were just smarter. Secondly, anything I say in this little debate should be kept in context. I try my best not to personally attack, but sometimes my words fail me and I end up snubbing someone anyway, so consider this an advance apology. - --- ndr wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Onagh Levy wrote: > > > My father served in VietNam, my husband is a Vietnam vet, >>>>>>>SNIPPED<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > LIke my 2 uncles that died in Vietnam? Or what about my uncle who served > in both Korea and Vietnam and lost his arm? Or my father who served in > Vietnam? Or my aunt who was opposed and was beaten by American cops for > protesting the war? > > Believe me, I grew up with the legacy of Vietnam, both sides. One thing I have learned is that neither side is right. > > Wow, Im am so stunned by your position, considering your history. And considering your obvious knowledge of Political events surrounding Vietnam, I am shocked that you dont realize how long we have been turning the other cheek. Check this list out, weve been patient for far too long. http://www.rense.com/general13/list.htm I think its interesting that the list does not mention to 2 Marines killed in Ruwanda (?) in 1993, their dead and beaten bodies ravaged and dragged thru the streets. And our response was to be patient. Look, the US made and investment in the Middle East. We rely on them for producing oil for our national consumption. Unlike every other government throughout history, we allowed the people of the Middle East to manage, control and use their resource as currency into the Capitalists world. Hell even as recently as 75 years ago, the average powerful nation would have swooped in, enslaved the indigenous people and raped the oil resources for all they were worth. But we are not that kind of nation, we believe in freedoms and democracy and fairness. We believe the uncivilized 3rd world mentality of the Middle East can be overcome and modernized by civilized education, and lots and lots of cash. Now, these fundamentalist mad men are jeopardizing our investment, impeding the education of the 3rd world mentality and doing all they can to stop the progression of civilization. I was going to respond point by point, but the bottom line for me is this: You and I are children of Vietnam. My mother raised me as the typical Flower Child of the late 60s, early 70s, but because she was married to an Air Force serviceman, and her father was a Sgt Major in the Canadian Army, her Uncle was a Lt Colonel in the Royal Canadian Air Force, and her brother-in-law was an enlisted man in the US Army, she taught me to support our soldiers no matter what. Even if we disagree with the actions, they deserve our respect and our love for physically protecting the intangible I dont know how you were influenced, but the lessons had to be there on some level. Being around so many service men had to have an impact, the biggest of which is that Freedom in all its forms has a price. We pay for our freedoms in one way or another. We drew the proverbial line in the sand and these crazy fundies crossed it by bringing the terrorism directly to our front door. Of course the US does not experience terrorism as so many other countries do, because the US fights very hard and sometimes ruthlessly to keep those acts far from American soil. As a child of soldiers, how can you miss the big picture here? The front line of this on going war, which seems to have become official around 1983, was pushed back all the way to the island of Manhattan. We are simply re-establishing the front line. As for the innocents, excuse me but we gave these people one month, 4 weeks, nearly 30 days to prepare. The American people have been preparing. Everyone is ready for the next attack on our soil. Why havent the people of the Middle East prepared? The simple answer is that they are so suppressed they dont know that they should be prepared. But the more obvious answer, the one no one like to talk about, is that these same people are laughing and frolicking and delighting in attack. They got our attention, they gave us a black eye. But that delight soon turns to an even greater hatred than what is already present when they watch as we, Americans, totally narcissistic and material and shallow, come together and pour more money, resources and support into helping our fellow Americans cope with the attack, that what their countrys GNP will ever amass in 10 or 20 or even 50 years time. The comparisons to Vietnam are only comparisons in spirit. The landscape, political perspective and even the nemesis has changed. And that is why I am surprised at your position. How could someone who was raised by military, lived through a very serious war/police action not understand the importance of pushing the front line back across the Atlantic, Across the Mediterranean and far far away from American soil? Believe me, I completely understand how the young students of our country are divided. They have no experience with this type of action. These kids are the grandchildren of Vietnam. It is so far away and long ago, its just a distant memory. But for us the children of Soldiers, its very different.. Anyway, thanks for the insight and the alternate point of view. I dont agree, but I do understand. Cheers! ===== ********************************************************** YLEO Dist# 405211 http://www.living-magic.com http://members.nbci.com/Onagh33 ********************************************************** Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:52:42 -0700 From: bash Subject: Re: NPR: SCORPIO APS!!!!!! EMOKidsSmell@aol.com wrote: > > Wow! This year went by fast. My birthday is November 12th. Last year POE was > in town for my birthday. Here's hopin for two in a row! Scorpios > rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Megan This Nov. 10 Scorp would love a Poe BD concert herself... Bash, (With apologies to Poe) "Hello, Scorp, I'm pleased to meet you!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:05:35 EDT From: QueenJezebel81@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR: SCORPIO APS!!!!!! My b-day is Nov. 12th too! Very cool. I'll be 20... how bout you? April ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:27:52 EDT From: Beener2100@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR: SCORPIO APS!!!!!! November 5th here... I'll be the big 2-0.... not too special.... Alezka ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:57:54 +0000 From: "Rita Bass" Subject: [none] I was just flipping channels and Passions was on...well, Sam, Grace and David are talking in the coffee shop and what is being played in the back ground? Terrible Thought...thought I'd share that finding :) Rita and well, you know _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:16:19 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR A clear head...... In a message dated 10/10/2001 3:55:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, onagh@yahoo.com writes: > They call America the Great > Satan, but truly it is these mad men that are truly > demons. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Um, the word "satan" in this context is simply a middle eastern term for > "enemy". To refer to the USA as the great satan is calling us the great > enemy. It is not the same satan we know as the "enemy of God". Satan > actually means "the accuser". Lucifer (the light bearer) got tagged as > "satan" (the accuser) when he accused God of lying to Adam and Eve and of > keeping back the best parts for Himself. Through common usage this term for > accuser came to be frequently substituted for enemy. > Satan is no more the devil's name than El (or Al) is God's name. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:24:19 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR A clear head...... In a message dated 10/10/2001 3:55:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, onagh@yahoo.com writes: > So you can read a text book and you can rent videos, > goody for you. My father served in VietNam, my > husband is a Vietnam vet, my Grandfather fought in > Korea the forgotten war and the one that was crucial > to the build up of events that helped to shape both > Government Policy but also the chain of events that > led to Vietnam. How do I know this? Because the men > that were there, the men who were actually involved > told me about it..... often at times relentlessly, but > that's how old retired soldiers are. You may not want > to discuss Vietnam, but you can not ignore what the > SOLDIERS of Vietnam are saying. And in fact I mean all > soldiers as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My twin brother was a Green Beret in Viet Nam and I myself was busted by the FBI for draft evasion as a war protester. Being in the military in Viet Nam gives one no more perspective on the political shenannigans stateside than that of any astute non-military observer...probably even less credible due to the heavy pro-military bias. I have know quite a fair number of Viet Nam vets who stand in direct opposition to the stance you advocate....including some with many purple hearts and bravery medals. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:35:31 -0400 From: Ed Hunsinger Subject: RE: NPR A Peaceful Solution. I've tried to stay out of the arguments, but oh well. Just to preface, and to get tempers rising before people even read, I'm one of those pacifists. Hehe now here's the challenge, read this without those preconceived notions. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org [mailto:owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org]On Behalf Of GabriKn@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:18 AM To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Subject: Re: NPR A Peaceful Solution. For anyone out there who thought that there wasnt going to be a war or something heres the wake up call once again, we've been at war since September 11th 2001. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? And not as a knock to the burning the afgahni flag and dropping it on em cause I can always use a good laugh, no pacifist or tree huger has been able to give me a legit "better solution" to the problem at hand other than to blast the living crap out of these scumbags. And yeah I understand the concept of civilians out there in the line of fire getting killed-Reality Check #2, 5,000 American Civilans were already killed. So let me get this clear, we kill their civilians and its wrong but they kill ours and its ok? And do you really think for a second that the Taliban would just hand over Bin Laden and the entire Al Quahad on a silver platter to us? Or if they were all put on trial in Afgahnistan that they would all be found guilty of Murder One? - ---------------------------- Here's an alternative solution. It seems that most, if not all, of the countries of the world are against this Taliban, who controls most of Afghanistan. Why not rather than confront them through violence, make agreements not to supply them with anything. Cut off all ties, all funds, all goods, etc with them. This whole situation was only possible through the funding of the Taliban by the United States. The world cuts off the Taliban. Rather than fight, we "starve." In our world today, it has become more and more about dependence on other countries. The Taliban is not self sufficient to fight a war as far as I know. (I could be wrong, correct me on this one if you can back it up) So, as they continue to crash their helicopters and use up their ammo, and run out of resources, they become less and less of a threat, until it gets to the point where they have to use all of the natural resources and time and energy to either wage war or live. In the end either way they are eliminated as a threat. simply beef up on defense in countries that there is a threat of violence from them. I am all for defense. I believe when someone threatens you, you are validated in reacting defensively. If I felt someone was threatening myself or the people I care about, I would defend myself. this would not be "cruising around looking for them so I could kick their ass" but rather avoiding contact with the person, protecting myself with allies when that person was around, and taking ophysical action necessary to avoid harm to my "side" but not in turn causing harm to the other "side" I think the special ops stuff of destroying air bases, camps, etc. proven to be military based only is aceptable in my eyes. If only property is being destroyed, we are eliminating threats without harming people. However, if in these bombings, we are targeting masses of Taliban members, I do believe that is wrong. Blowing up a camp of tents is not removing threats, but simply killing people. Intercepting gun shipments, penalizing those that sent them, removing methods of war-related production, that's the "war" that should be fought. And at times I believe that this is the war that's being fought. However at other times, and in viewing the general public, it seems like it's more of a war against the Taliban people. We shouldn't hate these people, we should dislike their actions and see fit to it that they do not perform such actions again in the future. I hope some of this makes sense. In the end, I think for me it's more about the removal of the threat of violence, and not the destruction of a race of people. Stuff can be replaced, individual human lives cannot. ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V6 #453 ***********************************