From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V6 #172 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Thursday, May 3 2001 Volume 06 : Number 172 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: ANTI-TORI [Erik Schalburg ] Psycho Rumble [lance.kinney@amd.com] Re: To Rob again ["Robert A Darke" ] PR & NPR: in relation to everything in the past few days ["Rusty Shelby"] Re: NPR C Love - I like Hole ["Robert A Darke" ] Re: angry-psychos-digest V6 #171 [Dracovixen@aol.com] RE: hey pretty video and the youth of america [Jen Ralston ] RE: NPR: I am not raising my children in this hellhole country [Katie ] npr:tapping the vein [BluesyBear@aol.com] not a virgin bashing [BluesyBear@aol.com] Re: npr:tapping the vein [Dracovixen@aol.com] Urgent Graphic request ["KyL the Paladin" ] Re: not a virgin bashing [mark alec ] Re: hey pretty video and the youth of america [Prozackitty16@aol.com] RE: hey pretty video and the youth of america ["Stephen van Vuuren" ] hey pretty, can we go somewhere else now? [Jen Ralston Subject: RE: ANTI-TORI I'm an old Tori fan, but not a Toriphile. Can't take her new stuff. - -----Original Message----- From: BluesyBear@aol.com [mailto:BluesyBear@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:57 PM To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Subject: NPR:ANTI-TORI Just out of curiosity...is there anyone on this list who is NOT a Toriphile?? I'm just curious because it seems like everyone loves her..... Willy Jilly ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:17:24 -0500 From: lance.kinney@amd.com Subject: Psycho Rumble Okay, which Psychos are going to the San Antonio show? My wife, sister, and I are to going section 303 - I can't wait to see Poe again, and of course, my 80's music idols, DM! It's been years - but there's nothing like watching Martin and Andy stand behind a bank of keyboards while Dave twirls around in circles... okay, there is, but still... Poe should really tear it up - I hope she gets a good length set... 45 minutes would do okay (around 9 songs...) Of course, an hour and half would be better. LanceKitty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:03:54 -0700 From: "Robert A Darke" Subject: Re: To Rob again I read all posts that were bashing Courtney. I just happened to pick your's to hit the 'reply' button to. So? It was directed at ALL the Courtney bashers. Not directly at you. From: Dracovixen@aol.com@smoe.org on 05/02/2001 10:32 PM EDT Sent by: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org To: angry-psychos@smoe.org cc: Subject: Re: To Rob again You started the Tori bashing off of my comment on her songs that may be related to Courtney. If you had read any of my earlier posts, you would have seen that I said nothing really bad about Courtney, I explained my reasons for why I don't think I would like her, but I do like her music. I stated my opinion gently, and then reinforced it as to why. You came right out and bashed Tori, with no justification, just "Venus absolutely sucked". You lowered yourself down to the level of other people on the list that bashed Courtney. Doesn't make you any better, it in fact makes you worst. And if you really want to get into musical talent wars, I don't think Courtney can compare to a child prodigy who played Mozart at the age of 3. So, if you want to bash Tori just because people were bashing Courtney, don't do it off of the comment of someone who did not bash Courtney. In fact, I think I was the only one who came right out to talk about Tori in relation to Courtney. So, pick a fight about something else with someone else who actually bashed Courtney (since that seems to be who you're subtlely defending here). Black Dove In a message dated 5/2/01 8:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org writes: << People have different opinions. So if I'm "tori bashing" who cares? There's also apparently a few Courtney fans here besides myself, but you don't hear (the majority of us) bitching about bashing her. Hell, I've seen a lot of mention of bands, people, that I think just plain suck. But, if there's nothing nice to say, I personally try to keep my mouth shut. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:11:02 -0400 From: "Rusty Shelby" Subject: PR & NPR: in relation to everything in the past few days ok.. here we go.. a run down of all of my comments from everything i've read: - - first & formost, i must say i LOVE you guys... and POE should be proud.. i think... to have such an open-minded fan base.. that will flat out tell her that something sucks. this is the ONLY group of fans i've ever seen that doesn't worship EVERYTHING the artist does and wants to marry her & be her girlfriend, etc. etc. i like that we can actually have intelligent conversations about the art that attracted us to this list in the first place. - - to continue the comment above... the hey pretty video... now i'm not going to come out & share my personall life with EVERYONE... but sex is sex... but there is no sex in this video... well, not actual sex.. but it is a sexy video. kristen and i had dinner a few days after the release of the video and the only thing that we really had to say bad was "what was she wearing?!?!?!" that outfit is so NOT poe and... like what everyone else is saying... it doesn't really fit the "haunted" theme.... but... whatever. all i know if that POE is on tour now and i REALLY want to go... i hope to tour continues after depeche mode... i miss the 96/97 tour when there were so many of us who went to SO many shows.. i miss the road trips to nashville & birmingham from atlanta... - - tori amos... don't get me started.. i love tori, everything she does, and the groud she walks on. (this TOTALLY does NOT go with the comments i made above)... i am a toriphile and have been for several years. she is amazing in concert (a witness to atleast 20 over the past 8 years)... and here's a public service announcement for tori fans on this list [in case you don't already know]... ARTIST: tori amos TITLE: "strange little girls" RELEASE DATE: september 21, 2001 TOUR: yes.. in august!!!!! that means more tori shows are less than 4 months away - - and last... i just updated my web page... you can access it here... it's the same as rustyisdabomb.com, but with out the annoying ad banner at the bottom. http://www.geocities.com/rustyshelby22/home.html - - concert listings - - intro ad, and contest... amanda ghost - - this week's feature... margaret cho - - photo page 5... adventures with MEL B - - journal ... and more - -rusty agentorange2@mindspring.com = rusty@poe.org | http://www.rustyisdabomb.com | 05.03.01 ***************************************************************************** *************************************** Jennifer Nettles Band: http://www.jennifernettles.com | http://www.jennifernettlesband.com ***************************************************************************** *************************************** POE: "Haunted" : : the album in stores now featuring the single, "Hey Pretty". | http://www.p-o-e.com | http://www.buffybb.net/poe | ***************************************************************************** *************************************** Amanda Ghost: "Ghost Stories" album in stores now featuring "Idol", "filthy mind", and "silver lining" http://www.amandaghost.net | http://amandaghost.cjb.net/ ***************************************************************************** *************************************** Sophie B. Hawkins: "Timbre": : the album that been on the shelf since 1999... did you ever see it? probably not... re-released on RykoDisc 04.24.01... featuring "Lose Your Way" (as heard on Dawson's Creek), "No Connection" and the current single "Walking In My Blue Jeans". http://www.thecreamwillrise.com | http://www.rykodisc.com/RykoInternal/Features/sbh/index.html ***************************************************************************** *************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:13:16 -0700 From: "Robert A Darke" Subject: Re: NPR C Love - I like Hole That goes back to my whole 'we don't know these people' thing. Just because Trent has a problem with her doesn't mean that she did anything wrong. I'm a huge fan of TR as well. But, since I don't know the details of what happened between them, I'm just not taking sides. Rob From: JustSpiffy@aol.c Ever seen the vid for NIN starf*ckers? just curious. Luff Aoibhinn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:17:30 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: angry-psychos-digest V6 #171 In a message dated 5/3/01 1:50:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org writes: << And I'm sure the person that said that From the Choirgirl Hotel wasn't that great, I agree. The only Tori Amos album I really listen to is Under the Pink and I don't think she's a "genius", but she IS talented. Give that guy a break, everyone. You're acting as if he said Jesus sucks or something. >> The only thing I had a problem with was that I was the one who mentioned Tori in relation to Courtney Love, and he decided to bash her even though I had not bashed his precious Courtney. He picked out the wrong person to comment on, is all. Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:31:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jen Ralston Subject: RE: hey pretty video and the youth of america unfortunately i don't have what i originally posted on this computer to quote for you, but my arguement wasn't that there was sex--it's that mud wrestling has nothing to do with screwing in a car. i said the video could have had something to do with what the song was about AND be very sexual (obviously, since that is what the song is about) but can you honestly tell me what the hell mud wrestling has to do with the song? with the passage in the book? with anything???? there's nothing unreasonable about expecting a video to have a concept that vaguely resembles the theme of the song it is for. the fact that the song is not about mud wrestling is what makes the mud wrestling in the video gratuitous. not that it is sexual. it's simply unneccesary. the way a dancing midget in a top hat holding a cat by it's tail would be. gratuitous--not called for by the circumstances : UNWARRANTED - --- Joel Schwartz wrote: > > No, you didnt read what I wrote. I didnt criticize > you for you can't be > smart and sexy bs. I criticize the fact that you > hold Poe to this outragous > godlike standard being angry at sex in a video when > it has been used since > the beginning of MTV. That's all > -----Original Message----- > From: Jen Ralston [mailto:jensound@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:10 PM > To: Joel Schwartz > Subject: RE: hey pretty video and the youth of > america > > > go ahead and vent. we all do. but you didn't read > what i wrote otherwise you wouldn't be venting at me > for this "you can't be sexy and be a smart girl" bs > you are accusing me of. that was what i > specifically > said was not my point. so point that thing > somewhere > else. i ain't gonna bite. > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:33:44 -0700 From: "Robert A Darke" Subject: Re: angry-psychos-digest V6 #171 ONCE AGAIN. No, maybe YOU didn't bash Courtney. My rebuttle was to those who did. I RANDOMLY replied to something that had the same subject line. Does 2+2 make 4 for you yet?! From: Dracovixen@aol.com@smoe.org on 05/03/2001 10:17 AM EDT Sent by: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org To: angry-psychos@smoe.org cc: Subject: Re: angry-psychos-digest V6 #171 In a message dated 5/3/01 1:50:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org writes: << And I'm sure the person that said that From the Choirgirl Hotel wasn't that great, I agree. The only Tori Amos album I really listen to is Under the Pink and I don't think she's a "genius", but she IS talented. Give that guy a break, everyone. You're acting as if he said Jesus sucks or something. >> The only thing I had a problem with was that I was the one who mentioned Tori in relation to Courtney Love, and he decided to bash her even though I had not bashed his precious Courtney. He picked out the wrong person to comment on, is all. Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:47:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jen Ralston Subject: NPR:ANTI-TORI well i could take her or leave her. mostly leave her, since a lot of the earlier stuff that my college roommate forced me to listen to just reminded me of kate bush and i find it hard to overcome those comparisons sometimes. i figured, i already have my kate bush collection in place. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:48:28 -0500 From: Katie Subject: RE: NPR: I am not raising my children in this hellhole country You should just get the hell out of Hell-A. You can come live in Kansas where the majority is hypocritical, money-grubbing zealots. But that's a generalization. Hey, we even have a supposed gateway to Hell. I grew up in a rural area and the only problem I've ever had is the fundamentalism and abortion signs dotting the highway. Otherwise, it's not as superficial, but it has it's moments. I think the only exposure I ever got to superficiality and a based-on-looks society is through TV. But it's not all peaches and cream. Anywhere for that matter isn't the so-called utopia everyone talks about raising their kids in. Look at the suburbs now, and the teens that get involved with drugs, that is addiction-wise (note: please don't shower me with statistics anyone. I don't if I should even mention Columbine, oops I did. Truth is: no-where is perfect, not even in another country. You'll just have to raise your kids to be open-minded, have wisdom, perspective, and be able to problem solve. One really great thing (and possibly bad thing) about the internet: you can't see a person's face, so looks aren't important, on the other hand, you can't see the person's face. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:38:46 -0700 From: "Robert A Darke" Subject: Re: hey pretty video recap As for "NAVA," perhaps it's because we can all relate to it... 8-) And the "Today" comments, eeesh! I thought it was a great song too! Rob DISCLAIMER; I'm not inferring that LiveThruThisVow said "Today" was bad. Because they didn't. It's just that simple. Am I going to have to do this on every reply? From: LiveThruThisVow@aol.com@smoe.org on 05/02/2001 07:24 PM EDT Sent by: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org To: angry-psychos@smoe.org cc: Subject: Re: hey pretty video recap In a message dated 5/1/01 9:57:22 PM Central Daylight Time, WardWorthy1@aol.com writes: > I like the video, I think its OK to feel, be, want to be, act sexy or > whatever and however the individual defines that for themself, I cant judge > that for anyone, cause I'm WAY to wierd to pass judgement... I've always > thought Poe's music was kind of sexy in itself any way... i.e. Junkie for > you > Love, Finger tips, Hey Pretty, etc. > Exactly, I'm surprised no one was offended with "Not A Virgin" when Haunted came out. Yeesh. ~*~ Love, love, is a verb, love is a doing word~ Massive Attack ~*~ Adventure, excitement, the Jedi craves not these things~ Silent Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:22:47 EDT From: BluesyBear@aol.com Subject: npr:tapping the vein that's funny because I didn't know anyone knew who they were.... They played at this metalfest in new jersey I went to...and a majority of the bands that play those "fests" suck..in fact most of them have to pay to play. I haven't heard them but my friend mentioned them last night and said the singer wears a bra on stage lol.... The only good bands there were Opeth and Pain... Jill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:25:38 EDT From: BluesyBear@aol.com Subject: not a virgin bashing Are you really on drugs? I'm sorry but I don't understand how you can say that-the worst melody every written? I'm not about to get into a fight but if I saw you I just might punch you out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:30:49 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: npr:tapping the vein I just wanted to clarify to everyone on th elist that there are two bands called "Tapping The Vein". Jill is talking about the one I am asking about, a female fronted band, whereas the other one is male-fronted, and I hear they suck. :) In case I didn't post the link before, you can check them out at www.mp3.com/tappingthevein. Black Dove In a message dated 5/3/01 12:22:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BluesyBear writes: << that's funny because I didn't know anyone knew who they were.... They played at this metalfest in new jersey I went to...and a majority of the bands that play those "fests" suck..in fact most of them have to pay to play. I haven't heard them but my friend mentioned them last night and said the singer wears a bra on stage lol.... The only good bands there were Opeth and Pain... Jill >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:00:24 -0400 From: "KyL the Paladin" Subject: Urgent Graphic request Hello out there in Psycho land... I urgently need a vector graphic of the POE ball. A high res raster (bitmap, jpeg, etc) could also work. This is for a special POE project that is being produced, so your help would be appreciated. Also... FYI, the Hey Pretty Video is the featured video at 99X.com right now. Pax, KyL 99X Atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:56:40 -0700 (PDT) From: mark alec Subject: Re: not a virgin bashing maybe it's just me... but it seems alot of people don't realize that taxine is an old school ap known for extremely sarcastic comments.. but there's never been a question of his ap/poe loyalty. guess it's because he hasn't been posting lately (at least that i've noticed).. and if he was actually being serious (which i doubt by the tone of that entire email).. then that would just mean i was wrong. but i'm fairly confident on this one... k. that's all i wanted to comment on. later all. ===== mark alec http://www.worldofalec.org/ alec@poe.org the no-quote signature.. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:14:12 EDT From: Prozackitty16@aol.com Subject: Re: hey pretty video and the youth of america OK OK OK! I'll settle this all........ The mud wrestling is an OBVIOULSLy UN-pretty thing. Its mud for christ sakes. BUT....to have it in the music video...it would create an obvious contrast to think about(just like she succeeded in doing w/ us already!!) See what I mean!?!? Its NOT what you would expect...and THATS why its there! *stands proudly w/ hands on hips* ~Gypsy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:30:54 -0400 From: "Stephen van Vuuren" Subject: RE: hey pretty video and the youth of america >but my arguement >wasn't that there was sex--it's that mud wrestling has >nothing to do with screwing in a car. i said the >video could have had something to do with what the >song was about AND be very sexual (obviously, since >that is what the song is about) but can you honestly >tell me what the hell mud wrestling has to do with the >song? with the passage in the book? with anything???? Well stated Jen - that's the critical issue here. I mean "Crash", ""Eyes Wide Shut", "Fight Club", "A Clockwork Orange" and "Blue Velvet" are three of my favorite movies, heavy on sex and/or violence, but sex/or violence are central themes to their stories. Mud-wrestling/Haunted/HOL - I don't see the connection either. >there's nothing unreasonable about >expecting a video to have a concept that vaguely >resembles the theme of the song it is for. the fact >that the song is not about mud wrestling is what makes >the mud wrestling in the video gratuitous. not that >it is sexual. it's simply unneccesary. the way a >dancing midget in a top hat holding a cat by it's tail >would be. Yeah - it does not add anything other than T&A. I certainly have not heard anyone comment on how they understand Haunted and/or HOL any better after seeing this video. stephen www.xiveren.com "It can only be attributable to human error" - -HAL - -----Original Message----- From: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org [mailto:owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Jen Ralston Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:32 AM To: Joel Schwartz; angry-psychos@smoe.org Subject: RE: hey pretty video and the youth of america unfortunately i don't have what i originally posted on this computer to quote for you, but my arguement wasn't that there was sex--it's that mud wrestling has nothing to do with screwing in a car. i said the video could have had something to do with what the song was about AND be very sexual (obviously, since that is what the song is about) but can you honestly tell me what the hell mud wrestling has to do with the song? with the passage in the book? with anything???? there's nothing unreasonable about expecting a video to have a concept that vaguely resembles the theme of the song it is for. the fact that the song is not about mud wrestling is what makes the mud wrestling in the video gratuitous. not that it is sexual. it's simply unneccesary. the way a dancing midget in a top hat holding a cat by it's tail would be. gratuitous--not called for by the circumstances : UNWARRANTED - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:36:57 -0400 From: "Stephen van Vuuren" Subject: RE: hey pretty video and the youth of america > The mud wrestling is an OBVIOULSLy UN-pretty thing. Its mud for christ >sakes. BUT....to have it in the music video...it would create an obvious >contrast to think about(just like she succeeded in doing w/ us already!!) See >what I mean!?!? Its NOT what you would expect...and THATS why its there! This strikes me as a bit of stretch and after the fact - "See this is what we really meant". The problem with this argument IMO is that neither than car, Poe, Mark or anyone/thing in the video is really "un-Pretty". The cinematography, lighting and production design is high-gloss, not grunge. Even the mud is not depicted as ugly. It's mud-wrestling and bikini's, staple fare at many a T&A establishment - not mud in the slums. So I don't buy this. If you really wanted an un-Pretty, Hey Pretty, this video is not it. stephen www.xiveren.com "It can only be attributable to human error" - -HAL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:46:57 EDT From: JustSpiffy@aol.com Subject: NPR - Stella on MTV Hey Stella's on the hot zone right now being interviewed.... She looks like she's very confused as to why she's on during "hip hop week." The Dj asked her what she had been listening to recently and gave her a blank look when she said NIN's the Fragile. Luff Aoibhinn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:59:18 EDT From: Voodoo1237@aol.com Subject: my beef with p-o-e.com Why Poe's website up to date??Her official site is amazing and right when the big makeover happened the news was fresh and it seemed like whenever i logged on to it something new had been added. Now it has been a long time with little change and the news page is blank. What about the d. mode tour?? the tour section is still with the borders tour which is over a year old.The polish chick site is awesome and the owner does an a amazing job over there (you rock!). Well I just thought i would let that beef out and clear the air. All Dallas AP's , we need to gear up for Poe coming in July what do you all want to do??? I am open to a little party or something where we can all get piss drunk and have a good time and meet eachother. Anyways I was wondering if anyone else feels the way i do so TTFN Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 12:34:39 -0700 From: "Tim Dube" Subject: NPR: More Tori info Cleopatra records has a Tori Amos tribute cd coming out on 6/26/01 dubious _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jen Ralston Subject: hey pretty, can we go somewhere else now? first, someone who hadn't seen the video asked for a recap because she had read that some people thought it was degrading to women. i was not one of those people who had an intitial reaction to the video, by the way, i wasn't around when the link was first posted and didn't get around to looking at it until about a day before that someone asked what it was about. and i didn't have a strong enough response to it to merit just up and announcing after seeing it what i thought of it. like anything else i don't care to see, i simply won't look at it again. i was just answering the question "why are people saying it's degrading to women". my answer--because poe is wrestling some random model in the mud, which is--i believe my phrase was--"mildly offensive" and on top of that, given that the mud wrestling has nothing to do with the song, it was gratuitous. obviously my post was over-interpreted. do i find poe mud wrestling in a bikini offensive personally? no. pointless, yes. but i'm not a quaker, either. before i saw the video though, i had read a few responses from other ap's about it being offensive so when i finally saw it for myself, i deduced that the "naughty bits" were the mud wrestling shots as opposed to say, the shots of mark's mouth lip synching. as for the "gratuitous" thing, that there word must have a different meaning for other people but when i looked it up in the dictionary, it simply applied to anything that was unwarranted. what makes the mud wrestling un-warranted? that it's "degrading" to women? nope. what would make it warranted? if the song said anything about say, rolling around in the mud or getting the car dirty or what ever other clever euphemism that could make some sort of a literal connection between the song and the video. otherwise, it's just random muddy bikini action. whatever. then there was a slew of posts about whether or not there was anything "wrong" with the video--is it ok for poe to wear a bikini? if the video production was completed and she stuck around long enough to be in most every shot of it, does she like the video? was it her idea? an idea she didn't have a choice in objecting to? et. al. all i had to say about any of that was just because she was in the video doesn't neccessarily mean that it was her idea. and just because it was released doesn't mean it's our responsibility as her fans to overwhelmingly adore it. then i started private emails along the lines of "well, being a (straight) guy, i have no objection to the way she looks!" and "just because she's sexy doesn't mean that she's not respectable". and a few who suggested that the video made perfect sex BECAUSE the song was sexy and if i knew what mark was saying i would understand. my response was the following: "...reading the book won't help explain what the mud wrestlers in front of the parked car are doing in a video/v.o. about a seduction taking place in a MOVING car with nary a splat of MUD in the description...it could have easily been tantalizing and "driven" by sexual overtones and still have something to do with the song. "the longest unzipping of my life" hello?!? are you out there? that's sexy and there's no mud required. that's all i'm saying..." the next round of responses came along the slant that "hey, if new people see the video, they become fans" to which i could only say, "if this was the first thing i saw by poe, i wouldn't buy the album." if i heard the song on the radio, i would be mildly intrigued. more so if i had read the book without knowing anything about poe and then heard the drive-by-mix. still and all after all that, i would just be baffled by the video and assume that it was some dj who was a fan of the book that put this thing together. i get no sense of muddy bikini chick #1 as an artist or a personality. she comes off to me as a back-up singer. i said that i, as a chick who likes chick musicians, would be turned off by this "introduction" to the album. it looks like everything else to me that i don't bother with on mtv anymore. i guess i must be weird, but if what i was looking for is someone with the talent and personality of poe and i saw this video, this "how can you criticize it/it's just like everything else you see on mtv" video, i wouldn't think that i found what i was looking for at all. so now, i'm getting personality assessments based on my inability to appreciate the random muddy bikini action. i've been accused of being uptight about sex, about being unrealistic about the human sex drive as it figures into the complete make-up of a person, of many other bizarre stretches of that ilk. and still i ask, what the hell does the mud wrestling have to do with the f***ing song?!? anybody??? i'll admit i haven't gotten through the appendices yet, but i got sidetracked about 80% through the body of the book and i've read that section that mark is quoting and many more events following it and i just don't see how reading the book is supposed to enhance my understanding of the video. and i promise you if the video was about poe driving a friggin car in l.a. being a sexual predator of any variety and to any degree (no matter how graphic), i would not be objecting to it. because that's what the song is about. and that is my ever f***ing point. i've phrased this out as completely and clearly as i can. these are all points i have made at least once before though, so anyone else who wants to tell me anything more about it i'll read and consider anything you have to say but good lord i am so tired of people writing my account and telling me i have a stick up my bum about sex because i think the video is stupid. we need a few more critical readers and several less knee-jerkers around here. i'm done talking about the stupid video now. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:31:49 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: angry-psychos-digest V6 #171 In a message dated 5/3/2001 10:44:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dracovixen@aol.com writes: > The only thing I had a problem with was that I was the one who mentioned > Tori > in relation to Courtney Love, and he decided to bash her even though I had > not bashed his precious Courtney. He picked out the wrong person to comment > on, is all. > Black Dove > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Funny thing is, I don't think he is even protecting Courtney Love. I suspect he just likes taking whacks at Tori:-) Heh, heh...flame on, warriors. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:45:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Cyberfan Corporation Subject: Recently Added POE.ORG email addresses... Greetings, Though long over due... done... If you recently registered for a POE.ORG email address... They have been added to the system and should be working just fine... Here is a list of the email addresses that were added... You can find yours and test it out... Or somebody can test it out for you... ****************************************** loki@poe.org marsha@poe.org nocturne@poe.org Dave21@poe.org jobe@poe.org jez@poe.org raven@poe.org dean@poe.org banky@poe.org ray@poe.org proudwolf@poe.org spidermonkey@poe.org Ennis@poe.org ShArKeY*cita@poe.org anfrey@poe.org POEzer@poe.org padrefear@poe.org commissioner_jobe@poe.org PsYcHoGrL@poe.org pelafina@poe.org LivTheMdns@poe.org wcap@poe.org BlueH2O@poe.org blueh2o@poe.org jobarr@poe.org decayingmadness@poe.org jovodo@poe.org delerium@poe.org delial@poe.org mad_cao@poe.org nolechick@poe.org aoibhinn@poe.org Sandra-D@poe.org tomtobin@poe.org monkeygrrl@poe.org WillWork4daFunk@poe.org taintedone@poe.org jefinner@poe.org ben@poe.org notajunkie@poe.org tonycu@poe.org gypsy_moon18@poe.org indigofaerie@poe.org miharu@poe.org starboy@poe.org dandy52@poe.org ingerkristine_@poe.org SteVisOK@poe.org SteVe@poe.org steffy@poe.org ivy@poe.org Talk2aPsycho@poe.org *************************************************** Thanks All - Remember... www.angry-psychos.com *************************************************** JK/// Jarrod Kniff President - Cyberfan Corporation jarrod@cyberfan.com *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:34:49 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: PR & NPR: in relation to everything in the past few days In a message dated 5/3/2001 10:45:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, agentorange2@mindspring.com writes: > - tori amos... don't get me started.. i love tori, everything she does, and > the groud she walks on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahem...pardon me, but I believe Ms Amos walks ABOVE the ground, not ON it. Hehehehe...just adding a little fuel to the fire:-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:36:58 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Fwd: hey pretty video and the youth of america In a message dated 5/3/2001 11:16:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jensound@yahoo.com writes: > but my arguement > wasn't that there was sex--it's that mud wrestling has > nothing to do with screwing in a car. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a damned good metaphor for screwing in a car if you ask me. Return-Path: Received: from rly-yc01.mx.aol.com (rly-yc01.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.33]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.36) with ESMTP; Thu, 03 May 2001 11:16:41 2000 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [209.58.179.86]) by rly-yc01.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.36) with ESMTP; Thu, 03 May 2001 11:16:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id KAA29085; Thu, 3 May 2001 10:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Thu, 3 May 2001 10:32:08 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id KAA29065 for angry-psychos-outgoing; Thu, 3 May 2001 10:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web13901.mail.yahoo.com (web13901.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.27]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-jane) with SMTP id KAA29057 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 10:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20010503143150.77517.qmail@web13901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.205.154.91] by web13901.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 03 May 2001 07:31:50 PDT Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:31:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jen Ralston Reply-To: jensound@home.com Subject: RE: hey pretty video and the youth of america To: Joel Schwartz , angry-psychos@smoe.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. Precedence: bulk X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) unfortunately i don't have what i originally posted on this computer to quote for you, but my arguement wasn't that there was sex--it's that mud wrestling has nothing to do with screwing in a car. i said the video could have had something to do with what the song was about AND be very sexual (obviously, since that is what the song is about) but can you honestly tell me what the hell mud wrestling has to do with the song? with the passage in the book? with anything???? there's nothing unreasonable about expecting a video to have a concept that vaguely resembles the theme of the song it is for. the fact that the song is not about mud wrestling is what makes the mud wrestling in the video gratuitous. not that it is sexual. it's simply unneccesary. the way a dancing midget in a top hat holding a cat by it's tail would be. gratuitous--not called for by the circumstances : UNWARRANTED - --- Joel Schwartz wrote: > > No, you didnt read what I wrote. I didnt criticize > you for you can't be > smart and sexy bs. I criticize the fact that you > hold Poe to this outragous > godlike standard being angry at sex in a video when > it has been used since > the beginning of MTV. That's all > -----Original Message----- > From: Jen Ralston [mailto:jensound@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:10 PM > To: Joel Schwartz > Subject: RE: hey pretty video and the youth of > america > > > go ahead and vent. we all do. but you didn't read > what i wrote otherwise you wouldn't be venting at me > for this "you can't be sexy and be a smart girl" bs > you are accusing me of. that was what i > specifically > said was not my point. so point that thing > somewhere > else. i ain't gonna bite. > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:39:23 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: hey pretty video and the youth of america In a message dated 5/3/2001 11:16:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jensound@yahoo.com writes: > ) but can you honestly > tell me what the hell mud wrestling has to do with the > song? with the passage in the book? with > anything???? there's nothing unreasonable about > expecting a video to have a concept that vaguely > resembles the theme of the song it is for. the fact > that the song is not about mud wrestling is what makes > the mud wrestling in the video gratuitous. not that > it is sexual. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, in this same vein; what the hell do broken bridges and being a dolphin have to do with relationships? The mud-wrestling is a metaphor for the sleazy sex. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:48:07 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: hey pretty video and the youth of america In a message dated 5/3/2001 2:19:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stephen@xiveren.com writes: > Yeah - it does not add anything other than T&A. I certainly have not heard > anyone comment on how they understand Haunted and/or HOL any better after > seeing this video. > It is more about that one song and the part of HOL detailing the wild Mulholland ride than it is about trying to convey the whole message of Haunted or HOL. To follow your line of reasoning, what the hell does the song itself have to do with Poe's father...how about Not A Virgin? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:54:40 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: hey pretty, can we go somewhere else now? In a message dated 5/3/2001 3:57:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jensound@yahoo.com writes: > my answer--because poe is wrestling some > random model in the mud, which is--i believe my phrase > was--"mildly offensive" and on top of that, given that > the mud wrestling has nothing to do with the song, it > was gratuitous. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You still don't think it is an apt metaphor for some girl, who is gold-digging a rich German guy and driving HIS Bimmer, to take a tattoo apprentice she barely knows out to Mulholland Drive and f**k the snot out of him for purely lustful reasons? Funny that you find mud-wrestling mildly offensive and gratuitous but not the actual act depicted in HOL. ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V6 #172 ***********************************