From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V6 #129 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Saturday, April 7 2001 Volume 06 : Number 129 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: NPR Re: just a little beauty rant (the 20's, etc) [KrodKnid@aol.com] Re: NPR Re: just a little beauty rant (the 20's, etc) [KrodKnid@aol.com] poe interview in 30min ["Monica Tipton" ] NPR: Beauty Rants [Michaela Drapes ] POE Interview on KDGE [Cyberfan Corporation ] KDGE POE weekend [Robert Cobb ] TRL...get over yourself ["A. Stephen Apsley" ] Re: KDGE POE weekend [Cyberfan Corporation ] Re: No TRL Please!!!!!! [GloryBox84@aol.com] NPR [XxObLiViOuZxX@aol.com] npr ["Monica Tipton" ] Re: NPR Re: just a little beauty rant (the 20's, etc) [~~Amanda~~ Not always. I've done a bit of art history for that time period. True, a lot > of pictures showed concepts of what beauty was, but not an ideal. Women were > *sigh* Again we can go all the way back to Psappha, who was a typically smallish mid-eastern beauty (some reports even have her with hair so black it shone with violet hues) who suffered, just like so many modern women do, from not conforming to the Hellenistic ideal of her day, which had beauty in women amounting to tall, fair haired, and blue-eyed. One of the things that marks her as the first "modern" woman of literature is that she often embraced themes in her work dealing with this misery. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:43:00 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR Re: just a little beauty rant (the 20's, etc) In a message dated 4/6/2001 3:41:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ladyrose@where.org writes: > There were "erotic" pictures of naked women painted.....but most of the > women looked almost entirely different from each other. Their only likeness > to each other was natural, healthy curves. Some were overtly obese, some > were just slightly plump. There was no "ideal." Just a concept. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > My favorite of these are the Boucher "Venus" paintings. Very healthy and ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:17:17 -0500 From: "Monica Tipton" Subject: poe interview in 30min Hey Pal's Just want to let you know that Poe and her Bro are doing an interview on Diva Radio at 5:45 CST. To listen to it on line please go to kdge.com then to diva radio, then to listen live- like you guys couldn't figure it out. Love Butterflee21 5
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------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:47:09 -0500 From: Michaela Drapes Subject: NPR: Beauty Rants Amanda: Please don't listen to Naomi Wolf and her poorly-researched and inflammatory writing. She was criticized when the book came out for the very reasons people are bringing up now. "The Beauty Industry" existed long before the 40's and 50's. This is one my little pet projects -- I'm obsessed with fashion and beauty products, and have done a lot of research into the history of both. Here's a little tidbit. In the 1880's, Lillie Langtry was the pinnacle of beauty in the Edwardian world. She was an English actress/society woman born in Breton who was widely belived to be the lover of King Edward VII. But somewhere along the way, she found time to shill for Pear's Complexion Soap -- as well as a lot of other beauty products. Sounds like a bunch of actresses today, huh? Now, I admire Naomi Wolf for having the courage to say some of the stuff that she does, but she really needs to do better research. And yes, the media *does* objectify beautiful people -- of both genders; and yes, society does think an older man is attractive, but an older woman is not; and no, you shouldn't look to whatever beauty ideal is the status quo and judge yourself against that ideal. But our culture is not the first to idealize beauty in some way or another -- tastes change, but the general ideal has been the same for millienia. The evidence of this is quite clear in art dating back to some of the earliest 'civilized' cultures in the Middle East and Northern Africa; as well as in Greece and Italy. Joel: Looking at your address, I see you're at UCLA, and live the most superficial town in world, right? (: I think you had some valid points, but I wouldn't exactly agree with your choices of classic Hollywood actresses that were 'thin and beautiful' -- in fact, you chose 3 (Marilyn Monroe, Mae West, and Rita Hayworth) who were not only *not* thin and beautiful in the traditional way -- they also had to battle against that mark against them to succeed in the glamour industry. Marilyn was addicted to diet pills, and her weight fluctuated majorly throughout her entire career. I argue that she was definately not 'thin' in the way actresses are thin now. And Mae West -- she was one of the largest actresses in Hollywood, and as a result played the vamp and sexual outlaw almost directly as a result of her body type. The same for Rita Hayworth. Now, better examples might be someone like Audrey Hepburn or Grace Kelly or Ingrid Bergman or Myrna Loy or Vivien Leigh. (I was thinking of Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Katherine Hepburn, Marlene Dietrich, Greta Garbo, Rosalind Russell too -- but all these women were *not* traditionally beautiful, but were sucessful in Hollywood.) Ok, that's enough of my opinon. (: - -mrd ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 00:19:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Cyberfan Corporation Subject: POE Interview on KDGE Too much ass kissing by this DJ... damn... Best interview I ever heard with poe was on January 12, 1996 in Phoenix... JK/// ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:10:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Cobb Subject: KDGE POE weekend Tuned in on RealAudio in the middle, but this is what I got out of it. They played a kick ass version of Angry Johnny and Hey Pretty (Drive By). Hey Pretty (Drive By) will be on the new version of Haunted coming out in a week, always available through Napster and PolishChick and soon on Poe's site. She WILL be in Dallas for Edgefest! Too late for me to reschedule my leave, though. :( Hope she comes through Boise on tour. Adahlfin Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:18:43 -0700 From: "A. Stephen Apsley" Subject: TRL...get over yourself why should we care who listens to Poe? why are the APs around? we're here to help Poe out and, well, if we are picky about who we "let" listen to her music, then we're hindering the cause more than helping it. please make this TRL thing work. - -andrew _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 00:42:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Cyberfan Corporation Subject: Re: KDGE POE weekend The DJ continued to say in another break that POE would not be performing... just her and her brother are going to be ther to "hang out." *************************************************** JK/// Jarrod Kniff President - Cyberfan Corporation jarrod@cyberfan.com ************* Comprehending Engineers ************* To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. *************************************************** ~*~ I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die.... So let me live my life the way I want." ~Hendrix On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Robert Cobb wrote: > > Tuned in on RealAudio in the middle, but this is what > I got out of it. They played a kick ass version of > Angry Johnny and Hey Pretty (Drive By). Hey Pretty > (Drive By) will be on the new version of Haunted > coming out in a week, always available through Napster > and PolishChick and soon on Poe's site. She WILL be > in Dallas for Edgefest! Too late for me to reschedule > my leave, though. :( Hope she comes through Boise on > tour. > > Adahlfin > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:35:25 EDT From: GloryBox84@aol.com Subject: Re: No TRL Please!!!!!! Uhh... last time I expressed these feelings I was grilled with mean comments and no one seemed to agree with me. - - --Kim > > >Poe on TRL? For the love of god, please don't do it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:43:46 EDT From: XxObLiViOuZxX@aol.com Subject: NPR Just figured I would tell anyone......I didn't make the cheerleading squad! Not that anyone cares....I just wanted to tell some people so I could get it out of my head already.......Oh well it sucks.......all the "preps" made it but I am happy for them because they get to do something that they enjoy doing.......maybe I can try out again next year! And not make it again so I can tell you all that I didn't make it! :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:19:56 -0500 From: "Monica Tipton" Subject: npr Hey guys!! I have been reading hol and I needed to come back to reality for a few minutes. That book is pretty intense. This is the first time since I have joined the list that my mail box has been empty. Do you guys know something I don't???
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------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:07:22 -0400 From: ~~Amanda~~ Subject: Re: NPR Re: just a little beauty rant (the 20's, etc) You guys are missing the point. Yes, there have always been independant women. But most of these women, unless born into their power, were considered freakish....even by other women. This whole beauty "ideal" began when women began becoming independant as a WHOLE. In the ancient, ancient days, when women were considered equal with men, they were all pagans. Female goddesses ruled alongside their male gods. I studied this in mythology. Then societies stopped becoming so nomadic, men started taking charge, and formed themselves a society run by a male god (or, in some cases, lots of male gods.) We read a story from that time period -- when men were taking control -- that had the female goddesses turn "evil" and the men had to kill them in horrible ways. It was a way of taking control away from the women, to take away the goddesses they identify with. The most absolutely confident women I know (read: AS A WHOLE, AS A GROUP) are Wiccan. Most identify with a female Goddess in any of her forms (maiden, mother or crone), most look to themselves for their confidence, for their beauty, not to anyone or anything else in the world. ~~Amanda~~ ----- Original Message ----- From: KrodKnid@aol.com To: ladyrose@where.org ; cthulhu9@ucla.edu ; angry-psychos@smoe.org ; lynx0333@hotmail.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 5:29 PM Subject: Re: NPR Re: just a little beauty rant (the 20's, etc) In a message dated 4/6/2001 3:41:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ladyrose@where.org writes: The 20's were when women started becoming independant. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, if you want to stretch it a bit...as far as recorded history goes, women started getting independent with Psappha (Sappho) about 600 B.C. She was the first "great woman poet", probably the founder of women's literature, and also one of the greatest poets of any gender in history...she was the first to embrace "modern", rather than religious, themes...she was also a strongly "independent woman". You might also consider the great Celtic and Teutonic tribes that once wandered freely around Europe...the women even went into battle alongside their men and fought like tigresses...and yet they (both genders) embraced a strictly monogamous marital state. And then there were the Amazons, who routinely cut off one breast to keep it out of the way of the bowstring when they were shooting their notoriously deadly arrows in battle...and what about other great women like Thais, Cleopatra, Nephertiti, et al? How about Chopin's lover, George Sand (a pseudonym of course, "he" was a "she")...so many others. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 02:36:36 -0000 From: "Courtney Paige" Subject: NPR: RE: just a little beauty rant >From: "Joel Schwartz" Let's not forget >all the movie stars of the forties and fifties who were thin and beautiful >even by today's standards such as Maralyn, Mae West, Rita Hayworth. Hell, >go >back to the Renasance. This is true in that they were beautiful, however, Marilyn wore a size 12, which is considered a plus-size now and both of the other women you mentioned were also very healthy. Unlike the size 0 waifs to which we are now supposed to aspire. My biggest problem is not that there is a "beauty ideal", (because, as you said, these have been present all through history) it's that today's standards are for the most part unhealthy. When your average women wears a size 12, and all she sees in the media is a size 6 (which is the industry standard for print models) it causes a lot of problems. ~Court _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 02:42:23 -0000 From: "Courtney Paige" Subject: Re: NPR just a little beauty rant (the 20's, etc) In addition... Men paint and film images of women because it gives them power over them, and then they can own them. An introductury level Art History class, or any critical theory class will clue you in to this. ~Court >It has > > Why would men paint or film quintessential > > images of women? Because they hate them and want them to be brought >down? > > Yeah right. > >Men paint and film women to get off on it. Why? Because they're men. But if >all they wanted was to paint and film, they'd keep it private. They want to >promote their own idea of beauty, so they shove it in everyone's face like >gospel. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 00:14:17 EDT From: LivTheMdns@aol.com Subject: T-Shirt Designs I just finished a page showing some of the designs for the screen printed shirts. Julie's design is up there, as well as a bunch of my own. If you want to see them, go to http://www.polishchick.com/munecas/screenshirt/index.html and have a look. E-mail me and let me know which ones you like. - -Mike ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V6 #129 ***********************************