From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V5 #122 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Monday, May 22 2000 Volume 05 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: MP3s [Ed Hunsinger ] Re: NPR - Napster and Metallica [Matt Larsen ] RE: NPR: .mp3 Format Battle Of The AP Bands (Napster Thread) [Ed Hunsing] More on Napster (NPR) [Linus Gelber ] RE: More on Napster (NPR) ["Kelly Lesperance" ] (N) a (P) ste (R) [AT ] Re: More on Napster (NPR) [KrodKnid@aol.com] RE: More on Napster (NPR) [Ed Hunsinger ] O.Z. Willis [Shawn Kuck ] RE: NPR - Napster and Metallica [Ed Hunsinger ] oops [Shawn Kuck ] Re: O.Z. Willis ["Shawn Laura Bross" ] Re: (N) a (P) ste (R) ["Shawn Laura Bross" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:42:32 -0400 From: Ed Hunsinger Subject: RE: MP3s Ok, here's the deal.. I will not, have not, and currently don't have any songs easily available on my Poe mp3 website. what I have is mainly taken from the AP Tape Trees in an attempt to get some of the songs out to people without having to have people ship tapes all around. I urge that you guys don't distribute high-quality copies of Poe's songs that are easily attainable. It could ruin the projects like I do, getting rare and live Poe available on mp3. I've asked Poe, and she said it was alright to distribute live files but I;m sure she, and her record label, would not be to keen on having other commercially available songs. Anyways, my site is still down on account of me moving and not having enough time to get my computer completely set back up. I'll let you guys know when I'm back up. Alright, I'm off to finish my email. Take it easy you crazy APs!! hehe pretty coherent for a durnk guy, eh? :) - -Ed >===== Original Message From KrodKnid@aol.com ===== >Okay, since there has been all this talk of MP3s and Napster and people are >pissed and we are gonna have a fight anyway...heh, heh...I just made a nice >128kbps MP3 of Poe's new "My Lips Are Sealed" from the forthcoming cd...I >made it by recording it into a wav from the Quicktime video and then encoding >the wav into mp3...so it could be better; but it is pretty damned good >anyway. Any takers? I believe the APs are an okay place to hand this thing >out, since probably every single one of us will buy the cd the day it hits >the stores. It would be better if Ed or someone would put this online at >their Poe site so I wouldn't have to upload the attachment everytime someone >wants it...plus not everybody has an e-mail server that allows for large file >downloads. - -Ed ed@poe.org http://divinity.relic.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 02:15:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Matt Larsen Subject: Re: NPR - Napster and Metallica You are the man. This sounds like fun! If nothing else, we can at least get into each other's music a little bit. Thanks for taking the time, spook. ML On Sat, 20 May 2000, sp00k@poe.org wrote: > I listened to the entire "Fall" cut that you have uP for a vote. It wasn't > real clear about how to vote, it is the "Put This On TV" button for those of > you who visit. > > I used that handy little popup menu selection to "Save Target To I-Drive" so > all four of your songs are now available @ > > http://www.i-drive.com/apbands > > > sp00k etc ... > > A place that must have much much more .mp3 material than Napster ever > will... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Matt Larsen > To: sp00k@poe.org > Cc: ; > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 2:09 PM > Subject: Re: NPR - Napster and Metallica > > > > > > Well hell - count me in on the battle of the bands stuff. Check out my > > band's web site and get the mp3s if you feel like it: > > > > http://www.superuserband.com/ > > > > We are also trying to get enough votes to get on FarmClub, but it appears > > to be futile. > > > > Our stuff is all copyrighted, so we're not too worried about people > > downloading it. Since we are out in the middle of nowhere, our chances > > of getting a big record contract are infinitessimally small, so we welcome > > to ability to distribute our music to a large audience at no cost. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Matt Larsen > > mlarsen@scottsbluff.net > > > > PS - I'm reading House of Leaves, and got stuck about halfway through. > > Guess I need to toughen up and force my way through. Book is definitely > > different! > > > > On Sat, 20 May 2000, sp00k@poe.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: ; > > > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 12:34 PM > > > Subject: Re: NPR - Napster and Metallica > > > > > > > > > > I find your argument not only interesting but awsome actually. Too > often > > > > peopel come into situations tempers flaring with a "fuck you I'm > right" > > > > mentallity. I Like the way you debate however, and Agree that no > solution > > > > seems to be in sight.. nore can I falthom one. The demons are > created. > > > No > > > > way to throw them back in the box so to speak. > > > > > > > > I'll get an Mp3 of one of my bands' songs and send it ya. > > > > No i don't use this mail thingy for promotion if I can help it. after > all > > > > we're here to talk about Poe not me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind, the AP's are ABOUT Poe, AP's are like the 12th player > on > > > the football team, but perhaps more, because so much of what is Poe, is > a > > > result of the internet, well no, on the other hand obviously there is > much > > > more to Poe than this, but here, in cyber, the sharing of the tangents > that > > > are out of sight of our shared Poe experience.... Hell we should have > had a > > > battle of the AP bands via .mp3 format LONG ago......... who knows > maybe > > > we could find a touring mate / opening act for Poe.......... > > > > > > So yes this list is about Poe, but it is also about people who don't > > > have qualms about belonging to a club called the Angry-Psychos......I am > > > sure the majority of members would love to be introduced to the artistic > > > stylings of other members, in whatever form they may be, just put an NPR > on > > > it, even tho it is AP and therefore Poe related. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speakin of which... anyone got any NEW news on poe/the cd/ anything. > > > > anyone know if she's going to promote the new album via Love Line?? > > > > > > > > > > As some mention has been made of the content of "House Of Leaves", I > > > will say that I stumbled upon a Poe quote, our Poe, not the dead > guy(still a > > > g00d read :> ) ....,and while on IRC.us.dal.net #poe having a > discussion > > > about the book we got into were the AP's mentioned in the book. I think > > > maybe cuz I am spook and that is the way eYe think, but wont be sure > till I > > > finish what is a very good read. Get the Book. > > > > > > Thanks for your kind words. > > > > > > > > > > > > sp00k etc ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 04:10:49 -0400 From: Ed Hunsinger Subject: RE: NPR: .mp3 Format Battle Of The AP Bands (Napster Thread) I don't know if I count as a band,m but I have tossed together a few tracks. If anyone wants to hear them, or if sp00k want's to toss them with the other stuff, they can be found at: http://www.mp3.com/divinity Enjoy!! - -Ed ed@poe.org http://divinity.relic.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:45:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Linus Gelber Subject: More on Napster (NPR) Had to chime in here, since this has been such a central theme of my life lately. My indie label, Home Office Records, is about to become a Napster affiliate when they launch their new "we have friends too" program next week, and since I've started talking about this a lot I've found people confused, misinformed, and raging. I do have to say this: I have yet to find EVEN ONE PERSON who is clearly and rationally opposed to Napster and who has used the service enough to be familiar with it. Me, I've been on Napster for weeks and weeks now whenever I can (Day Job machine has a fast line, home machine too pokey), promoting our band. Napster is about spreading music, opening new horizons. About making fans. nem0 wrote: > And to add something pointless to the MP3 arguements... I've probably > bought more CDs since I started using Napster than anytime before. Not pointless at all--this is exactly what it's all about, for me. Sure, I've met people who have thousands of mp3's burned onto CD (and from my past history I can only suggest that once you have thousands of anything you don't ever have time to listen to it any more). But I believe that they weren't going to buy the CD's anyway. CD sales ARE up this quarter. Not because music is better--this has been a pretty sucky quarter for big records--but because more people are listening; more people *can* listen. > Radio sucks in this town, so the only way I can hear a band is through > MP3. For instance, I read a review of the Guano Apes in Gamer's > Republic and thought they sounded cool, but didn't want to drop $15 on > their CD without hearing it first. I downloaded the full album, loved > it, then bought the CD a day later. I just did exactly the same thing with Bif Naked--I have no college station I can pick up here in NYC, and I'd read an interesting article or two on her/the band, so I grabbed a few tracks. Loved 'em. Was going to buy the record yesterday but didn't make it out of the house, and I'll buy it next time I'm in a record store. I've written a few articles on Napster; if anyone's interested you can check them out two of them at http://www.simanet.org/linus.html http://musicdish.com/mag/?id=968 Plus, let me add that mp3 sound is pretty bad. It gives me a headache and is no substitute, emotionally or functionally, for a CD--for me, at least. Even though I work in the music business I have very few ways to hear what's up in music, apart from what's in our excellent club scene (and I'm in the clubs constantly): bands I've been able to hear because of Napster, since radio failed so completely so long ago, include Bif Naked and Slipknot and number in the dozens. Some records I'll buy now, some I don't want (and certainly wouldn't have bought at random). I share about 240 tracks when I'm live; 20 or so of our HO artists (licensed and legal!) and another 30 or so commercial ones, mostly stuff I already own on vinyl but like to hear now and then in the office, and then all the rest are various live tracks. I was clearing stuff with Pawnshop, one of our bands, and Sean the lead singer (who doesn't do a lot of online stuff at all) says, look, I've heard your arguments in favor. What's my downside? What can I lose? Well, I said, your downside is this. Potentially, hundreds of thousands could have your music and listen to it and not buy your record. His eyes got big. "That's a DOWNSIDE?" he said. "Go for it." It's an incredible struggle to be heard, and Napster helps. Ciao - Linus Linus Gelber > Home Office Records: our house, our music linus@panix.com < http://www.web-ho.com for The Cucumbers, boss@web-ho.com > Pawnshop, The Dan Emery Mystery Band and cyrano@nycbeer.org < RAW Kinder: Indie Music like it oughtta be. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:33:13 -0400 From: "Kelly Lesperance" Subject: RE: More on Napster (NPR) > Had to chime in here, since this has been such a central theme of my life > lately. My indie label, Home Office Records, is about to become a Napster > affiliate when they launch their new "we have friends too" program next > week, and since I've started talking about this a lot I've found people > confused, misinformed, and raging. I do have to say this: I have yet to > find EVEN ONE PERSON who is clearly and rationally opposed to Napster and > who has used the service enough to be familiar with it. Me, I've been on > Napster for weeks and weeks now whenever I can (Day Job machine has a fast > line, home machine too pokey), promoting our band. Napster is about > spreading music, opening new horizons. About making fans. That's great really.. However, you still control that.. you said "OK, let's partner with Napster to help spread our music" ... the majority of stuff traded on Napster however is material which the artists DON'T want their fans trading for free... it's the whole "control" issue.. > Not pointless at all--this is exactly what it's all about, for me. Sure, > I've met people who have thousands of mp3's burned onto CD (and from my > past history I can only suggest that once you have thousands of anything > you don't ever have time to listen to it any more). But I believe that > they weren't going to buy the CD's anyway. CD sales ARE up this > quarter. > Not because music is better--this has been a pretty sucky quarter for big > records--but because more people are listening; more people *can* listen. You believe they WEREN'T going to buy the CDs in the first place? That's supposed to make it ok that they break the law? :) If they had no intentions of buying them, why would they still have them in Mp3 format? > I just did exactly the same thing with Bif Naked--I have no college > station I can pick up here in NYC, and I'd read an interesting article or > two on her/the band, so I grabbed a few tracks. Loved 'em. Was going to > buy the record yesterday but didn't make it out of the house, and I'll buy > it next time I'm in a record store. that's great.. but what about the people who use Mp3s as a substitute to purchasing CDs? > I've written a few articles on Napster; if anyone's interested you can > check them out two of them at > > http://www.simanet.org/linus.html > http://musicdish.com/mag/?id=968 > > Plus, let me add that mp3 sound is pretty bad. It gives me a headache and > is no substitute, emotionally or functionally, for a CD--for me, > at least. hmm.. I'd have to debate this..... 192 kbps encoded Mp3s paired with a decent set of speakers really do sound good... I can't tell the difference between them and CD audio.. perhaps you can, I don't know.. > Even though I work in the music business I have very few ways to hear > what's up in music, apart from what's in our excellent club scene (and I'm > in the clubs constantly): bands I've been able to hear because of Napster, > since radio failed so completely so long ago, include Bif Naked and > Slipknot and number in the dozens. Some records I'll buy now, some I > don't want (and certainly wouldn't have bought at random). I share about > 240 tracks when I'm live; 20 or so of our HO artists (licensed and > legal!) and another 30 or so commercial ones, mostly stuff I already own > on vinyl but like to hear now and then in the office, and then all the > rest are various live tracks. hmmmmm......... I don't think there's a problem with having music you own (be it on Vinyl, Cassette, CD, whatever) also available to yourself as an mp3.. as long as you do purchase the music... > I was clearing stuff with Pawnshop, one of our bands, and Sean the lead > singer (who doesn't do a lot of online stuff at all) says, look, I've > heard your arguments in favor. What's my downside? What can I lose? > Well, I said, your downside is this. Potentially, hundreds of thousands > could have your music and listen to it and not buy your record. His eyes > got big. "That's a DOWNSIDE?" he said. "Go for it." It's an incredible > struggle to be heard, and Napster helps. ok, but those artists who's music is being traded on Napster should have a say in whether or not it gets on there... > Ciao - Linus > > Linus Gelber > Home Office Records: our house, our music > linus@panix.com < http://www.web-ho.com for The Cucumbers, > boss@web-ho.com > Pawnshop, The Dan Emery Mystery Band and > cyrano@nycbeer.org < RAW Kinder: Indie Music like it oughtta be. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:07:25 -0700 From: AT Subject: (N) a (P) ste (R) Ive never been to Napster ,sounds like Ill go see.Thanks.I doubt EarthStink will leave me connected long enough to load anything tho! Re: the current debate , Each any every person who gets mp3s knows their own intentions.If you are doing it to avoid buying ,tsk tsk tsk..... If yer doing it to send Angry Johnny to someone who lives way out in Inbred County 50 miles away from the nearest Wal-Mart so they will see why youve become someone who calls him/her self a 'psycho' then youll probably still see heaven when the time comes for that. As an old guy , I usually take a nap everyday right after the stock market closes. AT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:16:32 EDT From: KrodKnid@aol.com Subject: Re: More on Napster (NPR) In a message dated 5/21/2000 10:47:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, linus@panix.com writes: << Had to chime in here, since this has been such a central theme of my life lately. My indie label, Home Office Records, is about to become a Napster affiliate when they launch their new "we have friends too" program next week, and since I've started talking about this a lot I've found people confused, misinformed, and raging. I do have to say this: I have yet to find EVEN ONE PERSON who is clearly and rationally opposed to Napster and who has used the service enough to be familiar with it. Me, I've been on Napster for weeks and weeks now whenever I can (Day Job machine has a fast line, home machine too pokey), promoting our band. Napster is about spreading music, opening new horizons. About making fans. >> I agree...in spite of the fact that I have been re-banned from Napster by Metallica...hehehe...I still think it is more about spreading music than ripping people off. I have purchased a number of tapes and cds just because of examples of artist's work I have gotten from Napster. Also, "Entertainment Industry" big shots have no room to snivel about it, since their common practice is to rip people off big time. I think they are just protecting their turf like a bull walrus or a pissing dog. For what it is worth, I have been ripped off by industry weasels for more material than I can even remember. When you have promoters handling dozens of groups who's MO is usually to milk the majority of them for material and channel it through their group of choice (usually the one they have already pumped the most advertising bucks into) then just dump the "sucker" bands with the "sorry pal, you just didn't make it" routine... and huge "stars" who are palmed off as "artistes" when in fact they are nothing but "productions" with teams of writers and musicians behind the scenes doing most of the actual creative work. Since the music business has been conglomerated into "the Entertainment Industry" along with movies and television and talk radio and tractor pulls and sports and network news, etc. there is little clout enjoyed by original artists. Big time rock stars are produced just like blockbuster movies...and the freakin' public eats it up!! You don't really believe Ah-nold was the Terminator/robot/cyborg in real life do you? And yet you will believe a cowboy superstar or someone is just a home boy doing all his own original stuff who the glamorous Hollwood folks just have to produce cause he's so good. Heh, heh...when all along the guy is scripted, hyped, primped, pimped, plastic surgeried, hair implanted...maybe even has lines written for him to deliver on Letterman or Leno...As Oscar Levant once said: "Strip away all the phony tinsel of Hollywood and you find the real tinsel underneath." BTW, linus@panix...do you use Linux? It would seem so natural:-) Also BTW, there are Napster clones springing up all over the place. I hope it goes completely out of control...at least beyond control of that damned "Industry". I downloaded "CuteMX" (by the CuteFTP/CuteHTML people) last light. It is a lot like Napster but with even more stuff. They even have a "hate list" so you can block people you don't like...and the converse as well...friends/enemies IOW. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:40:23 -0400 From: Ed Hunsinger Subject: RE: More on Napster (NPR) With all this crap about Napster in the news, other programs have been ignored. If you guys like Napster, check out Gnutella. http://gnutella.wego.com much better than napster, not dedicated towards mp3s, but rather files of any type. It's basically a new internet of file sharing. It's being open-sourced and the transfer protocol is available so versions of the software are popping up all over the place. There are client's for just about every operating system by now I think. So go check it out.. - -Ed ed@poe.org http://divinity.relic.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:07:19 -0500 From: Shawn Kuck Subject: O.Z. Willis Allright I'm not sure what happened, I'm new here so please forgive me if this went out last night. My Name is shawn and I live in Middle Tennessee and I just joined the angry psychos, but I have to tell you guys you need to check out this band O.Z. Willis They are one of the coolest industrial bands in town. I heard them last night and they rock. They have MP3's and such on they're website, you can also check them out on Farmclub.com. If you guys get the chance it's really worth the look. thanks Shawn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:07:39 -0400 From: Ed Hunsinger Subject: RE: NPR - Napster and Metallica Just want to toss some more of my 2 cents in here. My personal opinion is that musicians should make the majority of their money from touring. This is how it used to be in the old days when music couldn't even be recorded!! Music has only been recordable for what maybe a century or so? But it has been around for thousands of years. I think mp3s and the supposed loss of sales in overpriced cds that you can make for less than a dollar apiece (cmon, I buy blank cds for $.60 in stacks of 100, how much would they cost in stacks of 1,000, 1,000,000, etc?) should be pointing musicians back to the history of music. The live performance. Plus, you can make more out of a live tour than selling cds. I own maybe two Nine Inch Nails cds, but through mp3s, and friends, I was willing to shell out $100 to Mr Trent so me and my girlfriend could go see him live. I don't own any Lords Of Acid CDs, but again, I shelled out the cash to go see them. I now own almost all of My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult cds, because of one song off of the Crow soundtrack, and multiple mp3s. I think the stance on mp3s all depends on where you want to see music in twenty years. Personally I would rather see live music more than produced cds. I mean look at the Grateful Dead! I wonder how much they actually made in CD sales vs their tours, and their readily available taped shows that are out there. They seem to do pretty well with a lax stance on trading music. Anyways ,I'm starting to ramble, cause I just woke up and I need some mountain dew, but one last thought: Most Djs today don't sell cd's at all through commercial labels, they earn their keep by spinning at parties and there they can either give out tapes, or sell them for considerably less than you can get them in the store. I don't own any cds by Paul Oakenfold, but by god, I'm willing to drive my ass along with a car full of friends to Canada to end up paying probably about a grand in total for all of us to see him and other Djs spin. Strange and weird? Nope, all because I discovered him through mp3s. Hell, some DJs out there don't even have albums, just live sets in mp3 format floating around. Alright, I said that would be my last thought.. caffeine.. - -Ed ed@poe.org http://divinity.relic.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:42:28 -0500 From: Shawn Kuck Subject: oops Sorry forgot the website address its www.ozwillis.com check them out, sorry didn't get a whole lot of sleep to day. Shawn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 15:55:54 MDT From: "Shawn Laura Bross" Subject: Re: O.Z. Willis Dammit! Now there's another Shawn...I guess this is what I get for not posting or even reading any posts in months. *sigh* - -Shawn Laura Bross http://go.to/OterePyre - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Shawn Kuck To: angry psychos Subject: O.Z. Willis Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:07:19 -0500 Allright I'm not sure what happened, I'm new here so please forgive me if this went out last night. My Name is shawn and I live in Middle Tennessee and I just joined the angry psychos, but I have to tell you guys you need to check out this band O.Z. Willis They are one of the coolest industrial bands in town. I heard them last night and they rock. They have MP3's and such on they're website, you can also check them out on Farmclub.com. If you guys get the chance it's really worth the look. thanks Shawn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:07:37 MDT From: "Shawn Laura Bross" Subject: Re: (N) a (P) ste (R) I have earthlink on my other computer, and I've often queued like twenty songs during a night, slept and gotten them by morning. - ----Original Message Follows---- From: AT To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Subject: (N) a (P) ste (R) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:07:25 -0700 Ive never been to Napster ,sounds like Ill go see.Thanks.I doubt EarthStink will leave me connected long enough to load anything tho! Re: the current debate , Each any every person who gets mp3s knows their own intentions.If you are doing it to avoid buying ,tsk tsk tsk..... If yer doing it to send Angry Johnny to someone who lives way out in Inbred County 50 miles away from the nearest Wal-Mart so they will see why youve become someone who calls him/her self a 'psycho' then youll probably still see heaven when the time comes for that. As an old guy , I usually take a nap everyday right after the stock market closes. AT ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V5 #122 ***********************************