From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V3 #341 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Saturday, November 28 1998 Volume 03 : Number 341 Today's Subjects: ----------------- holidays [tobias grrrlie ] Re: holidays ["Kelly Lesperance" ] RE: holidays ["Bill Holz" ] test ["Notajunkie" ] RE: holidays ["Notajunkie" ] Re: holidays [LivTheMdns@aol.com] Re: [witchbaby] holidays [Monana21@aol.com] Nice bland NPR message. ["Chris Hunsaker" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: tobias grrrlie Subject: holidays has anybody ever noticed how exceedingly christian the world is? all the damned santas and rudolphs have morphed from symbols of the christian christmas to sybols of the "holiday season". but you don't see the star of david as a sign of the holiday season. no. that is because america is a christian country. how dare people presume i'm christian. i am a proud dianic wiccan, and would gladly lecture anybody who asks what that is. i hate it when people call the holidays "christmas" coz i don't celebrate christmas. my next door neighbor is 9, and she's jewish. she said to me "why do people say merry christmas? i don't do christmas. i do chanukkah." i said "i know, i don't celebrate christmas either. it's insulting, isn't it." sometimes it ruins my day when people actually have the nerve to tell me "i haven't got any christian cheer". well, that's good. i have as much christian cheer as i do jewish or muslim or buddhist cheer~ none whatsoever. the holidays are supposed to be joyful and shit. when i was invited to a holiday party, i declined. the hostess said "oh come on, do it for jesus." how can my holidays be merry with mad people cramming their religion up my ass? it's just a reminder how alone i am in this town. when i try to explain pagansim, they immediately mutter "pagan? devil? devil worshipping? may god have mercy on your soul!" and skitter away. are there any jewish/hindi/buddhist/pagan/atheists/muslims/whatever who sometimes just can't stomach all the goddamn 'christian' cheer? ~toby _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:24:02 -0500 From: "Kelly Lesperance" Subject: Re: holidays I don't see Santa and reinder, etc as symbols of Christianity.. nor do I look at Christmas as a Christian holiday (it's a time to be with family and get free stuff!) :) to me, Christmas started with that guy, St. Nick, who used to go around and deliver presents to the unfortunate children in his neighborhood.. it just happens to fall on the same day as the supposed "Saviour's" birthday.. :) so, why not look at Christmas in that respect, as opposed to a Christian holiday? :) then again, that's typical American, isn't it? assume everyone else shares their beliefs/point of view? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:43:38 -0500 From: "Bill Holz" Subject: RE: holidays They're not! Heck, most of the symbols of Christmas are pretty non-religious in nature. Others, like red-and-green colors, mistletoe, wreaths, etc. are actually old druidic or asartu symbols! Heck, the time around Christmas was celebrated long before the declaration of the holiday as one of various 'savior Gods' (Haephestus and Osirus primarily). Besides, according to the Bible and to historians Jesus Christ was almost certainly NOT born in December (most likely October). So basically you have a time of year that was celebrated for much of recorded history, and is currently claimed by the local 'dominant' religion, that doesn't mean that it cannot also be celebrated by agnostics, atheists, and unitarians as a purely non-religious expression of giving and it can't be celebrated by other faiths as their own holiday or as something other than the 'Christian' interpretation. I get annoyed too by people who tell me how they 'know' what our creator wants us to do, and how they have all this proof and such. But big deal, I'm not going to let that take away from an otherwise wonderful celebration! - -Bill > I don't see Santa and reinder, etc as symbols of Christianity.. nor do I > look at Christmas as a Christian holiday (it's a time to be with > family and > get free stuff!) :) to me, Christmas started with that guy, St. Nick, who > used to go around and deliver presents to the unfortunate children in his > neighborhood.. it just happens to fall on the same day as the supposed > "Saviour's" birthday.. :) so, why not look at Christmas in that > respect, as > opposed to a Christian holiday? :) > > then again, that's typical American, isn't it? assume everyone > else shares > their beliefs/point of view? ;) > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:37:56 -0600 From: "Notajunkie" Subject: test ********************************************************************** "Attention Rex Manning fans! To your left, you will notice a shoplifter being chased by our night manager Lucas. This young man will be caught, deep-fried in a vat of hot oil and served to our first 100 cutomers. Hahaha, just another tasty treat from the gang here at Empire Records." ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:02:47 -0600 From: "Notajunkie" Subject: RE: holidays This is correct. The calendar year originally had only 10 months in it. I believe that it was June and July that was added into the calendar year throughout the years.(I maybe wrong on the months, anyone know for sure?) I know that for sure. We talked about it in history class a few years ago I remember. As for hating Christian cheer....I believe that Christmas is a time for joy and families getting together. I myself have thought long and hard on the topic of religion and still haven't found one that agrees with me. I will definitely NOT call myself Christian, because I believe it is just oozing and ready to bust with nothing but Hypocrisy. > Besides, according to the Bible and to historians Jesus Christ was almost > certainly NOT born in December (most likely October). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:50:59 EST From: LivTheMdns@aol.com Subject: Re: holidays In a message dated 11/27/98 8:02:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, zombie@execpc.com writes: > This is correct. The calendar year originally had only 10 months in it. I > believe that it was June and July that was added into the calendar year > throughout the years.(I maybe wrong on the months, anyone know for sure?) > > I know that for sure. We talked about it in history class a few years ago I > remember. No, the months were July and August, named for Julius and Augustus Caesar while they were on a massive ego trip. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:34:36 -0500 (EST) From: Monana21@aol.com Subject: Re: [witchbaby] holidays Hmm. I am a brand-spankin' new memeber of this charming little list. I am a huge FLB fan and have gotten several of my friends into her as well. I would normally have just read this list for a few days to get the feel for it first, but I feel the need to respond to this particular message. Toby, I understand why you're peeved with the holidays, but your letter also made me a little uncomfortable. Christmas is one of the most imprtant holidays for Christians, and sometimes we can't help but be overly excited about it all. It's not just about all that Jesus stuff, it's also about family and friendship and togetherness and joy and love and all that stuff too. So maybe some people play up the Jesus thing a little too much, and people may forget that there are other religions out there. People say Merry Christmas because it's a greeting of the season. People are no trying to alienate you, or at least. I know I am not when I smile and greet someone. You don't see a Star of David because that would be a huge commercialization- just like Rudolph and Santa and all that have become so commercialized. Notice it's not Baby Jesus on the coke cans- it's Santa. Channukah isn't even a majorly significant holiday on the Jewish calendar. Not even in the top 5. But it has been pressed to become some sort of answer to Christmas, to become as commercialized and as crazy. So the world seems pretty Christian right now. Someday it may seem pretty something else. But hopefully all that hoopla can do nothing to shake you from your own personal spirituality. If that ever starts, then we all need to watch out. But, Ok, I know I probably screwed up by writing all this, considering I am brand new, nobody knows me, and nobody cares what I have to say. Toby, I am not fighting with you or anything, just expressing how I feel on the subject. Please, I did not mean to insult anyone. Well, if all this blows up in my face I can just drop out of the group, I guess, since I haven't invested much in it anyways. meg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Chris Hunsaker" Subject: Nice bland NPR message. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. I hope that everybody had a good one. If not, just wait until you can move away from your parents and have a thanksgiving that consists of lots of good friends and a relaxed evening. Now that's what it's all about. & Chris ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V3 #341 ***********************************