From: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org (angry-psychos-digest) To: angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Subject: angry-psychos-digest V2 #395 Reply-To: angry-psychos@smoe.org Sender: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-angry-psychos-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. angry-psychos-digest Friday, December 12 1997 Volume 02 : Number 395 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! ["CockyŽ" ] KROQ - X-mas cd & RADIO FREE [agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty M Shelby)] NPR-Vegetarians suck! [YEEL96E@prodigy.com (OO LALA)] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [YEEL96E@prodigy.com (OO LALA)] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [LiL~mIsS~76 ] NPR FW: Tori Amos/RAINN on Web PPV ["COBB,KYLE" ] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! ["danradloff" ] Sex merely a chemical impulse? ["PadmaT" ] Fwd: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [Smurfolina ] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [PyroShwee ] RE: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [Patrick Langley ] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! ["PAUL LEWIS" ] Re: for the real fan [Mettic1 ] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! ["Charles Lester" ] sex and life [SIRSAMURAl ] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [Kitana ] Sad News about the KROQ CD [C*A*S*E*Y ] Re: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [Flickergrl ] RE: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [Zippy the Wonder Slug! ] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! ["danradloff" ] Re: Sex merely a chemical impulse? ["danradloff" ] npr: Re: sex and life ["s-p-g@poe.org" <73214.1142@compuserve.com>] KROQ christmas cd [jessica ] Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! [jessica ] Re: I saw the coolest thing [jessica ] KROQ CD... a new perspective [DarthPepr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:53:11 -0800 From: "CockyŽ" Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! Please look way back at the begining of this list... Read the logs...... We already hit vegetarians, lesbians, religion, politics.... Why dont we just talk about something were really afraid or, and whoever else got wind of this already please contact me.... From sources deep in the Altlantic Offices, Poe is said to be doing a Christmass song with Hansen!..... Can somebody else confirm this???? Cocky=AE Malyson wrote: > VEGETARIANS SUCK!!!!!!!!!! > > (Not really, this is just a joke to stir up some conversation in this > lifeless > list!) > > > > *AP love* > > > Lynsey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:35:09 -0500 From: agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty M Shelby) Subject: KROQ - X-mas cd & RADIO FREE ok... this is no better than a "me too" post, but if there is anyone out there in AP land who wouldn't mind picking up a copy for me i will love you forever! i will pay for all costs.... just let me know. thanks! also, RADIO FREE... if you are still out there... i need another jacket... please email me...thanks! - -rusty ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ check out my web page! (updated 11/27/97) http://www.cantnot.org/rusty "SCREAM 2" opens tomorrow! check out http://www.cantnot.org/scream2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:41:25, -0500 From: YEEL96E@prodigy.com (OO LALA) Subject: NPR-Vegetarians suck! >VEGETARIANS SUCK!! um, does this infer that only vegetarians may partake of the great sucking ritual, or that if, in fact, i do already suck, i must give up the consumption of dead, charred animal flesh? just wondering. - rose. ____ - ------------------------------------ oolala@aros.net ICQ #4740929 http://www.arosnet.com/~oolala ------------------------------------- visit The Kobran Imperium BBS 1.801.265.1299 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:48:17, -0500 From: YEEL96E@prodigy.com (OO LALA) Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! >From sources deep in the Altlantic Offices, Poe is said to be doing a >Christmass song with Hansen! now THIS is sick and wrong. how am i to sleep at night? ack! ____ - ------------------------------------ oolala@aros.net ICQ #4740929 http://www.arosnet.com/~oolala ------------------------------------- visit The Kobran Imperium BBS 1.801.265.1299 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:04:44 -0500 (EST) From: LiL~mIsS~76 Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Malyson wrote: > VEGETARIANS SUCK!!!!!!!!!! > > (Not really, this is just a joke to stir up some conversation in this lifeless > list!) > > *AP love* VEGANS TASTE and DO IT BETTER tanii ************************** * Feel Me In Your Dreams * * Make Me Into Your * * Reality * ************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:05:00 -0500 From: "COBB,KYLE" Subject: NPR FW: Tori Amos/RAINN on Web PPV A quick tip for Tori fans from the Leah Andreone List... Pax, KyL Kyl Cobb kcobb@lawco.com (kyl_the_paladin@hotmail.com) Visit my personal Web site at www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/8442/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Lynne O'Connor Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:26 PM To: KCOBB; Leah List Subject: LU: Tori Amos/RAINN on Web PPV Skip down to paragraph three of the story for info on an appearance by Tori Amos... This message forwarded from... ********************************************** TipWorld - http://www.tipworld.com The Internet's #1 Source for Computer Tips, News, and Gossip Proudly presents: Internet Daily Wednesday, December 10, 1997 by Frank Barnako, CBS MarketWatch ---------------------------------------------- Made possible today by AUDIBLE Audible is a new system that lets you download thousands of hours of spoken audio and listen anywhere you go. To hear more, visit http://www.tipworld.com/arts.cgi?audible ---------------------------------------------- And now for today's news... Radio days at Internet World New York --- Real Audio Networks (RNWK) and a startup, Audiocast.net, outlined plans Wednesday at Internet World which promise to make the Internet dance and sing and talk like never before - and have some listeners pay for it. Real Networks chairman and chief executive officer Rob Glaser revealed four e- commerce companies have signed on to implement features of his company's latest streaming media software that will bring pay-per-listen and pay-per- view to the Web. Open Market, Cybersource, Verifone and CyberCash will support the Commerce solution embedded in RealSystem 5.0 servers for streaming media, which requires password authentication before permitting access to streaming media. CEO Glaser said one revenue model for PPV audio and video on the Net is digital satellite television and its pay-per-view offerings. He said his company has held discussions with several companies which could bring subscription-Net multimedia content to the Web, and expects some of them to begin doing so within a few months. He did name specific content producers. An example of the technology will be on the Web within a week, when RealNetworks will host a charity pay-per-view event featuring music videos from singer Toni Amos. "Many of these videos have not been released in the United States," explained Real Networks vice president Philip Rosedale. Visitors will be asked to make a donation to RAINN (the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network) and then be authorized to select programming to watch. Net radio network searches for 'geek' Scott Bourne is back. The man who, several years ago, invented NetRadio, the first Internet radio network, and then sold out for what he said "then looked like more money than God had" is starting again. This time it's AudioCast.net which promises, within a year, to offer 150 different radio programming options to Web users. "Our strategy will be to focus on talk radio, which is the fastest growing programming on commercial radio, and we expect it to be the same on the Internet," Bourne told a news conference at Internet World. AudioCast.net will not, however, use RealNetworks' technology. "I could have signed with anybody," said Bourne, "but VivoActive's production tools and clients are superior, and they're included in Microsoft's NetShow, so that's where we wanted to be." A spokesman for Vivo called Bourne's idea "a new media property ... and a challenge to all others because of its ability to target special interests." Bourne said his venture's programming will focus on business and financial talk shows, and will launch with three programs, including a nationally- syndicated small business program, "Let's Talk Business." AudiooCast's founder said his business model involves advertising on the site, while hinting that some kind of revenue sharing with program producers was also likely. He rejected RealNetworks' pay-per-listen option, telling Internet Daily, "Pay-per-view televisionhasn't worked yet. I don't think it'll work on the Net. The Net wants to be free." His revenue model also includes a reverse twist. While many audio and video program producers have re-purposed their content for the Web, Bourne says his company will be a programming producer. "Eventually, we'll be about 50 percent original, and 50 percent syndicated material. But some of that original material we'll transfer into real radio syndication, "and then we'll make real money." To get that programming effort underway, AudioCast.net is offering $10,000 and a job to the winner of a nationwide contest to find "a geeky radio personality" to handle a new show, Geek Radio. Net retailers need to re-learn the basics The pace of online transactions is exploding for Cybersource, "back room" processor of e-commerce tasks, including as customers Microsoft MSFT and Adobe ADBE. President and CEO Bill McKiernan said the number of transactions in the fourth quarter is on a pace to reach 500,000, quadruple the level of the third quarter. "And it's not because it's Christmas," he told Internet Daily. "The consumer is getting more confident, and the whole concept is gaining traction." McKiernan said he doesn't believe consumers are worried about online security, and refuses to accept that as a reason e-commerce may have been slow to build. "One real issue is some retailers, and their need to make shopping online a compelling experience." Amazon.com, he said, is making a step in that direction with its suggestions of other books a buyer may be interested in. "But what they need to do is have the online equivalent of the impulse rack of items at checkout." He said the technology is ready, "It's the online merchant who needs to work at it." ---------------------------------------------- The Internet Daily (TM) is originally published and edited by CBS MarketWatch. -- "Don't join the book burners. Don't think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed." -- Dwight David Eisenhower (1890-1969) "There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written, That is all." -- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) "Take away the right to say 'fuck' and you take away the right to say 'fuck the government.'" -- Lenny Bruce (1923-1966) "To curtail free expression strikes twice at intellectual freedom, for whoever deprives another of the right to state unpopular views also deprives others of the right to listen to those views." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. (1841-1935) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:19:44 -0700 From: "danradloff" Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! You are you supposed to start controversy if you put not really on the end. I'll show you how to start controversy. i think that society as i see it has become way to understanding of everything. There should be somethings that a person just can't be even if it is a free country. Chomp on that for awhile if it makes any sense to you. Oh and by the way heres my quote for the day. "Sex is just something that a bunch of chemical impulses in my brain desires. Sex is only for the body. Love is for the soul." Malyson wrote: > VEGETARIANS SUCK!!!!!!!!!! > > (Not really, this is just a joke to stir up some conversation in this > lifeless > list!) > > > > *AP love* > > > Lynsey ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 1997 13:01:39 -0700 From: "PadmaT" Subject: Sex merely a chemical impulse? Why make such an unnatural separation? Sex--and the drive toward ecstasy--unites humanity with nearly all other living things. Even the drive toward religious experience is grounded in the need for ecstasy, so much so that many religions are threatened by the ability of sexuality to make the ecstatic experience available to all people, not only "members of the church". The fruit of sexuality (new life) connects us not only to our ancestors but all the way back to the big f**king bang, and into the future through our progeny. Mere chemical impulses...I don't think so! My two bits. Padma _______________________________________________________________________________ From: danradloff on Thu, Dec 11, 1997 12:41 PM "Sex is just something that a bunch of chemical impulses in my brain desires. Sex is only for the body. Love is for the soul." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:16:32 EST From: Smurfolina Subject: Fwd: NPR-Vegetarians suck! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_881873193_boundary Content-ID: <0_881873193@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 97-12-11 14:31:06 EST, danradloff@pcisys.net writes: > i think that society as i see it has become way to understanding of > everything. There should be somethings that a person just can't be even if > it is a free country. ok, so first of all, are you saying that people are not supposed to be vegetarians? and also, are you implying that america is really a free country? because from how i see it people in this country hasn't been understanding of almost everything. even if there is something that the majority accepts there are ALWAYS others who stand in the way of true freedom. america sucks!!! luv lauren - --part0_881873193_boundary Content-ID: <0_881873193@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay22.mail.aol.com (relay22.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.68]) by air13.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:31:06 -0500 Received: from relay1.shore.net (relay1.shore.net [192.233.85.129]) by relay22.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA28036; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:30:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from jane.smoe.org (majordom@smoe.org [204.167.97.154]) by relay1.shore.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA01754; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:29:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4-listq-jane) id OAA26678; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:28:45 -0500 Received: by jane.smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:28:43 -0500 Received: by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4-listq-jane) id OAA26638; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:22:58 -0500 Received: from kramer.pcisys.net (kramer.pcisys.net [207.76.102.252]) by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4-daemon-mode-relay2) with ESMTP id OAA26634 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:22:49 -0500 Received: from danradloff (mike85.pcisys.net [208.198.212.85]) by kramer.pcisys.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) via SMTP id MAA14551 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:20:19 -0700 (MST) env-from (danradloff@pcisys.net) From: "danradloff" To: "poe" Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd0669$bcce2080$55d4c6d0@danradloff> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-angry-psychos@smoe.org X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "angry-psychos-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable You are you supposed to start controversy if you put not really on the en= d.=0AI'll show you how to start controversy.=0A=0Ai think that society as= i see it has become way to understanding of=0Aeverything. There should = be somethings that a person just can't be even if=0Ait is a free country.= =0AChomp on that for awhile if it makes any sense to you.=0AOh and by the= way heres my quote for the day.=0A=0A"Sex is just something that a bunch= of chemical impulses in my brain=0Adesires. Sex is only for the body. = Love is for the soul."=0A=0AMalyson wrote:=0A=0A> VEGETARIANS SUCK!!!!!!!= !!!=0A>=0A> (Not really, this is just a joke to stir up some conversation= in this=0A> lifeless=0A> list!)=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> *AP love*=0A>=0A>=0A> Ly= nsey=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A - --part0_881873193_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:15:41 EST From: PyroShwee Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! Hey NOW!!! joke or no joke... we've beat that senseless... and I DO NOT SUCK thankyouverymuch =) ap love, ashley ashley@poe.org Malyson wrote: > VEGETARIANS SUCK!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:21:52 -0600 From: Patrick Langley Subject: RE: NPR-Vegetarians suck! In this country everyone has a right to fight for what they believe in. Here you can express your beliefs no matter how stupid they may be(as long as it doesn't harm others). Unlike other more repressive countries around the globe, say china for instance. That's the reason we have so many damn lawyers in this country, everyone is hung up on personal liberties(and money the can get if it has been limited in the most minute way). Granted we don't all get to live in Amsterdam, but then again we aren't half underwater either. I think you may be confusing a lack of freedom with a difference of opinion(which by the way you are free to do). Similarly, Dan can make fun of vegetarians. Personally, the only reason I can see being a vegetarian is for health reasons. I think that it is hypocritical to say you don't want to eat another living creature. Plants are people too. Just cuz they can't scream out when you kill them doesn't mean they aren't alive. They grow, move, produce young and die just like you and me. That is as bad as people who think you should only eat the ugly animals, not cats, dogs(i.e. Chinese food) or horses or birds. Besides humans are set up to eat meat and veggies. My ancestors didn't claw and scrap their way to the top of the food chain so we could go back to crazing the plains like a heard of cattle(moo, moo). I feel free to eat anything that's not eating me ;-) If you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding. You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat. At least we are getting out of our boring rut. In a message dated 97-12-11 14:31:06 EST, danradloff@pcisys.net writes: > i think that society as i see it has become way to understanding of > everything. There should be somethings that a person just can't be even if > it is a free country. ok, so first of all, are you saying that people are not supposed to be vegetarians? and also, are you implying that america is really a free country? because from how i see it people in this country hasn't been understanding of almost everything. even if there is something that the majority accepts there are ALWAYS others who stand in the way of true freedom. america sucks!!! luv lauren << Message: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:25:37 -0500 From: "PAUL LEWIS" Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! I usually don't post,but I have to comment on the subject. I'm not a vegetarian, but I support The cause. Maybe one day I'll stop eating meat. Let's stand together as one. BYE XPAULX "UNITY AS ONE STAND TOGETHER" from the OPIV song UNITY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:29:26 EST From: Mettic1 Subject: Re: for the real fan me too, i'd be absolutely stoked if i could get a copy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:58:10 -0600 From: "Charles Lester" Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! I agree with Patrick that was very well said. - ---------- > From: Patrick Langley > To: 'Smurfolina' ; 'angry-psychos@smoe.org' > Subject: RE: NPR-Vegetarians suck! > Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 4:21 PM > > In this country everyone has a right to fight for what they believe in. > Here you can express your beliefs no matter how stupid they may be(as > long as it doesn't harm others). Unlike other more repressive > countries around the globe, say china for instance. That's the reason > we have so many damn lawyers in this country, everyone is hung up on > personal liberties(and money the can get if it has been limited in the > most minute way). Granted we don't all get to live in Amsterdam, but > then again we aren't half underwater either. I think you may be > confusing a lack of freedom with a difference of opinion(which by the > way you are free to do). Similarly, Dan can make fun of vegetarians. > > > Personally, the only reason I can see being a vegetarian is for health > reasons. I think that it is hypocritical to say you don't want to eat > another living creature. Plants are people too. Just cuz they can't > scream out when you kill them doesn't mean they aren't alive. They > grow, move, produce young and die just like you and me. That is as bad > as people who think you should only eat the ugly animals, not cats, > dogs(i.e. Chinese food) or horses or birds. Besides humans are set up > to eat meat and veggies. My ancestors didn't claw and scrap their way > to the top of the food chain so we could go back to crazing the plains > like a heard of cattle(moo, moo). I feel free to eat anything that's > not eating me ;-) > > If you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding. You can't > have any pudding if you don't eat your meat. > > At least we are getting out of our boring rut. > > > In a message dated 97-12-11 14:31:06 EST, danradloff@pcisys.net writes: > > > i think that society as i see it has become way to understanding of > > everything. There should be somethings that a person just can't be > even if > > it is a free country. > > ok, so first of all, are you saying that people are not supposed to > be > vegetarians? and also, are you implying that america is really a free > country? because from how i see it people in this country hasn't been > understanding of almost everything. even if there is something that > the > majority accepts there are ALWAYS others who stand in the way of true > freedom. america sucks!!! > > luv lauren > << Message: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! >> > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:51:29 EST From: SIRSAMURAl Subject: sex and life does it really matter that sex is just a chemical reaction? No. What matters is that sex is enjoyment at a primal level. For that moment (or moments...depending on what is happening) you are at the soul of happiness and pleasure. Some people seem to think that drugs can lead you there, or that alcohol can take you down the road. They are wrong. Only from the joining of two (or more, depending on what your thing is) can this happiness be found. Want to know what can come close (hold on tight here folks) music. Whether it is a song by Poe or by John Lee Hooker (or anybody for that matter) a song that moves you moves you on a primal level (just as sex should). That is why truely gifted artists should be treasured. Ignore the stuff that you don't like (for me it would be country and rap) and live in the moment and enjoy the good (Poe) to the highest degree. After all, that is why music is there. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:42:29 -0500 From: Kitana Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! But you gotta love the way we nibble our carrots. *g* - -Kitana- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:02:49 +0000 From: C*A*S*E*Y Subject: Sad News about the KROQ CD Okay people, I'm really sorry but all the KROQ X-mas CD's sold out, I didn't even get one for myself. So if I promised you something, I don't have it, and If you sent me money, I'll send it back to you! I'm really sorry people! Danke, C*A*S*E*Y ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:55:14 EST From: Flickergrl Subject: Re: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! i am slightly offended by this entire discussion. what's up with this "vegetarians suck" thing? and what's up with this entire "list is dead?" theory. we were reading in english today ralph waldo emerson's essay on "self- reliance" the teacher was explaining how you can think whatever you want, and that's ok.. as long as you have reasons to back it up...which i believe is totally true. that's wonderful that you think the list is dead and that vegetarians suck. i am happy for u all, but there is no way that i can accept your views without seeing your reasons why. does that make sense? it should. i for one, *am* a vegetarian... and i have been for about a year. just coming out and posting "VEGETARIANS SUCK" is like me just randomly posting something like "PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO POE" suck. being a vegetarian is a choice, just like listening to POE is a choice. you might not have to respect my choice, but don't put me down for no reason. (PLEASE, PLEASE.... DO NOT POST IT *TO THE LIST* NO WARS AGAIN!) so whatever, just think before you speak because you can really hurt someone's feelings- even if it was just meant to be a topic to get the list into another NPR annoying flame war ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:47:19 -0500 From: Zippy the Wonder Slug! Subject: RE: NPR-Vegetarians suck! Patrick, your logic is well though out but your facts are inaccurate. Yes, health reasons are certainly the least debatable. It is well documented that the vegetarian lifestyle is far less damaging to our system than the typical American/meat-eating diet. There are other concerns that do not fall in the animal-rights catagory too. Ecological, for instance. The impact that the meat industry has on the environment is surprising and disgusting. It has been estimated that it takes the same amount of water to raise one cow for consumption as it does to float a U.S. destroyer battle ship. Then when you consider the number of peope fed off of one cow (not too many) there is an incredible waste of water directly attributed to the meat industry. There is also a great number of chemicals involved in the meat inustry which ranges from the excretion (cows shit a lot) that gets into the water and polutes it, to the chemicals they inject cow's with that comes out into people when they consume the meat. I degress, as the list of facts I could supply you with is not only long but also availible to anyone who really wants to take a look in the book "A Diet for a New America". As for the other, moral, concerns. First of all you can't just lump all ethical vegetarians into a group which says "I dont' want to eat another living creature". I know a number of ethical vegetarians (including myself) and none of them say that. The idea is to cause as little suffering as possible. Perhaps, plants feel pain. There is little evidence to support this claim. Studies do show increased electrical activity at times when it might be assumed the plant is feeling pain if it were indeed cognizant of what was occuring. The fact that the plant is not cognizant eleminates most probability that it does feel any- thing even closely resembling pain. It hasn't got the advanced neurological make-up that animals have. But even if the plant does feel pain we must concider some other factors. Through the process of evolution which is a process that causes organizims to develop into what they become as a result of that being the most efficient way for that organism to exist. A plants reproductive situation is limited. Without being able to roam around and find a mate they are dependent apon animals/insects to do that. Aside from the process of pollination it is necessary that the plants be eaten. Yes, I am saying that according to the laws of nature plants are supposed to be eaten in order to preserve the species. An animal eats the fruit, berries, what have you and in doins so eats the seeds of that plant. Then the animal goes about its buisness and "deposits" those eaten seeds elsewhere. Not only deposits them but in there own fertilizer too. Then if it is not a question of eating the seeds it is a question of eating a portion of the plant and getting the seeds caught on the animal and agian the animal leaves, depositing the seeds elsewhere. So you see, plants depend on being eaten. Ask any true gardener and they will tell you that plants grow better, fuller, lusher, etc when they are pruned. No animal grows back better when portions of it, say a leg, are removed. There is more. You mention your ancestors. Well, that term is very dilusive. The ancestors you refer to are not even humans. We are talking proto-human development. The Neaderthalus which is not yet in the realm of homo-sapiens. Neanderthal-man was not at the top of the food chain. Austrilopithicus was not at the top of the food chain and they were humans. In fact, never has the human race been at the top of the food chain. We exist outside of the food chain. Because of our ability to use tools we can, in *some* instances beat any other given animal and eat it. But I challenge anyone here to walk into the local zoo's lions den and try a bare handed discussion with the lion, explaining that you are superior to it while it rips you limb from limb. As a matter of fact, aside from our intilect, we are pretty whimpy as far as ainimals go. What I don't under- stand is that you do point out that our bodies are constructed like the other omnivores but after praising your ancestors for getting to the top of the food chain you say "go back to (g)raising the plains", which we never did like cattle. Early and proto-humans were hunter gatherers, not "cattle". Now even though I am an ethical vegan, I do not condemn anyone for eathing meat. The thing that makes us "superior" so to speak, as humans, is our abililty to choose. With the existance of a greater mass of grey-matter in the cerebral portions of our brains we have a greater intelligence and ability to concider matters in ways which animals cannot. But at the same time we are animals. We have a dual nature, it seems. I don't eat animals becuase I do not have to. I exercise my ability to choose by choosing the more humane of the alternatives. Others have there own rights and reasons to choose the more animalistic of the alternatives. Just like in other cases of violence, some people choose to kill other people over animalistic, instincual matters and I choose to be a human in those situations. Think about it. Well, as far as pudding is concerned that is a whole different ball game. Pudding, along with jel-o exists in a far different sphere and realm which outdistances that of standard moral and human ability to conceptualize. Thomas PPMS - ---------- > From: Patrick Langley > To: 'Smurfolina' ; 'angry-psychos@smoe.org' > Subject: RE: NPR-Vegetarians suck! > Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 4:21 PM > > Personally, the only reason I can see being a vegetarian is for health > reasons. I think that it is hypocritical to say you don't want to eat > another living creature. Plants are people too. Just cuz they can't > scream out when you kill them doesn't mean they aren't alive. They > grow, move, produce young and die just like you and me. That is as bad > as people who think you should only eat the ugly animals, not cats, > dogs(i.e. Chinese food) or horses or birds. Besides humans are set up > to eat meat and veggies. My ancestors didn't claw and scrap their way > to the top of the food chain so we could go back to crazing the plains > like a heard of cattle(moo, moo). I feel free to eat anything that's > not eating me ;-) > > If you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding. You can't > have any pudding if you don't eat your meat. > > At least we are getting out of our boring rut. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:18:36 -0700 From: "danradloff" Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! see i told ya. I know how to start controversy. Besides, it's survival of the fittest baby. If i'm smarter than that cow, i'm gonna eat it. Now don't start telling me that if you are smarter than me you are going to eat me. I only mean between other species. - -----Original Message----- From: Smurfolina To: poe Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 2:39 PM Subject: Fwd: NPR-Vegetarians suck! >In a message dated 97-12-11 14:31:06 EST, danradloff@pcisys.net writes: > >> i think that society as i see it has become way to understanding of >> everything. There should be somethings that a person just can't be even if >> it is a free country. > >ok, so first of all, are you saying that people are not supposed to be >vegetarians? and also, are you implying that america is really a free >country? because from how i see it people in this country hasn't been >understanding of almost everything. even if there is something that the >majority accepts there are ALWAYS others who stand in the way of true >freedom. america sucks!!! > >luv lauren > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:15:13 -0700 From: "danradloff" Subject: Re: Sex merely a chemical impulse? you have got to be shittin' me. This is the biggest bunch of BS i have heard in a long time. Do you think that dead people care about sex. No. Do you think they have sex in heaven. (at least more than just missionary). I doubt they have whips and chains and stuff in heaven. Besides, i'm not a religious person so i don't care about the corrolation of sex and church (it would make me show up at church more though). Just how do souls and bodiless spirits have sex anyway. - -----Original Message----- From: PadmaT To: Angry Psychos Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:35 PM Subject: Sex merely a chemical impulse? >Why make such an unnatural separation? Sex--and the drive toward >ecstasy--unites humanity with nearly all other living things. Even the drive >toward religious experience is grounded in the need for ecstasy, so much so >that many religions are threatened by the ability of sexuality to make the >ecstatic experience available to all people, not only "members of the church". >The fruit of sexuality (new life) connects us not only to our ancestors but >all the way back to the big f**king bang, and into the future through our >progeny. Mere chemical impulses...I don't think so! > >My two bits. > >Padma > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >From: danradloff on Thu, Dec 11, 1997 12:41 PM > >"Sex is just something that a bunch of chemical impulses in my brain >desires. Sex is only for the body. Love is for the soul." > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:13:51 -0500 From: "s-p-g@poe.org" <73214.1142@compuserve.com> Subject: npr: Re: sex and life Um, to me it seems slighty odd to say that we have sex for the same reaso= n we have music.... My opinion: When any other animal is "mature", it gets the urge to mate and reproduce= =2E = In a human, think 14-year old girl or 17-year old male. However, in a human, there is more to it that that. It is the strong urge to "mate" wi= th THAT person. HOPEFULLLY because of LOVE. When it's because of LUST, I TOTALLY compare being horny to being HUNGRY or THIRSTY. Just like if you= haven't eaten in a while you get hungry, when you haven't fucked in a whi= le you get horny. It just goes on that list with things your body needs to = do to survive. Statistics show that people who die a natural death still a virgin, die much YOUNGER than people who had sex and died naturally. = I could go into more detail, but I like to keep posts short... :) silver pepper girl s-p-g@poe.org = ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:16:00 -0500 From: jessica Subject: KROQ christmas cd if someone did get this cd and wants to tape it for me i'd be awfully greatful...(e-mail me) thanks! - -- ~jessica "Well, you may be king for the moment But I am queen understand And I've got your pawns and your bishops and castles All in the palm of my hand" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:13:00 -0500 From: jessica Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! Message-ID: <3490B9A1.26C2@poe.org> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:12:17 -0500 From: jessica X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Malyson Subject: Re: NPR-Vegetarians suck! References: <74304456.348f6428@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Malyson wrote: > > VEGETARIANS SUCK!!!!!!!!!! > > (Not really, this is just a joke to stir up some conversation in this lifeless > list!) > > *AP love* > Lynsey no they do not! but, sometimes you have to feel sorry for the broccoli...it can't even fight back... - -- ~jessica "Well, you may be king for the moment But I am queen understand And I've got your pawns and your bishops and castles All in the palm of my hand" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:10:43 -0500 From: jessica Subject: Re: I saw the coolest thing PuppyDawg3 wrote: > > Ok I dont know how many of you guyz heard about this, but I live in Cincinnati > Ohio and 2 of our Police officers were murdered execution style this past > friday. Today was the funeral. The funeral procession went right by my > house. The neat thing was they had over 1,000 police cars in the procession > all with their lights on. It was the most beautiful thing people came out of > there houses and everyone united on the corner of my street, I couldnt help > from crying. I know a lot of police officers and I knew the ones who were > murdered. They were great men, everyone says "oh cops are pigs" but really > they arent, there was a unity between everyone. The furthest police vehicle > was from Alaska, a cop drove from Alaska to support these two cops and didnt > even know him. The procession took 1 hour and 15 minutes for every car to go > by my house and traffic was a parking lot on my street and around my whole > town, it was like the REM video Everybody hurts where the cars stop on the > freeway and everyone gets out that's what happened. I dont think we know how > hard it is for police officers to put their lives in danger and do what they > do > > Liz i live in cincinnati also and it was amazing how much people actually cared. i know that this i a terrible way to get people to unite, but in a way, i'm proud of everyone who showed up and how touched everyone was by this tragic event. people really aren't all that bad. - -- ~jessica "Well, you may be king for the moment But I am queen understand And I've got your pawns and your bishops and castles All in the palm of my hand" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:16:13 EST From: DarthPepr Subject: KROQ CD... a new perspective heyas all ;) Since it looks like we might have a hard time getting our grubby little paws on this as a group I do have another possibility to insure that everyone has the opportunity to get this cd. If anyone who gets this cd will either get me a copy OR make a tape of the cd and send to me (I will cover costs either way) I can make CD copies from either media now. *DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS* Should this happen I want everyone to know it would take some time for me to get the cds out to everyone... I am currently working 80+ hours a week and would only be able to make the CDs in my limited spare time so they would be done in the order the requests are received. I would ask that anyone who would get a cd from me cover the cost of the cd and shipping... all told maybe five to ten dollars tops. This would of course depend on how many orders I get, as the more blank cds I buy the cheaper they are. *END DISCLAIMER* Should someone out there be willing to provide me with a copy of the album I will send another email to the list with the details. Brad ------------------------------ End of angry-psychos-digest V2 #395 ***********************************