From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V6 #58 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Tuesday, March 12 2002 Volume 06 : Number 058 Today's Subjects: ----------------- On cliques and claques and acceptance ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: On cliques and claques and acceptance [Bridget ] Re: On cliques and claques and acceptance [mcee ] Re: I have an AVI of last night's Play ["Jason A.Reiser" ] Re: I have an AVI of last night's Play [Lynne ] Re: On cliques and claques and acceptance [Hugo Rodrigues Subject: On cliques and claques and acceptance So Shannon (http://Mocksie.diaryland.com) has been posting guest entries in her diary. An interesting one yesterday was written by an anonymous fruhead who pretty much had a bad experience with "The Community." This of course sparked my curiosity and so I talked to a few people about who they thought this person might be. As part of that discussion an opinion was presented that the Fruhead Community has for some time now been "outted as a myth" (which was more or less what the poster to Shannon's diary was saying). This got me thinking and caused me to produce the following, which I now post here for your comments, criticism, praise, or furtive snickering. A.J. - ----------------------- Well The Fruhead Community was (is?) a myth and it wasn't. The people who do nothing but hurl accusations of cliquishness and intolerance certainly missed something. There WAS a lot of welcoming and I think genuine love and caring. At the same time the criticisms are not imagined either. Along with the good stuff there was an awful lot of social climbing, backstabbing, posing, and incidences of "holier than thou". Part of this is due to human nature, part of it is due to the fact that we are talking about a group that by and large was OBSESSED with a band (and in many cases people had sexual and or romantic feelings for the band members). The whole thing worked better when the majority of the group were all in about the same place in terms of the evolution of their fandom. When you started having people who were just discovering Fruvous rubbing virtual elbows with people who had learned some of the reality behind the Fruvous image, this caused a big dissonance. The newbies looked out of control to the older people and the older people looked stuck up and cliquey to the newbies (to some extent they were--an obvious defense against those who seemed like psycho fans). Throw into that mix the few people who actually WERE psycho fans, plus the people who weren't sure if being friends with newer fans would make them lose their carefully nurtured place in what they perceived as an "inner circle" and you have a mess. You have people who want access to the real Mike-Dave-Jian-Murray, people who think they have access to them from show interactions, people who DO have some access to the guys, and people who have had had dinner or sex with one of them all navigating this social net with one motive being to make friends and have fun, but another often more primary motive being to guard and enhance their own social position vis a vis the band. That wasn't a very healthy environment for being all-welcoming and all-accepting. I think people wanted it, but the other circumstances got in the way and many people were afraid that if they were too open they would lose what THEY had. Every single one of us fits into this description to some extent. The extent that we've gotten past it all and been able to be genuinely open and welcoming is the real measure of the success of the Fruhead community. - -- "I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport."--G.W. Bush, Arlington VA, Oct. 2, 2001. Email:aj@locicero.org ICQ: 13117113 AIM: locicero For some of the best Long Distance and Calling Card rates around visit http://www.ld.net/?sensible. Cheap rates and *I* get a commission! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:24:45 -0800 (PST) From: Bridget Subject: Re: On cliques and claques and acceptance - --- "A.J. LoCicero" wrote an interesting theory on the intricate web that is the Fruhead community. He spake of newbies, older fans, and psycho fans, those among us who have interactions with the band only via after-concert meet n' greets, those among us who are friends of the band, and those among us who are intimately close to one or more members of the band. It is fascinating to me how this discussion seems to run rampant on the newsgroup after any given Fruhead convention. Coincidence? > That wasn't a very healthy environment for > being all-welcoming and > all-accepting. I think people wanted it, but > the other circumstances got in the > way and many people were afraid that if they > were too open they would lose what > THEY had. > > Every single one of us fits into this > description to some extent. The extent > that we've gotten past it all and been able to > be genuinely open and welcoming > is the real measure of the success of the > Fruhead community. I think AJ makes some great points. Here are a couple of MY observations... First off, I'd like to point out that I feel like a bit of an anomaly within the Fruhead community. I'm not a long time fan but I'm not a newbie; I'm not a part of any "inner circle" but when I start counting up the people I've met through Fruvous I am amazed at the number; I live far out of what I percieve to be a kind of "Fruvous realm" but I've still attended my fair share of shows. Do I believe in the Fruhead community? Absolutely. Do I think it's a utopian society that all mankind should strive to emulate? Hell, no. But we seem to get people, time and time again, who are surprised to see humans act like... humans. Maybe before I ramble any further, we should even look at _defining_ the Fruhead community. Another hot topic from the past. What makes a Fruhead? Is it how many shows you've seen? How many stamps you earned? How many of the band members know you by name? Can you be a Fruhead if you've never seen the band perform live? I don't know the answer. I reached back in my memory to try and determine the point when I first considered myself a Fruhead and I can't do it. I've always been a Fruhead, haven't I? So it's a hard term to define. And I believe this is where a lot of our grumbling comes from... What we are missing is a pecking order, a way to definitively establish ourselves in terms of our Fruhead-ness, and what has spawned is some kind of anarchical every-wo/man-for-her/himself race to the prize, which is to be (or at least THOUGHT to be) a Close Personal Friend Of The Band (CPFOTB). Our need to be a CPFOTB is, IMHO, at the root of all the nastiness, cruelty and other bad stuff that's happened and been complained about. We know it's out there. We just don't want to admit it, for that would be admitting to a chink in our utopian armor. I think a more discussion-worthy topic than "Why Fruheads are Mean" might be "Why We Think We Need To Be CPFOTB In The First Place". I went through the CPFOTB wanna-be phase, as I'm sure most of you have (admit it!). But I got over it. In fact, my fru-evolution went something like this: October 1998: I got autographs from all four band members! They came out to talk after the show!! What a great band!!! December 1998: I got autographs AND pictures! Will there ever be more excitement in my life? February 1999: Fruheads are fun! But when there are too many of them together, it's impossible to talk to the band after the show... The flash on my camera is broken, the Con pictures won't turn out. Damn. June 1999: Jian told me that he read my review of the Boulder show. I think I'm going to die of happiness! I met Joy and Lorene, from New Mexico. Great people! September 1999: The Midwest sure is pretty this time of year. I wish Donna could go to Minneapolis with us. Katrin's parents RAWK! October 1999: It was wonderful to see Donna, Joe, Debbie, Joy and Lorene. And Fruvous in my hometown. Jian serenaded me with "Me & Bridget Down By The Schoolyard". Bliss. December 2000: Happy New Year; Happy Fake Milennium. I missed Brandie and Dan!!! Kat! Donna! Chrissy! May 2000: Happy Birthday Donna! Eggs in the corners... kings in the basket... You bitch. Oh, was there a Fruvous show? Maybe I'm weird. Maybe I'm naive. But to me, Frutripping became all about seeing my friends and having a good time. Seriously. Yeah, it would still be cool if Murray said "Hi Bridget" the next time I see him, but what will it mean in the grand scheme of things? It won't make me laugh two years later the way I laugh when I think about Amanda getting us free breakfast at Denny's. It won't make me feel the (literal) pain of sitting in front of the Ark playing Go Fish with Becky and Kat all afternoon. I have no idea what point I'm trying to make here. I guess that I hate Mondays and would much rather ramble than work. And for all we know I could be making a (nonexistent) MOOT point, since, at least at this printing, there is no Fruvous, hence no Band with which to become Close Personal Friends. Peace, Bridget - who feels, at 22.5 months after her last Fruvous experience, as if she is discussing ancient history... PS - if you can follow the train of my thoughts today, you deserve a smile! :) Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:09:21 -0500 From: mcee Subject: Re: On cliques and claques and acceptance Bridget wrote: > But we seem to get people, time and time > again, who are surprised to see humans act > like... humans. Yes. Yes! > Another hot topic from the past. What makes a > Fruhead? Ooh, ooh, I know this one! A person named Chris who studied music and works in computers. Although that standard has probably shifted. Maybe now it's persons called Carla who studied geometry and now works for Home Depot. Who knows! :) MC, feeling *so* silly. Weee! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 2002 18:46:12 -0800 From: "Jason A.Reiser" Subject: Re: I have an AVI of last night's Play In article <3c890053.17156369@news.sentex.ca>, omegakap@snotball.net says... > >I know there are a couple of people in the US that don't get CBC >newsworld who wanted a copy of the first episode of Play. I've made >an insanely large DivX AVI of it. If anyone wants a copy, I'll do B&P >for it, or straight trades for other shows. Email me for details, >omegakap@snotball.net The file is about 325MB and looks great. If you have the bandwidth, get in touch and I can give you the information to download it from me. I for one would love to see a weekly solution to get the show out to the non-Canadian masses. I could upload it to a USENET binaries group, but I suspect only 4 people would understand how to download it, and only 1 or 2 would have any luck with it. The show is really worth seeing. The format is pretty unique, the topics were interesting, and Jian proved he can really do this. I honestly had my doubts, primarily because it's been my experience that people who have a lot to say rarely make good interviewers. I pictured him not letting his guests get a word in edgewise. Or at least getting that "I have something to add" look on his face a lot. ;) Seriously, I think my only real gripe was that they told us too much about their negative opinions on one of the movies before showing the clip. If the movie sucks, hold off a little on the opinion, and then I won't hate you for showing me a clip of a bad movie. ;) Fun stuff. Now if I could only get CBC Television on Time Warner Cable. It seems reasonable to me. I mean, I get like a half dozen CSPAN channels, several MTVs, and I can watch some geek blather on about how to fix Microsoft Windows problems on TechTV. I guess the last one is okay - he's a Fruhead afterall... *duck-and-run-for-cover* - - Jason PS - Jian was clearly wearing a girdle for the introductory segment. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:46:10 -0600 (CST) From: Lynne Subject: On cliques and claques and acceptance AJ I think you've got it. I'm a middle-be, and have had a bunch of experiences. I was going to list them, but decided against. Well put - and for the most part(cuz I dont/havent read EVERYthing you post), AJ, i think you are one of the fairest and intelligent people who post to the newsgroup.. not to list ppl, but I usually like what Lori has to say too. and I'm not brown nosing or hoping you'll get me in with the band! - -lynne maybe I'll check out the dary land thingy and post some dirty gossip, there.... kidding! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:54:41 -0600 (CST) From: Lynne Subject: Re: I have an AVI of last night's Play C'mon JAson - do you really think jian is all that interested in EVERY little thing EVERY little fan (or fruhead yikes!) is saying..... Ye of little faith... lynne, not speaking for ANYone, especially mr. ghomeshi - ---------- jason said: ---------- The show is really worth seeing. The format is pretty unique, the topics were interesting, and Jian proved he can really do this. I honestly had my doubts, primarily because it's been my experience that people who have a lot to say rarely make good interviewers. I pictured him not letting his guests get a word in edgewise. Or at least getting that "I have something to add" look on his face a lot. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:55:31 -0500 From: Hugo Rodrigues Subject: Re: On cliques and claques and acceptance So... cliques and groups. I know from hearing it said to my face that there have been a number of people in the past who have at times marveled and at other times frazzled over the particulars of how I don't give a rat's ass at times about this "community." I like my audience-performer relationship just the way it has always been, thank you very much. I always have. There they are, here *I* am on the other side. I've always thought that those people who out-do themselves trying to cross the audience-performer threshold as a little over the top. Has that stopped me from getting to know some of these people very well? No. Has it stopped me from going to shows (or conventions... even really small ones where I don't know more than 10 people?)? No. I go to see who's there and to enjoy myself. Not to impress, or piss off, or show off -- although I've likely done all three simply by being myself while there. These issues only exist if we give them prominence. I digress... - -- "This isn't history, we're making television." -- Made in Canada, CBC-TV *MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO* Hugo Rodrigues Peterborough, ON Underemployed journalist http://www3.sympatico.ca/hrodrigues Forever Fruvous!!! *MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO*MOO* ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 2002 20:30:44 -0800 From: chrissiek@ehmail.com (Chris K @*_*@) Subject: Re: On cliques and claques and acceptance Awww Bridget!! We miss you!! *sniff* :( I don't remember FCII shows - just that we were squished in the car. :) Christine. ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V6 #58 *******************************************