From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #335 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Friday, August 4 2000 Volume 04 : Number 335 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Rochester Underage Fruhead Warning: [Anna! ] Spice Girls on Speed singing Michy.. [fruomffan@diganet.com (Cara Kozack)] Syracuse show and aftermath [Larry Dietrich ] Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions [MJ ] Re: Rochester Underage Fruhead Warning: [limezinger@aol.complicates (soni] Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! [ACW ] Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions [moxymonkey@aol.com (MoxyMonkey)] Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! [melinda klump ] Interesting article - "Syracuse New Times" [Shilfiell ] Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! [wildbill ] Re: (Dinner Reservations) Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions [Chad Maloney ] Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! [richardbutterworth@my-deja.com] Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! [Melinda Klump ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 03:35:20 GMT From: Anna! Subject: Re: Rochester Underage Fruhead Warning: In article <398A1E4D.9C323FB0@rit.Spam.is.a.four.letter.word.edu>, Paul Mischler wrote: > what I'm saying is that not making > that charge know until it is too late is unfair. *shrug* that's capitalism for ya. don't like it? find a small island and build your own country. for two bucks, who really cares? i know, i know, it's the principle of the matter, right? but some things, you just learn to overlook. not to sound completely apathetic, but i'm sure there are plenty of other things to get upset over. - -anna- http://elements.dreamhost.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:05:34 GMT From: fruomffan@diganet.com (Cara Kozack) Subject: Spice Girls on Speed singing Michy.. Well I may have chose the subject for shock value but it's all because ofmy attempt to try to make When She Talks more enjoyable for myself. So I recorded it onto tape and played it at double speed!! All I can say is that it sounds like an 80's dance hit played by the Chipmunks :) Then I remembered that I had nearly all my CD"s on tape so I played some other Fru songs. Here are some of the more memorable ones... * Horseshoes - Very cool, and yet it sounds like a pop hit from this day and age!! I mean you just feel like dancing to it, like almost any other frusong! * Fly - absolutely haunting, I mean truely. If it was sung at normal speed and had that tempo...it would move everyone in the world. * Bittersweet - the background percussion makes it sound like Don't Worry, Be Happy, which give an overall tone of a very biting, saterical song. * I Will Hold On - this was about the only song that was not tolerable at all on high speeds. The tone was much too high for my ears and was not pleasing at all. * Johnny Saucep'n - ummm...gibberish anyone? * LN version of MBLABOA - the drum solo at the beginning sounds like a marching band song! I had a half a mind to go marching around my room (which left the other quarter of my brain left to make the inferance) :) * Michigan Milita - see the title * Present Tense Tureen - Very countryish, it actually sounds more serious at high speeds. * Organ Grinder - whowhee!! When I could understand it, it sounded much more countrish. * Sad Today - I didn't really notice this until the end, but the claranet made it sound like circus music! * Quite a few of the rest - well my brother commented that "Besides for the stupid words, that makes the music sound sane" [1]. I can only infer that he meant Fruvous...maybe all it will take for fruvous to really make the big time is to play their songs an octave higher and at double time!! Also, frumoment...I was catalouging cards [2] in the library today so I was of course thinking of the fact that I will finally get to see the lads in a week, and that I will *finally* get to get C. Then what subject card should I come across but LESTER B. PEARSON -- BIOGRAPHY. Coincidence? I think not. As I was typing this out the first time (computers- stupid idiots of a dumb thing), I realized that in the intro song to C, the reference Lester B. Pearson would be most likely referring to the airport, and not the prime minister. It would make a lot more sense considering airports are VERY fun (or a miserable experience if you prefer the saterical approach). - -- Cara Kozack It's a reference to a _____ that you've never even heard of by\in\on a _____ that you probably don't even like! fruomffan@diganet.com www.crosswinds.net/~fruomffan ICQ: 56416421 [1] As you can tell my brother doesn't like Fruvous very much [3] [2] Yes our library is old fashioned. [3] My first footnote deserves another! Cheers! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 04:03:08 GMT From: Larry Dietrich Subject: Syracuse show and aftermath Hello, all. Three points -- two very short, and one longer. First, I missed all that led up to the whole matter related to Gella and Jian. And I hadn't visited the newsgroup in a while, even to lurk, so my only knowledge of the situation is through the follow-up posts.....a little like knowing of an elemental particle by the trail it leaves in a gas chamber. But I just read Gella's latest post, and I have to say this: She (he?) sure seems like a thoughtful, reflective, rational person. She made more sense in that post than just about any one I've seen, on either side. Second, here is the official, CBS promotional copy sent to newspapers throughout this great continent of ours, for CBS Sunday Morning this coming Sunday (Aug. 6). It came in a list of the stories that will air: MUSIC: MOXY FRUVOUS There's a Canadian song group whose versatile genre can switch from hard rock to Beatles-type harmonies. Correspondent Rita Braver profiles Moxy Fruvous and shows how their versatility has generated so many fans. Finally, please bear with me while I describe what followed the Syracuse show. I offer it not as something unique, perhaps not even so remarkable, but something I suspect we'll all take a little pleasure in: I've been a Fruvous fan since late '98. Not so long, I guess. I was thrilled to learn in late June that the band had scheduled a concert in Syracuse in late July. I was worried that my wife -- who enjoys the band, but is not quite as enthusiastic as I -- would balk, but she was excited about going to the show. But, we had an event planned earlier in the day, a get-together with some of my friends through work. Earlier this year, one had expressed interest in a CD I was listening to there -- "Live Noise" -- and had borrowed it at work and sort of liked it. I asked if he and his wife would like to join us, after our afternoon barbecue, at the show. He and his wife were eager to go out, so he said yes. Let's call the husband "A" and the wife "B." And, his brother ("C") and his wife ("D") would join us. Then, just before I bought the tickets, the brothers' sister and her husband announced a shopping trip to Syracuse, and THEY ("E" and "F") joined us. Six Fruvirgins. Well, the show was great. When I went to work Monday, "A" was telling everyone in the department in which he worked what a great show it was. His clan had actually left a little early, and he had emailed me Sunday to say that he and his wife enjoyed the show so much, they bought "Live Noise" on the way out. Now he was saying that "B" had scarfed up the CD and was playing it during her commute to work. He raved about the show to his colleagues, repeating the banter, and said they'd certainly want to go see the band again. I brought in the rest of the band's CDs, so "A" could decide which he might like to get. For most bands, he said he finds, he's interested in buying maybe half of the CDs available. He said after each CD he heard, he thought, "Yeah, I'd get that." He had already ordered "Thornhill." Meanwhile, he was infecting the department. One of his colleagues ("G") is a musician. After listening to "You Will Go to the Moon," he said he'd like to go see Fruvous next time they're in town. Another ("H") listened to my CDs and asked me if I'd tape a couple for her. While all this was going on, "C" had called his sister-in-law, "B." "C" is best man at a wedding next month, and wanted her to track down a song from the show ("I Will Hold On") because he wanted to suggest it to the betrothed couple for their first dance. "B" herself has continued to play "Live Noise" on the commute -- four times a day, twice going, twice coming. Today, "A" told me she emailed the band last night to tell them how much she liked the show. She knows all the lyrics to all of "Live Noise." She's jealous of "A" for listening to all my CDs at work. "A" is going to borrow some of them this weekend to take home, so he can get "Live Noise" away from her and try to quell her obsession. So that's it. Six Fruvirgins. One show. Two of them ("A" and "B") profoundly hooked, and pulling in two more ("G' and "H"). One other ("C") acting hooked, and maybe pulling in another one or two (the unlabeled wedding couple). No word yet on "D," "E" or "F," although it seems likely that if "C" is hooked, "D" must be, too. The thing is, Fruvous seems to be particularly effective not just at attracting people who enjoy their music and stage antics, but who are downright evangelical about enlisting others. For the record, BTW, some of these people ARE "Star Trek" fans, but I've never seen any of them in a uniform, and they didn't wear pocket protectors to the show. For those of you who hung in to the end, hope you enjoyed the tale. Lar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 00:01:23 -0400 From: MJ Subject: Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions SugarFly26@aol.com wrote: > < should we expect this much from Fruvous? Well, after spending $120-ish on > them, maybe we should. But we (and the performers) don't; those are the > facts.>> > > Huh? ... If you're saying after spending $120-ish on a band... [that] they > should probably be more Fruvous-like, I disagree.... a band with a lot of fans > would have > a really hard time hanging around after a show... because there *are* so many > fans...the only responsibility they [the band] has to you is to... put on that > concert that > you paid for. > > ------------> Ln Well, actually, I meant it in a broader way, I guess, on the aspects of "celebrity." For example, a lot of Hollywood actors and actresses complain about their lack of privacy today, but personally, I don't think there's anything unfair about it unless they put someone's life at risk-- I personally think that when someone's out to make it big with a huge multi-million dollar salary, they know that the paparazzi is included in the deal. *shrug*. And another point would be that without all us drooling fans, they wouldn't get all the moolah that they do. Honestly, do you think it's fair that our celebrities earn *so much more* than the average worker who will probably make a larger contribution to society in the long run? Of course, most music artists today aren't multimillionaires, regardless of how long they've stayed on that Top 40 chart. But again, as I said in my previous post, I'm sort of on both sides of the line in terms of feeling entitled to something more than just a show, perhaps. I'm not saying that I'm justified or anything on feeling this way, I just do (before I get a bunch of posts on how it's unfair to the performers to expect that much of them, blah, blah, blah). Just because there are a lot of fans, doesn't mean it's impossible to do some form of interaction with them. There's always autograph lines, and the like; it's really simply going out of your way for your fans. It may be a logistical nightmare to the bands' agents/security, but it's sure not impossible. OK, I'm not coherent again... I gotta stop posting at 12am. *sigh* ~MJ ------------------------------ Date: 04 Aug 2000 05:18:39 GMT From: limezinger@aol.complicates (sonic death monkey) Subject: Re: Rochester Underage Fruhead Warning: >I've checked the advertising for the show on: >*WBER (air ads) >*WBER's Web Page >*Milestone's Web Page >*Milestone's Ads in paper > >I didn't notice any warnings in any of these places. > >And here's the real kicker: All the tickets say "No Refunds/No >Exchanges." so do they actually turn people away if they don't have $2 in their pockets? i've never actually observed that happening. hmm.. just one of those things, i suppose.. good warning, though. sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://brazen.org/starcookie/ "look it up on the web, kids!" - andy "no kids. don't." - conan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 05:07:34 GMT From: ACW Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! In article <20000803233607.19652.00000026@ng-fw1.aol.com>, jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) wrote: > as much as i hate to perpetuate this.... I'm not here to perpetuate, nor even to comment on the latest discussion, but I have a little point about group dynamics. When you make a statement online--be it fact, opinion or observation-- you lay it out there for anybody who cares to read it. What you *meant* ceases to be important once you've posted, it's now up to your readers to react and respond. When you have to go back and say "That's not what I meant!" it means you've been caught in an unclear moment. It happens to everybody. "Appropriate" is a loaded word. Gella posted some very personal thoughts, even knowing the tenor of this group, then a lot of people got upset when all hell broke loose. I'm saying, say whatever you want, but be prepared to handle the reactions of others gracefully; I'm saying choose your words carefully and watch the way you express yourself. For what it's worth, when I read Gella's post I assumed "blown off" meant that he didn't talk to her at all; the explanation showed that wasn't the case. It's none of my business what Gella's motivation might have been for choosing to focus on that moment, but I can't blame the rest of the group for wondering. Anyway, this has been interesting. - --Amanda Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: 04 Aug 2000 07:51:28 GMT From: moxymonkey@aol.com (MoxyMonkey) Subject: Re: Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions My 11 cents: I probably am going to tick alot of people off by adding another message to this thread. The way I feel about this entire situation is that it is just who Jian is. The past two festivals I have gone to see the boys at , Ive gotten the same response. Though all four members know me pretty well, it always seems that Jian is always the one who something...hmmmmm....off color.....to say. But Ive not taken it to heart, nor should anything they do be taken *that* seriously. Jian, Mike, Dave, and Murray live the life of the road for long streaches at a time. For them to come out after the show, or do a signing should not be seen as an obligation on their part. Take what happens in stride. They are doing a damn good job of trying to please as many people ahey can. jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:04:18 -0400 From: melinda klump Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! i really don't want to get caught up in the more violent areas of this argument, but amanda, you seem to be fairly calm about all this, so i hope you won't mind if i respond to your post in order to point out one small thing that i feel has been largely ignored. > I'm saying, say whatever you want, but be prepared to handle the > reactions of others gracefully; I'm saying choose your words carefully > and watch the way you express yourself. actually, i think gella chose her words very carefully, both in her original post, and in her later responses. i don't think that a lot of people READ them very carefully. there seemed to be a lot of jumping to really out-of-proportion conclusions. > > For what it's worth, when I read Gella's post I assumed "blown off" > meant that he didn't talk to her at all; the explanation showed that > wasn't the case. It's none of my business what Gella's motivation might > have been for choosing to focus on that moment, but I can't blame the > rest of the group for wondering. the one small point i'd like to make here is that her exact words were "semi-blowing me off". the "semi" part of that seems to have been ignored all the way around, and yet that's what initially tipped me off to it really not having been that big of a deal. how that tiny statement got so huge, especially as it was surrounded by a post full of much more compelling thoughts, i will never understand. > > Anyway, this has been interesting. agreed. :) > melinda ps: gella, i think you rock. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:36:42 GMT From: Shilfiell Subject: Interesting article - "Syracuse New Times" Brought to my attention by a Syracuse denizen: http://newtimes.rway.com/2000/072600/music.shtml An interesting article. The author does eventually get around to discussing the music, but the beginning of the article focuses on Früheads and their obsession with the band. It's 5:30 now and I'm not yet lucid enough to describe it: you may wish to read it yourself. - -kimberly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:21:01 -0400 From: Paul Baker Subject: Re: CBS Sunday Morning My thoughts EXACTLY! =) Bodaceah wrote: > I was got one of those too, which i was going to post if you hadn't already. I > just wanted to say i thought it was really cool that they took the time to > remembered my inquiry and send along a reply. > > jude > "Like my father,I have committed small suicides daily. Not going to the heart > of all I feel, I have erased my real presence, sexuality, intelligence from > language and expression" > Susan Griffin "Chorus of Stones" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:45:13 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! wildbill wrote: See what I mean. Bill just posted basically the same thing I just said (except he did it in his own Evil way) :) > P.S. What I really don't understand is why Gella kept head- > butting me at FRFF? Not that I really minded, just was > wondering if there was a deeper significant. Because she's short? :) A.J. (wondering if he can start a flame war over Gella's height) - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | ICQ: 13117113 \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com AIM: locicero ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:27:23 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! melinda klump wrote: > actually, i think gella chose her words very carefully, both in her original > post, and in her later responses. i don't think that a lot of people READ > them very carefully. there seemed to be a lot of jumping to really > out-of-proportion conclusions. To some extent yes. But moreover a lot of people were simply not responding to Gella at all. Others just assumed that they were. Basically the thread went off in a new direction almost right away. It was spurred by a comment that Gella made but it was not really about what Gella said. It was more about a feeling that I think has been building in some quarters for some time that some people (not Gella) are a little overly obsessive about the members of Fruvous and lack some real world perspective. This was NOT in reply to any specific post. Many of the people I'm alluding to may not even post here, but we've all seen them at shows etc. > > For what it's worth, when I read Gella's post I assumed "blown off" > > meant that he didn't talk to her at all; the explanation showed that > > wasn't the case. It's none of my business what Gella's motivation might > > have been for choosing to focus on that moment, but I can't blame the > > rest of the group for wondering. > > the one small point i'd like to make here is that her exact words were > "semi-blowing me off". the "semi" part of that seems to have been ignored > all the way around, and yet that's what initially tipped me off to it really > not having been that big of a deal. how that tiny statement got so huge, > especially as it was surrounded by a post full of much more compelling > thoughts, i will never understand. We have ALL been semi-blown off by Jian at one time or another. That is not an implication that he owes us something. It is just a fact. Gella was not complaining about it. It was a memory. She was musing about how she would no longer be experiencing frushows for a while and remembering some of the aspects good and not so good. It totally followed her on that, but I'm not sure everyone else did. A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | ICQ: 13117113 \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com AIM: locicero ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 06:16:42 -0700 From: wildbill Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! here we go again.... not to pick a fight or anything.... >the one small point i'd like to make here is that her exact >words were "semi-blowing me off". the "semi" part of that >seems to have been ignored all the way around, and yet that's >what initially tipped me off to it really not having been that >big of a deal. how that tiny statement got so huge, >especially as it was surrounded by a post full of much more >compelling thoughts, i will never understand. Allow me to put a little perspective on this. First, if this wasn't that big of a deal, why would you post it on a newsgroup in the first place? The first rule of public posting is that whatever you write on a newsgroup is going to be read (and maybe not read very carefully) by MANY people. Each person is going to take what you've written in a different context and will probably focus on different things. If I had a dollar for every time I have read someone saying that they are a "friend of the band" or some mindless drivel about someone who felt like they had been slighted because some member didn't do X, I would be pretty rich. That having been said, I have largely stayed out of this because I don't care about whether or not Gella felt like she was being blown off or not, or whether or not she felt like she is/was being misunderstood. Misunderstandings happen in life and not to beat a dead horse, life is unfair and you either get over it or not (I personally choose getting over it since it does no good to worry about things you really can't control). I will tell you this, the tread wasn't about gella per se although she did spark it. It was about people who feel a distorted and unwarrented connection to the band. The people responding were not mean just simplying saying "perspective is a good idea(tm)". I.E. it is a band it is not your dog or your parents and in most cases, your friends. Without going into a huge ramble about how much I have hated this newsgroup since it became mired in trivial posts about dreams and moments and how the side walk crack resembled jian so I made a plaster mold of it and made a shrine which I pray to 5 x a day... (oops, looks like I did it again). This has been a refreshing change. The real misunderstanding and I will never for the life of me figure out why people have tended to focus on it, was that this was about Gella in particular. Anyways, I've said my peace. "wild" Bill (I only have a shrine to Richard cause he is such a hunk a-hunk of buring love) P.S. What I really don't understand is why Gella kept head- butting me at FRFF? Not that I really minded, just was wondering if there was a deeper significant. - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:09:37 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Mostly OT: Budgies Wildcat wrote: > > UNSUSCRIBE [..] PLEASE See Richard. ALL CAPS now. UG-LY. Beware. Not even you can expect what's next. The evil deviants out there concoct all sorts of evil things for you. They have free will and come from any direction. Oh damn, they don't really have free will because that doesn't exist. I... uh... I have to go now. - Chad (pardon the edit) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:06:24 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: (Dinner Reservations) Ghosts of Fruvous; obsessions Wildcat wrote: > > unsubscribe please I think the wildcat is talking to you, Richard. Unsubscribe now please. Your utter wrongness in the Determinism vs Free Will debate has made you a marked man and even people I've never heard of are asking for your "resignation". Give it up, Brit. It's only going to get uglier from here on out. And I mean UGLY. Not some sort of faux-ugly where people can't handle rational discussion. I mean *really* ug-ly. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:45:04 -0400 From: Melinda Klump Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! > We have ALL been semi-blown off by Jian at one time or another. That is > not an implication that he owes us something. It is just a fact. Gella > was not complaining about it. It was a memory. She was musing about > how she would no longer be experiencing frushows for a while and > remembering some of the aspects good and not so good. It totally > followed her on that, but I'm not sure everyone else did. > > A.J. AMEN. that's all she's been trying to clarify this whole time, it seems to me. > To some extent yes. But moreover a lot of people were simply not > responding to Gella at all. Others just assumed that they were. > Basically the thread went off in a new direction almost right away. It > was spurred by a comment that Gella made but it was not really about > what Gella said. It was more about a feeling that I think has been > building in some quarters for some time that some people (not Gella) are > a little overly obsessive about the members of Fruvous and lack some > real world perspective. This was NOT in reply to any specific post. > Many of the people I'm alluding to may not even post here, but we've all > seen them at shows etc. i think most of the people who responded were, in fact, not responding to gella's post (i don't think they'd all even read it), but somehow all that stuff got attributed to her, anyway. you and i both know that gella does not have a scary sort of obsession going on. - -- Melinda Klump Tekserve 212-929-3645 x426 melinda@tekserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 14:45:28 GMT From: richardbutterworth@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! In article <26aaaf98.d498745c@usw-ex0104-087.remarq.com>, wildbill wrote: > "wild" Bill (I only have a shrine to Richard cause he is such a > hunk a-hunk of buring love) Great Snakes, but you're fickle one, Billiam. First you don't want a hug from me, then you set up a shrine. What next? Not returning my calls? Posting me back the llama poo I sent you for your birthday? What *is* a girl to do? Alright, seriously for a moment. I haven't really posted into this because it did seem to be a teensy bit out of hand occasionally, and the last thing it wanted was me placing a big oar in and waggling vigorously. But this really worried me: newsgroups should not be used as a substitute for therapy. This is not a support group, or if it *is* its a very, very bad one. Just as it very easy to get into really stupid and overheated arguments on the net, it is also very easy to get into apparently deep friendships, that for all the world feel like the real thing, but actually when it comes to it are just faint shadows of what real friendships are. So perspective is required, and that's all that most people have been asking for. You may feel completely loved in a newsgroup, but stop posting for a couple of months and everyone will forget who you are. That's not a reflection on you, its just the way that newsgroups act, and an indication of the sort of freindships that get made on newsgroups. I'm sure Chad won't mind me using this as an example, but I love Chad's posts and replying to them and warping ourselves into ever deeper fantasy. But I've met Chad I think twice and it was a case of (from memory) `Hello! You're Chad!' `Hi! You're Richard!' `How are you?' `Fine! You?' `Great. Good-o!' (End of conversation). I don't have a problem with this and I'd be very surprised if Chad does either. Don't get me wrong, I've met some truly lovely people on this newsgroup who have been kinder to me in real life than I ever deserve. But that's where *real* value lies, in *real* friendships that have maybe been sparked on the net, but formed in the real world. I could very easily send `I love you' emails to eveyone on this group and really, it means bugger all, unless I'm willing to sit and hold your hand as you sit on my sofa and bawl your eyes out at 3am. No offense, but I'm not really willing to do that for very many of you, and I'd be surprised if any of you were willing to do it for me either. Right. Back to the comedy. Yours honestly, etc, Richard Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:33:52 -0400 From: Melinda Klump Subject: Re: Kill the ghosts. DIE! DIE! > here we go again.... not to pick a fight or anything.... > > Allow me to put a little perspective on this. First, if this > wasn't that big of a deal, why would you post it on a newsgroup > in the first place? The first rule of public posting is that > whatever you write on a newsgroup is going to be read (and maybe > not read very carefully) by MANY people. awww man, bill, did you have to do that? sigh... you're still missing my point. that sentence was soooo little. gella's original post itself was about something much larger, and indeed a big deal. it's just that the tiny piece that was pulled out of it and made so gigantic was not. also the thing i wrote that you are responding to, was in response to someone else saying that one has to choose one's words very carefully, and i was just trying to point out that actually, she HAD chosen them carefully, but that it had not mattered. for some real perspective, go back and read the original post and see how tiny that one little sentence was, and what the post was actually about, which was certainly an issue of some importance to her. > Each person is going > to take what you've written in a different context and will > probably focus on different things. If I had a dollar for every > time I have read someone saying that they are a "friend of the > band" or some mindless drivel about someone who felt like they > had been slighted because some member didn't do X, I would be > pretty rich. That having been said, I have largely stayed out > of this because I don't care about whether or not Gella felt > like she was being blown off or not, or whether or not she felt > like she is/was being misunderstood. Misunderstandings happen > in life and not to beat a dead horse, life is unfair and you > either get over it or not (I personally choose getting over it > since it does no good to worry about things you really can't > control). I will tell you this, the tread wasn't about gella > per se although she did spark it. It was about people who feel > a distorted and unwarrented connection to the band. The people > responding were not mean just simplying saying "perspective is a > good idea(tm)". I.E. it is a band it is not your dog or your > parents and in most cases, your friends. also, i agree that the thread ended up not being about gella or what she had actually said, but much has been attributed to her that she never said, including anything about the band being her friends or her feeling slighted in any way. i don't know why i'm bothering, since she said this quite eloquently herself (and with much more detail) in her last post, but since this is the first time someone has actually responded to something i've said, i feel that i must clarify. misunderstandings do happen, and probably cannot be helped, but i don't see why people shouldn't try to clarify in that event. i think gella has, actually, gotten over it for the most part, and yet the debate continues... > Without going into a huge ramble about how much I have hated > this newsgroup since it became mired in trivial posts about > dreams and moments and how the side walk crack resembled jian so > I made a plaster mold of it and made a shrine which I pray to 5 > x a day... (oops, looks like I did it again). This has been a > refreshing change. on this we agree. i just wish it could have happened without hurting gella at all. she has one of the most true and sincere hearts i've ever known. i don't know... i'm not trying to fight with you, bill. i think you're a great guy, and i certainly have no desire for bad feeling between us. i, too, am just trying to put things in perspective. melinda > ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #335 ********************************************