From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #316 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Friday, July 28 2000 Volume 04 : Number 316 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Has Jian seen this? ["KatieWow" ] OT: Re Canadian smarties [Frances Fox ] Re: cute fru moment [Ellen ] Re: cute fru moment [Super Dave ] Re: Has Jian seen this? [Maggie ] Re: What Phrase [JaciTheLurker ] Re: cute fru moment [wildbill ] Re: Top 5 Fruvous Songs [dead@thwip.polyamory.org, from@thwip.polyamory.o] Re: new apparel? [Paul Mischler ] Re: cute fru moment [Super Dave ] Re: cute fru moment [Ellen ] Re: What Phrase ["Chris K @*_*@" ] Re: What Phrase ["Chris K @*_*@" ] Re: cute fru moment [wildbill ] Re: cute fru moment ["Chris K @*_*@" ] Re: new apparel? [StarflashJ@aol.com] Re: Hidden camera follows teenage girl on date [Lori Martin Subject: Has Jian seen this? http://www.guster.com/news Yes, corporate hegemony strikes again - and this time at our beloved former-Früvous-openers Guster. - --Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:43:06 +0100 From: Frances Fox Subject: OT: Re Canadian smarties OK, my memory has gone (as have the backlogged ammf digests)- who was it desperately in search of Canadian Smarties? Frances ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:12:56 -0700 From: Ellen Subject: Re: cute fru moment wildbill wrote: > >Okay, here is where I am going to clarify... I have the right to >my own opinion. I think Brittany Spears and their dervitatives >are crap. Plain and simple. I will probably believe that until >the cows come home (*and anyone in the know, knows that the cows >reside in Erie, PA*). Whether or not you believe that is >completely irrelevant to me. As long as I'm not stopping you >from listening to Brittany Spears, there shouldn't be an issue. the issue is as follows: what you think is not law. when you say, "this is crap," you imply that it's not worthy of your respect. so if i give it mine, i must be an idiot, right? or have less refined tastes than yours. that's what's at stake here. when you declare something to be bad, you say something about everyone that likes it. i don't like any of what you're calling crap, either. but if i say, "that music sucks," i am insulting anyone who does like it. > You think their music is >great, I think their music is bad. Its kind of what makes me, me >and you, you; differences in opinions. and we're quickly sliding into the world of semantics here, but... i think you know that i do not mean to say we should all think the same thing. what i am saying is, it's fine to say, "i don't like that; it does nothing for me." but "it's bad" is something that you're not qualified to say. the semantics part comes into play when you say, "it's crap" vs. "i think it's crap." but the former is a very different thing to say than the latter. >exactly, you said I don't appreciate your opinion on the subject >and lets drop it. i.e. lets agree to disagree. no-- i said, "you have no more right to call fruvous crap than all those others have to call the dead crap." and he didn't answer. >Ahhh.. but you see, fruvous does play its own instraments and >writes its own songs. Now if fruvous didn't do that, if all they >did was do cover tunes and had to have someone program their >movements, point taken (yours and super dave's), but my point was, it's all relative. what you're calling crap when one person does it is ok when another person does it, just because they do other stuff too. so suppose the backstreet boys played their own instruments, too. you really think you'd like them any better? peace, ellen - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:00:28 -0500 From: Super Dave Subject: Re: cute fru moment On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Ellen wrote: >wildbill wrote: >> >the issue is as follows: what you think is not law. when you >say, "this is crap," you imply that it's not worthy of your >respect. Exactly. >so if i give it mine, i must be an idiot, right? Not exactly. You would never be an idiot for liking bad music. Maybe bad taste. But not an idiot. that's what's at stake >here. >when you declare something to be bad, you say something about >everyone that likes it. Yes, you are right. But anything you say that someone doesn't agree with is like putting that person's opinion down. But we can't go into depression because another person doesn't like the music we like. >i don't like any of what you're calling crap, either. but if i >say, "that music sucks," i am insulting anyone who does like it. I don't know how to get out of this particular situation. I mean, if I don't like something, I will say it. And I will give reasons why I don't like that something. If the person takes my opinion about some of his or her tastes as an insult, that person needs to lighten up and realize that this was not the point at all. When a person says something sucks without giving reasons, then there is reason to believe that I am insulting that person. >i think you know that i do not mean to say we should all think >the same thing. what i am saying is, it's fine to say, "i don't like >that; it does nothing for me." but "it's bad" is something that >you're not qualified to say. I think I'm very qualified to say if I think something is bad. It is my opinion -- it's something I know quite a bit about. >the semantics part comes into play when you say, "it's crap" vs. >"i think it's crap." but the former is a very different thing to >say than the latter. Well...this is really the same statement. Just about everything you say is your opinion -- there really are no "facts" per se in this world. For example, if I were to say "Gravity is the reason a ball moves down slope", I would really be saying that "I think or believe that gravity is the reason a ball moves down a slope." It really is all opinion. Some opinions are more verified than others, but it still is opinion. >point taken (yours and super dave's), but my point was, it's all >relative. what you're calling crap when one person does it is ok >when another person does it, just because they do other stuff >too. >so suppose the backstreet boys played their own instruments, too. >you really think you'd like them any better? I might not like them better, but I would respect them a little bit more. My argument about the Backstreet Boys, et al., is that they are not musicians because all they do is perform. There are many, many musicians who I do not like, but at least I respect them. But it does tell me something about a person when they tell me they dig Brittany or N'Sync -- it tells me that they are easily swayed people, that the media has a strong influence on them. Personally, I'd much rather meet people who are independent, free thinkers, even if they like musicians whom I don't like. I say these groups are crap because they pose as musicians, deceiving the public, when, in reality, they exist only as puppets in the hands of money-grubbing producers. I want people to realize that there are better music and real musicians out there. David - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "We must love each other or die." --W. H. Auden "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." --Mahatma Gandhi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:51:29 -0700 From: Maggie Subject: Re: Has Jian seen this? yay guster!! although, i must admit, i kinda wanna go out and buy myself a new oldsmobile... maybe 2!! ~M~ "Fr˙fffffc - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:46:46 -0700 From: JaciTheLurker Subject: Re: What Phrase >In Exhibit A for "never get someone whose first language isn't English >to write your songs" we have: > >As time goes by you will get to know me a little more better > >(from "I'll Never Break Your Heart", performed by the Backstreet Boys) yay! now i have an excuse to share my favorite line from the spice girls: "you're throwing far too much emotions at me" methinks that is from "say you'll be there" off of their debut album _spice_. *bow* jaci, who has survived roommates obsessed with the spice girls AND britney spears. though _spice world_ was an entertaining flick *ducks* Go Me! http://homepages.go.com/~janestclair1978/index.html - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:08:38 -0700 From: wildbill Subject: Re: cute fru moment >the issue is as follows: what you think is not law. when you >say, "this is crap," you imply that it's not worthy of your >respect. so if i give it mine, i must be an idiot, right? or >have less refined tastes than yours. that's what's at stake >here. >when you declare something to be bad, you say something about >everyone that likes it. I think you're drawing this out to an absurd conclusion but I'll run with it. Lets just say that I judge all people based on what music they listen to then, yes, if I say that something 'is crap' then I am making a statement upon you as a person and this would actually have some significance. But since I have no power over your life or the opinions of others around you, this signficance is personal only to me. But lucky for some, I don't judge people based on their music taste alone and certainly not on the likes of just one band or even a whole genre of music so what I say about you when I say 'boy bands blow' and you happen to be a boy band follower is a relatively small nick upon you when it comes to whether or not I would consider you as a prospective date in the future. But there is certainly more to people than what they listen to or what they wear or how they talk or ... name your favorite attribute. >i don't like any of what you're calling crap, either. but if i >say, "that music sucks," i am insulting anyone who does like it. You are only insulting anyone who does listen to it if they actually take it as an insult. Its like the person who stands up and says "the color green sucks". Only those who actually give a shit get offended. I just blow it off as your opinion and not mine. So, if I say 'the dead sucks', you have two options, you can either argue with me or just accept it as my uninformed opinion and go along your merry way. >and we're quickly sliding into the world of semantics here, >but... i think you know that i do not mean to say we should >all think the same thing. what i am saying is, it's fine to >say, "i don't like that; it does nothing for me." but >"it's bad" is something that you're not qualified to say. I'm going to get argumentative here, but its been obvious to me at least that this is my opinion and that I am pretty much the only person that is qualified to make my opinions. Statements like "it's bad" or "it's evil" are opinions since there is no real fact to them. If there was a scientific way of proving something was infact 'bad' then there would be someone that is qualified to say it (of course after a rigerous study). So, by saying 'it's bad' I am automatically stating my opinion on the subject. Anyone who thinks otherwise is reading into what I am saying (which may be the point, at which point I would say, sucks to be you - which you could then argue as being an insult and I would probably at that point say 'yes'). In general I tend to avoid such labels but I'm playing devil's advocate at the moment. Now, I could attempt to back up what I am saying with some statistics like "1 out of every 1 person in my office thinks that brittany spears is horrible" and that wouldn't make it something that I am any more 'qualified' than the next person to say. >the semantics part comes into play when you say, "it's crap" vs. >"i think it's crap." but the former is a very different thing >to say than the latter. But of course, but since I don't want to keep repeating myself over and over, by saying "it's crap" its quite obvious that someone is expressing their opinion and not making a final decision over whether or not you're going to listen to it. Now, if I were the leader of the entire universe or was a record company that controlled the radio lets just say, then my opinion would hold a lot of weight. Since Brittany Spears (whom will be lovingly referred to as BS from now on) is not someone that I like, you probably wouldn't hear much of her. >no-- i said, "you have no more right to call fruvous crap than >all those others have to call the dead crap." and he didn't >answer. ahhh.. see I have no problem with people calling my music crap, so I would have no problem there. but I could see where people with thin skin might have a problem with me stating their their favorite band sucks, even if they do. >point taken (yours and super dave's), but my point was, it's all >relative. what you're calling crap when one person does it is >ok when another person does it, just because they do other stuff >too. so suppose the backstreet boys played their own >instruments, too. you really think you'd like them any better? Hmmm... I would have to hear them. I think matchbox 20 sucks and they play their own instraments and write their own songs. I might respect them more as artists and not as performers. But the backstreet boys don't play their own instraments... and matchbox 20 still sucks in my opinion, even if I thought that 'smooth' song was pretty cool until I heard it 15 billion times. thumb wrestle? "wild" Bill - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:38:12 GMT From: dead@thwip.polyamory.org, from@thwip.polyamory.org, the@thwip.polyamory.org, neck@thwip.polyamory.org, up@home.com (DeadHead) Subject: Re: Top 5 Fruvous Songs On 24 Jul 2000 03:47:47 GMT, emaphlegma@aol.com (Emaphlegma) pondered for a while, and then wrote: >Does anyone have any top 5 fruvous songs? Hmmm... (in no particular order) Independence Day Sahara Green Eggs & Ham Fly Drinking Song (with Honorable Mention to 'Mistra Know-It-All' - from one of the best albums ever recorded..everyone should pick it up.. Stevie Wonder - "Innervisions" - -Tim "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats." - -Water Rat, from 'The Wind In The Willows' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:48:54 -0400 From: Paul Mischler Subject: Re: new apparel? They also have a 'C' Poster. It's the yellowish gold 'C' on a gold backdrop with the script Moxy Fruvous (from the C album cover) beneath it. It also sports 'www.fruvous.com' in tiny letters at the bottom, and little budgies with big heads in the lower corners. I'd suggest you bring a poster tube with you to the concert :-) - -Paul Mischler Remove the obvious .spam.me.and.die to reply. LunaB1219 wrote: > I was wondering if anyone saw a show were they had some of the new > merchandise? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:40:00 -0500 From: Super Dave Subject: Re: cute fru moment On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, Nafs wrote: >Super Dave wrote: >> Backstreet Boys et al., don't >> write any of their own music, they don't play any instruments, and they >> have no connection to their music whatsoever. They get paid to perform >> (notice that I didn't say sing) -- they are performers, nothing else. > >That's a huge judgement call. To claim that an artist (and yes I am >going to apply 'artist' to "Backstreet Boys et al.") has no connection >to their music is... I'm sorry but have you developed telepathy? Well, I know that a person who has written a song has a much stronger connection to the song then a person who just sings one. I'm in a collegiate a cappella group, and I do admit that that I do develop attachments to many of the cover songs we sing (we've arranged them, but not written them), but I can't imagine my having as great an attraction to those songs then the original writers of those songs. So maybe I should rephrase my statement. Maybe the Backstreet Boys, et al do have some connection to the music they sing. That connection may involve dollar signs. But maybe they have a connection, nonetheless. David - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "We must love each other or die." --W. H. Auden "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." --Mahatma Gandhi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:48:28 -0700 From: Ellen Subject: Re: cute fru moment i'm really responding to both bill and superdave (since they're saying pretty much the same thing), but i picked bill's post to reply to so that i could make silly jokes at the end. wildbill wrote: >You are only insulting anyone who does listen to it if they >actually take it as an insult. Its like the person who stands > up and says "the color green sucks". Only those who actually > give a shit get offended. true. good point. and obviously, you're qualified to state your own opinion. what i was trying to say is just that i find musical taste really subjective, and when you say, "this sucks/ this is bad," what i hear is a statement of opinion as it if were fact. which it's not. >even if I thought that >'smooth' song was pretty cool until I heard it 15 billion times. it's the santana influence. ;) >thumb wrestle? i'll have to warn you that i was trained by a master. these thumbs are registered with the CIA. peace, ellen - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:21:46 GMT From: "Chris K @*_*@" Subject: Re: What Phrase Adam Hartfield wrote: > >wildbill wrote: > > > > I know that I will probably be beating a dead horse with this, > > but the entire song of "when she talks" makes me cringe . When > > I'm playing thornhil, I start to shake violently when this song > > comes on and don't stop doing so until I have hit the forward > > button. > > I find that singing along as Big Bird or Kermit The Frog helps me to > tolerate the song. Do you have an mp3 of this before Napster shuts down tonight to share with us? I would *love* to hear you sing Adam. Maybe you can perform it at a Folk Festival some day. Now *that* would be "on the edge." ;D Christine. *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* - --Diet soda? - --No thanks. FREAKED!!!! - --Fiddle Faddle? Elijah to Ricky - --Alright...delicious. 1993 *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:26:20 GMT From: "Chris K @*_*@" Subject: Re: What Phrase Katherine Maheux wrote: > Oooh! Here's my chance to post my beef about Cheap Trick to a whole > newsgroup of people who don't care! > > OK. People, try to top this. Is there ANY lyric in the world more > brain-numbingly moronic than... > > "I want you to want me... I need you to need me... I'd love you to love > me..." o/~ Didn't I, didn't I, didn't I see you crying? o/~ And the lyrics are right here in case anyone has trouble figuring them out: http://www.cheaptrick.com/towantme.html Thanks Kath for earworming me with that song. Are you commenting on my record collection now? You found my 45, didn't you? ;D o/~ This is planet earth bop b'bop b'bop bop b'bop o/~ Christine. *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* - --Diet soda? - --No thanks. FREAKED!!!! - --Fiddle Faddle? Elijah to Ricky - --Alright...delicious. 1993 *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:07:39 -0700 From: wildbill Subject: Re: cute fru moment Ellen wrote: >i'm really responding to both bill and superdave (since they're >saying pretty much the same thing), but i picked bill's post to >reply to so that i could make silly jokes at the end. > I can vouch for the fact that Dave and I are actually two different people, although it does make one wonder.. maybe we're actually the same person or he is my super hero identity and I am just mild mannered "wild" Bill. >true. good point. and obviously, you're qualified to state >your own opinion. what i was trying to say is just that i find >musical taste really subjective, and when you say, "this sucks/ >this is bad," what i hear is a statement of opinion as it if >were fact. which it's not. Yeah, same here, musical taste is very subjective, thats why when someone says "moxy sucks.. ewwww" I know that they don't like 'em and I take them off my christmas list. Either that or I make sure that I put a number of choice tunes on their next mix tape. >it's the santana influence. ;) uh huh.. although I've always liked Santana more for the percussion than the guitar riffs (although he is a guitar god). I guess I just like a good latin beat every once in awhile. >>thumb wrestle? > >i'll have to warn you that i was trained by a master. these >thumbs are registered with the CIA. Wah! you want to fight me?! I crush you like grape! "wild" Bill - ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:10:52 GMT From: "Chris K @*_*@" Subject: Re: cute fru moment Daancing Queen wrote: > I never said these songs had good messages. :) > I was very disturbed when I > was a camp counsellor a few years back and my kids were running around > singing "shut up and sleep with me" or my girl guides singing Oasis > songs about getting high. But you know, they really > didn't know what they were > singing about (you can argue that kids today know about > things younger and > younger, but no, in these cases, they didn't know what they were > singing) - > it's like watching kid's cartoons when you're an adult, > you suddenly realize > there's a whole other level to it that you didn't notice > when you were a kid > because you just didn't know. *snipped* We could go on another track here and start a thread about "songs I had no clue what they meant until I got older" here. Like Sara said, some kids don't know the "real" meaning of the songs and just like the "I can dance to it, it's got a good beat, I'll give it a 10"[1] appeal to it. Did we all know what the song "Relax" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood meant when it when we were younger? Or how about being 6 years old and singing "Paradise By the Dashboard Light" by Meatloaf[2]? Or maybe "Bad Girls" or "Hot Stuff" by Donna Summer?[3] It's funny when you get older and say "Geez! That's what that song meant?! And I used to go around and *sing* it?!" =) Some day, those kids will be like "BLEH! I used to *like* Britney Spears!? What kinda taste in music did *I* have?!" ;D I should change the subject line, but you know what? I don't feel like it. :) Christine. [1] That's an American Bandstand reference there for you young folks. [2] My dad's favorite LP in 1977. :) [3] Yeah, I'm showing my age here, and damn proud of it too! *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* - --Diet soda? - --No thanks. FREAKED!!!! - --Fiddle Faddle? Elijah to Ricky - --Alright...delicious. 1993 *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:54:49 EDT From: StarflashJ@aol.com Subject: Re: new apparel? In a message dated 7/28/2000 1:53:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lunab1219@aol.com writes: << A couple months ago, before the C album was released, Tobey mentioned something about having "C" shirts or ballcaps. We're heading out to the Vermont show on Sunday and I was wondering if anyone saw a show were they had some of the new merchandise? Im hoping they do! >> I was just at the show on Wed at Bottom Line and they had "C" shirts... they were actually pretty cool looking.. ~*Jen*~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:44:00 -0400 From: Lori Martin Subject: Re: Hidden camera follows teenage girl on date ellen wrote: > Lori Martin wrote: > >I didn't get it either. weird, that. I s'pose it only went to > >the boy types on the list? > > > > How do you think they DO that? I wonder ... > > > > /clueless. > here, have a clue. tastes like mock goat. it's really really oversalted? I liked Steve's mock chicken better, thanks. ;) > it's your spam-filtering software, dear. i didn't see it because > remarq caught it before it ever reached my happy little mac. i > suspect AOL has something similar to protect your happy little > machine. eeeeeek! the NOIVE! I rarely permit AOHell to go anywhere near my machine anymore, website aside. :P Actually, I suspect it's Cos' spiffy gateway's spam-filtering software that's doing the good work for me. (Although unlike Ln, I didn't get "Hot young girls ... " either, which indicates AOL's not catching everything for her. As I recall, those AOL filters need to be applied manually and individually. ) It's a better theory than suspecting the sender of applying sexism as well as bad taste. I doubt they're capable of thinking through demographic-specific spam. ;) - -- Lori Glitter Fairy/Tattooing Fru ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html Moxy Früvous House Party pictures/reviews: http://members.aol.com/faeriefru/houseparty.html ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #316 ********************************************