From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #204 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Friday, May 5 2000 Volume 04 : Number 204 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [FAQ] alt.music.moxy-fruvous Frequently Asked Questions list (4/4) [Chad ] Re: review: allentown 4/30 (way too long) [Lori Martin Subject: [FAQ] alt.music.moxy-fruvous Frequently Asked Questions list (4/4) [Begin part 4/4] Credits: Many thanks go out to Colleen Campbell, creator and initial maintainer of the alt.music.moxy-fruvous FAQ. Without her, this whole thing would never have been started. A ton of thanks to Jude Coombe for all her help over the years posting helpful official information to the newsgroup. Official involvement in alt.music.moxy-fruvous is really appreciated as it helps keep the denizens in line. Also, another myriad of "thank you"'s and "huzzahs" to Chris O'Malley, keeper of Fruvous Dot Com ( http://www.fruvous.com ) and all around excellent fellow. Thanks to Chris for having a space for the FAQ on FDC and updating it there for me. Thanks to Gordon Elgart for the information provided in Song and Lyrics Question #11. Thanks to Chris "Moz" Moesel for scanning in the Trivial Pursuit card for Fruvous Dot Com. Thanks to Rodney Elin for the information provided in Fruvous Characters Question #3. Thanks to Joe Navratil for sending the post that is archived in Appendix A and starting the acronym listing that has become Appendix C. Also thanks for contributing back info for Basic Info question #10. Thanks to Lori Martin for the AOL info from Fruvous Internet Resources question #3. Thanks to Jason Reiser for setting up the FAQ autoresponder. Helpful proofreaders without whom this FAQ would be full of "teh"s, usage of past tense instead of present tense, and other miscellaneous badness: Vika Zafrin, Jennifer Cenicola, Amanda Potter, Ken Perschke, Mary Krause, Jennifer Schlosser, Liza Q. Wirtz, Traci Poli, Jason Reiser, Andi Andrzejewski, Lori Martin, Melanie Barbarito, and Paul Mischler. Appendices Appendix A - An explanation of why age restricted venues exist and bands play at them This post was sent to the FAQ by Joe Navratil. He saved it off Footprints, a mailing list for Veritcal Horizon (VH), and it is reprinted here with permission. It has been cleaned up with regards to capitalization, spelling, and formatting. Content has not been changed. Subject: [footprints] age, clubs, and economics Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:53:21 -0400 From: Will Foy To: footprints@onelist.com From: Will Foy I know everyone's sick of this, but it's a frustrating thing for those who are under (and we were ALL underage at some point), so I wanted to say a few words about this. A warning: this is sorta long, but I want to kinda walk people through the steps of why. It doesn't make age restrictions feel any better, but it explains the why's. I'm going to be writing using my own personal experiences, some of which talking with promoters, club owners, bands, club staff, and my own fraternity's risk management position, which deals with some of the exact same laws and modes of thought. Your mileage may vary on some of the things I'm going to discuss, but by and large, these are industry norms. So, you're starting up a club. Cool deal! It's something I've entertained for a while myself, and may well do one day. You're a big music fan, and don't wanna rave club or something silly like that, so you go out, you book about 2 months worth of bands to play in advance. You, as your own promoter, want people to come out and see these bands that you enjoy as a fan, and pay you for the privilege of coming into your club to see them. This is called a cover charge, and we've all paid one probably at some point. You also want to make it affordable so the college kids (you did put your club in a college town didn't you?) can come and see them too! You make your default ticket price $5, which is reasonable, and it also works nice for the numbers. So, as you're building your club, you have the local fire marshall come out, inspect the club (you have to do this), and rate your capacity. He says you can hold 500 people in your new club. So, an interesting thing here... at your default rate, you can make only 2500 from the door. Keep that number in mind. Now, when you signed up the bands with their booking agents (people like PGA, who handles R.E.M., (e:), Sting, boatloads of other people, Red Light, Creative artists, and many times, the bands themselves), you signed a contract. This contract has LOTS of stuff in it, including for the moment, a couple of statements about fees for performance, etc. Most bands have a hybrid style contract. They'll get an amount that must be paid, period. This is called a guarantee. That amount ranges based on how well known the band is in that area, how much they have made and expect to make at repeat performances, and all kinds of other factors. It's made through negotiation. Let's say that you book a band, the Smokin' Mirrors, who aren't known real well in your area, and they ask for a $500 guarantee. That's reasonable you think, so you sign that part of the contract. Typically, bands will also ask for a percentage of the door take. This percentage may vary by club. Jack Straw's for example, does 100% of the door. Ziggy's does 80-band/20-club in most cases. Before you get to 80/20, you have to meet the guarantee, so it's usually 100% of the door upto the guarantee, then 80% of the rest. So, let's say you booked on a good night, lots of people came out, and you sold 250 tickets. That's 250 x 5 = 750. So, the band gets their 500 from the guarantee + 80% of 250, which is 200. They get 700 of that 750. Hmmm, you had a half-full club, which is pretty good most nights for an unknown band, and you make out with only 50 bucks. Hmmm... file that one away. Let's say that you booked them on a wednesday night, and it's midterms week at the Local University. So, you get 75 people. That's 75 x 5 = 375. You actually LOST 125 bucks, b/c you had to pay the rest of that $500 guarantee out of pocket. Most businesses I know of don't exist to lose money. Casinos might give out millions or even billions, but casinos aren't built on your winnings. They're built on the losses of countless people. Likewise, clubs don't exist just as music museums, they exist to make money. So, here are some choices facing a club owner: 1) Raise ALL ticket prices: aside from probably driving some people out the market, you do get the effect of raising your marginal rate, which makes you some more money, but is the increase in your marginal ticket price going to offset the downshift in demand? For tickets? Probably not, especially for MOST of the smaller, lesser known acts. Think people like the Disco Biscuits, Owsley, and VH early on in their career. VH loves to talk about how the first time they played Ziggy's there were 25 people there, and now they routinely sell out hours before the show (and sometimes days). They didn't get to that point overnight, as we all know, but it has some implications for club economics. Not the least of which is that currently, you could charge 10-15 for a VH ticket, but you couldn't do that when only 25 people show up. Doesn't work well. 2) So, using that example, you only raise ticket prices on BIG shows, hoping to raise your profit on BIG shows where you sell out the club's capacity, to offset the losses of lesser attended shows. Good idea, but a lot of the time, if a band knows it's going to sell the place out, it's going to raise the amount they want guaranteed. I don't think VH would be too happy with a $500 guarantee at a place they've sold out every time they've played for close to 2 years now. So, remembering that 2500 max figure, you HAVE to raise your ticket prices to cover the increase in guarantee in many cases. I.E. if after a few years of playing your club, the Smokin' Mirrors are doing well every night they play, they're going to ask for say, $2500 guaranteed. This is not astronomical by any stretch for a guarantee. So, you HAVE to sell out to make money at $5 a head. So, you raise the price to $10. that way, anything over halffull and you make a few bucks. 3) You could lower your prices, hoping to drive up demand for tickets. This may work for really really unknown bands to bring people who wouldn't pay 5 bucks, but would pay 3. You might make more, but there's no guaranty that people who wouldn't pay 5 bucks would pay at all, for an unknown band. These are the people who know two songs by artists we've loved for years. I'll use EMB (and I love EMB as band and people, just good folks) as an example. There are people who have seen them for years, dating back to their old drummer, pre-larry on guitar, pre-band even. These people know all the songs, probably trade tapes, etc. (they're like US!!!!), then there are those who know "Solitude", "I'll Be" and maybe "I Could Not Ask for More" and sing those till their throats pop, and that's it. Fine, they're fans too. That's ok. But they barely come out for bands they do know from radio play. Do you honestly think they'll come out for a band they've never heard of, ever, much less on radio? Tickets at 3 bucks or 5 bucks doesn't much matter. This strategy sometimes works, but you have to pick your spots. 4) You could "tax" merchandise sales. Bands hate this, but some venues do take a small chunk out of the merch sales, maybe 5 or 10 %. But, merch sales compared to tickets for MOST shows (not all), are probably going to be much less. You might make a few bucks here, but it's not worth the good will of the band to push this marginal club tax rate higher and higher to make more $ for the club. Not a good idea. A band I won't mention (not VH) RAILED against a college that had this in their contract for playing. They took 15% from merch sales, and the band hated it. raised all kinds of cain trying to fight it, but in the end, their management signed the contract, and it was binding. No choice. I doubt they'll play that college again, which is sad. You as a club owner, want them to WANT to come back and play, so this is a bad idea. 5) You could sell something else. Ah-ha!!! Here's a place where you can make some more money, and probably won't have anything in the contract you have to fork over to the band. Great! Now what'cha gonna sell? You could sell club t-shirts, yeah! That's it. Oh wait, if Joe and Jane Clubhopper buy a t-shirt a piece, they probly won't buy another one next week when they come to see another band at your club. What else could you sell? Hmmm, I got it! Let's make it a smoothie bar! You'll sell great fruit and vegetable shake concoctions. Only trouble is no one can stand the noise those damn blenders make. Hmmm. How about beer!? People will buy it over and over again, each time they come, and popping a top or twisting a cap is pretty quiet relative to the 110 dB's the PA is cranking out. Not to mention less costly and less messy as far as cleanup in the bar area. Now, here's where we get into some interesting business decisions. Ok, so you as a business have your standard liability insurance (your local Gap has liability insurance incase someone falls, breaks a hip and sues. Businesses have to have this to function and be licensed) doesn't cover sales of alcohol, b/c it's legally and liability wise risky. At least that's what their bean counters and actuaries tell them. So, if you wanna sell alcohol they tell you, you have to pay them much more in insurance fees. So there is an additional cost to even trying to generate more revenue. Likewise, if your primary audience is 21+, it's not a problem. But if you're in a college town, you're going to have some people 20- who wanna come too. Therein lies another problem: in most states (and this does vary from state to state, due to state insurance laws), if you have 20-'ers in your club, the marginal insurance rate can go up for those businesses. So they'll charge you EVEN MORE for the 18-20 year olds, and even more still for the 17-'ers, if they're even permitted to go inside the club. So, there are some ways around this increase in costs: 1) don't allow 20-'ers in 2) don't allow 17-'ers in 3) charge more for underagers (this is VERY common) 4) don't sell alcohol None of those options is great, and now you get a flavor for what's coming up for club owners. But, there's another wrinkle that makes this even more difficult. Your capacity, was what, 500 people? Given that everyone counts the same whether they're 50 or 5 years old, the more underagers in your club, the less product you are likely to sell, since you can't sell to those under 21. Thus, if you have a show in which you're going to have a bunch of teenagers, your bar is probably going to sell less beer, b/c they can't buy it. But moreover, they take the slot of an of-ager. Lemme repeat that. Every ticket you sell to someone under 21, takes a ticket away (potentially in a sellout of the show) from a 21+ person. Thus, from an economic, and not emotional sense, it's pretty easy to see why a club might be less willing to do shows for 20-'ers. In the case of a non-sellout show, it makes little difference, but if the show sells out, it's bad for business for underagers to be in the house. Jack Straw's for YEARS was a 21+ only club. At the age of 20, swearing away my firstborn, swearing on the honor code of my school (which at davidson, a violation can get you suspended for a semester, or kicked out. Happens not a lot, but when violations happen, it's A Bad Thing.), etc. It took Steve Van Dam and Randy Reed (lead guitarist and manager) of Everything to get me in that night. I had the club owner watching me like a hawk all night. We're now friends, and I think in that night, showed him that 18+ might not be a bad idea. However, it took some doing. I was allowed in, but if I tried to bring a friend with me, forget it. It was hassle city again. There are some ways around the loss of revenue from underagers. You can sell tickets at a higher price, which is very common. You can also have stuff other than alcohol to sell. Ziggy's now sells cokes and bottled spring water. This is helpful in the summer for everyone, b/c it's really damn hot in there sometimes without people, much less 800 or so writhing bodies dancing singing, and filling the club with hot air. These help some, but not a ton. That said, it's not easy, and ideally everyone would be able to attend, but it's sometimes legally difficult too. B/c most clubs don't sell food, they don't qualify as restaurants, which are subject to different alcohol control laws. For instance, any of us could probably walk into an olive garden (used b/c it's ubiquitous), sit down, and have a meal, enjoy a band or whatever if they had one. But, they sell food. in the eyes of The Man, they are very different from your local bar/club (Mama Kin's, Ziggy's, Alley Katz, the Bayou -rock in peace -, and The Muse , etc, etc, etc), which is subject to strict control, Alcohol Law Enforcement raids, stings, and repeated visits. They also have different laws period about control. In many states, alcohol must be kept in a separate area from where underagers may go. I.E. if you're 25, and having a beer, you can't be in the main part of the venue, but in a cardon'ed off area where only of agers can go. This makes some venues say, nope, we're not doing that, no 20-'ers then. It offends the people who are of age, and who pay their ticket prices too, and would drive them away from that venue. Also in many states, if the club sells liquor, people under 18 aren't allowed in, period. In NC, if the club sells liquor, you must be a member of the club, or a guest of a member to purchase it, and it must be kept in a separate area. Thus, Ziggy's created a membership program, for $5 lifetime membership, for which you get a monthly calendar, and a card, as well as access to the liquor bar, pool tables, and much cleaner bathrooms. it sucks mightily, but it's the law. Violation could mean shutting down the club, which would not be preferable to restrictions. Now, there are people you could blame as a fan, but the club owner isn't probably one of them. They're people who may not make a ton of money. They own a club, b/c they probably really love music, and while they make a profit, they're not turning into millionaires any time soon. keep in mind, they have to pay for power, insurance, water, facilities like bathrooms and repairs to items damaged by people who come in, plus, paying for sound, lighting, heating and cooling, etc, etc, etc... how does that get paid for? Cover charge, and bar. It's not a good thing for those of you who are underage, but the club owner isn't the guy you wanna blame. Blame your state lawmakers. Blame the federal restriction on alcohol to 21, if the state wants federal highway funds. Blame idiots who drink and drive when they could wait 5 minutes and call a cab, which brought the ire of MADD, SADD, and lawmakers to raise the drinking age. Blame the boneheads who are underage and try to drink. I heartily discourage you from buying fakes. Why? B/c it ends up hurting clubs, b/c if they get busted by ALE, b/c of you, their insurance goes up, they may have to close, etc. Not A Good Thing. Cabeesh? Instead, here are some ideas: 1) Lobby the band to force the club to do all ages shows. If the band, like VH, is well known, the club may cave. This happens. It takes some doing, but it happens. Jack Straw's was 21+, but was forced to be 16+ (not quite all ages), for a Jump, Little Children show, b/c they made it part of the contract, and wouldn't play without it. Email VH and other bands you love, to voice that you're 16 or 14, and you'd go to see them, even paying extra, to go to see them in your area, if they'd make the club do all ages. I'd bet they'll listen and try to make it happen. don't be mad if they can't. It may not be legally possible. It sucks. 2) Lobby your government to repeal 21+ alcohol laws, at least as they pertain to music clubs. Write your house rep, write your senators, write to your state house and senate people, write to the governor, and keep at it. You might not be 18, but if you can voice your opinion, it makes it well known that your vote for or against them hangs in the balance. 3) Lobby the club to do all ages shows, or 18+ for those shows. Suggest that you pay more to balance their costs. It might work. I lobbied Chandler at Jack Straw's for this, even after I was 21, so that people I knew could come to shows. 4) Beg and plead with the club staff. It sometimes works. Keep at it. Don't be angry, or violent, or hassle them. Be polite. It's your best weapon in this scenario. 5) Call the band ahead, and don't ask to be on the guest list (b/c they'll still check id), but ask them to put some sort of "responsible underager list" at the door. They might do it. Most of all, when you're out, and underage, be responsible. Don't drink. It's what started this mess for clubs and 18-20 year olds in the first place. If you wanna drink, do it somewhere else. I personally think it's no crime for an 18 year old who can be drafted, to drink a frosty cold beer. In fact, I think that laws should be corrected so that like my old roomie from Cyprus could, drink at 12 (basically old enough to see over the bar), and drive at 18 or 21. That would be vastly preferable. It's easier to take care of a body than it is to take care of a car and a body. Please whatever you do, don't drink and drive. Again, this is what made stupid inane, unfriendly laws happen. Take a cab, have a designated driver, get a ride with a friend. Your car will be fine, get it the next morning (just make sure you put your Club on the steering column) friends, take the keys. Club owners bend the rules sometimes, so being responsible will encourage that type of thing more often. Do I sound like an old fuddy duddy? Perhaps, but this is after close to 7 years of club experience, working the door, doing merch, hanging out with bartenders at far too late an hour, talking with owners, etc. They know what they're doing. Does it suck? You bet. Try some of the stuff I wrote above. It may make a difference. Appendix B - alt.music.moxy-fruvous Newsgroup Definitions and Etiquette Suggestions Contained herein are some general Usenet tips, suggestions, definitions, and recommendations that are tailored to alt.music.moxy-fruvous. Please read this section and bear in mind its contents when reading or posting to the newsgroup. There are many many newsgroup subscribers who get posts in various different ways and each person has their own likes and dislikes. alt.music.moxy-fruvous DOs and DON'Ts DO read the newsgroup for a week or two before posting. It helps you get a feel for the atmosphere, what people like to read and what they don't like to read and just generally gets you acclimated to your audience. DO read the FAQ. If it answers your questions, maybe you don't need to ask it again to the whole newsgroup just to get the same answer. DON'T post in all capital letters. On a.m.m-f this is considered shouting and is very rude. Use capitalized words sparingly and when you mean to stress something. DON'T POST IN ALL CAPITALS. DO quote a bit of the post you are responding to when replying so that people reading your reply get the context of your reply. Usenet can get some messages out of order, so your message needs to be self contained or some people may not get your point. DON'T quote the entire contents of the message you are replying to. Snip out the irrelevant parts and just quote what is necessary to get the idea of what you are replying to. Many people don't like to wade through 30 lines of quoting to get to 3 lines of response. DON'T leave the entire contents of the article you are replying to at the bottom of your post. Many people read the newsgroup in digest format and this makes the digest very hard to read. DON'T bring up the band members' personal lives. It is NOT an appropriate subject for the newsgroup. DON'T post to the entire newsgroup when a direct email to a specific newsgroup member would be more appropriate. If you want to get a band member a message, the newsgroup is NOT the place to post your message. DO use the "OT:" heading to mark Off-Topic subjects. Some people don't like to read non-Fruvous-related posts and just want album discussions, show reviews, tour dates, and the like. Using "OT:" in your headers marks off-topic posts so people can skip if they like. DO change the subject line if the thread has veered off to a different subject. Someone may not enjoy the original subject, but where you veer it off to may be something they'd like to read it. Many people choose which posts to read by the subject, so make the subject fit the body of your post. DO respect the other people in the newsgroup. There are people behind the text you are reading. Flaming someone publicly on the newsgroup is not a good thing. DON'T reply to troll posts. A troll in Usenet is defined as a person who makes an inflammatory post with no intent of starting meaningful conversation. The troll will usually sit back and watch the replies swarm in, including personal flame mail. This is exactly what the troll wants, so don't encourage them by giving it to them. Just let it be. DO limit the number of lines in your signature. An .sig over 5 lines is consider excessive by standard Usenet etiquette. Some people pay for bandwidth and having a 20 line signature at the end of each of your posts may seem like a good way of expressing who you are, it also is a waste of downloading for people who won't even read it. DON'T post binaries to the group. Binaries include pictures, soundfiles, etc. alt.music.moxy-fruvous is not a binaries group and many people do not want bandwidth hogging binaries to automatically come to them when they are trying to read the newsgroup. DON'T post with mime encryption or as HTML. Yes, you can be more fancy with HTML posts, but many people do not use HTML enabled newsreaders or email programs. They see your post as a lot of weird junk and probably won't bother reading it. DON'T post "me too" messages. Please DO participate in threads and add your ideas, opinions, and knowledge to the group discussion, but simply replying with a "me too" after someone's post (no matter how good it was) is an old Usenet faux pas and is frowned on by many people. If you want to agree with someone, please take the time to add some of your personal flavor to the message. It is hoped that the above list helps you get acclimated to the newsgroup more quickly and prevents you from looking foolish in some people's eyes with your first post. You don't have to have FDC memorized top to bottom to be a part of the newsgroup, but please try and follow some simple etiquette when posting and you will find the newsgroup a great resource for Fruvous information of all types. * Appendix C - Common acronyms seen in alt.music.moxy-fruvous Fruvous fans are really a bunch of hippies and geeks, and with that many geeks you know there are gonna be acronyms from here to eternity. Here's a list of common abbreviations and acronyms seen on a.m.m-f. If you have any additions, please email ammf-faq@fruvous.com. Songs - ----- BJ "BJ Don't Cry" (from _Bargainville_) B&B "Bed & Breakfast" (from _Wood_) GE&H, GE+H "Green Eggs & Ham" (from the indie tape) GMIA "The Greatest Man In America" (from _The B Album_) GWS "The Gulf War Song" (from _Bargainville_) ID, ID4 "Independence Day" (from _Thornhill_) ILMB "I Love My Boss" (from _The B Album_) ITC "It's Too Cold" (from _Wood_) IWHO "I Will Hold On" (from _Thornhill_) KITA "Kick In The Ass" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_) KoS, KOS "King Of Spain" (from _Bargainville_) MBLABOA "My Baby Love A Bunch Of Authors" (from _Bargainville_) Michy "Michigan Militia" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_) MPG "My Poor Generation" (from _Thornhill_) PTT "The Present Tense Tureen" (from _Wood_) YCBTC "You Can't Be Too Careful" (From _Thornhill_) YNB "Your New Boyfriend" (from _You Will Go To The Moon_) YWGTTM The title track from _You Will Go To The Moon_ Usenet - ------ AFAIK As far as I know afmf alt.fan.moxy.fruvous, the evil stillborn twin of ammf ammf alt.music.moxy-fruvous BTW By the way FAQ Frequently asked questions list. * FS For sale (usually used in subject lines) FWIW For what it's worth FYI For your information IM[NS]HO In my (not so) humble opinion. Sometimes the 'H' is left out LOL Laughing out loud NG Newsgroup. In this case, ammf. OT Off-Topic. Not to be confused with On-Topic, which doesn't have an acronym ROFL Rolling on the floor laughing RTF Read the FAQ YMMV Your mileage may vary Groups - ------ * AW Arrogant Worms BFF,BF5 Ben Folds Five BFF Bela Fleck and the Flecktones BNL Barenaked Ladies EFO Eddie From Ohio GBS Great Big Sea JBE Jim's Big Ego TMBG They Might Be Giants Venues - ------ BL The Bottom Line, in New York City IH The Iron Horse, in Northampton (NoHo), MA * IP Irving Plaza, in New York City * Lee's Lee's Palace, in Toronto, ON NoHo Northampton, MA, usually used as shorthand for the Iron Horse * Ramshead The Rams Head Tavern, in Annapolis, MD TLA The Theatre of the Living Arts, a great venue in downtown Philadelphia Tralf The Tralfamadore Cafe in downtown Buffalo Troc The Trocadero in Philly Fruvous Miscellania - ------------------- Bville _Bargainville_, the first album FDC Fruvous Dot Com, or http://www.fruvous.com FHDC Fruhead Dot Com, or http://www.fruhead.com FRFF Falcon Ridge Folk Festival, in Hillsdale NY F&FFC Fruvous & Friends For Choice, the pretty annual Fruvous benefit for the Ontario Coalition of Abortion Clinics LBC Larry Boniface Clebdon, the.. er, thing on the cover of _Bargainville_ LN _Live Noise_, the fourth full-length album and only live release MF Moxy Fruvous, Murray Foster, or Mike Ford. MFHQ Moxy Fruvous Headquarters in Toronto ON NYE New Years Eve TO Toronto, Ontario WTG, WTGM, WTGD Way To Go, Way To Go Murray, Way To Go Dave YWGTTM _You Will Go To The Moon_, the third full-length album [End part 4/4] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:10:49 -0400 From: Lori Martin Subject: Re: review: allentown 4/30 (way too long) Carey posted a review before Shannon got the chance, but I took notes tooooooo! At least until I started dancing. So here's some additions ... > >Early Morning Rain: YAY! I was so happy to hear this live, and that they > >opened with it. It was *gorgeous*. But why Jian decided to use this song as > >an opportunity to resurrect his old Tall New Buildings-era dances is totally > >beyond me. I think it had something to do with the double espresso one of the Symphony Hall staff provided him .... > >"Isn't Jesus from Pennsylvania?" (Jian) "Yeah -- the next town over" (Bethlehem). This is the first time I've heard the "Baby Jesus" intro to BJ. > >BJ: hadn't heard this one live yet, either. It included some little attempts > >at vogueing or something by Jian and then Murray. that double espresso ... > >banter about the Bryn Mawr performance earlier that day: "It was like some > >pre-pubescent heterosexual ... > male fantasy . . . Murray, I think: "with 1500 maidens -- I guess we can call them maidens -- in white robes cavorting around the May Pole in a pagan rite." > and that's why we paid 2 thousand bucks to > >play that gig." (Jian) > >then Dave said something about a "flagon of mead" . . . > >Murray: "Dave's waited for 3 years to use the word 'flagon' onstage." "the only male present was half-donkey, with cloven hooves, playing a double flute ... " > >Sad Girl: began with a long intro about grunge culture and stuff. At one > >point, Jian finally asked, "Am I rambling?" and Murray replied. "I just did > >my taxes in my head." This was hilarious, but I don't know if Jian knew what the audience giggles were about. As his intro went on I heard numerous whispers of a *certain* phrase from the welcoming page at the Ji-spot, and then Jian followed up the "am I rambling?" comment with "you know, I had a point!" :) > Jian had the Persian Cowboy hat on again ("Don't call > >me my name anymore -- just call me Persian Cowboy"), which led to some > >banter about Persian fundamentalists marching in the streets . . . The caballero look rawks! And so does Dave's sumptuous goatee! > >Minnie: Yay Grampa Fruvous! Someone else will have to help me out with the > >rhymes here. All I remember is "go local sports team!" It was "get a local sports team!" I think. The sports verse was something about Penguins/Flyers looking like has-beens. Then there was a reference to a phallic local piece of architecture -- not to be confused with the landmark statue our carload of Fruheads had earlier decided was Allentown's pride and joy. GWBush/nose candy verse. > >At some point in here, Dave strapped on the banjo - -- with much ribald teasing, in exactly those words -- > >Song Sung Blue --> Cracklin' Rosie: yes, this did happen. There was some kid > >in the front wearing a Neil Diamond Tshirt, and they invited him to stand up > >in front of whoever was doing lead vocals, and move his shirt so it looked > >like Neil was singing. Dave started out with Song Sung Blue, and then went > >into Cracklin' Rosie. The other guys were really looking like they were > >thinking, "Ummmmm, *why* are we doing this? and *how* did this happen?" hee > >hee.) The kid didn't know quite what to do with the shirt, so Jian helpfully stood behind him, arms over his shoulders, and manipulated the Neil-mouth on the shirt until the kid got the hang of it. In the meantime Dave's just playing along, singing word-for-word. I turned to Shannon and Anita and said: "is there a song in the world that man *doesn't* know?" > >KOS --> GEH: I think everybody was dancing at this point. OK, so this was my > >first time even hearing GEH live, so it was lots and lots of fun. "Not the > >Beatles" went on for quite awhile, with the "look what you've done to *him*" > >thing, and then Mike in his little kid voice saying, "I see dead people." Other 6th Sense stuff too, but I forget what. > >Splatter Splatter I like the new-ish intro to this, because it's more distinctive. I always used to wonder -- is it Splatter, or is it BJ? Not that this would have been an issue last night, as they'd already played BJ. > >Disco Bville: with "no no no Raja" in the last refrain. > >Encore 2 > >GWS: absolutely beautiful. One request, tho, and I mean this in the nicest > >possible way: if Fruvous is singing off-mic GWS and you're tone-deaf, > >*please don't sing along*. uh, yeah. ditto. pretty please. :) - -- Lori Glitter Fairy/Tattooing Fru ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:04:36 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: [FAQ] alt.music.moxy-fruvous Frequently Asked Questions list (2/4) [Begin part 2/4] Section: Basic Moxy Fruvous Information 1) Who is Moxy Fruvous? "Coming from Canada," a Toronto-based quartet of singer-songwriters who double as political satirists, comedians, social commentators, etc. The band includes Mike Ford (guitar, harmonica, bongos, keyboard, occasional drum kit and vocals), Murray Foster (bass, occasional drum kit, percussion, occasional guitar, and vocals), Jian Ghomeshi (drums, percussion, occasional guitar, and vocals), and Dave Matheson (guitar, accordion, banjo, keyboards, and vocals). They've been playing together as a group since about 1990 and are known for their experimentation, dabbling in genres from barbershop quartet to grunge, retro rock to rap, ballads to Saturday morning cartoons. See http://www.fruvous.com/band.html for the Fruvous Dot Com band bios. 2) What does "Moxy Fruvous" mean? Mike: Many, many people come up to us after shows and ask us "where'd you get your name"? Jian: Or sometimes, or more usually, it's "where'd you get your stupid name." What does "Moxy Fruvous" mean? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Anything you want it to. "What is the sound of one hand clapping"? It's a couple of nonsense words, two great tastes that taste great together, a happy coincidence, a fun sound, and to fans' everlasting delight, some gibberish that lends itself imminently to wordplay. If you ask Fruvous what their name means, you're likely to get a strange look (or several) or a cryptic reply. 3) What is a Fruhead? How can I become a Fruhead? Fruvous is aware of and frequently acknowledges their follow-band status. Some fans of the band consider themselves "Fruheads" (which is a derivation of word Deadhead used to describe specific fans of the band The Grateful Dead, who followed them around creating a whole new social atmosphere around Dead shows in addition to the actual show itself). At its most basic, a Fruhead is usually a fan of the band who goes a bit beyond what normally comes with being a fan. Many Fruheads not only attend shows in their town, but travel to nearby or even faraway towns to see shows or attend multiple shows in a row on a tour. They support the band, buying albums and other merchandise, and usually recommend the band vehemently to their friends. The band likes to describe the Fruheads as the people who "get" their music and what they are doing and support it. Many times, the word Fruhead is used interchangeably with fan, though to some, "Fruhead" has more connotations than just a fan. There is no ritual, rite of passage, or letter of recommendation needed to become a Fruhead. Despite the description given for the six-stamp mark on the old Fruhead card, there is no prerequisite number of shows you need to attend before becoming a Fruhead. You simply need to consider yourself a member of the Fruhead community and be willing to accept that label upon yourself, knowing full well it means a boatload of things to different people. People who do not travel, but see each and every show in their city and support the band by buying albums are just as important as the crazy who drives to who-knows-where to see a show. The status of Fruhead does not raise someone into the inner circle of Frudom. If you consider yourself a Fruhead, congratulations. You are. 4) What is the "Fruhead Card"? In the Fruvous Quill #9 (their mailing list fan club newsletter, also on file on FDC at http://www.fruvous.com/quill.html ), they instituted the Fruhead Card, a means of keeping track of the number of shows a fan had attended. It ran through December 1997 and was stamped and dated at the merchandise table at each show. After 3 stamps, the fan received a pin; at 6, a t-shirt signed by Fruvous (not available for purchase); at 12, a compilation of their videos (including "King of Spain," "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors," "Stuck in the Nineties," "Fell in Love," "Down From Above," "Fly," and "Get in the Car"); at 18, a song composed, recorded, and mailed to them by the band; at 24, an all-expense-paid bowling trip with Fruvous; at 30, a dinner-and-dancing date with Dave; at 36, dinner and dancing with Mike, Jian, or Murray; and at 50, theoretically, a Fruvous ass-brand administered by the band. None of the songs have yet reached the fans - about forty obtained 18 stamps (though several people have been told that their songs are completed). About 20 people reached the 24 stamp mark, and many of them went on a bowling trip with Fruvous during the weekend of the First Annual Fruhead Convention (FruCon) held in Toronto in February 1998. The dinner dates haven't yet materialized and seem to be in rain check mode (no figures available on how many people reached each of those marks). Two people, though, reached the fifty-stamp mark; Dan "the Shadow" Jablonski respectfully declined the fleshly acknowledgment of his accomplishment, but the other, Chris O'Malley, received a tattoo of the budgie dog (paid for by Fruvous), on camera (and broadcast on Canadian television), right where it was stipulated. 5) What is the "Frumiles Card"? The Frumiles Card was the latest reincarnation of the original Fruhead Card. It began in Fruvous Quill #12, and every subscriber to the Quill received a card. The system of rewards was similar, but one must accumulate Frumiles and "spent" them, instead of simply receiving the prize after X number of shows. The prizes that time were a Fruvous key fob for 300 miles, pin for 500, racing cap for 1000, campfire songbook for 1500, mint condition indie cassette for 2500, and bowling with the band and "treats" for 3000. Note that these theoretical miles had nothing to do with actual miles, and driving from Vancouver to a Boston show would likely net you one stamp on your card, worth 100 miles. To cash in stamps on your Frumiles card, check at the Merchandise table at a show, email MFHQ at moxy@passport.ca, or call or mail Moxy Fruvous headquarters using the contact info on FDC at http://www.fruvous.com/contact.html. A picture of the front of the Frumiles Card is available at http://www.fruvous.com/miscpics/milefron.jpg 6) My Frumiles Card expires at the "end of the millennium." Is that December 31st, 1999, or 2000? While Quill #12 states that "Stamps will be awarded for the duration of this millenium," the front of the Frumiles card clearly states 98/99 and members of the band and crew have said that the Frumiles Card ends its run at the end of 1999. And, as a matter of fact, it did end its run at the end of 1999 with the final stamps possible on the Frumiles card being given out at the two shows over New Years in Buffalo in 1999/2000. Yes, a stamp was given for the New Years Day show on January 1st, 2000. 7) Where is the band currently touring? Tour information is included in each issue of the Fruvous Quill. Simply sign up on the band's mailing list and you will get the Quill twice a year. To get on the mailing list, check at the merch table at a show or email MFHQ at moxy@passport.ca and ask to be placed on the mailing list. If you are on the mailing list, the band will occasionally send postcards to certain areas or all over to announce a stint of dates, usually as an addendum to the latest Quill. Fruvous Dot Com is also kept up-to-date with the latest tour info including additions and changes since the Quill went out. It also has venue information and links to venue web sites. The FDC Tour Page is found by following the Tour Dates link on the main page http://www.fruvous.com. The final say in tour date information comes from the kind people who hold down Moxy Fruvous Headquarters in Toronto ON. To get clarification on tour dates beyond what is listed on FDC, contact them at moxy@passport.ca or call using the phone number listed on FDC in the Contacting Fruvous section at http://www.fruvous.com/contact.html. Fruvous has played in England, Scotland, and Denmark in the past, and recently have been touring more in Western Canada and the Western United States than in the past. Tour dates are usually more concentrated in the areas around Toronto ON, and in the Midwest and Northeast United States. 8) Why has the band toured more in the United States than in Canada lately? [Maintainer's Note: This question is a really an opinion question. I personally wasn't there when all this happened, though I have talked with some people about it. Colleen was not there either. Both our takes come from secondhand (or more) observations and shouldn't be taken as gospel. I left Colleen's answer in as well as adding my own to this so you can see both our opinions.] This is a tough question really. As of late, there has still been a bias towards the US, even though there have been tours including Western Canada for the first time in years. Jack Ross, the band's manager, said that with the release of _Thornhill_, he thought that the Canadian music industry may again be ready for Moxy Fruvous, and the touring schedule would reflect that thought for the _Thornhill_ tour. The bottom line is that touring is how the band makes money, and with the media reversal post-_Bargainville_ in Canada, the United States brought in crowds and the money it takes to keep them on the road. With the grassroots success they were seeing, they also found a growing fanbase that was very dedicated, in addition to some already dedicated Canadian fans. With _Thornhill_, it seems the band has branched out to a much larger area. Where they used to play 2 or 3 (and sometimes 4) times in some of their favorite cities, they now cover more area. They have toured in 98 and 99 in Western Canada and down the West Coast of the United States, including dates in Colorado. [Colleen Campbell's answer circa early-1998, from the original FAQ] Whooboy. Touchy question, but one that deserves at least an attempt at an answer on a FAQ, as it's been a frequently-asked-and-endlessly-discussed question on the newsgroup. Thus, a caveat: the writer of this FAQ, like the people reading it, is a person with an opinion which is informed by the facts she has gathered (definitely not all the facts on the matter which exist) and which does not necessarily represent the only answer or even the correct answer, if there is one. If you find this answer demeaning, offensive, or incorrect, please remember that it is not intended to be so and may not address your personal experience or beliefs in the matter. Given that, then: Fruvous is a band which had what Murray has called "meteoric" popularity in Canada with their indie tape and _Bargainville_: the former went gold and the latter went platinum. They covered Canada thoroughly on their "Bargainville" tour, but barely dipped into their southern neighbor, even in 1994, when the album was released in the States. Their following at the time, though, wasn't one known for longevity of interest or loyalty, consisting at least in part of "teenyboppers" who were more attracted to Fruvous' novelty work. Songs like "King of Spain" received a lot more attention than songs like "Fell in Love" did. In the States, though, there was little media attention to or radio play from _Bargainville_, so when the album was heard, it was probably taken more as a whole, novelty and serious songs both. When _Wood_ came out, the media machine didn't go into play as it had before in Canada, nor was audience response the same: the album hit only #35, Fruvous was playing to much smaller crowds, and there was little notice of it by critics, as there had been for _Bargainville_. In short, Fruvous probably felt like Canadian audiences had rejected it. In the States, although the album wasn't released, the songs from it were received as "another side of Fruvous" during concerts: audiences tended to have fewer expectations about Fruvous' "novelty" work than in Canada. So Fruvous built up a stronger base of support while touring to promote _Wood_ in America. Canadian media and audiences don't seem to be as aware that Fruvous is a group of evolution and experimentation, that they are not just "the band who went platinum back in '94"; meanwhile, in the States, the response to and coverage of Fruvous has been increasing since then. And America is a relatively new and fertile ground to till, for them: a place where they're still forging a name for themselves and can attract a new following, which is important for a band of their stature to do. They have been well-received at even the largest folk festivals in America, selling out of albums at both Falcon Ridge Folk Festival and Philly Folk Festival. This is not to say that they aren't appreciated in Canada (Dave reports that both nations are "duly impressed" with the latest [You Will Go To The Moon] album), or that this trend of fewer concerts there will continue indefinitely: just that Fruvous seems to be responding to their increasing popularity in the States by "giving the people what they ask for." 9) Why does the band frequently play at restricted venues that don't allow underage people in? They do not play age-restricted venues because the band hates all underage fans. That's simply not true. Moxy Fruvous, in addition to being an incredible band and 4 wonderful people, is a business and the livelihood of those 4 members (and other people who work with the band). They need to make money, and they do mainly by playing a lot of gigs across this continent. They, like many bands, have a booking agent that gets them gigs so that, in addition to writing wonderful music and thinking up silly characters, the band doesn't have to worry about calling clubs, arranging contracts, and making sure they are getting paid what they should. Many times, due to the economy of the live music industry, the only place to play in a given town on a given night is a bar. And, due to local, state or provincial, or national laws, there are just some rules that need to be obeyed. Age restriction is a big one. If this is still worrying you, or you want information about the above, read Appendix A right now. It's a detailed account from a different perspective of why age-restricted shows happen. All that said, what can you, the underage fan, do about it? Please do your research. Find some other venues in your area that regularly play all-ages shows and get that information to the band (most likely through MFHQ - moxy@passport.ca ). They will get that info to the right people, and it may work. It also may not. Just please keep in mind that when there is an age-restricted show, it isn't to spite you in particular or underage fans in general. It's usually because the club wants it that way and in order to play the club, the band abides by their rules. If you haven't read Appendix A yet, go do it. 10) There seems to be frequent mention of taping at Fruvous shows and trading of those tapes. What's the band's policy on that? Well, obviously, the newsgroup respects Fruvous's right to their own music and performances, and fans would not tape against their wishes. Those interested should first look around at a show. If there are any other tapers there setting up, strike up a conversation and get to know them and what rules they abide by. If no one is visibly taping there, asking Cal Stanutz (the front of house sound engineer) or Dave Tobey (the road manager) is often easier than locating one of Fruvous before a show. The band currently allows and appreciates taping for non-commercial use on a personal level. The best way to get into taping Fruvous is to talk to other tapers at a show. Many of them know the band's position on things and may have tips and tricks on levels, show length, and board feeds. Most Fruvous tapers are very friendly beasts that would love someone to talk to about their myriad of gear. In dissemination of taped live shows, Fruvous prefers one-on-one trades. No profit is to be made of the privilege of taping their shows. Personal trading encourages a bit of accountability and it is recommended that you have purchased all the commercially available albums before getting into tape trading. There have been two Moxy Fruvous tape trees in the past. The first, disseminating a show from the Iron Horse in Northampton, August of 1995, was run by John Greene. The second, taped in New York City in December of 1996, was run by Jason Reiser. Both shows are widely available; ask for them, and you'll likely get a friendly Fruhead to tape one for you. There are, of course, many other live shows available, and many people are eager to trade or acquire them, so keep your eyes open and feel free to ask if you're looking for a particular show for your own personal use. FHDC ( http://www.fruhead.com ) has a section set up for finding tape traders. It provides quick info on people who collect shows and are willing to trade with new people. It also has a quick search engine that will search lists for specific shows. Please don't offer to pay someone (in money, extra tapes, or anything else) in return for copies of Fruvous live shows. This hurts the band and threatens the privilege tapers have to tape the shows. Fruvous allows taping for personal use only, and no one should be profiting off the tapes made with their permission. 11) Is there any connection between Moxy Fruvous and the soft drink Moxie? Nope. In fact, the guys have made derogatory remarks about the drink. Don't expect any cross-over advertising campaigns any time soon. Nor is there any connection between the '70s group Moxie, the '90s group Moxy, or the group Mox. 12) I ordered my merchandise four weeks ago from Fruvous and I haven't received it yet. What gives? Welcome to the world of shipping. Most ordering services stipulate that you'll receive your order within six to eight weeks, and Fruvous is no different. It'll take up to a week to receive your order, a few more weeks to get it processed and shipped back, and then a week or two more to receive your package. When customs is involved, other delays are likely as well. If you're concerned, though, that your merchandise seems to be taking an abnormally long time, you'd do well to contact MFHQ directly and ask for yourself. They're very busy, so if you need a quick reply, a call to (416) 368-5599 will probably yield better results than attempting to resolve the situation via email. 13) What's the best thing I can do to help support the band? The absolute best thing you can do to help support the band is to tell all your friends about them. If you feel that Moxy Fruvous is the best thing since sliced bread, tell your friends. Sit them down and ask them to take a listen to a song you think they'll like. Take them to a live show and let Fruvous do the selling for you. You can do the normal fan things. Go to Fruvous shows (and don't forget to invite friends). Buy Fruvous albums for yourself. You can also do the abnormal fan things that many Fruvous fans and Fruheads do. Drive to see that show in the next town over. Drive to see that show in the next Province over. Arrange your work flights so that you have a convenient stop-over in a city where Fruvous is playing that night. Please request Moxy Fruvous at your favorite (and least favorite) radio stations. If you are familiar with radio formats, AAA stations would probably be best. Call them up and request your favorite song or the current single off the newest album. If they give you the line about not having the album, email MFHQ ( moxy@passport.ca ) and give them the information about the station you called. They can make sure that a promo copy of some Fruvous stuff has been sent or will be sent there. Make the radio stations know that people out there want to hear Moxy Fruvous. When you go into a record store, check for Fruvous albums. Some people even go so far as to helpfully rearrange the albums so that the more important bands (i.e. Moxy Fruvous) are up front. We here at the FAQ don't condone this behavior, but do what you like! If you don't see any Moxy Fruvous CDs there at the store, ask them to order some for you. It'll give them an idea that people want to buy Fruvous albums. If you already own the disc, just tell them you found it at their competitor's store already in stock and bought it there, but thank them for ordering it for you and reassure them you'll check there next for other Moxy Fruvous albums now that they've gotten their act together. Also, you can forward record store info to MFHQ ( moxy@passport.ca ) and they can get that info to the record label so they can use that information to get the album well distributed. Each person's work in helping and supporting the band is important. Moxy Fruvous was built upon grassroots efforts and friendly word of mouth and that comes from you. Keep up the good work! 14) What's the story behind "The Troc"? What happened? The Troc, or the Trocadero, is a club in downtown Philadelphia. Philly is a very Fruvous-friendly town and the home of WXPN. Fruvous plays many large sold out shows in Philly and it's one of their biggest markets, largely thanks to the support WXPN gives them through airplay and promotion. The band has played in the area for years. FDC tracks shows back to 1994 at the Tin Angel. In 1996, they started playing in Philly at the TLA, the Theatre of Living Arts, a much larger venue than the Tin Angel and a symbol of their success in the Philadelphia area. After 3 gigs in the next year at the TLA (including one of the shows recorded for the _Live Noise_ album), the band had outgrown even that venue. The next choice of venues was the Trocadero. It was significantly larger than the TLA, but still the show was sold out even before the day of the show. Yet another statement of the Philly area's love for Fruvous. That Trocadero show on February 6th, 1999 is a show that will live in infamy in many Frufan minds. The show itself was a very good show. The larger venues carry better lighting and sound equiptment allowing for the band to rock out a bit. But the place was packed solid for the most part and there were long waits while your elbows jabbed your neighbor and the person behind you breathed down your neck. The opener, the Butch Ross Band, started playing before even half the line had come in yet there was an interminable wait between sets stirring the crowd up. But still, Fruvous pulled everyone together with an incredible set. After the show was a different story. The club, well within it's rights but entirely against the spirit of a Moxy Fruvous show, proceeded to quickly and forcefully push the entire crowd out the doors. People trying to get Frumiles stamps from Tobey were hurried. People trying to purchase Fruvous CDs or shirts were hurried. People waiting patiently to get autographs because they knew the band was coming out to give them were hurried, various members of the club's security staff yelling the entire time. It is understandable that the staff wants to go home after a show, but the way the fans were treated was unacceptable. Many fans ended up out on the sidewalks on a February night waiting (some vocally), while the security staff attempted to even force them off the sidewalk in front of the building. One by one, as each band member realized what had happened, they came out to the front of the venue to sign autographs and chat with fans. The band apologized for the actions of the venue and cheerfully talked and signed, even after a long show after a long day. But, when the band wanted to go back inside, the security had locked them out as well! Once someone came out, someone else caught the door and held it open so the band could get back inside when needed and eventually everyone went home with a sour taste in their mouths thanks to the security staff and policies of the Trocadero. The next day, the newsgroup began to fill with discussions of the show and disgust at how paying customers of the venue were treated. Many called for boycotts of the Trocadero and expressed wishes that Moxy Fruvous never play there again. The show reviews on FDC represent a taste of the discussions ( http://www.fruvous.com/99rev/990206.html ). After a day full of complaints on the newsgroup, Jian posted an official apology from the band, management, and crew for the staff at the Trocadero and promised that the band will not play the Trocadero in Philadelphia ever again (instead he offered the idea of playing multiple TLA shows even though the venue is much smaller). The incident received press in the Philly area ( http://www.fruvous.com/news/990211nw.html ). With no suitable venue in Philadelphia itself, the next Philly area show came in November 1999 - a sold-out show at the Keswick Theater about 20 minutes outside Philly. Section: Mike, Murray, Jian, and Dave 1) On stage, who is who? In standard position, the lads on stage are (from left to right): Murray, Jian, Mike, Dave. Murray wears the stylish shirts and usually is found playing the bass. Jian is the self-proclaimed (and born that way) "brown guy" with black curls usually behind the stand-up drum kit. Mike is the crazy Kirk Cameron looking guy usually found with a guitar. Lastly, Dave is the bald one with the accordion, banjo, or guitar. From their standard positions on stage, stage left (or left when you are standing on stage looking at the audience) has been deemed "Stage Dave" while stage right has been called "Stage Murray." People standing towards the middle can be "Stage Jian" and "Stage Mike." 2) Why is Jian's name written as Jean in liner notes and older articles? "Jian Ghomeshi" is the original spelling of his name. When his family moved to Canada in his youth, his mother changed it to "Jean," perhaps because it seemed easier to pronounce that way; but it's always been, officially, "Jian" (including on his driver's license), his friends have always known him as "Jian," and he's been spelling it "Jian" across the board for a good while now. 3) How do you pronounce Jian Ghomeshi? Jian's heritage is Persian (Iranian). It's not possible to exactly reproduce the phonetic sound of his name in English letters, but "ZHEE-on" comes closest (where that ZH is kinda like the Z sound from Zsa Zsa Gabor). Ghomeshi is pronounced like it's spelled - "go-MESH-ee." 4) Is Dave gay? bisexual? How about Murray? Jian? Mike? The matters of the band members' personal lives are NOT something for this FAQ to discuss. The band, being open-minded individuals, do bring up sexual preference occasionally on stage, usually through jokes that may be unsettling to members of the audience that aren't so comfortable with it. The other members of Moxy Fruvous frequently tease Dave onstage about proclivities other than strictly heterosexual. "Lee," from _You Will Go to the Moon_, is sung by Dave and can be interpreted to be voiced by a gay man to a lover dying of AIDS. Dave is usually nodded at by Jian during the word "gays" from the line "paranoid minorities, and gays" from "Greatest Man in America." Jian frequently dons a bright orange shirt proclaiming "I dig your boyfriend" for shows; he also alters lyrics, such as saying "I was looking straight" instead of "straight ahead" in "My Baby Loves a Bunch of Authors." Mike, during a break in "the Kid's Song" where he says "my sister has 3 gender biases" on _the B album_, sometimes says "she's trisexual" live. But the bottom line here is that it is none of your business. If you feel it is your business, take it up with the band members themselves and see what they have to say. It is inappropriate for the newsgroup to discuss such things. [End part 2/4] ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V4 #204 ********************************************