From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #986 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Tuesday, November 30 1999 Volume 03 : Number 986 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: A question for the american fans out there.... ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Prom in Mass [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com)] Re: Where is Frucon? [Josh Drury ] Re: Collingswood (My First Show, The Aaron Story) ["Veronika Berchtold" <] Fw: Where is Frucon? ["Kathleen Cain" ] Sugar in the Snow (was: Re: Review: Boston Somerville!) [srm9988n@aol.com] Collingswoodin' . . . Hey there puddin' . . . ["Kate Leahy" ] re: tangents (was re: rant ... post d.c. show) ["VINCENT G. CICILLINI" ] Re: Where is Frucon? [Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca>] Re: Fruheads unite and..Calm DOWN ["Anna!" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:44:08 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: A question for the american fans out there.... Paul Andrew Arbour (Arbor in American) wrote: > > So basically... being a true canadian, and by that I one that DIDN'T grow > up in Vancouver, Montreal, or Southern Ontario.... I wonder how american > fans find the fruvous quille? > It is obvious that you probably can't understand most of the songs from > the early years, or even those from the last few albums, such as Big > Fish, or River Valley.. > do you skip over these songs, and say to hell with it? or do you listen > to them, just for the musical genius? Must... not... reply... with nasty sarcasm... to... stupid... troll... from... Canadian Hickville... Arrrrggg!!!! Why should any of the Canadian-centric stuff be hard for us to understand? After all as many Canadians are constantly saying, Canada is really only a colony of the US, isn't it? A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 1999 21:19:02 GMT From: askinusa@aol.com (Askinusa) Subject: Collingswood (My First Show, The Aaron Story) Just a personal story any of you might want to hear.... First, let me intoduce myself... I'm Aaron Kirschenfeld, From South Jersey (The Shore), Now in my 3rd year of loving Fruvous.Up untill today I felt half in and half out of themoxy fruvous chain. Enough Intro, My Story.... Well, last night was my first show ever, and it was the absolute best night of my life. I met Jian (and had my pic taken with him), Mike and Murray, but left before Dave came out :-(. I met Karen and a few others there, it was all around cool. I've been on IRC a few times as "Pharaoh" or "Askinusa" and never on the newsgroup. (heh heh, this kinda feels like my first day at a new school) Well just wanted to ask you guys to give me some tips on becoming a "serious" fruhead I guess. Really just wanted to say, "hi, I'm here, wanna get into this stuff, can ya help me out"... Well just sorta rambling, thats all I guess thanks all Aaron Kirsch (Pharaoh) Askinusa@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:12:33 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Where is Frucon? Ambush Bug wrote: > > Two or Three questions: > > 1. Is there a specific hotel where Frucon will be happening next year? > (If so, which one?) There will be a specific "Con Hotel" at which we will try to get reduced rates for attendees. At the moment it is looking like the actual con will not be in a hotel, but that is not totally settled yet. Check out FHDC for info on the con. (http://www.fruhead.com/frucon/) > 2. Which airport is the best for Frucon for Toronto. USair lists 5 > airports. Pearson International (Airport Code YYZ) is the main Toronto Airport. The others are minor airports. Almost all flights that you can book are going to be flying into Pearson. What was the third question? :) A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 1999 21:57:10 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: Prom in Mass Cookie, in a rambling post, said: >Which Minnesota and Wisconsin are you referring to? The American ones >don't really have any hills...oh! Correction. Wisconsin has what my favoritest Massachusetts-bred uncle (on topic! whee!), who now lives in WI, calls "humpies." (I *know*. Don't ask. It's his term not mine.) He fondly compares these to the "humpies" of Pennsylvania and his native MA. By which I can only construe him to mean that to him Wisconsin has not just hills, but what in MA and PA are known as MOUNTAINS. As in Appalachian thingies. It's all relative, I guess. :) - -- Lori ****************** Our mountains are NOT pointy, unlike those of some countries. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:26:22 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: Where is Frucon? Secretly Mike Young wrote: > Thanks for your help. I think the web page listed the same airport a few > times. Here's what it said: > > Airport Code City Name > > YTO TORONTO ON, CANADA > > YBZ TORONTO DOWNTOWN, CANADA > > YKZ TORONTO BUTTNVLLE, CANADA > > YTZ TORONTO CENTER ON, CANADA > > YYZ TORONTO ON, CANADA YYZ is Lester B. Pearson Airport, the major international one. It is also the name of a Rush instrumental, named for the airport. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:53:36 GMT From: "Veronika Berchtold" Subject: Re: Collingswood (My First Show, The Aaron Story) So I just say "welcome!" Veronika | Just a personal story any of you might want to hear.... | First, let me intoduce myself... | I'm Aaron Kirschenfeld, From South Jersey (The Shore), Now in my 3rd year of | loving Fruvous.Up untill today I felt half in and half out of themoxy fruvous | chain. | Enough Intro, My Story.... | Well, last night was my first show ever, and it was the absolute best night of | my life. I met Jian (and had my pic taken with him), Mike and Murray, but left | before Dave came out :-(. I met Karen and a few others there, it was all | around cool. I've been on IRC a few times as "Pharaoh" or "Askinusa" and never | on the newsgroup. (heh heh, this kinda feels like my first day at a new school) | Well just wanted to ask you guys to give me some tips on becoming a "serious" | fruhead I guess. Really just wanted to say, "hi, I'm here, wanna get into this | stuff, can ya help me out"... Well just sorta rambling, thats all I guess | thanks all | | Aaron Kirsch (Pharaoh) | Askinusa@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:41:13 GMT From: "Kathleen Cain" Subject: Fw: Where is Frucon? >Thanks for your help. I think the web page listed the same airport a few >times. Here's what it said: > > Airport Code City Name > > YTO TORONTO ON, CANADA > > YBZ TORONTO DOWNTOWN, CANADA > > YKZ TORONTO BUTTNVLLE, CANADA > > YTZ TORONTO CENTER ON, CANADA > > YYZ TORONTO ON, CANADA > > >I'm not sure that that is helpful. > >Mike > Let me help you with the airports. I work for a major American airline and I have a little knowledge on this. YYZ is the code for Pearson Airport which is where all the major airlines fly into. If you are flying on a jet, this is where you will go. YTO is the travel industry code for the city of Toronto. It isn't an airport at all. YBZ and YKZ do not have commercial travel in or out of them. YTZ has commercial travel, but only Air Ontario, which is a small commuter airline which you have to take out of London, ON. I hope this helps. Be prepared for the long trip into the city. Kathleen ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 1999 21:30:25 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Sugar in the Snow (was: Re: Review: Boston Somerville!) k@ said: >> Does anyone know if Mike is of French Canadian heritage? The answer seems >obvious, >> but I wonder if anyone is sure about this? > >From what I've heard, it seems that Mike was actually born in the United >States (Michigan), but he's definitely got a lotta that French/Canadian >upbringing, apparently. considering he thanks the "Ford-Rochon diaspora" on Bargainville, I'd say his bloodline runs somewhat Quebecois. >k@ >read about that maple-sugar-in-the-snow thing as a kid in some outdated >"children of many lands" books I've done this! It's quite the indigenous-cultural event. One goes to a cabane a sucre ("sugar shack" en anglais) sometime in late February/early March when the sap is running (at least in eastern Ontario/western Quebec), way out in the countryside. It's not really a shack at all, but more a barnlike structure with long tables, a dance area, etc. One has the option of taking a horsedrawn sleigh ride around the maple farm, ie woods. All the trees are tapped and there are little blue plastic tubes leading from each to a central sap-gathering vat. The proprietors boil down the sap to syrup. Inside there is lots of breakfast-type and dessert-type food, pretty much all of which can be doused with maple syrup. (some combos can seem quite weird to those not accustomed to the practice.) And outside they have wooden troughs filled with snow, in which one pours maple syrup, which forms a taffylike substance in the cold, and twirls it around on a popsicle stick in order to consume it. And then one diets (or dances and skis and cuts logs all day) for the next month. ;) - -- Lori ***************** we have rocks and trees and trees and rocks and rocks and trees and trees and rocks and rocks and trees and trees and rocks and rocks and trees and trees and rocks and water ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:33:49 -0500 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Collingswoodin' . . . Hey there puddin' . . . Review 11/29/99 Ah. What a *show*. Yay. So it was the day before my birthday (my birthday being today), and I headed up to my adolescent stomping grounds to see Früvous in a building the exterior of which I had oft admired in high school but the interior of which I had never seen. It was mucho nice. The ceiling of the place had a stained-glass-looking thing on it that evidently had lights in it that moved or changed colors or something. It was a beautiful room, and they had a backdrop down straight out of "Into the Woods." Surprisingly, there were no comments in that vein. The mayor of Collingswood opened the show saying that the concert was one in a series of actions to bring more cultural events to South Jersey. Way to go Mayor Maley. As I told Murray later, there's really not a whole hell of a lot to do in that area aside from getting drunk and going bowling, an activity that I recommended to him for his day off. Anyway, after Mayor Maley, Michaela Majoun (wow, nifty alliteration) came out to say that because there was no opener scheduled, XPN had scrounged up some local talent to play. I knew immediately what was going on. Mike came out and said "So, Y2K, eh?" He talked a bit about the end of the millennium and then launched into a hilarious tune mostly about beanie babies but really about people who buy collectibles and sit around waiting for them to be valuable. Wonderful. Murray was next and said that he played bass in the band, and so anything on guitar for him was like "an away game." I beg to differ . . . his solo on Pisco is quite awesome, I think :). Anyway, he said that he plays guitar in a style he likes to call "ambitious." And then got a note from the low-E string and started "Bittersweet," accompanying himself. When he got to the solo, he kind of stumbled through it, but sounded fine. "This is the ambitious part," he said. It was a beauty nonetheless. Dave came on-stage with a notebook and said "I'm sittin' down." He threw the notebook on the ground, and pulled up a chair. "Got a cheat sheet," he said. "Don't wanna use it." He sounded bizarrely like George Bush senior. That ended as soon as he started the song. It was a gorgeous song (an original, I suppose) based around a bluegrass-style fingerpicked guitar line. I guess I would call it "You Remind Me"; that was the repeated hook. I hope he plays it again so I can remember some of the lyrics . . . it was truly amazing. Jian came out to some hoots and hollars, mostly 'cause he was wearing a black tank top. He introduced himself "Hi. I'm Jian. I boycott Starbucks." Then he told a fairly long story about how a friend had picked him up the night before and suggested they go to Starbucks. Jian refused, so they ended up drinking shit coffee at a diner. Anyway, once that was done, Jian said that the band gets a lot of letters, but some tend to stick out. Then he related the story of Kevin's letter and played a truly lovely, impassioned rendition of "I Will Hold On." It was a really great moment. He then said that Früvous would be on in two minutes. The setlist has been posted, so I'll just stick in a few comments here and there. - -After Jockey, Jian said "It's an honor to be playing in New Jersey. You know what's great about the people in Jersey? Straightforward." He proceded to tell a long story (with backup music - first some folky fingerpicking then some electric blues) about having to go to the chiropractor and getting lost. As he told the story, he mentioned that he pulled into a gas station and (acting like a "man's man") asked directions to Route 73. He even did a little "man's man" walk :). He mentioned Route 73 and got some cheers. Then he mentioned a meeting with some "Jersey punks" (in Devils hats, which caused a group of people in Flyers hats with Flyers banners to stand up and scream for a while) and said that he had gotten lost by taking the wrong Church Road and was looking for Academy. My father and I exchanged a look and a laugh; my parents' house is about four miles from the intersection they were discussing, and we knew exactly what he was talking about [1]. - -Boss and Spidey were performed in the audience. Jian borrowed an empty chair from the front row to stand on for the first verse. Then he jumped down and they took to running around the room, ending up back at the front. Before the song, they asked if the lights could be turned up, and the light guy did something with the stained-glass looking thing. They all expressed their awe and asked to see it again, but to no avail. Jian became transfixed on a thing in the audience that some kid had. Evidently, it was some sort of LCD device where you could type a word into a pad and swing a projector around in a circle in the air and display said word. He had it set to Moxy. He turned it off when it became evident that Jian couldn't take his eyes off of it. Murray introed Spidey by saying that all a guy needed to be a superhero in days of old was a tight blue suit and a cape that his mom knit for him. Nowadays, one needs a plasma ray and chains shooting out of his eyes. During Spidey, Mike made a pointed comment to the Flyers people that his favorite thing to do was kick peoples heads in. No one in particular. "Where's that dickhead with the flashlight?" he said. The kid went nuts. "Jesus," said Mike. "'I'm the dickhead, I'm the dickhead!'" "Spidey's got a plasma ray . . . in his pants!" - -At some point, Mike related the story of his search for a story on the CFL's Gray Cup in the USA Today Sports section. Hamilton was victorious, 32-21. Eventually, Mike found a story with a headline about Hamilton - but it turned out to be the last name of some college hoops player. A lovely, lovely show altogether. *So* glad I made the trip. Also glad 'cause I got to drive my dad's new car :). See you in NoHo? ~~Kate [1] It's probably the weirdest intersection in South Jersey. It's in Mount Laurel; Church Road and Church Street intersect. Medford-Evesboro Road also comes in. It's ugly. - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 1999 21:45:42 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: OT: Pat Buchanan Kevin announced: > >just checking to see if I have my newsreader setup right. >why are you reading this anyway? Because Pat Buchanan is a nice man too. On Thursdays. :) - -- Lori ********************** 295 messages to go ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:28:06 GMT From: Bridget Subject: Re: Collingswoodin' . . . Hey there puddin' . . . - --- Kate Leahy wrote: > Review 11/29/99 > > Mike came out and said "So, Y2K, eh?" He > talked a bit about the end of the > millennium and then launched into a hilarious > tune mostly about beanie > babies but really about people who buy > collectibles and sit around waiting > for them to be valuable. Wonderful. Nice review, Kate! This is too cool... on one of my Mike setlists (from Mnpls, methinks) there are some handwritten lyrics about Y2K and beanie babies... hmm... Did anyone by chance tape the show? I'd love to get a copy of that song! E-mail me if you can help... Thanks! ===== over 'n' out xoxoxo bridget "The reason he's the greatest quarterback of all time is that he's a robot. C'mon, anyone can see it!" ~Murray 10/29/99, on John Elway (o; __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:01:47 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: Fruheads unite and..Calm DOWN What PR machine? peace, - -mm- who thinks that everyone should read the fabulous expose on the PR industry "Toxic Sludge is Good for You." > [1] i make an assumption on this part based on what the band's PR > machine puts out. > -A. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:52:35 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: Fruheads unite and..Calm DOWN Hear, hear. - -maryam, who is only replying to this post because she must, *not* because she wants to be back in this horrible thread in any way, shape, or form! :) - oh yeah, peace! P.S. Thank you Ross, whoever you are, for helping me out in my futile struggle to make this a semi-balanced argument. But I'm out of the thread ... really! Really! > "show etiquette", "more teenagers"?! Since when was being a teenager > such a bad thing. IME older fans are just as likely to act stupidly as > younger fans. If anything, younger fans are quieter as they are scared > of the "more seasoned fans". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:30:33 GMT From: "Kathleen Cain" Subject: Fw: Sugar in the Snow (was: Re: Review: Boston Somerville!) k@ said: >>read about that maple-sugar-in-the-snow thing as a kid in some outdated >>"children of many lands" books Actually, I read about it in "Little House in the Big Woods". You know. The first book in the Laura Ingalls Wilder series. Just as a weird aside, my whole family was into those books and we visited most of the places she lived. Ask Cookie if you don't believe me. Kathleen la di da di da ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:19:03 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: "sports" Tracey Kast wrote: > I noticed this for the first time at the 9:30 again, and thought it was just > a one-time thing. Then I saw Jian do this again at Rochester, but didn't > clue in on anything. I prepared myself for it in Ottawa, but all I could > catch were a few words near the end. . . > > "(on the?)lamb" and "can of spam" or "spam can" You aren't perchance thinking of the bridge in Minnie the Moocher where, to the best of my lyrical understanding, the words are: Clever Evan Harrison, the reigning mutton baron, Packed a lamb in saran, saran. How is Clever Evan ever gonna get to heaven If he keeps turning lamb into spam in a can. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:56:10 GMT From: "VINCENT G. CICILLINI" Subject: re: tangents (was re: rant ... post d.c. show) ... and vc makes three, k@ and spin0za. oy. wow. i really know what you two mean, when it comes to feeling out of place. when do we finally fit in? in k@'s words, when is there jam today? > Wow, someone else has a sister like that too. i have similar feelings. while i didn't get berated from a sibling, i used to get that from my father, all the time. i was a constant embarrassment. i'm out in the world, walking around with his last name (i was adopted, so i sure wasn't worthy of being named after him.), constantly bringing disrespect to the family name. this does wonders for a child's self-esteem, let me tell you. > > At Fruvous concerts I sing and I dance and I sometimes make an ass of > > myself and feel awful later... but for that moment I'm free. I can > > fly. I'm myself and it's okay. spin0za, that comment just brought tears to my eyes. when fruvous is playing, their music transports me to a place where i don't feel self-conscious, at all. i'm just like everybody else, no better or no worse. i actually feel human at fruvous shows, instead of feeling like some wretched creature, one of the botched and bungled. > > Moxy Fruvous is something that I can love and get excited about and > > when I go to a concert that comes out.... I'm not allowed to be alive > > anywhere else. I'm terrified of offending people. Terrified to the > > point of paralyzing panic sometimes. spin0za, i've actually started shying away from talking to the lads, because i've felt like the last they want is to hear yet another person, saying, "wow. great show. thanks for coming.", instead of something more intelligible and articulate. > I've often thought that there's no better feeling than knowing your not > just a spectator at a show but a participant, surrounded by others who > understand and feel the same way, not having to explain yourself. And > there's no worse feeling than coming down after a show, wondering if > you've committed a terrible faux pas of overstepped some unspoken > boundary. But then you start looking forward to the next show and > anticipating the euphoria again, and so on...but I'm sure I'm sharing > too much here. now, it's k@'s turn to bring tears to my eyes. k@, the coming starts as early as walking out of the venue, for me. i've awaken and thought, "now, what did do to step on someone's toes?" this past weekend, while many people were having fun in rochester/montreal/ottawa, i was home, thinking, "nobody wanted me in their plans for this weekend. am i really that annoying?" i also thought about writing an open letter to ammf, and apologizing for any trangressions i may have committed. i seriously thought about disappearing from the fruhead community, giving up going to shows, altogether, just so i wouldn't pi$$ yet another person off. seeing fruvous is one of the few things that bring me indescribable joy. yet, i'd be willing to give it up to avoid hurting somebody else. i often feel like a bull in a china shop, in these situations. > > Moxy doesn't owe my anything. They've kept me breathing without even > > knowing it... i agree, spin0za. they've also been responsible in bringing together an amazing community of people. people that may not have gotten to know each other, without fruvous. i'm still kicking myself for not being able to get out to colorado, to hang with k@, tom, bridget, joe, debbie, and donna. rats. getting to talk with k@ and bridget, when they came to the detroit/chicago/milwaukee shows, still rates as one of my favorite memories, since discovering moxy fruvous. thank you, k@! 8-) the world is a much better place with you two in it. 8-) you two have made me realize that sometimes, we may feel like we're alone, even in a community such as the fruheads, but we should still hang in there, because, one person's experiences can reverberate in another person. we need to be there for each other. thank you, both, for being there. also, thank you for your words, as they mean so much to me. your kindness and sensitivity have touched my heart. i look forward to seeing you out there, in our journeys to come. moxy wishes and fruvous dreams. ciao--vc ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 1999 23:51:25 GMT From: Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: Where is Frucon? Actually, that's not quite true... the Toronto City Centre (or island) airport does have smaller flights coming in from the US. But I think they're only really little airlines. But Pearson, despite being officially in the middle of nowhere is pretty much the only place you're going to be able to get in or out of. :) Veronica - -- *************************************************************************** "Never look at the trombones; | Veronica Gruneberg it only encourages them." | Dept. of Biology - Richard Strauss | Queen's University | Kingston, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:34:00 GMT From: "Anna!" Subject: Re: Fruheads unite and..Calm DOWN This is mostly in response to what Luella (my associate in snack-cake mockery) wrote. > Because, yes I look about 17 (I'm 23), because I'm blonde (are all fishgirls blonde?), > because I don't dress > in jeans and tee-shirts when I go to concerts (I don't get out all > that much, and it seems to offend some people that I choose to dress > up for some shows), because I do often prefer to wait in the long Jian > line after a show than to seek out Dave or Mike. I would be willing to > bet that at least some of you would think of me this way just based on > what you saw; but those of you who know me: am I a fishgirl? I know Luella, and I have to say that she is one of the most down to earth, thoughtful, fun, intelligent, and nicest people I have ever met - at a show or otherwise. Yes, I joke with her about wearing capris pants, but it's in good fun, mostly because I'm a little jealous that I can't get away with it myself :) And yes, I have met a fair share of girls who have come right out and told me that they come to the shows 'just to see Jian' - but I've met an equal (and probably greater) amount of people who simply think that he is a friendly and caring person. Keep in mind, nobody is *forcing* him to come out and sign autographs. He's doing it because he knows that it makes the fans happy. And think about it - if he wanted to use the bands popularity as a way to get dates - he would probably be just as succesful even if he didn't make the effort to come greet so many people after shows. My point isn't Jian's dating life though, my point is that it isn't fair to judge him, or people who choose to speak to him after shows, ar anyone at all for that matter. Not only is it not fair, but there are much more constructive things to waste one's time pondering over. >> SnowInSummer wrote: >> i mean, reality check: the single members of Fruvous would most >> likely *not* "date" or even sleep with a fan, just out of common >> sense. it would only perpetuate the whole groupie presence & if the >> band is really concerned w/ what the Fruheads/Frufans think... they >> know [1] we would have some issue with it. I, for one, certainly hope that the band never, ever takes into consideration their fans feelings when it comes to living their personal lives. I have absolutely no issue with who a band member chooses to date. I mean, I come to the shows to listen to cool music, not keep tabs on their personal life. If I wanted to do that, I could just show up after the concert was over. It would sure save me a hell of a lot of money buying tickets to shows. Although, there is a somewhat valid point there: There are fans who would have issue with their personal life decisions. To agree with what Luella already said, we have no right to know anything about their lives. For all we know, their names are not really even Murray, Mike, Jian, and Dave. (Well, that *is* actually true, but you get my point.) I know that gossip can be amusing and interesting, but it reaches a point where it becomes less fun and more harmful. I've learned that the hard way many times with my own friends. I guess I find it ironic that the same people who are so obviously concerned with band members' personal lives are the ones who will feel the most hurt when the band stops facilitating such a close relationship with fans, and wonder most vocally 'what the hell happened?' I'm also probably preaching to the choir buy this point, as those who think I'm completely off-base have already skipped this post. Anyway, I've made my ineffectual point, and I can go back into hiding. - -anna- "So shoot me down again, It wont hurt when the killing is done by a friend." -kent ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #986 ********************************************