From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #969 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, November 24 1999 Volume 03 : Number 969 Today's Subjects: ----------------- re: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show [CheesemonkeyGem ] Re: brain droppings.... long ["KatieWow" ] Re: additions to DC reviews [Amanda.K.Potter@Dartmouth.EDU (Amanda K. Pot] Re: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show ["Tim Swallow" ] RANT(kinda long) - and request for opinions [Lynne ] Re: rochester show [Lynne ] Re: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show ["D. Vacca" ] Re: additions to DC reviews [fruwench@aol.com (FruWench)] Re: RANT - and request for opinions - Post DC show [fruwench@aol.com (Fru] 1/1/00 Tix For Sale [Josh Harriman ] Democrat and Chronicle ["Anuszewski, Angela" ] OT: Isn't it scary? [jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (Neil Bardhan)] Re: additions to DC reviews [fruwench@aol.com (FruWench)] RE: Democrat and Chronicle ["Wood, Nancy" ] Re: fruvous on wber tonight! [limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (gloria stits)] Fw: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show ["Kathleen Cain" ] Re: brain droppings.... long [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead d] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 05:35:34 GMT From: CheesemonkeyGem Subject: re: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show >A Fruvous concert is like sex, see. If it's done >right, nothing >will ever surpass the first time... Don't you mean: a fruvous concert is like sex... even if it's bad it's still pretty damn good!! (or something) - -jen (couldn't resist ;) ===== ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Take me to your litre! -MC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 05:37:54 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: my Sahara Soliloquy Mmmmm. That's one reason why the 5-6-7 triple whammy on YWGTTM is soooo delectable. You've to Sahara, which = bliss, + Lee, which = Dave's voice - -need-I-say-more, and then No No Raja. And of course, then comes Murray. Life, death, and then ... Murray! lalalalala ... peace - -mm- "There's a man who wears brown shirts." -WTGM.com << In Ellenland, this song is often played as a Raja->Sahara-> Raja sandwich. They've already done the Sahara-> Raja part before (until the last time I went back and listened to the 3/97 Iron Horse show, I had managed to convince myself that I'd thought of this on my own). Anyway, it can be done and it would sound magnificent, I think. You'd start with the normal Raja beginning, then after the "I want it stupid" verse, trail off into "Lai lai lai lai"s and then into a nice long dumbek/bass jam. You pick up Sahara from this jam. Then Sahara fades back into dumbek again and you pick Raja back up at the "lai lai"s, just before the "for Raja..." line. Oh my, are you guys getting chills too? >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 05:31:59 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: RANT - and request for opinions - Post DC show to jump in on this topic ... I think both sides are right. [1]It's forgiveable (my new favorite word!) that the enthusiastic fans decided to do their own post-show encore. It's even more forgiveable (2 rhymes!) if, as someone wrote, they were quite in-tune. But if you and other people felt it spoiled MF's *actual* encore and ruined the near-religious mood of the end of the show, you were justified in yelling at them. You're not giving a bad name to anyone, because plenty of other fans are dissing themselves by screaming fo KoS every show and a half. If you were offended, the chances are other people were offended, and it probably won't happen again. peace, - -mm- quite frightened by the "frozen-old-man" commercial for CheckOut.com. Geez. :) [1] yep, way to sit the fence. but that's what fences are for. << But now that I'm down again, what would others have thought? I did NOT interact other than yelling "get over it", I simply seethed quietly. I don't hate them, I just think they were unbearable rude and offensive. Am I a Snobbish FruHead, giving a bad name to FruHeads everywhere by dissing other fans? Or was this truely an offensive thing for them to do? >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:42:57 -0500 From: "MJ (truztno1)" Subject: Re: Review: Keswick Theatre, PA, 11/19/99 Lori at fruhead dot com wrote: > Something that wasn't noted: the Keswick became somewhat of an echo > chamber on > some songs, which I thought sounded AWESOME on Indy Day. As if Murray were > harmonizing with himself. It was dark and slow and edgy and .... *swoon*. > > The effect didn't work nearly as well on Splatter Splatter, but I guess you > can't have everything. Just a quick note before I become truly sleep-deprived- I'm pretty sure that it had something to do with manually controlling the sound board and/or mics..... as my mom pointed out, the guys had a tendency to go up to the sound board located stage left and change mics whenever it was a "solo"-type song, i.e. Independence Day or MPG. They may have changed mics because some of them were screwed up, or for other reasons, but I definately agree with the people who said that it had to do with the sound system and not the acoustics of the theater (it's pretty much near impossible to get an echo on some songs, yet not others when you have a full house...) Sorry to be nit-picky, but I couldn't resist. : ) ~truztno1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 05:25:30 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: brain droppings.... long <<::looks around for Mariam::>> Hi there! Woohoo, Maryam over here. Hey, I'm going to combine several emails here and probably anger a lot of sitting Früheads in the process, so bear w/ me. :) I promise I won't bite. :deep breath: Ok ... With all due respect to adult Fruheads, I'd like to speak up for the younger crowd that doesn't require painkillers or a seat and would prefer to dance. (My sympathies to the seated ones, but ...) In response to: <> I understand. Some of us can be complete assholes, and I'll be the first to agree that there are way too many shallow obnoxious teenagers out there. However, some of us are really quite friendly, and if you talk to us, we'd like to get to know you. (As for myself, I greatly respect and admire *some* adults and think they are the coolest people in the world.) So please don't denounce our whole species. Give us another chance .... :) << And then when the dance number's over, for God's sake SIT BACK DOWN!!!! if the show isn't over. It IS rude to those behind, who paid very good money for their seats, to have their views blocked in a seated venue. It's not like they can just shift THEIR position so that they can see better -- they're in their assigned space, and if they stood up so as to see better over the heads of the dancers, then they're being as inconsiderate to those behind them as the standers/dancers are being to them. >> While I am familiar with the ethical dilemma, I just want to let you know that we are trying not to offend anyone. We're just trying to have a good time, and unlike a lot of over-21-with-paying-jobs-and-driving/cars adults, a Früvous show is a really rare event that we would want to make the most of. If that means that we stay standing and dancing even after the obvious "dance numbers," can you forgive our youthful energy and enthusiasm? For some people, the best way to enjoy a show is seated. For others - and for teenagers are a big part of the others - a standing or dancing show offers more options. We're not *trying* to inflict emotional damage or anything, we are trying to enjoy the show because a lot of us don't have that many concerts under our belts. (Also, we're flighty and immature and all sorts of other awful things. But am I digressing?) << I really saw no reason for scores of people to be dancing in the orchestra pit and along the center aisles AFTER Disco Bargainville ended. And yes, I and a bunch of others told them so. >> I have to disagree. I think it's perfectly all right, especially if a lot of other people do it. I sense that there's a kind of war, between the "pro-dance" people and the "bunch of others." The fact that we're trying our best (like the Cheesemonkey with her disabled seating dilemma) might make us kind of annoyed when people "tell us so." I'm probably sounding very bitchy, but :tries on her best Frubitch voice: just because you don't want to dance doesn't mean we shouldn't or can't. (Whoo, now I've said it.) Sometimes a gal just has to dance :) I suppose the same goes for standing. << Besides, it's perfectly possible to dance in one's seat.>> Thank you! I'm a big fan of dancing in one's seat. Sometimes, though, it just reminds me of some form of soft-core-aroebics. Don't ask. ;0) [Apologies to all seat-dancers [1] I've offended. ] peace (and peaches!) - -maryam- P.S. I've noticed that the older you get, the more of the people who surround you are younger. If that made sense. Also, you sort of stop sympathizing with the younger people, whereas when you were younger you resolved "never to treat anyone in the horrible and cruel and unfair way" *you* were treated :) Childhood. [1] lap-dancers just wouldn't work in this situation, now would it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:01:52 -0500 From: "Novac" Subject: my new tshirt The subject on this post brought to mind some lyrics: "Your new t-shirt's a bit...of a tight knit fit." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:46:38 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: brain droppings.... long >just because you don't want to dance >doesn't mean we shouldn't or can't. (Whoo, now I've said it.) Sometimes a >gal just has to dance :) I suppose the same goes for standing. Well, I don't really know that that's the issue. Certainly I wanted to dance. I refrained, however, because it wasn't a standing/dancing type venue. And hey, dance all you want - in the side aisles or in the back - or like that cute couple in the front corner by the organ/coffin. I just don't understand why dancing needs to take place in the middle aisles or at the front of the theater. It seems to me that it's less spontaneous joy than desire to be noticed by the band. There was a large lobby in the back and side aisles both of which provided a nice view and ample, non-intrusive dance space. The moral of the story is, you *can* dance and minimize annoyance :). ~~Kate - -- i can either rap or bust a move--you'll have to pick. maybe i'll just rock the mic. - --murray foster, 2.22.99 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 06:26:21 GMT From: Amanda.K.Potter@Dartmouth.EDU (Amanda K. Potter) Subject: Re: additions to DC reviews Carey Farrell wrote: <> www.jiankillscats.com - --- "^kat^" wrote: ok, so i'm an internet nerd & clicked on this link. i was pleasantly surprised to find that it exists... and even more amused as to what it linked *to*. either that, or this monstrous piece of machinery is playing tricks on me. *kicks computer* - --- end of quote --- Oh my dear goodness! Does anyone know a story behind this? =) the sleep-deprived Amanda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:53:39 -0500 From: "Tim Swallow" Subject: Re: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show Actually there are two takes on this one: If you're a guy, the worst you've ever had was wonderful. If you're a gal, the worst you've ever had was forgettable. CheesemonkeyGem wrote in message news:19991124052716.14061.rocketmail@web119.yahoomail.com... > > >A Fruvous concert is like sex, see. If it's done > >right, nothing > >will ever surpass the first time... > > Don't you mean: a fruvous concert is like sex... even > if it's bad it's still pretty damn good!! > > (or something) > > -jen (couldn't resist ;) > > ===== > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Take me to your litre! > > -MC > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 01:59:18 -0500 From: dopeytoo Subject: Re: brain droppings.... long Raenfaerie@aol.com wrote: > > With all due respect to adult Fruheads, I'd like to speak up for the younger > crowd that doesn't require painkillers or a seat and would prefer to dance. > We're just trying to have a good > time, and unlike a lot of over-21-with-paying-jobs-and-driving/cars adults, a > Früvous show is a really rare event that we would want to make the most of. and you know, the thing that really sucks about this, is that standing/dancing type shows tend to occur in bars and other over 21/18 venues, while all ages shows tend to be seated.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:25:42 GMT From: Lynne Subject: RANT(kinda long) - and request for opinions In response to Fruwench... I say this is something we are going to have to get used to, especially as Fruvous becomes more and more popular. This is life-society... The bigger MF gets the more people who "don't know"[1] as someone quoted "what the 'others' know" will seem out of place to some. (Out of place-the least offensive way I could state annoying/offensive/_your_word here_) Were you a bitch? I don't think so.. You were probably frustrated that you couldn't enjoy the show the way you would most like to. I think that the band kinda knows and even expects that there will be all different types of fans out there. I would hope that they wouldn't be offended or concerned about the audiences reactions, I will assume that they would be understanding of the differences, and even appreciative of the differences. (I wouldn't include that to cover a specific attack or remark made) I mean, I think that we could translate the loud group of people yelling for the drinking song as saying " I REALLY REALLY love that song and want to hear it again and again, especially live, it's so moving " I think we have to remember and be sensitive to the people who don't know that "they really don't do requests" :) well not on the night requested! Me.. unless someone made Fruvous meaningful for me, and the band has kept it more meaningful than any one will ever know, I wouldn't have ever heard of them, or listened to them. I don't listen to groups that are similiar to them... I don't know the song Alison, I haven't learned to like it, I just don't like it. I would much rather hear something the guys created. Am I dissing them? Am I questioning their choices? Absolutely not! Do I want to give them MY own personally created setlist and see them perform it? Hell yeah! :) ..just my thoughts... lynne, heading to NYC!! [1]all the words and handmotions, say to Johnny Saucp'n (um.. or that there's a ' in Saucep'n) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:48:52 GMT From: Lynne Subject: Re: rochester show The best I can do with directions is 90 to 490. I usually drive from 80/90 in Ohio that way to Rochester. Where's Angie? She knows!! - -lynne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 05:28:18 -0500 From: "D. Vacca" Subject: Re: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show In article <19991124052716.14061.rocketmail@web119.yahoomail.com>, darlene88@yahoo.com (CheesemonkeyGem) wrote: : : >A Fruvous concert is like sex, see. If it's done : >right, nothing : >will ever surpass the first time... : : Don't you mean: a fruvous concert is like sex... even : if it's bad it's still pretty damn good!! Well, that's not actually what I meant in this particular case, though it certainly is true enough. I'm certain we could assemble a long list of reasons why Fruvous concerts are like sex, though, and have us a high old time in the process to boot. In fact, were I not a recently decloaked lurker who really was planning on returning to lurker status, I'd suggest a *newer* new thread- Why Fruvous concerts are like sex. Umm... let's see, besides the two above... Well... (and take all of these examples with a grain of ;) * A Fruvous concert is like sex: it's more fun with other people. * A Fruvous concert is like sex: it's a lot harder to get if you're not old enough to legally hang out in bars. * A Fruvous concert is like sex: you spend a lot of time thinking about Murray. (Or Jian, if you're like my ex-SO. Boy, would Kam have freaked when Jian visited the Stage Murray balcony to see the opening act incognito.) ... and others, in even more dubious taste. I'll leave it to any regular a.m.m-f habitues with even fewer scruples than someone who lives in D.C. and works in the legal biz to list them. Should such a thing exist. Well, I should get back to lurking, or packing, depending on how long-term my goals for the end of this message turn out to be. - --- David Vacca | vacca@intr.net | http://www.intr.net/vacca/ "And malt does more than Milton can/ to justify God's ways to man" - A.E. Housman, "Terence, This Is Stupid Stuff" ------------------------------ Date: 24 Nov 1999 12:57:18 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (FruWench) Subject: Re: additions to DC reviews *ladywench tries it and ends up staring at her screen in horrified shock and surprise* Did you . . . but it's . . . oh, dear. The world is in troublenow. ladywench "Music not danced to is music wasted." - Eileen Ivers, PFF 38 FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor . . . ------------------------------ Date: 24 Nov 1999 12:59:01 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (FruWench) Subject: Re: RANT - and request for opinions - Post DC show > you were justified >in yelling at them. Mild correction, I'm not THAT bad. The only yelling from me (or at all, I believe) was to get them to stop chanting Drinking Song after the lights came up. I did not disturb the choir circle with more then a few glares. ladywench "Music not danced to is music wasted." - Eileen Ivers, PFF 38 FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor . . . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:41:46 GMT From: Josh Harriman Subject: 1/1/00 Tix For Sale FruPersons - Due to unfortunate circumstances beyond my control, I will not be able to use my tickets for the New Year's Day show at the Tralf. So, if anyone out here in newsgroup land needs them, please email me and we can work something out. Here are the details: When: 1/1/2000 Where: The Tralf, Buffalo, NY How Many Tickets: 4 (but I can split them up since they are general admission) How Much: $15 each. I will swallow the TicketMaster charges. Why: Because I can't use them anymore, and someone out there might be able to. Please get back to me at pisco@fruhead.com if you are interested. Thank you, - --Josh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:37:19 GMT From: "Anuszewski, Angela" Subject: Democrat and Chronicle Hey, all you folks in Rochester today, 11/24 - pick up a copy of the D&C, there is an interview with Mike in the Weekend section. Angela ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:28:51 GMT From: jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (Neil Bardhan) Subject: OT: Isn't it scary? Isn't it scary when you wake up from a nightmare(well they're all relative) and to get yourself un-freaked you have to listen to a bunch of Top 40 MP3s? *shudder* *shiver* *shower* Have a lovely THanksgiving, Americans! Neil Neil Bardhan: jbardhan@servtech.com http://demon.ceh.servtech.com Pork chops are elastic. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Nov 1999 13:04:41 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (FruWench) Subject: Re: additions to DC reviews "Monkey Boy", as far as *I* know, was referencing the show where Mike turned into Monkey Boy when Mr. Cheese dissed the Beatles. Mike bounced around stage making gorilla noises and pounded on Dave a bit before returning to teh bongos and pounding on them. I thought it was MIKE who saw Albright in the gift show, because I remember thinking "this sounds like a Jian story, but Mike is telling it". But I could be wrong, caffiene in high quantites can cloud the brain. ladywench "Music not danced to is music wasted." - Eileen Ivers, PFF 38 FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor . . . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:56:30 GMT From: "Wood, Nancy" Subject: RE: Democrat and Chronicle Angela said: Hey, all you folks in Rochester today, 11/24 - pick up a copy of the D&C, there is an interview with Mike in the Weekend section. Angela And they have it on the digital edition at: http://www.RochesterGoesOut.com/night/1124moxyfruvous.html ------------------------------ Date: 24 Nov 1999 14:30:29 GMT From: limezinger@aol.commmmmmmm (gloria stits) Subject: Re: fruvous on wber tonight! >Okay, so I was listening to WBER this afternoon and there was an announcement >that Moxy Fruvous would be playing live at 8:00 PM tonight (Tuesday) and >that >people could call in to ask questions or request songs. whoo... they went from about 8:30 to 10:30. :) niiice. and they picked the clash's "straight to hell" as an 'influence pick'. wooo! :) sarah linnellgirl@tmbg.org http://members.aol.com/limezinger "enjoying the book?" "no." "what's it about?" "it's a romance. this girl meets this guy, they fall in love... it's bullshit." -- 'a life less ordinary' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:29:28 GMT From: "Kathleen Cain" Subject: Fw: New Thread: Your favourite fruvous show >Actually there are two takes on this one: > >If you're a guy, the worst you've ever had was wonderful. > >If you're a gal, the worst you've ever had was forgettable. NO NO NO!!! Should be: If you're a gal, the worst you've ever had was UNforgettable......but, BOY do you wish you could! >> >A Fruvous concert is like sex, see. If it's done >> >right, nothing >> >will ever surpass the first time... >> >> Don't you mean: a fruvous concert is like sex... even >> if it's bad it's still pretty damn good!! >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 06:47:24 -0800 From: scoper Subject: Re: fruvous on wber tonight! Anyone tape this? I wasn't home Tuesday night and missed it! Got lots to trade, Fruvous and others, on DAT, MD, or cassette. Thanks! Scott scoper[at]netcom[dot]com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 06:41:43 -0800 From: scoper Subject: Re: New Thread: Your Favorite Fruvous Show Hmm... gotta break this down into 2 parts - shows I saw and shows I only have on tape. ChrisO and others have talked about the 10/30/98 show, but I kinda liked 10/31/98 better... the Chia Pets (Plus Dave) playing 2 hours+ of inspired covers, wearing some of the worst eye makeup I've ever seen! In fact, I usually just lump those 2 shows together as the "NoHo Halloween" shows. I'm admittingly biased about the Halloween show, since the Fruboys told me afterwards that they had talked about me before the show, knowing how much I'd love it (I guess my semi-advanced age gave me an advantage here!). Other great shows in contention: November 13, 1997 - TLA, Philadelphia July 16, 1998 - Falcon Ridge (yea, a short set, but a GREAT one) Honorable Mention - shows I didn't attend, but love on tape: May 17, 1997 - MIT October 3/4 1997 - Buffalo Actually, Fruvous was at the top of ALL concerts I attended in 1997 and 98... they didn't make the cut this year, but that could change if they really try hard at the Westbeth... gotta beat out Bela Fleck and Bruce Springsteen, though. Scott * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:14:59 -0500 From: Paul Baker Subject: Re: fruvous on wber tonight! Same here... I missed it but would like a copy. I've lots to trade on my FHDC tape traders list.... Thanks-- Paul scoper wrote: > Anyone tape this? I wasn't home Tuesday night and missed it! > > Got lots to trade, Fruvous and others, on DAT, MD, or cassette. > > Thanks! > > Scott > scoper[at]netcom[dot]com > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ------------------------------ Date: 24 Nov 1999 15:54:11 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: brain droppings.... long Raenfaerie and I got in a big ethical spat, and here I am answering her instead of packing like I should be doing ... :) Caveat: my use of the word "you" below does not mean Raenfaerie in particular. I'm not trying to attack her. It is a global "you" addressed to those whose behavior and/or views are represented by her defense. >If that means that we stay standing and dancing even after the obvious "dance > >numbers," can you forgive our youthful energy and enthusiasm? Of course, as long as you exhibit consideration for those around you. No one's saying you shouldn't dance. We're saying you shouldn't block other people's views. That means moving to another part of the floor where your dancing is not challenging the sight lines of others. >concerts under our belts. (Also, we're flighty and immature and all sorts of >other awful things. But am I digressing?) bigtime! :) And for the record, I don't believe anyone characterized teenagers in such a way. Somewhere someone did say something about more teenagers being at shows lately, and *some of* them could be annoying (to which I reply, some adults annoy me too) ... but I'm not at all sure that the bulk of those dancing (and getting scolded) at the Keswick were teenagers. > >I have to disagree. I think it's perfectly all right, especially if a lot of >other people do it. You really don't want to go *there*, do you? ;) Lots of people are racist biased prejudiced pigs too, but that does NOT mean it's "perfectly all right." >I sense that there's a kind of war, between the >"pro-dance" people and the "bunch of others." Th I sense that you're assuming the "bunch of others" is "anti-dance" (the logical opposite of "pro-dance") when in fact that isn't the case at all. What I and I believe Kate are saying is -- we like dancing. At standing shows, believe me you'll find us both right up front dancing. BUT we also feel people should be cognizant of the rights of others around them, and try not to get in their way. Especially when an alternative (approved-by-the-venue side-aisle dancing/standing) is available and plentiful. Let me point out that my husband, whose guttural voice-of-grumpy-authority "Down in Front!" did seem to get some response from Stage Murray dancers, could be found during the last third of the show dancing in the side aisle. The dancing or standing was never the issue; the location of this activity was. And if there's any sort of "war" going on, which I really hope there isn't, I'd characterize it as between those arguing that rude behavior is okay when it's caused by their own exuberance vs. those saying no, it's not; that expressions of exuberance can be tempered and channelled in a way that is still enjoyable to the person experiencing it without infringing on the right of others to experience their own exuberance. e fact that we're trying our >best (like the Cheesemonkey with her disabled seating dilemma) Cheesemonkey's dilemma was different because she was specifically told by security that she could not stand in a location that was not blocking sightlines. She made an honest attempt and encountered a recalcitrant venue (who, to be fair, may just have been observing fire codes or whatever. The venues are not always the bad guys here.) > might make us >kind of annoyed when people "tell us so." I'm probably sounding very bitchy, No, but what you ARE saying is that people get annoyed and defensive when others make them aware that they're not behaving well, or are stepping on the toes of others. Well, that's a pretty universal response -- few folks want to hear that, because few folks want to believe that of themselves. :) >but :tries on her best Frubitch voice: just because you don't want to dance who said that? The issue is not what I want, but what is fair to those around me. I knew when i bought the tickets that this was a seated venue and my opportunities to express my Frujoy with physical motion would be limited. I chose to buy the tickets anyway. That means I have a responsibility to the venue and its other patrons to not impede the evening's entertainment. >doesn't mean we shouldn't or can't. No it doesn't. But it doesn't mean you're allowed to trample other people's rights either, in the name of your own desires. With rights (you may attend a show and expect to see and hear the band) come responsibilities and obligations to the rights of others. >Thank you! I'm a big fan of dancing in one's seat. Sometimes, though, it >just reminds me of some form of soft-core-aroebics. Don't ask. ;0) *snort* >P.S. I've noticed that the older you get, the more of the people who surround >you are younger. If that made sense. uh, yeah. :) Also, you sort of stop sympathizing >with the younger people, whereas when you were younger you resolved "never to >treat anyone in the horrible and cruel and unfair way" *you* were treated :) Well, *I* might be a geriatric old fart, but Kate's only 19 and she seems to understand. :) It's not ageism, really. In fact, you assume that all of those who can't stand at shows are "adults", whereas I know for a fact that some of them are quite young. Disability doesn't discriminate; it hits any age group. What I'm trying to request is that we all be aware of *everyone's* needs and rights vs. our own wants. And yes, sometimes they will clash -- and that's where compromise is necessary. Compromise sometimes means not being exactly where you want, or being able to do exactly what you want, if those actions (especially as an aggregate; we are talking a hundred or more people here, not just one, and that's EXACTLY why it was a problem) really do cause a problem for other people and you are made aware of it. So, yes, in conclusion it does cause a problem. And now you have been made aware of it. The question is, are you going to dismiss those with the problem as a whining paranoid special-interest group -- or are you going to try to work something out that honors your rights *and* theirs? Peaches on this holiday weekend to all of you. - -- Lori, hoping no one feels she bit his or her head off. I'm not an ogre, honest! :) ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #969 ********************************************