From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #908 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Friday, October 22 1999 Volume 03 : Number 908 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: WFUV Fund drive: Support Public Radio [gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash] WFUV Fund drive: Support Public Radio [gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash)] Re: john linnell ["Novac" ] Re: (No Subject) [ScarletB23@aol.com] OT: Steven Wright rocks! ["Novac" ] Re: OT: john linnell ["Novac" ] Re: OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) ["Jerry Levine/MHP" ] Re: OT: Arrogant Worms ["Phil Miles" ] Fw: Changing the Law (was Fake ID, etc.) ["Kathleen Cain" ] Re: OT: Arrogant Worms [Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca>] re: Fake ID needed :) [Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca>] Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #905 ["Cameron Ross" ] RE: Portland Show [Kristy Thompson ] Re: under/over 21 shows [Cathy Fahey ] Re: santa cruz [Kevin Bourrillion ] Re: 18/21+ shows [Loren Beth Becker ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Oct 1999 04:08:23 GMT From: gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) Subject: Re: WFUV Fund drive: Support Public Radio I should have added that WFUV is 90.7 FM in NYC. If you haven't heard them, give them a listen. Feanole aka DrWhoFru ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 1999 04:04:42 GMT From: gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) Subject: WFUV Fund drive: Support Public Radio WFUV is having their fund drive soon. It will run from October 30th till November 7th. The Lads have been down to the station a number of times and have included Music Director, Rita Houston, in there ad libs for Minnie at least twice. . If you have the money join. If you don't or even if you do, you can go down to the station and answer phones. If you are interested Call 718-817-4550. I'll be down there Monday-Fridays in the Afternnoons. I hope I see some of you there. If you call to pledge during pledge week the volunteer will ask you why you decided to join, remember to say "Because you play Moxy Fruvous!" If you live outside NYC you should join and/or Volunteer at your local public radio station. They are the only one's that really play Moxy and we should show our appreciation. Also members are listened to and if the members want more Fruvous, they will get it. Gordon Feanole aka DrWhoFru ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:00:59 -0400 From: "Novac" Subject: Re: john linnell >tower records (4th st. and broadway... a couple of blocks >from the bottom line) at 5pm. Ahh yes, last New Years Eve, I was wandering around, meant to stumble into Tower Records, found myself in a champagne/wine store...I was confused :) - --Novac ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:57:24 GMT From: ScarletB23@aol.com Subject: Re: (No Subject) andi wrote: >however,it would have much more impact if we *hand >wrote* our own letters in our own voices,not a form >letter or aposition papers, as it were I agree that personal letters have a great deal of impact, but what if 1000 personal letters on the topic were sent at the same time in one package or if all involved mailed them the same day to one Congressman. That would be letter writing campagin with some guarantee of impact. It's easy to ingore one or two letters in Washington (they ignore more than that (Newt's choir girl for example) but let's not go there. Unfortunately, change has never come easily in this counrty. I guess I just suggesting if we organized a bit, it might make someone think (a rare thing in government). What would be even better is if we followed up one mailing with a second personalized batch of letter a few weeks later. Peace-Anita "The kids they dance & shake their bones and the politicians are throwing stones and its all too clear were on own." The Grateful Dead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:05:04 -0400 From: "Novac" Subject: OT: Steven Wright rocks! Angela Anuszewski wrote in message > Hey there all, just got back from seeing Steven Wright at the Auditorium > Center here in good 'ol Rochester. Yes, he's one of my top 3 favourite comedians. Too bad I didn't know he was playing Roch!!! I saw him at SU last winter, though :) - --Novac ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:02:58 -0400 From: "Novac" Subject: Re: OT: john linnell Michele Determan wrote in message > John just released a CD called State Songs - and it is *not* the state > anthems but 15 songs with the names of states as song titles. Yes, and I believe he intends on eventually doing all 50 states (not on the same album, though). A promo copy of this CD was on ebay, starting at $.01 I was the first one to bid, and I had it for a penny for a few hours...by the end of the auction, someone got it for over $20 I believe... - --Novac ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:37:30 -0400 From: "Jerry Levine/MHP" Subject: Re: OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) Hey! Why don't we start a pot legalization topic! I'll start! Wait... Here's my input: I am 18...in the US. Soon to be 19. Now that doesn't make a difference here, but in Canada, as we are well aware, it does. I for one don't see the logic behind making many things illegal. I agree...the parents, not the state should be responsible for the actions of the child. If the parent says the child may go to the concert, the state shouldn't be able to say "Sorry, but you as a parent, are wrong." Now for the degeneration into drugs and Al-key-hol.... We know that interdiction (making illegal) of Alcohol, Drugs, and Tobacco fails. The prices go up, but people still do these things. One of the reasons behind this is the addiction factor. Another more interesting factor is the fact that people are more likely to try something when it's illegal than when it isn't. More teens start smoking than do people at the age of 18 and above. This is not just because we had cigarette ads in every place imaginable, targeting kids. These teens and tweens are doing it because it's illegal to purchase tobacco in the US under the age of 18! It's "Something Cool". I'm "breaking the law", so to speak, by having this. Alcohol is an even better example. The US and Canada have more Alcohol-related problems than most other countries. This same "It's illegal so it's cool" idea works here. In France and Spain, people go out to drink, but they don't try to get smashed. Alcohol is a part of the normal culture, and anyone can get it. By making a age-related issue, our respective gov'ts created a demand for it. I'm in college. I know I can get alcohol if I wanted it (which I don't...). Marijuana has pretty much the same argument as Alcohol. In fact, here's something from my Econ200 textbook on the issue of illegal drugs in our country: Drug interdiction reduces the supply of drugs. However, the demand for drugs (when addicted) is inelastic (meaning it does not change too much). Because of this, even as the supply of drugs is reduced, the total amount paid to get the drugs increases, even as demand falls (which also raises crime, since the drug prices are higher). However, drug education reduces the demand for these drugs. Because of this, the price falls until suppliers are no longer able to supply the drugs. It therefore reduces drug use and drug crime. Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Let me know. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry S. Levine "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly and they use too much vermouth." -- Fran Lebowitz maddhatter@earthling.net jlevine@wam.umd.edu maddhatter@fruhead.com maddhatter@hushmail.com maddxhatter@hotmail.com AIM: maddxhattr ICQ: 745660 (rarely used) http://maddhatter.cjb.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:03:50 +0300 From: uklxhi@yahoo.com Subject: Largest music selection with all types of music 8505 The largest music site of its kind on the net. http://www.mp3e.com/musicmaker/ bjvgdclsdyenxecqitdfwpeqzdclcsexbcqffvurfswohnrstuyowjrtvhskxfoderx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:00:23 GMT From: Lynne Subject: santa cruz (review of GEH- at end *worth reading!!) I was gonna post a review, but I never have.. so for now I'll just post the set list. The show was unique... started out unusually quiet, but the guys picked up and took control, and were excellent,. Good job of bringing the crowd up to speed. Daves setlist: 1/2 horse too care indy sad boss rush river booty too cold tureen - sauce Moon Hold MPG Splatt Car Boyf Potion - ------ Michican Militia - ------ King GEH Drinking Green Eggs and ham was hysterical! Jian was tormenting Dave in the usual "not the beatles" way, when he appeared to go to far... and the crowd started yelling quietly "way to go dave" which transitioned to a loud roar of "we love dave" "we love dave" it was awesome!! Jian says " no.. no.. if you love davem then you hate the beatles!!" them mike runs from behind the drums in the back to the front of the stage and yells.. "no! he's not dave-- he's mr cheese!!" Mike then jumps offff the stage into the crowd and starts beating on people.. he jumps back on to the stage and they finish the song... Oh my all that followed by a wonderful (usual) finale of the drinking song. Not many arms around each other,.. but a bit of swaying... Fruvous needs to hit the West Coast a bit more often!!! Sorry, I've got to go.. I wish I could tyoe more! :) - -lynne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:08:36 +0100 From: "Phil Miles" Subject: Re: OT: Arrogant Worms Thanks. So, are 'The Worrms' popular over there then, because nobody over here has even heard od MF let alone them? :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:28:10 GMT From: "Kathleen Cain" Subject: Fw: Changing the Law (was Fake ID, etc.) - -> >melanie (who'd love a fake ID that put her age at 21) *grin* > > Ditto!!! :) Kathleen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:08:42 -0400 From: "Lindsay Lion" Subject: Re: WFUV Best Albums of the Century Poll Just a note - that's www.wfuv.org - -- - --- Lindsay Lion Manager of Operations & Technology Biosyn, Inc. llion@biosyn-inc.com Gordon Nash wrote in message news:19991022000104.26911.00000328@ng-fj1.aol.com... > WFUV in New York City, is having a poll. You can vote for the greatest Albums > of the Century. I put Live Noise in my Top 10. If you live in the listening > area go to their website. WWW.WFUV.com and vote. Make sure to put a Moxy CD in > your list. I know that none will actually make their top 100 but maybe we can > get one to make a good showing. > Feanole aka DrWhoFru ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:59:59 GMT From: Ellen Subject: Fight the powah. This discussion doesn't need to be dragged out any more than it already has, so instead of replying to this whole post, all I'm going to say is.. In article <380F5A88.981C943B@fruhead.com>, zaph@fruhead.com wrote: > that's absurd. I know it's the current practice, but it's still > absurd. Any establishment that serves alcohol to anyone carries tremendous liability. And with good reason. And as with many of the points that have been brought out by this discussion, just because you think something is absurd, Lawrence, doesn't make it any less true (or valid, in some cases). Someone else already raised a question that Lawrence hasn't (that I've seen) answered, so I'd like to redirect it, to Lawrence and anyone else who feels the same way he does. What are you doing about it? What are you *going* to do about it? It seems like maybe you are starting to see (a little, at least) that societal laws are what makes this situation so difficult for underagers, and that blaming the band or the club is not productive. So-- you believe this is wrong; what are you doing to change it? Surely if it's this important to you, you're doing something to fight it beyond opening a discussion on Usenet. Right? peace, ellen *************************************** fighting a cold, myself... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 1999 13:46:12 GMT From: Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: OT: Arrogant Worms Well, now, that all depends... define popular! :) Do they sell out shows in Kingston? Sure. All the time. But then, this is where they started... :) Veronica (Worms @ the Grand Theatre Nov. 6 and only 1 class today, leaving me time to walk downtown through the pouring rain...) - -- *************************************************************************** "Every time I feel the urge to | Veronica Gruneberg exercise I lie down until it | Dept. of Biology goes away." - Mark Twain | Queen's University | Kingston, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 1999 13:48:27 GMT From: Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: re: Fake ID needed :) Sanjita said: We can alter our clothes to make them smaller. Really tall people can't alter their clothes to make them larger. *THANK YOU*!!! This has been my 5 foot 11 inch argument for years!! :) Plus, being tall isn't all it's cracked up to be. I'm sick of getting things off the high racks and shelves for people! ;) :) Veronica - -- *************************************************************************** "Every time I feel the urge to | Veronica Gruneberg exercise I lie down until it | Dept. of Biology goes away." - Mark Twain | Queen's University | Kingston, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:08:14 GMT From: "Cameron Ross" Subject: Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #905 Aye-yi-yi, I promised myself I wouldn't respond any more to this > > Point 2: Two friends are in an All Ages show, one is 17, one is 21... The > > 17 year old ask's his/her older friend to get him a beer... Later the 17 > > year old, with the mark on his hand, is caught drinking... The venue gets in > > deep shit, and needs to enforce a age restriction (that's exactly what > > happened at Lee's Palace). > > no, if the 17 year old is caught drinking he is kicked out of the club. the > club has then done its part. if he's caught drinking outside the club, that's > not their problem. (or at the very least *shouldn't* be - if it still is then > our laws are considerably more backward than I originally thought) Either that, or he's caught by someone else, maybe someone whose underaged child was killed in a drinking accident... S/he calls the police, and Voila, as I said, something like that DID happen at Lee's Palace > and really, if we want to go after the age restriction thing, it's probably > best to first get these absurd laws that make the club responsible for > something they cannot control (i.e. someone handing a drink to someone else) > overturned. They *can* control it, that's why they have 21+ shows!!! > > 3rd and final thing... you can get into 21+ shows.... wait till some people > > that can't start asking you to fight for there 'cause' before you start > > fighting for it... It's one thing helping a group... it's another helping a > > group that doesn't really want to be helped (and then there is the fact that > > this news group will not be able to do a thing to help, even if we could. > > It's not us that caused the problem, it's the rest of society, and as much I > > would love to be able to vouch for honesty of everyone else in the world, I > > really can't do that). > > you're telling me I shouldn't fight things I feel are unjust? You're saying > that if something doesn't affect me personally I shouldn't try to change it? Ah, so your the type who likes other people handling your battles for us? We're the ones who this unjust laws affect, it's our battle. > Secondly, you're saying that we as a group of fans cannot do anything to help > this, and I say that is totally and completely false. We live in a > "democracy." We all have our say - and, for those who are under 18 and cannot > vote, that doesn't mean you can't write to your congressmen with issues. We > *can* do something about it. What you're suggesting is just giving up. First off, as all these posts have showed us, it's not a group of fans... it's basically just you! I personally won't fight it, because of the point one that I made, it gets less money to the bands, and I personally am willing to not see a few concerts, so the band will able to put on concerts I will be able see (and feed themselves...). > That's the kind of passive attitude that allows these injustices to continue. Ouch, I'm insulted, actually, I remember battles trying to get Lee's to do an all ages on the weekend of both Frücons, a letter/eMail campaign... it didn't work because (and I'm going to point this out one last time) They've done all ages before, and underage drinking got them in a large amount of trouble with the law. - Life101 - "Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding" -They Might Be Giants -=( http://www.mental.nu/~life101 | ICQ#: 39307347 )=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:29:30 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Setlists ( was re: Portland Show ) Raenfaerie@aol.com wrote: > Grrr - Why do they *keep* starting with this??? There's usually a base setlist structure for a tour. That's been true for years now. It's even more so true after you release a new album (especially one that you are extremely proud of) because you want to push the album. If they play a lot of stuff from the album (say 70% of it) at a show, then there's a lot more of a chance of someone walking up to Tobey and saying "Hi! Do you know which album that Independence song is on? That was really great!" (for arbitrary values of Independence). The band has to cater to multiple sets of people. There are people who only see one show a tour, whenever they come to their town. For those people, there is a base tour set list that is different than the last tour. There are also people crazy enough to see 5 shows in a row in a week. For those people, there are improvs and blanks in the tour set list that can be filled in with treats. I would guess that if someone saw the exact same show as the night before, except instead of Independence Day they played Love Set Fire with Dave on violin, that a large percentage of us would be ecstatic about the show. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:03:02 GMT From: Kristy Thompson Subject: RE: Portland Show > Seriously, though, I've been reading the setlists and > noticing that the shows > are getting, and here's a word uncommonly associated w/ > fruvous - routine. > For example, the rest of this particular show was pretty > predictable Well you also have to take in that this is only the second show they've played in Portland. The first show was quite different. I'm still a frubaby (my third show will be Saturday) and I was really happy with it. It was quite different from the set list play in Seattle the night before... On another note about the show... Murray wore (and I feel a *GASP* coming on here) a plain black T-shirt ala Jian. It was a bit disturbing for me. I'd had reports of the polyester from the night before and was quite taken aback and the lack of it here. He said after the show that he would not be dictated to, even by his own shirts. Still it was weird and I'm gonna have to get my pictures developed ASAP! ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Kristy Thompson Portland, OR kristy@fruhead.com ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:34:18 -0400 From: Cathy Fahey Subject: Re: under/over 21 shows On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, miyax wrote: > Ok, yes, I agree with you. But where are the shows otherwise? And come > on, how many high school kids (or under that, even) do you really get at > the average all-ages Frushow? All the shows that I have been to have had a great deal of high schoolers. There's nothing more annoying than having two pimply-faced boys standing behind you singing "Satan" in a high pitched voice to the off-beat of a song. This happened to me at an all-ages Fruvous show in Rochester. It just distracted from the performance (for those who were there, this was the show where someone threw a battery at Jian). Now, I really like the fact that the band plays all-ages shows. I love to see the diversity of ages and people at concerts. It's great. On the other hand, I really do prefer 21+ venues (clubs and concerts both). I just prefer an older crowd. It's completely personal. I've been to concerts for all ages and those 21+. I liked the 21+ ones more because the audience was more respectful. An example: I was at an all ages Tori Amos concert and some young girls in the audience were screaming out "We love you, Tori!" during _Winter_. Tori was appreciative, but I would have liked to hear the song, not the girls. It's the same at 21+ clubs. There isn't the prevalence of alterna-tots and teeny-boppers trying to impress people. At 21+ clubs I can enjoy dancing and listening to the music more than I can having to put up with posing club-goers. Also, the cover is much cheaper. > 21 year olds are in stark contrast to screaming toddlers. But there's > not much of a difference between me (16 in January) and you. You were a > sophomore only 5 years ago. You were a toddler 19 years ago. See? > Hypothetically, you make a good point. Logically, I don't think so. There is a _big_ difference between a 16 year old and a 21 year old. It has to do with life and maturity. Not to say that there are not mature 16 year olds, but the maturity that comes from getting through high school, working, or going to college, and living on your own is different than that of an adult teenager. I can't very well discuss what happened at the bar over tequila shots last night with a 16 year old because he has never done that, and wouldn't get half the story. I also couldn't discuss the problems that come from paying rent and having to fix your heating system yourself because your landlord's in California. In the same vien, a 16 year old couldn't discuss the PSATs with a 3 year old. It's a difference of age and experience, and as you get older, you will realize it. Regardless, I like all of the Fruvous shows I've been to. I'll keep going to whatever ones come to the Rochester area. I just prefer 21+ shows. Cathy :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Grammar, spelling and punctuation are not things that happen to other people." -Terry Pratchett Cathy Fahey cf001f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu http://www.cif.rochester.edu/users/morrigan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:15:56 -0700 From: Kevin Bourrillion Subject: Re: santa cruz Once again, after many months of listening to other music and seeing other bands perform, Moxy Fruvous reaffirmed last night why they are the greatest band alive. Words cannot express the depth of gratitude that I feel toward them for existing. If they did not, life would still be the marvelous thing it is, but there would just be that much less joy to go around. See you tonight! Kevin P.S. After horseshoes, I think, was the all-too-brief "Oral Dilemma." :-) Lynne wrote: > > (review of GEH- at end *worth reading!!) > > I was gonna post a review, but I never have.. so for now I'll just post > the set list. The show was unique... started out unusually quiet, but > the guys picked up and took control, and were excellent,. Good job of > bringing the crowd up to speed. > Daves setlist: > 1/2 > horse > too care > indy > sad boss > rush > river > booty > too cold > tureen - sauce > Moon > Hold > MPG > Splatt > Car > Boyf > Potion > ------ > Michican Militia > ------ > King GEH > Drinking > > Green Eggs and ham was hysterical! Jian was tormenting Dave in the usual > "not the beatles" way, when he appeared to go to far... and the crowd > started yelling quietly "way to go dave" which transitioned to a loud roar > of "we love dave" "we love dave" it was awesome!! Jian says " no.. > no.. if you love davem then you hate the beatles!!" them mike runs from > behind the drums in the back to the front of the stage and yells.. "no! > he's not dave-- he's mr cheese!!" Mike then jumps offff the stage into > the crowd and starts beating on people.. he jumps back on to the stage and > they finish the song... Oh my all that followed by a wonderful (usual) > finale of the drinking song. Not many arms around each other,.. but a bit > of swaying... Fruvous needs to hit the West Coast a bit more often!!! > > Sorry, I've got to go.. I wish I could tyoe more! > :) > -lynne > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:20:02 GMT From: Loren Beth Becker Subject: Re: 18/21+ shows I swore over and over that I wouldn't get involved in this discussion but... (Note: I also wrote this yesterday and accidentally left out a letter in the a.m.m-f address and haven't been able to get to the NG since then. Apologies if some of this is repetitive.) Adrianne wrote: > What I am refering to is the overall mood of a show. when you don't > have to worry about offending someone with less than clean language, or > proper topics, it is a nice change. I mean, in an all ages show, they > have kids from age 2 to adults who will understand the content of their > banter, and detect any slips of language, and they need to be careful. > When they play to all adults, there isn't as much of an issue. Also, > at some shows where the language does get questionable, and there are > teens there, the focus can turn to "cool, they swore" rather than what > they were speaking about. they would rather get laughs about what they > are saying rather than giggles at how they said it... I have to say that I hope the guys don't have as narrow a view of their fans who are under the high-and-mighty age of 21 as you do. And having interacted with them on several occasions I'd a hazard a guess that they don't. I'd also hazard a guess that the reason behind the more laid back atmosphere at some shows is their particular mood that night, rather than the fact that the venue is 21+. I've been to a lot of Fruvous shows, particularly in the past year. Some of them have been really laid back and some of them have seemed more strained. Some have been 21+ and some have not. Sometimes those characteristics coincide and sometimes they don't. The guys don't really alter their banter all that much to "accomodate" their younger audiences in my opinion. Some of my favorite shows for banter have been all ages... Perhaps their reasoning for playing 21+ venues is that that is where they can get themselves booked in that particular town. Maybe sometimes it's because that venue happens to be particularly fabulous, such as the Ramshead in Annapolis. But I highly doubt that it is because they want to exclude younger fans from the audience or out of "respect" for their "more mature" fans, if you want to call it that[1]. Mind you, I am *not* 21 and won't be for another year. I also don't use fake IDs to get into shows ever. As much as I agree that everyone should get to see the shows they want to, I also agree that the band and the venues they play have every right to make their living in the best way possible. On the other hand, if a club lets me in without carding me or with a "parent" or under some other special arrangement then that's great. I won't drink but I will enjoy the show for having been there. I've yet to miss a 21+ show that I wanted to attend this year. So I'm curious, could you pick me out of a crowd of people who are 21+? When I get my B.A. in May, at the age of 20, will there be such a huge difference between me and my classmates, most of whom will be 21 or 22, that you could pick me out of that group by my behavior? True, clubs can't count on every 20-year-old to behave maturely but they can't count on every 30-year-old to behave maturely either. I understand the legal issues and I don't complain about that but the idea that the very presence of people under the legal drinking age so alters the show as to make it less enjoyable is, as I believe it was Sarah said, ludicrous. And I have to say that, in my opinion, if the thing that makes Fruvous shows enjoyable to you is the "adult" humor then that's pretty narrow and sad. This isn't meant as an attack but there's so much about Fruvous shows that makes them enjoyable, does every show have to use the word "fuck[2]" or refer to nudity or sex? Does their use of these terms and concepts mean that they're more laid back necessarily? Do they only use them at 21+ shows?[3] Okay, this is much longer than I was planning it to be so I'll shut up now. I'd urge, though, that people who feel as Adrianne does reconsider. /l [1] I think this may stem from something someone other than Adrianne said but it fits in here. I am not in any way trying to pin it on Adrianne. [2] Apologies to anyone who does not like to see this word in print but I see no need to dumb it down when we all know what I mean anyway. [3] The answer to this is no, btw. I refer you to a show at Valentine's in Albany in May '97 when the guys had a discussion about how since the show was so "intimate and interactive" we all had to have sex afterwards. In pretty much those exact words and continuing from there. The show was 18+ but Valentine's has a flexible policy and will allow underagers in with a chaperone for an additional dollar or two. - -- "Like an empty canvas/ hanging on the wall You're not sure what to show them/ so you show them nothing at all" --Tory Cassis, "All the Saints" ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #908 ********************************************