From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #905 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Thursday, October 21 1999 Volume 03 : Number 905 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: trombones (was Re: earthquakes (the song)) [truztno1 ] Re: 18/21+ shows ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) [Luella Benn ] RE: Fake ID's, etc. ["Kathleen Cain" ] Re: trombones ["Carey Farrell" ] a further $.02 on age restriction [serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman)] Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #904 ["Cameron Ross" ] Re: OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) [Josh Drury ] Re: Fake ID's, etc. ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #904 [ScarletB23@aol.com] (No Subject) ["andi andrzejewski" ] age restrictions ["andi andrzejewski" ] Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #904 ["Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: trombones (was Re: earthquakes (the song)) Genna wrote: > > I know I've heard > >that GWS was arranged for SATB parts at one of the FruCons- would there be a > >similar instrumental arrangement floating around somewhere? > > Is this true?? If so, can some one send some sheet music my way (e-mail > me, I'll give you my address)? I've been wanting to suggest fruvous to my > chorus > teacher for quite some time, Wow, I never thought of that... Or could someone put it up on the 'net, as long as this doesn't violate any legal agreement or goes against the guys' wishes? I was just thinking that it might sound great with my chorus ensemble... and I know plenty of high school a capella groups to pass it on to, even if I don't use it. The last I heard of it was from Vika and recollections of singing alto at one of the FruCons (but correct me if I'm wrong folks. Wouldn't want people to get their hopes up spreading misinformation. : ( ) ~truztno1 ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 19:13:14 GMT From: Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: OT: Arrogant Worms Whee! More Worms fans! :) The Worms went to my university, you know... :) (random bit of mindless trivia of absolutely no importance) Worms online? www.arrogant-worms.com They have links to their distributer there. Also, for Canadian music online, try www.chapters.ca or www.samtherecordman.com. The new Worms CD just came out last week, which means two things (1) Yeah!! and (2) my profs have *got* to stop assigning work and midterms so I can bloody well walk downtown and buy it! :) :) Veronica - -- *************************************************************************** "Every time I feel the urge to | Veronica Gruneberg exercise I lie down until it | Dept. of Biology goes away." - Mark Twain | Queen's University | Kingston, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:20:00 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: 18/21+ shows lawrence solomon wrote: > Your original statement indicated that you think they had scheduled both an > all ages and a 21+ show specifically so they could have one show where the > younger crowd was excluded. It seemed that you were extending your own views > of what makes a show better onto what Fruvous believe make a show better. And > I'm not sure those ideas are the same. I believe Lawrence is correct here. I certainly don't think the issues of 21+ or not keep the band up at night. Often I think it is a non-issue (as it is for most people). However I have never (in 4 and a half years of seeing them) heard them say anything seriously that suggested that they try to play some shows to 21+ audiences. Remember they are from Ontario where the drinking age was raised only to 19. Many Ontarians think we in the US are insane to have a 21 year old drinking age. I think we can probably safely count Fruvous among them. A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:28:39 -0400 From: Luella Benn Subject: Re: OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) "A.J. LoCicero" wrote: > cookie wrote: > > Serving underage people > > alcohol is NOT a local law, but a federal one, and one I fully support. > > Um, actually I don't believe it is. Drinking ages are set at the state > level. Under the Reagan administration, the federal government used a > rather fascistic (I was gonna mention this earlier) :) and underhanded > way to force states that otherwise did not want a 21 year old drinking > age to enact one anyway--They threatened to cut off all federal highway > funds if states did not comply with their wishes. Faced with a no win > situation, the more liberal states gave in and raised their drinking > ages to the absurd level of 21 (note that I'm 35 and my opinion has > never wavered on this issue) creating the seemingly uniform law we see > today. Um, I really was going to just stay out of this one, but a quick correction of misinformation learned in a mandatory alcohol awareness seminar everyone in my high school had to take: There is a federal drinking age of 18. Nowhere, in this country, are people under the age of eighteen allowed to drink. The federal government did not threaten, but indeed DID withhold federal funding of highways and other roads to states that did not raise their drinking age to 21. Until 1995/96 Louisiana was the last state left (out of the continental states) to have a drinking age of 18. When the gov't changed the law to 21 as the legal drinking age it was grand fathered, so that people who were already 18 at the time could still drink, and i believe for up until six months afterwards if you turned eighteen you still were legal under the grand fathering clause. I don't think that I can come up with a more arbitrary judgment than the one used when this law was enacted. I'd like to say as a note to everyone who is saying that these laws are safety measures to protect the world from the irresponsible behavior of the younger generation one thing. A year after graduation one of my closest friends and the love of my sisters life was killed by a drunk driver. The driver had less than a week previously had her license un-suspended from a DUI charge. She had been driving on the wrong side of the road for at least five miles when she hit my friend and his date head on at 60+ mph. There had also been another car following her, flashing their lights trying to get her attention and make her pull over. She was too drunk to even notice or care about this other car. She was not injured at all. My friend and his date both died on impact. This women who took the lives of two brilliant young people with the irresponsibility and sheer stupidity of her actions is now 'serving' 250 hours of community service for her crime. She is also 34 years old. There are so many laws that can be changed or enacted that would protect people; an age limit is not one of them... - --luella ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:12:20 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: under/over 21 shows "I try to get out but they KEEP PULLING ME BACK IN" --Michael Corleone in _The Godfather III_ Kristy Thompson wrote: > > At the risk of getting flamed when I'm relatively new to the list Nobody gets flamed much on this newsgroup. Somehow we seem to be pretty good at controlling that. :) > I wanted > to chime in and agree with some of the over 21 people that PREFER the over > 21 shows. I fall into that category and not because I don't like people > under 21 and not because I need to drink alcohol at every show and not > because I think the shows (Fruvous or otherwise) are better. Maybe I just > prefer to party with those around my own age. I felt that way once. Spend some time around some of our 19 year old fruheads and you will soon change your mind about that, I believe. :) > That brings us > back to business and what the clubs choose to be. Over 21 are catering to > preferences noted in their clientele... Bulltwinkes they are! It might make one feel good to think that, but I rather think it has a bunch more to do with covering their asses legally than with catering to the assumed preferences of their clientele. If there were an easy risk free way that a club could legally get away with allowing younger people in, do you really think they would turn down that revenue for some kind of supposed ethereal ambiance that might or might not really exist? I seriously doubt it. (Let us not even mention that if the criteria were to be anything other than the age of the patrons any such selection would be blatantly illegal) Conservative straight people may not be comfortable in a crowd with gay couples (or whites with blacks or what have you) but you know what we tell them, right? "Get over it! Discrimination is wrong". However with the law on their side, bars discriminate against a group of adults (18-20 year olds) and you are standing here sanctioning it because you like the ambiance it creates. I'm sorry I've heard that excuse used too much to justify racism to accept it here as a defense of ageism. > I think any cut-off that is set to judge maturity or 'adulthood' is gonna be > arbitrary because people are so different. Agreed. > However I firmly believe there > should be a cut-off!!! Why? > Society has had this one in place for a very long > time and from what I've seen it works relatively well. Ahem. OUR society has had one. Our society is extremely unusual among western nations in this regard. I disagree that it works well at all. I think it kills people every year and costs us billions in psychiatric and medical expenses later in life. > Now I also had to > wait my turn. I can't begin to list the shows I didn't get to see. Clubs > decide where their market is in their city and choose what type of club to > be and what type of shows to play. It's all about preference. Would we > criticize a club that plays country instead of folk because they think more > people in a given town will come? In this case its a choice between over and > underage shows. And it's also our luck or misfortune as to what we have > available in our town. I agree with the first 3 sentences. After that I think it is a bad analogy. Style of music and age of audience do not equate. > I understand we can't be that objective when discussing Fruvous though...a > band we all feel passionately about. I for one will attend any show they are > at no matter where it's playing and I do understand the frustration of those > who do not yet have the freedom to do so. I actually could care less about frustrations over fruvous. I also never tried to get into a 21+ show when I was younger, so I really don't have a personal axe to grind. I do however have very strong feelings about the basis for the current system we use to determine who can do what. For me it is a pure civil liberties issue; nothing more. A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:01:56 GMT From: "Kathleen Cain" Subject: RE: Fake ID's, etc. OK. I was going to respond to Lori's message to me, but I changed my mind. Its not worth it. Instead of having a sensible, intelligent conversation about this topic, it has slid into the realm of insults and slurs. Fruheads seem to be cool people. Everyone has good taste in music at least. That is why I joined. I don't believe I'm always right and I don't judge people, so I am staying despite a somewhat rocky start. I had no intention of insulting ANYONE and I am deeply sorry if Sarah or Lawrence's feeling were hurt. Your opinions are valid :), but so are mine. To bring up a somewhat related topic, I would love to see the Frulads in an outdoor show. I live in Minneapolis, so I don't get that opportunity as they have only played at the Fine Line for the past few years. I would listen to them while sitting on the grass on a warm, summer night with a large moon and millions of stars.....................sigh! ...sorry, lost in thought for a moment. :) Kathleen - --and there was peace in the land. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:44:46 GMT From: "Carey Farrell" Subject: Re: trombones truztno1 wrote: >Hmmm... one day, I got really bored and decided to fiddle around with GWS >on my >flute... and decided that a small ensemble/full arranged orchestral version >of >GWS might sound interesting (nowhere near the original in style of course- >it >would have many more "voices", but interesting nonetheless). I know I've >heard >that GWS was arranged for SATB parts at one of the FruCons- would there be >a >similar instrumental arrangement floating around somewhere? Oh, wow, that would be cool. In my orchestration class last year, we all had to do a final project, and I almost arranged "Bittersweet" for brass or something. If you listen to the backup vocals, at some points they're basically singing like trombones. I ended up not doing it because I didn't have sheet music for it and I don't have perfect pitch, so it would've meant transcribing all the parts first, then arranging them all, and it would've taken too long. But now I have a pretty decent arrangment of the King's Singers' "You Are the New Day" for brass quintet . . . if I could only find a French horn . . . Carey, whose radio show was cut short *again* today ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 19:53:14 GMT From: serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman) Subject: a further $.02 on age restriction I understand why age restrictions are in place. Sometimes they bug me, and prevent me from seeing a show, but I roll with the punches. Especially in the case of a venue like the Bottom Line where ALL the shows are 21+. However, the venues that *do* bug me are venues where they do age restrictions depending on the shows. Someone before mentioned that Dan Bern should be 18+ where Fruvous shouldn't. I agree...anyone hear some of Dan Bern's lyrics? They are a little mature! (<-understatement.) Were I a parent of a 16yo, I'd rather them hear Fruvous lyrics than Bern lyrics! (granted, I was 16 only a few months ago, and had heard Bern lyrics a long time before then. But that's not my point.) Venues like the Bowery Ballroom and Mercury Lounge who are selective with their age restrictions are annoying. TMBGirl and I want to go see Marcy Playground (whose ng I recognized her from) at the Mercury Lounge next month, but we can't. Why not? It's an 18+ show. This, IMO is stupid b/c from what I can tell, most Marcy Playground fans are 21-, and for the most part, 18-. I have a feeling that will be a slightly undersold show, simply because a lot of MP fans won't be able to go. So while I'm not opposed to age restriction, I'm opposed to *arbitrary* age restriction. Either be an all age, 16, 18 or 21+ venue, but *don't* change it around. ::steps off soapbox:: - -J writing a song called the Ballad of Jill V. Fruhead Member of the Jian and Murray fan clubs Owner of all the MF albums and all of Ani DiFranco's "She's too short to play me."-Joey Potter Too short to play herself in a movie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:25:04 GMT From: "Cameron Ross" Subject: Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #904 > Suddenly bands stop playing at Venue A, because they've found a better place > to play where they can do better and where their fans are happier. How can > Venue A compete? They can lift the age restriction. That's a hypothetical situation (unless of course you have some recorded incedences of that). And it's probably wrong, why? Bands make more money off of Venue A, and they need money. Why do they make more money? because the clubs make more money, yes I know that the drinks for underagers are usually just as expensive as the Alcoholic drinks, but the 21+ crowd has more money to spend on drinks. (And there are hardly any times where I've seen someone drink as many pops are they would beers. Point 2: Two friends are in an All Ages show, one is 17, one is 21... The 17 year old ask's his/her older friend to get him a beer... Later the 17 year old, with the mark on his hand, is caught drinking... The venue gets in deep shit, and needs to enforce a age restriction (that's exactly what happened at Lee's Palace). 3rd and final thing... you can get into 21+ shows.... wait till some people that can't start asking you to fight for there 'cause' before you start fighting for it... It's one thing helping a group... it's another helping a group that doesn't really want to be helped (and then there is the fact that this news group will not be able to do a thing to help, even if we could. It's not us that caused the problem, it's the rest of society, and as much I would love to be able to vouch for honesty of everyone else in the world, I really can't do that). - Life101 - 17 Years and Proud "Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding" -They Might Be Giants -=( http://www.mental.nu/~life101 | ICQ#: 39307347 )=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:57:18 -0500 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: OT: Arrogant Worms Phil Miles wrote: > 2) Does anyone know of any other net sources of worms info? Well, a few people have already mentioned the official site, which is fairly thorough but does not have nice perks like song lyrics, which are of course all-important with the Worms. The Worm Hole is a good site; I can't remember the URL offhand but a search for "arrogant worms" in Yahoo (at least the Canadian version) will dig that up and a few other good sites. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:44:29 -0500 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: OT: drinking age (Was Fake ID needed) Luella Benn wrote: > When the gov't changed the law to 21 as the legal > drinking age it was grand fathered, so that people who were already 18 at the > time could still drink, and i believe for up until six months afterwards if > you turned eighteen you still were legal under the grand fathering clause. While mostly avoiding the issue of the U.S.'s current draconian drinking laws, I just though I'd point out the linguistic oddity that 18-20 year olds could in fact fall under a"grandfather clause". And on the topic of age discrimination, drunk driving, and grandafthers, I read an interesting article recently saying that the new threat to automotive safety was coming from people who have aged beyond their best driving years and are becoming the demographic responsible for causing the most accidents. It had a statistical projection saying that due to tougher drinking and driving laws and an aging population, by 2015 there would be more fatalities caused by 70+ year old drivers than drunk drivers. What to do about these older drivers? Take away their license when they turn, say 70? Won't happen. We'll see some interesting developments in the next few years about age discrimination, though most will be from the high end age-wise. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:59:39 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #904 Cameron Ross wrote: > Point 2: Two friends are in an All Ages show, one is 17, one is 21... The > 17 year old ask's his/her older friend to get him a beer... Later the 17 > year old, with the mark on his hand, is caught drinking... The venue gets in > deep shit, and needs to enforce a age restriction (that's exactly what > happened at Lee's Palace). no, if the 17 year old is caught drinking he is kicked out of the club. the club has then done its part. if he's caught drinking outside the club, that's not their problem. (or at the very least *shouldn't* be - if it still is then our laws are considerably more backward than I originally thought) and really, if we want to go after the age restriction thing, it's probably best to first get these absurd laws that make the club responsible for something they cannot control (i.e. someone handing a drink to someone else) overturned. > 3rd and final thing... you can get into 21+ shows.... wait till some people > that can't start asking you to fight for there 'cause' before you start > fighting for it... It's one thing helping a group... it's another helping a > group that doesn't really want to be helped (and then there is the fact that > this news group will not be able to do a thing to help, even if we could. > It's not us that caused the problem, it's the rest of society, and as much I > would love to be able to vouch for honesty of everyone else in the world, I > really can't do that). you're telling me I shouldn't fight things I feel are unjust? You're saying that if something doesn't affect me personally I shouldn't try to change it? Secondly, you're saying that we as a group of fans cannot do anything to help this, and I say that is totally and completely false. We live in a "democracy." We all have our say - and, for those who are under 18 and cannot vote, that doesn't mean you can't write to your congressmen with issues. We *can* do something about it. What you're suggesting is just giving up. That's the kind of passive attitude that allows these injustices to continue. - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 21:53:13 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: 18/21+ shows Kate said: >A.J. LoCicero's >anklebiter is very popular :) that's no anklebiter. that's an ankle-gummer. Or at least she was last time I saw her. :) - -- Lori ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 21:49:49 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: OT: Arrogant Worms Hugo said: >New album just out too, "Dirt." Thanks for the info, Hugo! We've only been waiting for this since ... ummm ... July? :) Better late than never. - -- Lori ************ five weeks and a day 'til my own Cross-Border Shopping spree starts! :) ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 21:57:20 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #902 Cameron said: > >Pino-CHET still doesn't rhyme with "Mike > >Harris." > >Well it does almost rhyme with what Mike Harris is.... ;P "I met our premier, that sh!t Still, he's not a Pino-CHET ... " Hey, that's not half bad. :) - -- Lori ************ off to make a spicy pot of chili (3 rhymes?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:38:14 -0400 From: Reneka Mergenthaler Subject: Re: Q: WNY fruheads if i remember correctly, that would be the Buffalo Chips, who are the a capella group at UB or Buff State, not sure which. i have seen them, though, whoever they are! rm On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, Snow In Summer wrote: > ok, WNY fruheads, i have a dumb question... on WKBW (buffalo) > last night, there was an a capella choir which was singing KoS & > will be playing the Hamburg HS shortly... who are they??? i've sen > these guys all over & have always missed their names. help!! > -Amy, querying the fan base :) > > Every time I hear someone say "oh yes, computers are much easier these days. Anyone can > use them" I have this urge to remove their lungs with a crowbar. > -Ross Hendry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:45:36 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Fake ID's, etc. Kathleen Cain wrote: > Fruheads seem to be cool people. Everyone has good taste in music at least. > That is why I joined. I don't believe I'm always right and I don't judge > people, so I am staying despite a somewhat rocky start. I had no intention > of insulting ANYONE and I am deeply sorry if Sarah or Lawrence's feeling > were hurt. Your opinions are valid :), but so are mine. Thanks for staying with us Kathleen. I think you will be glad you did. Many of our most die hard members have had a "somewhat rocky start". A.J. - -- _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:06:22 GMT From: ScarletB23@aol.com Subject: Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #904 lawrence solomon wrote >Secondly, you're saying that we as a group of fans cannot do anything to help this, and I say that is totally and completely false. We live in a "democracy." We all have our say - and, for those who are under 18 and cannot vote, that doesn't mean you can't write to your congressmen with issues. We*can* do something about it. I'm still pretty new to the newsgroup and have been following all the discussion on the clubs and age limited shows for the past two days. What lawrence wrote is the first postive idea about trying make a change instead of just arguing semantics of age, maturity, drinking laws, etc. Since it was proposed by Lawrence, what are we going to do as newsgroup to organize some type of petition or letter to Congress. The more people involved the more impact it will have in Washington. Talking about it is fine, but are we going act to make a difference. Besides if we all have this much time to debate this issue online, it would take much longer to organize a letter or petition especially with this much intrest on the topic. Peace- Anita "Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right." The Grateful Dead ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:30:59 GMT From: "andi andrzejewski" Subject: (No Subject) Anita spaketh: what are we going to do as newsgroup to organize some type of petition or letter to Congress. The more people involved the more impact it will have in Washington. Talking about it is fine, but are we going act to make a difference. Very Good,point Anita, however,i would have much more impact if we *hand wrote* our own letters in our own voices,not a form letter or aposition paper as it were ,andi Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:11:27 GMT From: "andi andrzejewski" Subject: age restrictions Cameron wrote: ... The venue gets in deep shit, and needs to enforce a age restriction (that's exactly what happened at Lee's Palace). If this is truely the issue at Lee's Palace then how do you explain to Kris and Jackie and all the other underagers who where told no,only to have a child no olderthen they and probably younger let in just because his parents were *THE* right folks andi ps I witnessed this and spoke to the folks running the bennifit and their answer was but his father id Dr Henry Bigshot,tough if it applies to some why not all after all if he had been caught drinking .... Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:15:53 -0400 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #904 >no, if the 17 year old is caught drinking he is kicked out of the club. the >club has then done its part. if he's caught drinking outside the club, that's >not their problem. (or at the very least *shouldn't* be - if it still is then >our laws are considerably more backward than I originally thought) But it happens. It does. Really, it does. No matter how many times we click our heels together, clubs get in trouble when people who are underage drink alcohol that was sold by the club. >and really, if we want to go after the age restriction thing, it's probably >best to first get these absurd laws that make the club responsible for >something they cannot control (i.e. someone handing a drink to someone else) >overturned. But they *can* control it - they can restrict admittance to those who are over 21. ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:19:11 GMT From: tmbgirl@juno.com Subject: want a fake id? ok so i really haven't been keeping up with this thread at all. I think it started with the whole bowery show being 18+ which just for a quick story - i used my friend's id 3 times and got in there, but then, at a 16+ show i used my own id and they didn't believe it was me, the guy started asking me if i had an older sister...until i showed them my college id too... Anyways, if you're in the manhattan area i can totally give you some places to go to get fakes... mind you, you're gonna have to shell out the cash. A good jersey license will cost you $80. If you're looking for something that isn't as good - you can get it for about $20-30. One of my friends did this and has had no problems with his fake colorado license - only problem is that it looks absolutely nothing like a real CO license so if there is someone working the door and actually knows whats up - you're screwed. anyways, feel free to e-mail me if you're really that into getting a fake id, i'll help you out any way i know since i think everyone should be allowed to share the grooves. :D "take it easy, Jordan" http://www2.netcom.com/~arnot/joda/bootlegs.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3404/frustuff.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #905 ********************************************