From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #902 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Thursday, October 21 1999 Volume 03 : Number 902 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: One more thing about fake IDs [Ben and Tara Cordes ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [Nate DeRose ] Re: trombones (was Re: earthquakes (the song)) [truztno1 ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [lawrence solomon ] Re: trombones (was Re: earthquakes (the song)) [shadoeme@aol.comrad (Genn] Re: Lyrical Accuracy [Amanda Wilson ] OT: Steven Wright rocks! ["Angela Anuszewski" ] COLORADO SHOWS! [tmbgirl@juno.com] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [Nate DeRose ] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7)] Re: Bowery Ballroom [jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7)] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7)] 18/21+ shows [ap003f@mail1 (Adrianne)] Re: 18/21+ shows ["Kate Leahy" ] Bowery Ballroom [serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman)] Re: One more thing about fake IDs [lawrence solomon ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:33:51 +0000 From: Ben and Tara Cordes Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs two points on this wholely silly argument. 1. some states require that you have certain measures in place before you can admit people under 18 - for example, Club Laga in Pgh has a seperate area for the alcohol, and it can't leave that enclosed area. Sure, they do the wristband thing, but they also have some one checking people at the entrance to the bar area. they are now requiring restaraunts in boston to have certain structural requirements for smoking, too. 2. until we have a magic mature-o-meter, there is absolutely *no way* to gage someone's maturity. age, sadly, is the best thing we have. don't like it? become a physio-psychology major and find a better way. see, it's always a good idea to figure out whom the real bad guy is. in this case, for the clubs, it's probably more a matter of survival, not profits. risking your liquor license is suicide. blaming them for making practical decisions is silly. so, it's not the clubs' fault. it's society at large, as much as I hate to be a typical gen x'er. *shudder* wow. between this and the gun control argument on another list, I'm just ms. polotical minded lately. goombah. - -tara I was right! it's 'shit in the trumpet'! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:32:42 +0300 From: ruolyr@yahoo.com Subject: The largest music selection around 6583 The largest music site of its kind on the net. http://gumpys.musicpage.de/ odjeuucvrsynrrqigojftqopsrvpfvwbmlvffcxhicgurdtnvdwhsjsidwevxgwucdoufuqkbiztxgefgjlkset ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:32:54 -0500 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: Lyrical Accuracy Melanie wrote: > I just heard on All Things Considered that the reporters recently had to re-learn to say the last name of Augusto Pinochet-- from "pee no SHAY" to "pee no CHET". > > So, I'm wondering if the ever accurate Moxy Früvous will need to change the lyrics of The Kid's song to comply. Hm. :-) Interesting question. However, I don't know when the last time they performed this song, and besides, if they are ever-accurate, they won't feel the need to rhyme Pinochet's name with "Premier Bob Rae" anyway. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:55:51 -0400 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs lawrence solomon wrote: > and of course it's all about moneymoneymoney. I thought the point of clubs > was entertainment. or was supposed to be. Well.. yes and no. The point of a business is to do business.... and to profit from that business, so it can pay it's employees and maintain the quality of the club. Businesses are about money... and, like it or not, most clubs are businesses. > *I'm* a loss for the club.... True... but you're a minority. Most people who go to a bar show (and are of age) tend to have at least one or two drinks. > And what's the point of being in business if the customers aren't satisfied? > The top three priorities, in order, for any business should be: customer > satisfaction, employee satisfaction, profit. Ahhh... true. But the problem is that without the "profit" aspect, the other two priorities could not be met. So in that sense, I suppose you could say that profit is more important. (Obviously, however, they all need to be in balance for a business to prosper.) But also, this is beside the point....... most people who go to these shows ARE at least mostly satisfied, or they wouldn't be going. Do you go to shows that are 21+? I know I do.... and I like them. Personally, I like to have a few beers or gin&tonics at a show........ and I'd be much more likely to go to a show that I could get those at. But on that note, I believe I'll bow out of this conversation.... since it's gone on MUCH too long. :) cheers, nate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:17:08 -0400 From: truztno1 Subject: Re: trombones (was Re: earthquakes (the song)) Carey Farrell wrote: > Ln wrote: > > >Fruvous on trombone? What do you play on it? I love the trombone. And > >Bender > >or whoever said GWS sounded kinda cool on clarinet was right. :) Last > >year > >we were playing it on recorder (what we could of it anyway) but it never > >occured to us to try it on our clarinets..can we say duh? :) > > Spidey sounds cool on the trombone. So does I Love My Boss. And so would a > lot of other songs, if I wasn't so self-conscious about figuring them out in > the music department with my professors running around. I think maybe today, > after I finish trudging through my tenor clef exercises (bleh) I'll try some > of the cool Dave-crooning songs. > > Carey Hmmm... one day, I got really bored and decided to fiddle around with GWS on my flute... and decided that a small ensemble/full arranged orchestral version of GWS might sound interesting (nowhere near the original in style of course- it would have many more "voices", but interesting nonetheless). I know I've heard that GWS was arranged for SATB parts at one of the FruCons- would there be a similar instrumental arrangement floating around somewhere? ~truztno1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:09:21 -0400 From: truztno1 Subject: Re: conan rerun... delayed. miss modular wrote: > >well, the rerun with fruvous on conan will be delayed if it airs at all > >tonight. just as a warning for you all out there who missed it the first > >time > >around... because of the braves/mets game delay, the news just came on > >at 1am, > >which means leno at 1:30, tonight's conan at 2:30, leno rerun at 3:30, and > >conan rerun with moxy at 4:30 (?) ... > > no wait.. i messed that up. forgot about later. doesn't look like nbc's > rerunning the moxy episode tonight. grr.. *whew.* good. Of course, my TV reception is horrible, I don't have cable at the moment, and my friend forgot to tape the rerun (and I forgot to count baseball the first time around).... I'll keep my eyes open for rerun dates, but when they list the reruns, they don't seem to list the guests. Anyone know how to find out? I'll inform the NG if I see it first, but (and I know I'm asking a huge favor here) could someone kindly e-mail me? I don't always get to check here every day. Or better yet, maybe we should set up an "e-mail chain" (you know, kind of like those phone chains- someone e-mails me, I e-mail someone else, etc.) I'd be ever so grateful and indebted to you for life... thanx in advance! ~truztno1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:20:40 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Nate DeRose wrote: > But also, this is beside the point....... most people who go to these > shows ARE at least mostly satisfied, or they wouldn't be going. but what about the people who *can't* go to these shows? they are not satisfied. > Do you go to shows that are 21+? yes, I do. > I know I do.... and I like them. I like them no differently than I like all ages shows. Actually I like them less, from a philosophical standpoint - I know that some people I would socialize with at all ages shows are being forced to not attend because of the club's policies. One of my favorite shows happened to have been 21+, but the 21+ness of it was not what I liked about it. The fact that they played only songs from Thornhill and Wood was what I enjoyed about it. > Personally, I like to have a few beers or gin&tonics at a show........ > and I'd be much more likely to go to a show that I could get those at. why? do you have to drink to enjoy yourself? are you seriously trying to say you *wouldn't* go to a show where no alcohol was available? not to mention a good portion of all ages venues serve alcohol, too. - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 02:17:02 GMT From: shadoeme@aol.comrad (Genna) Subject: Re: trombones (was Re: earthquakes (the song)) > I know I've heard >that GWS was arranged for SATB parts at one of the FruCons- would there be a >similar instrumental arrangement floating around somewhere? Is this true?? If so, can some one send some sheet music my way (e-mail me, I'll give you my address)? I've been wanting to suggest fruvous to my chorus teacher for quite some time, bu, she seems as if she would not be willing to work with the harmonies a bit to fit our SATB chorus (I asked her about a song from Les mis that would have needed minor adjustments, and she said that it "could not be done".) Whether she was right or was wrong it would be wonderful to offer this for chorus, it would be a great break from the Church music (dont get me wrong, church music is great...but it's...not Fruvous) solem, Genna ^^^^^^^^^ And my unspeakable wife, Queen shmendrick (Don't mention shmendrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:29:50 -0400 From: Amanda Wilson Subject: Re: Lyrical Accuracy Melanie wrote: > from "pee no SHAY" to "pee no CHET". > > So, I'm wondering if the ever accurate Moxy Früvous will need to change the lyrics of The Kid's song to comply. Hm. :-) Interesting question. However, I don't know when the last time they performed this song, and besides, if they are ever-accurate, they won't feel the need to rhyme Pinochet's name with "Premier Bob Rae" Kids shows up fairly regularly, the last time I'm aware of it is in either Detroit or Chicago. And yeah, I think it's time for new, more current verses. Pino-CHET still doesn't rhyme with "Mike Harris." - --Amanda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:20:00 -0400 From: "Angela Anuszewski" Subject: OT: Steven Wright rocks! Hey there all, just got back from seeing Steven Wright at the Auditorium Center here in good 'ol Rochester. To paraphrase, he's a true "peripheral visionary." One liner of the night - "I went to a restaurant called Buliemia's... you should have seen the line for the bathroom." What I really wanted to ask you all about is the opening act, this guitarist gal named Ruth something - I couldn't quite catch it, it was like Dobson or something similar. Well, she was just amazing. She told us that she and her band (she was there alone tonight) would be on Conan on Jan. 4th....if I'm not in a car on the way back to NY from Florida, I will be sure to catch it. Any of you know who this woman is? Angela ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:10:32 GMT From: tmbgirl@juno.com Subject: COLORADO SHOWS! HEy HEy! even tho i won't be able to make it there myself - i thought I'd share a little bit of info regarding the show in denver at the bluebird since i spent 17 years of my life living 3 blocks away from it :D (yeahyeah, don't diss on it - colfax isn't really *all* that bad... especially once you get over the whole hooker thing). If you want any more info - feel free to e-mail me privately and i'll be more than willing to share anything i can with ya :D A FEW PLACES TO EAT CLOSE TO THE THEATER: #1 Zorba's ok, don't have major details on this one - it's on 12th (and uhm, st.paul?) but it's where i spent a large majority of my time. Great place - the food is good and cheap :D If it's snowing- just know that the locals tend to fill it up pretty quick (not necessarily a bad thing!). If i was ever bored, i typically would wander over to the bluebird, check out whatever band was playing and then head up here. :D #2 Pete's Kitchen Cuisine: American Breakfast Open: Open late Friday and Saturday Address: 1962 E Colfax Avenue #3 Pete's Gyros Place Cuisine: Greek Serving: lunch, dinner Address: 2819 E. Colfax Avenue If you want to wander up Colorado Blvd. a bit - head up to 8th and Colorado (next to Blockbuster) where you can eat at Annie's Cafe. My friends all work there and yeah - it's awesome food. a couple of blocks further east on 8th ave is "the golden dragon" which is some of the best chinese food i've ever eaten - beats china town anyday. :D "take it easy, JOrdaN" http://www2.netcom.com/~arnot/joda/bootlegs.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3404/frustuff.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:26:03 -0400 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Oh lord... okay. I know I said I wasn't going to post again, but since lawrence replied to me..... lawrence solomon wrote: > but what about the people who *can't* go to these shows? they are not > satisfied. No... but they're also not customers. So the "satisfied customer" thing doesn't apply. *grin* > > Personally, I like to have a few beers or gin&tonics at a show........ > > and I'd be much more likely to go to a show that I could get those at. > > why? do you have to drink to enjoy yourself? are you seriously trying to say > you *wouldn't* go to a show where no alcohol was available? No.. I'm not saying that at all. But it is fun to hang out, watch a good band, and have a few drinks. And incidentally, this isn't a debate over the validity of drinking, lawrence.... so it's best not to go putting words into peoples' mouths. > not to mention a good portion of all ages venues serve alcohol, too. Ahhh...... now, THIS is a good point.. though I wouldn't say "a good portion". I think venues, like the Iron Horse, which are all ages and serve beer (and food!) are a great idea. Kudos to those sort of places. Unfortunately for the younger folks.... it is, and will continue to be, easier for a venue that serves alcohol to just not worry about having underage folks inside than it is to try and watch to make sure they don't drink. They'd rather have good service for the folks in there that to worry about policing the place. hopefully, that's it out of me... :) nate ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 03:16:59 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs >>Does anyone know why the 18+ thing is better for them?<< Well, I don't know this for fact, but I have an idea. Here's a story to illustrate: Each summer for the past three years some friends and I go to Lillith Fair. We buy lawn seats, because they're cheap and generally just more fun, but to get a decent spot, we get there 2 or 3 hours early, and chill out on the grass in front of the venue waiting for the doors to open. Inevitably, each year we play a game: if suddenly we were all trapped right here, right now, who around us would we eat first? It's a game cultivated by the crowd that surrounds us, and it's never a very difficult decision. A lot of over 21-year olds don't necessarily want to deal with the "teeny bopper" [1] crowd-- which is why any "all ages" dance club will be almost exclusively under 21. The venue is likely trying to maximize the number of drinkers they can rope in, and in an effort to create the most appealing environment possible for *these* customers, decide 18 is an age where, though they can't garuntee it, can at least try and keep the maturity level of the crowd at a place where it won't chase any potential beer-guzzlers away. It again comes down to simple economics. I have to say that there have been bands I've gone to see where the over-21 shows were infinitely more enjoyable without the tenny-bopper element. However, I've yet to encounter the teeny bopper element *at all* in any of my fruvous shows, which just speaks to the kind of crowd they attract. But the venue can't know this, so in effort to sell as many LI Iced Teas as possible, they create a more "adult" atmosphere by only letting in those who are legally adults. >>For the same reason that it costs more for a 22-year-old to rent a car than for a 24-year-old<< heh-- snapshot of the life of Jen, about 4 hours ago. ;-) I naively thought 23 was old enough to do just about anything in this country but collect social security. Turns out renting a car is just about in the same category. In the entire city of Los Angeles, only *1* place will rent me a vehicle, and are charging me more than my airfare... ~jen [1] And because I really don't want to start *that* discussion again, note "teeny bopper" does not equal "teenager." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 03:50:53 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: Bowery Ballroom >>PS-to whoever said they wanted to see Fruvous at Irving Plaza: I was defruginized there last November when they opened for the Violent Femmes<< hey, me too! And Lordy, was *that* a horrible day, with the exception of the hour or so the lads were on stage... ;-) We have an anniversary coming up soon! ;-) ~jen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 03:56:10 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs >> And incidentally, this isn't a debate over the validity of drinking, lawrence.... so it's best not to go putting words into peoples' mouths.<< >I'm not putting words anywhere - you specifically said you were more likely to go to a show where those are available, so by the definition of "more" you must be less likely to go to a show where they're not available.< To be fair, Nate said he enjoys having a drink or two during a show, and you implied that he needed alcohol to have fun, which wasn't the point at all. ~jen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 03:29:48 GMT From: ap003f@mail1 (Adrianne) Subject: 18/21+ shows I thought I would add my thoughts on this... My favorite shows are the ones that are 21+. Not because of the alcohol, Also, the band takes on a different tone of banter, which I find more amusing. The same goes for 18+ shows, but to a lesser extent. No offense to those of you under 18 or 21 out there, but there is definitely a difference in the shows. Tough it up, you are going to have to wait to know what I am talking about. That is life. Also, I think the band is aware of this. Why else would they have an all ages show AND a 21+ show in the SAME VENUE back to back (as was the case in Buffalo a few years ago)? I feel they are actually showing respect to their older viewers by doing this. I don't mean to sound all "high and mighty" for being over 21, I just wanted to make a point, and it isn't an easy one to make without stepping on some toes... Adrianne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:38:28 -0400 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: 18/21+ shows >Also, I think the band is aware of this. Why else would they have an >all ages show AND a 21+ show in the SAME VENUE back to back (as was the >case in Buffalo a few years ago)? I feel they are actually showing >respect to their older viewers by doing this. Actually, this is usually out of respect to the younger fans. They also did one all-ages show at the Bottom Line during the New Year's run. Occassionally, the band can convince a club to drop the age restriction for one show of a multi-show bill, and it can usually only do that at a club where they have established themselves as a major draw. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the all-ages New Year's show was added only after a significant number of tickets were sold for the other shows. ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 1999 03:37:10 GMT From: serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman) Subject: Bowery Ballroom Why the Bowery Ballroom ticks me off: The age restrictions on their shows seem practically ARBITRARY! I will have NO problems getting into Dan Bern in two weeks, but God Forbid I should see Fruvous, right? IMO, there really is no reason the Moxy Fruvous show should be 18+. I really don't get it. If you look at their calendar, you see shows of bands that appeal to older audiences that are either all-ages or 16+...and then you get to the 18-21+ shows, and it's often bands that appeal to younger audiences. IMO, BB is shooting themselves in the feet with their aging policies because they have popular and up-and-coming bands listed for 18 or 21+, when the audience that those bands is really dependent on, is for the most part 18-. As to the whole concept of age restrictions, they're annoying, but the arguments for and against them are both pertinent. Whoever made the comment about soda being $2.50-$3.00, the same amount as a beer, they're right. Irving Plaza's prices on drinks are heinous. The only venue I've been at (w/o a water fountain) that gives free water is Wetlands. (heh, pun.) Anyway, if it's a band a person really wants to see, they'll probably figure out how to get in regardless. In my own perfect world, all venues would be all-ages, and should there be alcohol restrictions, then things like writsbands and handstamps would be used. I don't understand why they aren't in the first place, if non-alcoholic bevvys are just as expenisve as the alcoholic ones. Age-restricted venues shoot themselves in the feet by not taking advantage of wristbands because they lose business by the 18-'s. Okay, I believe it's time for me to relinquish the soapbox. ; ) -J PS-to whoever said they wanted to see Fruvous at Irving Plaza: I was defruginized there last November when they opened for the Violent Femmes. And yes, IP is all-ages. - -J writing a song called the Ballad of Jill V. Fruhead Member of the Jian and Murray fan clubs Owner of all the MF albums and all of Ani DiFranco's "She's too short to play me."-Joey Potter Too short to play herself in a movie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:49:45 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: One more thing about fake IDs Nate DeRose wrote: > No... but they're also not customers. > So the "satisfied customer" thing doesn't apply. > *grin* *sigh* > And incidentally, this isn't a debate over the validity of drinking, > lawrence.... so it's best not to go putting words into peoples' mouths. I'm not putting words anywhere - you specifically said you were more likely to go to a show where those are available, so by the definition of "more" you must be less likely to go to a show where they're not available. > Ahhh...... now, THIS is a good point.. though I wouldn't say "a good > portion". > I think venues, like the Iron Horse, which are all ages and serve beer > (and food!) are a great idea. > Kudos to those sort of places. actually, every venue I've ever been to, regardless of its age restrictions, has served alcohol. 9:30 Club (DC), Unspeakable in Philly, TLA (also Philly), Avalon (Boston), Metropol (Pittsburgh), Odeon, Agora (both Cleveland), and Irving Plaza (NYC) are all all-ages and all serve alcohol. and those are just the ones I've been to. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the same category. such as the Iron Horse. can anyone cite an example of an all-ages venue that specifically does not serve alcohol anywhere inside? - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #902 ********************************************