From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #848 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Friday, September 24 1999 Volume 03 : Number 848 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above [Wakko Ellington Warner-Warner III <] Re: Life in the FruWorld ["andi andrzejewski" ] Re: More on Who Wrote What [Ellen ] new fru game MDFS [Tamra ] Moxy Fruvous' pop mixes prankishness, sentimentality ["Vokes, Laurie" ] Re: Next Submission: Fell In Love [LSan497884@aol.com] Re: Next Submission: Fell In Love [lawrence solomon ] weirdo fruvous dream ["Carey Farrell" ] Re: Songs to learn? ["Carey Farrell" ] LONG: Fame, Frvous, and Frhead foibles (was: Not to paraphrase [Srm9988] Re: MDFS [trace@fruhead.com (Trace)] Jian's lectures ["Tim Deegan" ] Re: Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above [Ellen ] Find SEX, when Yahoo is not enough [g5R6b8u7N@china.com] Re: LONG: Fame, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fr=FCvous?=, and =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fr=FChead?= foibles (was: Not to paraphrase [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:39:51 GMT From: Wakko Ellington Warner-Warner III Subject: Re: Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above SugarFly26@aol.com wrote: : I agree, for some of the same reasons and for different ones. And I disagree. : I personally don't think Fruvous will ever become really mainstream : Aerosmith, Grateful Dead Beatles popular. To be fair, the Dead were never really truly "mainstream". They had one top-10 hit in their 30-year careers, and it came very late at that. What they did have, and what Fruvous has as well, is an extremely loyal, dedicated fan base. Fruvous' is just smaller right now. There's no reason, however, that the band can't sell out Yankee Stadium some day and still maintain their artistic integrity (to employ a horribly overused term.) Nobody waves the "sellout" stick at the Dave Matthews Band, yet they invariably sell out every enormous venue they play. So did the Grateful Dead, and so do dozens and dozens of other incredibly talented bands. I think the reason for this is that there still exists a large number of people who love exceptionally talented live bands. The clientele at an N'Sync concert is definitely vastly different from a Fruvous show, and, while semitalented, one-hit hacks will continue to play to huge audiences, I don't anticipate a dearth of people lining up to purchase tickets for Phish shows any time soon. A band doesn't need to be mainstream to make a lot of money. It just helps. - - A.P. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:50:29 GMT From: "andi andrzejewski" Subject: Re: Life in the FruWorld On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:42:03 Amy Walker wrote: >I do have a question... > >If you were to meet one of the band members on the street tomorrow and were honored with an hour of their time, what would you do/say? And of course, you need to include who you would most like to spend these priceless sixty minutes with. Keep it clean kids... >Although I would love to have this opportunity with all the lads for the purposes of this fantasy I'd have to pick Dave. As far as what I would do/say, since this waas on a street corner first thing i'd try to do is get him to one of the local coffee shops (or someplace a lot less busy than a street corner )sit down and talk.I've had the opportunity to (a very long time ago) to sit on stage,after a show, and talk with him for ten minets or so and he is probably the sweetest man I've ever met (Mike runs a very,very close second). Dave is also one of the most intelligent men I've met an i absolutly love talking to him.Although for this dream I think I'd start talking to him about books and finding out what he's reading these days and then perhaps,if I could work up the courage I 'd ask about where he finds his inspiration for both lyrics and music,what he'd like to do in the future( both with Fruvous and in other avenues ) and where he'd like to be in ten years. Something else I'd like to know is how he keeps each show fresh and if he has any tips for budding musicians ( I have a cousin,who is 10 and has taught himself keyboard and guitar,and is now working on flute) Mostly though I'd like to listen to what he has to say . andi ps at falcon ridge the gods smiled on me and i got to have dinner with Murray and made an ass out of myself ( sigh, that what i get for trying to over come extreme shyness.) Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:17:14 GMT From: Ellen Subject: Re: More on Who Wrote What In article <12ae8b02.251bfdce@aol.com>, Raenfaerie@aol.com wrote: > Funny; i had *always* seen Laika as a Dave song until now. I can just It could be. Remember, I am operating under the assumption that in most cases, the lead singer wrote (conceived) the lyrics. That could be totally wrong. peace, ellen (my boss in grad school didn't like it when i said that everything we know about protein structure could be totally wrong, too. ;) *************************************** My kingdom for a new sig. *sigh* Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:27:20 GMT From: Tamra Subject: new fru game MDFS OK, I am sploinking down the gauntlet for a new game: Minimalist Deconstruction of Fru Songs. Here's how you play: pick a Fru song. Using only, I mean ONLY!, FIVE words (and little words like and, or, the, etc. COUNT) describe in a succinct manner (this is *not* meant to be mysterious), your pick. Then the rest of us guess, or not, or just pride ourselves on knowing we knew without gloating via the list =) Or if games do not really appeal, just list your entry(s). Examples: Personal Devotion for Supervisory Unit = I Love My Boss Simple! Of course, refering to the actually title vs. describing content is personal choice. Example: Relationship with Psycho Idiot Female = Fell In Love Okay, your turn....please reference MDFS in the subjest line so the 5th graders who don't like to play with us won't be bothered :) (note the smiley! -- I am making a joke, *not* ragging on any actual people on this list who may happen to be in the 5th grade...whew!) tamra I need distractions today, can't you tell?? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:54:35 GMT From: "Vokes, Laurie" Subject: Moxy Fruvous' pop mixes prankishness, sentimentality This is a review (obviously ) from the Milwaukee Show at Shank Hall 9/19/99 The guy who wrote this -well in my opinion I consider him the readers digest writer of reviews: Moxy Fruvous' pop mixes prankishness, sentimentality By Nick Carter of the Journal Sentinel staff Last Updated: Sept. 20, 1999 Canadian pop has again ventured south. In the '70s, Americans heard the Top-40 balladeering of Anne Murray and the progressive-rock sounds of Rush. A few years back a new, humor-laced brand of pop came from eventual stars Barenaked Ladies. A better representation of that approach made its way Sunday night to Shank Hall, where the Toronto-based pop quartet Moxy Fruvous performed. Though a thousand times less popular than Barenaked Ladies, Moxy Fruvous is similar in that it borrows scads of pop-music poses, styles and imagery and patches them into a pastiche held together by satirical lyrics, intentionally affected vocals and ironic, Letterman-like patter between songs. The show started off with banjoist Dave Matheson picking out a few notes from "Dueling Banjos" (the "Deliverance" theme) which segued into a few verses of Eric Clapton's "Lay Down Sally," but with improvised lyrics focusing on Milwaukee, Shank Hall and the audience. "Michigan Militia" continued the band's essentially irreverent mood: Bassist Murray Foster laid down a slow and sinuous bass line nestled between the snare-and-cymbal-only percussion of Jian Ghomeshi; Matheson provided a few funk-embellishing banjo rhythms; singer-guitarist Mike Ford rapped a send-up of a verse through a miniature bullhorn, giving the vocals a sampled and robotized texture. But when the group put aside its prankishness and returned to its roots, it became clear its usually hidden sentimentality rests in British and American-style guitar pop of the '60s. "I Will Hold On" showed this unfettered side, with Ghomeshi moving to lead vocals of a slightly nasal, Dylan-like feel, above a pop sound and arrangement reminiscent of the Beatles' "I Should've Known Better." Then it was back to the parody, with a few verses of Johnny Cash's "Folsom Prison Blues," followed by "We're Going to the Moon," which had the members singing the Broadway musical-esque number a capella and moving in unison through a loose and campy choreography. "Stuck in the '90s" had the band strictly in "topical" and painfully serious mode, with Ghomeshi treating the assembled to a 10-minute lecture on the news-behind-the-news in East Timor. But the song alone made for an adequate commentary, in turns moving and hilarious, and would have been all the more effective without its preceding manifesto. Just before the end of the regular portion of the show came "Get in the Car," which, beyond the lyrics, sounded like a slight rearrangement of the Beatles' '66 single "Taxman." Laurie Vokes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:34:55 -0400 From: "Jerry Levine/ Madd Hatter" Subject: Re: Places names was:Arab names Huh? All I know is that I would love to name my children (whenever I get married, et. al.) Talia Hope (for a girl) and Quinn ( for a boy)...I'm really fond of the name Talia. It's Hebrew for Joy, and it's slightly greek after the muse of Comedy, Thalila. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------- Jerry S. Levine In a mad world only the mad are sane. - Akira Kurosawa maddhatter@nospam.earthling.net jlevine.damnthespam@wam.umd.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:50:47 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: More on Who Wrote What Raenfaerie@aol.com wrote: > [1] there was a movie about that, Multiplicity. An overscheduled family man > cloned himself and there were ... difficulties. Apparently. "Steve... Steve... did you bring me a Monkey Steve?" - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:01:47 GMT From: LSan497884@aol.com Subject: Re: Next Submission: Fell In Love In a message dated 9/23/99 8:04:45 PM Central Daylight Time, daancing_queen@hotmail.com writes: > So for me "she set my schoolhouse on fire" is about that moment - as other > people have said, to do with innocence. As well, maybe it's a symbol of a > deep slow burning love, rather than the love that sets off big fireworks in > the sky. Or is it possible that "schoolhouse" is an analogy for that person's body? I'm thinking that in the same way the body is referred to as a "temple" in some religious interpretations, it can also be referred to as a "schoolhouse" in the sense that the person is continually learning? Just a thought... *Lois (Fogeyfru) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:59:43 -0400 From: lawrence solomon Subject: Re: Next Submission: Fell In Love LSan497884@aol.com wrote: > Or is it possible that "schoolhouse" is an analogy for that person's body? > I'm thinking that in the same way the body is referred to as a "temple" in > some religious interpretations, it can also be referred to as a "schoolhouse" > in the sense that the person is continually learning? Just a thought... Well, that could certainly give us a new interpretation of a certain line in Green Eggs and Ham, too, couldn't it? :) - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:28:03 GMT From: "Carey Farrell" Subject: weirdo fruvous dream The other night I had a dream that Murray was the original bassist for the Moody Blues (yes, the lyrical genius responsible for "Here Comes the Weekend"), and that I was searching all these record stores trying to find his rare and highly-collectible solo album. I think I should stop reading ammf and checking FHDC so close to bedtime. Carey ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:23:34 GMT From: "Carey Farrell" Subject: Re: Songs to learn? Andrew wrote: >I'm currently learning to play acoustic guitar. I'm >making a list of songs that I want to learn to play >(along with learning theory at the same time). Most >of my material is from Fruvous, and have already started >in on "Fly". Here's my list, if anyone has any good >additions to add from either Fruvous or another band >that make for good learning songs, please let me know. Drinking Song! Drinking Song! That was the first Fruvous song I learned how to play, and it's pretty basic chord-strumming stuff, good for beginning guitarists. MBLABOA is also easy if you play it in a different key (I forget what the original chords are, but I play them as GCDG). Carey "Dr Davis: he speaks poetry and brings us cheer!" -- one of my slowly-being-converted friends ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:12:32 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: LONG: Fame, Frvous, and Frhead foibles (was: Not to paraphrase debs bounced in to say some things concerning the Frü Four and their incipient fame and glory, then added: > I just wish them the world. They've touched my life with such joy and given me > the most moving music and for that I am eternally greatful....But I just don't > see them ever cowering from anything, especially not rabid fans...b/c let's > face it guys: some of us are pretty far over the moon for them right now. Talk > about obsessed:) We spout %'s of how often they play which songs on fridays > when the moon is half way through it's cycle and Dave is wearing pajamas, but > not sunglasses in odd numbered years...We travel across oceans and country > boarders and age barriers just to hear one song...We create wonderful > webshrines in honor of Them and of Those Who Love Them...basically we already > *are* those fans that *should* create that worry:) (but not in a bad way) Well ... ahem. Sometimes I do wonder. And other times I get to meander a bit. Like now f'rinstance ... (that'a warning, folks; Lori veers into previously unexplored lands here. Buckle your seatbelts! :) ) There were moments this summer, as Trace and I Frütripped all over the galaxy, that I thought yes, maybe we *are* something to worry about. Not me and Trace in particular, but the loosely-organized community we call Früheads, that is comprised of people subject, in varying degrees, to the truly zany and wonderful obsession debs describes above. Because we're crazy in love with this amazing band, and because they're incredibly open people, not hiding behind an entourage of handlers and guards, we have a lot of access to them. They thrive on their "community", encourage it at every turn, and as a result many of us feel a bond with the band and with each other. Mostly, that's wonderful. But imho there's another, less lighthearted aspect too. Sometimes the interconnections in this "community," and between it and the band, make it dangerously easy, in careless or unthinking moments, for people to blur the lines between what is appropriate fan conduct and what is more appropriate to a friendship, or being buddies, or *something* that implies reciprocity and a one-on-one relationship. And within that blur, the distinction between fans and band, or between band members' public personas and their private lives, can become entirely too nebulous. Yes, the members of the band have friends. Certainly, as individuals and as a group, they have fans. Some of their friends are also fans, in the sense of participating in the Frühead community. And there's nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with fans -- or friends of band members -- forming friendships among themselves. BUT: It does complicate matters. And I think that's something Früheads, friends or fans or whatever they are, need to be aware of when interacting with the band AND with one another. Otherwise breach of privacy, betrayal of confidence, and a casual presumption of closer relationships than really exist between the band and various people can too easily occur. Over the past couple of months, I have heard of or witnessed several troubling incidents -- such as a band member's words from a private communication being disseminated to multiple others; or highly personal information revealed during a general gathering -- that make me question whether we don't view ourselves *too much* as a community. Whether the band, in its efforts to reach out to us, and perhaps their very real desire to form or maintain friendships with *some* Früheads, isn't sacrificing a great deal of their personal privacy in part because of the "community" mindset. Whether in the slightly loopy atmosphere of Frütripping, of attending shows and meeting the same fun people over and over again, of sharing silly moments and recounting details of other shows and getting very little sleep, we don't lose sight of discretion, of what the boundaries are between us, the band, the individual band members, and other Früheads. Obviously, when we meet each other we'll talk about topics of mutual interest, and that means the band's going to be a big conversation piece. And sometimes that will involve speculation, or gossip -- not necessarily admirable, but we're human, and as such we're prone to it. That's not really what I'm talking about. What I *am* concerned with is what seems to be a pattern of truly private information being readily revealed, on matters that I can see no reason for me, given my relationship (or lack thereof) with the band members, to have knowledge of. Things the band has not publicized, so I take it these are not matters for public consumption -- yet I hear of them anyway, not because I inquired about them but because somebody, somewhere along the line, engaged in private communication with one or more band members and then thought the details were appropriate for general Frühead conversation. And as in the old L'Oreal commercial, those who learn it tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so on ... Not that there aren't things in private conversation that *can* be legitimately taken to to amm-f, or IRC, or to folks we bump into at the next show we attend. I would consider such things as one of the band telling me they're going to try to hit a certain area on the next tour; or that they're planning to go into the studio at a certain time, as band-related news, not their personal sphere, and Früheads in general are kept informed of in band-related developments. What's NOT legitimate information to convey, imho, is things of a more personal nature. (I say imho, but with the clarification that I've talked this over with Trace and a few others, in an attempt to pinpoint what has made us so uncomfortable, and essential it's *our* ho, not just mine. :) ) Things like who has been feeling lousy -- and what the doctor said. Or which Frü has dated whom, with sundry details. Or who's ticked off about something that happened on the Frübus. That's the type of thing that I feel, if the band member in question wanted it to be public, he'd make a more general-audience statement. And if it wasn't general knowledge, but he wanted me, specifically, to know about it for some reason, he'd tell me about it himself. Barring either of those occurrences, I feel it's none of my business. And being in the position of having access to it through other Früheads -- of being aware that not just "trolly" rumors, but a bandmember's words, confidentially shared, are floating around out there, that I *could* know them if I chose to -- makes me exceedingly uncomfortable. Inadvertently I feel I've crossed, or very easily could cross, a barrier that none of the band has invited me to cross -- and frankly, without their express invitation I don't want to. I think this casual sharing of private information also may have the overall effect of blurring the boundaries between what is and is not acceptable "fan" contact with band members. If some in the community, whether fans or those the band might consider friends, indiscriminately share details of their dealings with the band, others, caught up in the "friendly" spirit, may fall under the impression that this is usual, desirable fan interaction, and try to pursue similar contacts. And even if they're completely inoffensive in content, I can only imagine such unsolicited, uninvited attempts -- whether invitations or emails or phone calls -- would become very wearing, *very* quickly, on four men who I can only assume already have quite full lives, and not enough time at home for the relationships they already have. So what's the answer? I don't know. But as the Frühead "community" becomes bigger I think all of us -- friends, fans or whatever we are -- need to be very aware of our own discretion. We need to respect any level of access the band may have given us as individuals -- whether it's sharing a word with us after a show, or exchanging email or phone calls -- and not assume that what they may share with one of us is fit for general knowledge and dissection. We also, above all, need to be aware of those boundaries -- because, inevitably, they *will* be crossed. Sometimes mistakes are made, and sometimes people are indiscreet. None of us has to compound the problem, however. Erring on the side of caution is far better than spreading too much information, indiscriminately, or taking too much for granted. The Frü Four seem to enjoy thoroughly the "community" they've inspired. Please let's not take advantage of that. We all admire them -- but let's show it responsibly, with respect for their personal boundaries. They give us far more than they need to. Let's not grasp at what should be theirs to share with whom they choose, and not with the world at large (or even FHDC at large.) Trying to take more than we've been offered, or surreptitiously seeking it out; repeating their words to others who never were intended to hear them; flooding their email accounts or answering machines with messages -- none of that is being a fan *or* a friend. That's indiscretion, and taking advantage of good will, and even harassment. And ultimately, if such things happen regularly we *will* risk losing the band access we so treasure. - -- Lori ********************************* Yikes! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:45:28 GMT From: trace@fruhead.com (Trace) Subject: Re: MDFS On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:27:20 GMT, Tamra wrote: >Minimalist Deconstruction of Fru Songs. > >Here's how you play: pick a Fru song. Using only, I mean ONLY!, >FIVE words (and little words like and, or, the, etc. COUNT) >describe in a succinct manner (this is *not* meant to be mysterious), >your pick. Then the rest of us guess, or not, or just pride ourselves >on knowing we knew without gloating via the list =) > >Or if games do not really appeal, just list your entry(s). >Examples: >Personal Devotion for Supervisory Unit = I Love My Boss >Simple! Ok, I'll bite. 1. Don't Sweat the Small Stuff 2. Your Significant Other Really Sucks 3. "Yeah honey, I hear ya." 4. Woman Indicted after University Scandal 5. Arachnophile Spearheads Radical Militia Movement 6. In Life, Chaos Reigns Supreme! - -- Trace trace at fruhead dot com Maybe we're just looking at a funhouse mirror and loving our reflections ~MPG~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:09:59 -0400 From: "Tim Deegan" Subject: Jian's lectures <<"Stuck in the '90s" had the band in strictly "topical" and painfully serious mode, with Ghomeshi treating the assembled to a ten-minute lecture on the news-behind-the-news in East Timor.>> um, am i the only one who *isn't* surprised? on a somewhat related note, a question i plan on asking Jian the next time i talk to him is "what's your opinion of Mrs. Clinton running for nys senator?" i figure that it will lead into a lecture one way or another. heeheehee... Maggie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:17:07 GMT From: Ellen Subject: Re: Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above In article , Wakko Ellington Warner-Warner III wrote: > What they did have, and what Fruvous has as well, is an extremely > loyal, dedicated fan base. Yes, exactly. What truly sets apart bands-with-'heads is that the heads are a strong community that knows that traveling great distances to see abnormally large numbers of shows is worth every minute. And when the band's time in the sun is over, the heads look back and say "thank you," because they really feel like they've been given something. And we have. =) > no reason, however, that the band can't sell out Yankee Stadium some > day and still maintain their artistic integrity (to employ a horribly > overused term.) How about just plain integrity? The Dead are a stellar example of this: go to their web site sometime and read about the Rex Foundation. And GratefulDeadTicketSales, who ran the sale and distribution of probably half of all the concert tickets they sold. Without service charges. > Nobody waves the "sellout" stick at the Dave Matthews Band, yet > they invariably sell out every enormous venue they play. Unfortunately, plenty of people in the deadhead community do. DMB was, for a long time, looked upon as the next great hope, particularly for 'heads who weren't so into Phish. Now that DMB has developed more of its own style and coincidentally also attracts everyone from frat boys to housewives to their concerts, a lot of those people feel let down, because they've become too mainstream. A lot have written DMB off. Not me, though; I think they're wonderful and their live shows put to rest any doubt that they can carry the jamband torch. > I don't anticipate a dearth of people lining up to purchase > tickets for Phish shows any time soon. Just ask the residents of Oswego, NY. [1] peace, ellen (i just love it when people speak well of my favorite bands =) [1] or ask me, b/c i made my way through about 70 thousand people to get there. *************************************** We are islands to each other Building hopeful bridges On a troubled sea. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:28:01 GMT From: g5R6b8u7N@china.com Subject: Find SEX, when Yahoo is not enough SEX, SEX, SEX You can't live without it ====================>>> http://wwwfindsex.com takes up where Yahoo left off.... Make the web simple, find the best sites quickly. Find out what's HOT and what's NOT. www.findsex.com saves you time and insures you DON'T MISS ANYTHING!! Our spiders crawl around the web every night to find the best and the NEWEST! We crawl over every body... we caress and we stroke, we tickle and we poke. We don't miss a thing. 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And there's nothing wrong with > that. as long as it's invited. a friend of one or more of the members of the band becoming a fan, I can see quite easily. but a fan becoming a close friend seems like it has to be the kind of thing that the band members actively allow. most of us, as fans, started out not knowing the members of the band at all, probably not even remembering all their names on the first try. ("Murray..... Ford, right?" :) And when we meet them at a show, they're in "band mode." that is to say, they're still the members of Moxy Früvous when we meet them. but let's say that, while a fan, you encounter one of them outside the concert setting. Say at a hockey game. You strike up a conversation (because both of you are friendly people) and it turns out you have stuff in common and are really "on the same wavelength," so to speak. So after that game, you keep in touch. Now you've made a friendship with a person you met at a hockey game and is a really cool person, who happens to be a member of a band you like. > Over the past couple of months, I have heard of or witnessed several > troubling incidents -- such as a band member's words from a private > communication being disseminated to multiple others; or highly personal > information revealed during a general gathering -- that make me question > whether we don't view ourselves *too much* as a community. Whether this is disturbing - and since they must eventually find out that it's happening, it destroys the sense of trust they had with the people they gave the information to in the first place. but that's really true of any group of friends. if I said something personal to someone on the newsgroup in a personal e-mail and it ended up being posted here, or even discussed in a large group without my permission, I'd be pretty peeved. but in the case where band members are involved, it's more complicated, because they didn't need to have that trust for their fans to begin with. > Not that there aren't things in private conversation that *can* be > legitimately taken to to amm-f, or IRC, or to folks we bump into at the > next show we attend. I would consider such things as one of the band > telling me they're going to try to hit a certain area on the next tour; or > that they're planning to go into the studio at a certain time, as > band-related news, not their personal sphere, and Früheads in general are > kept informed of in band-related developments. even as far as that goes, though, there are limits. I seem to recall a certain show late last October where the concept of the show was planned very much in advance and was intended to be a surprise, but was inadvertently leaked to the newsgroup (along with the e-mail address of one of the band members) If one of them told you "We'll be playing Bed and Breakfast at our next show in Philadelphia," wouldn't you want to keep that a surprise? :) > What's NOT legitimate information to convey, imho, is things of a more > personal nature. (I say imho, but with the clarification that I've talked > this over with Trace and a few others, in an attempt to pinpoint what has > made us so uncomfortable, and essential it's *our* ho, not just mine. :) ) > Things you do, of course realize how bad the phrase "*our* ho" sounds, right? :) > like who has been feeling lousy -- and what the doctor said. Or which Frü > has dated whom, with sundry details. Or who's ticked off about something > that happened on the Frübus. what reason would anyone have for giving out this information? if we're fans, wouldn't it *not* be in our best interest to say something that might be damaging to one of them? > That's the type of thing that I feel, if the band member in question wanted > it to be public, he'd make a more general-audience statement. And if it > wasn't general knowledge, but he wanted me, specifically, to know about > it for some reason, he'd tell me about it himself. that, too, depends on the setting, though - if he tells you personally after a show when lots of other people are hanging around, you can usually be sure that someone else heard it, and he didn't take too much caution in making sure you were the only one who knew. if he pulls you aside and says "I need to tell someone about this..." then it's a good bet he wants it kept very private. > I think this casual sharing of private information also may have the overall > effect of blurring the boundaries between what is and is not acceptable "fan" > contact with band members. If some in the community, whether fans or > those the band might consider friends, indiscriminately share details of > their dealings with the band, others, caught up in the "friendly" spirit, may > fall under the impression that this is usual, desirable fan interaction, and > try to pursue similar contacts. And even if they're completely inoffensive > in content, I can only imagine such unsolicited, uninvited attempts -- > whether invitations or emails or phone calls -- would become very wearing, > *very* quickly, on four men who I can only assume already have quite full > lives, and not enough time at home for the relationships they already have. True enough. Not to mention there are ways of contacting them and sending "fan mail" without making it personal. Sending a letter to "Murray Foster c/o Moxy Früvous" is perfectly acceptable. Sending a letter to "Murray Foster"[1] at his home address is not. But I should *hope* that all Früheads are aware of that, as it's simply common courtesy. > So what's the answer? I don't know. But as the Frühead "community" > becomes bigger I think all of us -- friends, fans or whatever we are -- need > to be very aware of our own discretion. We need to respect any level of > access the band may have given us as individuals -- whether it's sharing a > word with us after a show, or exchanging email or phone calls -- and not > assume that what they may share with one of us is fit for general knowledge > and dissection. And I hope, for the sake of *not* losing this relationship with the band, that they do see this thread and realize that there are still responsible fans who feel this way.[2] > We also, above all, need to be aware of those boundaries -- because, > inevitably, they *will* be crossed. Sometimes mistakes are made, and > sometimes people are indiscreet. None of us has to compound the problem, > however. Erring on the side of caution is far better than spreading too much > information, indiscriminately, or taking too much for granted. It's not even really "erring" on the side of caution - You can't be too careful. If a band member wants someone to know something, he'll tell that person, or tell an audience that person is in. I'd say it's almost *never* our job to tell other fans about goings-on with the band. > The Frü Four seem to enjoy thoroughly the "community" they've inspired. > Please let's not take advantage of that. We all admire them -- but let's > show it responsibly, with respect for their personal boundaries. They give > us far more than they need to. Let's not grasp at what should be theirs > to share with whom they choose, and not with the world at large (or even > FHDC at large.) Trying to take more than we've been offered, or > surreptitiously seeking it out; repeating their words to others who never > were intended to hear them; flooding their email accounts or answering > machines with messages -- none of that is being a fan *or* a friend. > That's indiscretion, and taking advantage of good will, and even > harassment. And ultimately, if such things happen regularly we *will* > risk losing the band access we so treasure. or those who abuse it will end up with restraining orders and such, which is still unpleasant, as they would have to go to court and take *more* time out of their own personal lives that they have very little time in to begin with. Either way, we'd lose if that happened. I wish there were an appropriate song lyric to summarize this whole point, but I can't think of one. [1] I chose Murray arbitrarily. I flipped two coins. No need for Dave's People, Jian's People, or Mike's People to get annoyed with me. :) [2] Yes, it sounds like I'm being selfish here and saying "Hey, you can trust me. Tell me everything." But I'm speaking (I hope) for all the Früheads whose response to the idea of not sharing private information is "duh." - -- lawrence solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "You knew it was true, when I held you, there were no secrets. I believed it." -Moxy Früvous, _I Will Hold On_ ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #848 ********************************************