From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #846 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Thursday, September 23 1999 Volume 03 : Number 846 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Musings from Starfox [Andrew LeCren ] Songs to learn? [Andrew LeCren ] Re:OT: car mileage (not that I have one) [Donna Hunt ] Re: More on Who Wrote What [Raenfaerie@aol.com] Re: Arab names [fruwench@aol.com (FruWench)] Re: Umlauts [Melanie ] Re: All of the Above [Melanie ] Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above [serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman)] Re: *itinerary* ["Gramcracker" ] Re: Lorne Is Dead (was Re: second Conan song) [piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOP] Re: Fox Thing In The Morning [piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOPINTO)] Re: 11/21 Boston Question ["Ken V" ] Re: umlauts ["Snow In Summer" ] Re: OT: car mileage (not that I have one) [Nate DeRose ] Re: ot: john galt [Luella Benn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:09:39 -0400 From: Andrew LeCren Subject: Musings from Starfox Yes, well it's me, Starfox. I haven't in a long long while, and generally don't keep up with the newsgroup any more, but after seeing Fruvous this past weekend, and picking my way through the ng here at fruhead.com, I have a few disjoint things to comment/share. On Moxy Fruvous making it big: Sure, as their popularity and size of their general fan base grows, we will have to accept the inevitability that they may not be as accessible in the future. Does this bother me? Yes and no. Yes in that an aspect of the "Fruvous Experience" will be lost, but no in that it means the lads will be enjoying tremendous success. Also, consider how they might feel. I get the honest impression that most of the time they enjoy meeting and chatting with the fans. How will they feel if the day comes where they will have to be more reserved? On songs/writers: I generally like Jian's songs dealing with love. Mostly because he seems like a cynic, whereas I am a romantic. "I Will Hold On" is particularly moving for me as it warns of the problems of letting your heart get too far ahead of your brain. Musically, I like Murray's singing. In my opinion, and this is certainly not meant as a stab at any of the other lads vocalization (cuz they all sing better than I ever could) he has the more melodic and pleasing voice. Jian has a nice range on his voice, and blends well with the others. But for some reason I prefer songs where Murray sings solo. That being said, vocally, I love the "this is just a movie" line that Jian sings in "Splatter Splatter". It's a great offset to Mike's singing. Last note on songs and an open comment to Mike that I forgot to mention to him in Milwaukee. I *love* "If Only You Knew", it's a very touching love song, without being totally sappy and mushy. I must say though, it lost some of it's power when the accompainment was added for the album. When it was just Mike and a guitar, it was more powerful. Lastly, I enjoyed seeing Fruheads again. After a 7 month hiatus, it was nice to be around such fun people again. I had a great time in Chicago and Milwaukee. Thanks again to wildbill for the crash space in Chicago, and to Sara and Josh, who are always fun. Have fun y'all! - -Starfox (Andy) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:28:37 -0400 From: Andrew LeCren Subject: Songs to learn? I'm currently learning to play acoustic guitar. I'm making a list of songs that I want to learn to play (along with learning theory at the same time). Most of my material is from Fruvous, and have already started in on "Fly". Here's my list, if anyone has any good additions to add from either Fruvous or another band that make for good learning songs, please let me know. Da List: Fly Horseshoes I Will Hold On Independence Day If Only You Knew River Valley Other artists in the list: The Trees (Rush) All In My Mind - Acoustic version (Love and Rockets) Broon's Bane (Rush) This list isn't complete and it's what I'm starting with right now. I also don't have all Fruvous' CDs with me right now, so I'm sure there will be other songs added. I'm basically looking for good acoustic guitar parts, not electric. Regards, Starfox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:43:08 -0400 From: Donna Hunt Subject: Re:OT: car mileage (not that I have one) "Vokes, Laurie" wrote: > what types of cars are these? I dunno about Ln's Dad's, but my car is a second hand '85 Toy Celica. It's older than *all* of my students. :) They remind me of that all the time. "Miss Hunt, you have *the OLDEST* car!" *sigh* ciao, donna --"What's that band's name? MOE-exee..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:12:11 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: More on Who Wrote What Funny; i had *always* seen Laika as a Dave song until now. I can just picture him a three year old/five year old, eating up his greens and saying grace in front of the TV. Bald, of course. But on the same (sort of) topic, the best part of that line is " ... and walk by with my substitue"! It has important ramifications (sp?) on the cloning debate. At least, that's what i think of everytime I hear it, just a bunch of substitutes walking around. [1] - -mm- [1] there was a movie about that, Multiplicity. An overscheduled family man cloned himself and there were ... difficulties. Apparently. << Laika (the title sets up the space fantasy; the unrequited love part comes through with “But still on earth I thrive... and you pretend I'm not alive”). >> ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 1999 22:45:39 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (FruWench) Subject: Re: Arab names And don't forget Florence. ladywench "Music not danced to is music wasted." - Eileen Ivers, PFF 38 FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:05:36 GMT From: Melanie Subject: Re: Umlauts Ross and others wrote: >>>If you're using a Windows pc then hold down Alt and then press 0 2 5 2 on the numeric pad. That gets you a umlauted u.<<< I tried it. I am thrilled. Have I mentioned that I am easily thrilled? However, I've noticed that some people's umlauted u transmits as a lower case N. I kept wondering why folks were writing Frnvous. from melanie who wishes she had a ü in her name, but mülanie sounds very unattractive. Looks cute though. *grin* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:58:25 GMT From: Melanie Subject: Re: All of the Above Amy asked: >>>"How do you feel when you imagine Moxy Fruvous as a big time, stadium playing band that never comes out after shows for fear of being swamped by the masses?"<<< I've pondered this a bit since a similar thread ran through the summer. First, let me say that I discovered Moxy Fruvous about a year ago, saw my first concert last October, and have been haunting FDC since then watching for shows I could make--now up to 5 (or 6 counting an in-store). This is so uncharacteristeric of me that I used to obsess about why I was obsessed. But lots of others seem pretty much in the same place, so this reaction to Moxy Fruvous is clearly a phenomenon. I don't stand right in the front at concerts, but I'm inching closer. I know many of the lyrics but not Green Eggs and Ham. I've met each of the band members but none of them would remember me, I'm sure. Some Fruheads say they now go to concerts for the community, quoting Murray, "First we were the reason, then the excuse, now we're irrelevant." But I've only just started meeting other Frufans, which is great and I love it, but I still go pretty exclusively for the band. I am thrilled when I hear a MF song on the radio. OK, so I'm easily thrilled. I'm sure that if/when I see them on TV or the mainstream media, I'll be equally thrilled. Fame is a fleeting thing, and they should grab all they can while they can. No one deserves it more. And I believe that they can maintain their personal and artistic integrity in the midst of it. Above all, I think that they will be able to stay true to who they are, not easy for famous people who have fans projecting onto them who the fans THINK they are, and suits telling them who they should be. I'd miss the intimacy of the small venues, and would probably not be able to or interested in doing the kind of traveling I'm willing to do now. But I'll look back on this time as magical, slightly mysterious, definitely fruvolous. Mostly, I wish Jian, Murray, Dave, and Mike the very best of artistic and financial success. Boy does that sound serious. Well, for them to get REALLY big requires people who can appreciate the brilliance of rhyming "kitchen" with "Solzhenitsyn." Peach :-) melanie ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 1999 23:13:16 GMT From: serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman) Subject: Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above ::deep breath:: I have to say...the thought of the lads going mainstream bothers me. This is odd coming from a die-hard Ani fan who gets pissed off when she's NOT mentioned on VH1 or MTV. Anyway, I when I think of the reasons as to why it bothers me, it's simple: Today's mainstream audience is so...gross. It's filled with the Britney Spears and the BSBs etc...and to add insult to injury, the lads continually get put in BNL's shadow when they *are* mentioned. Frankly, I don't think the mainstream is ready for Moxy Früvous. It expects too little of talentless "artists".(or whatever you want to call them.) We expect a lot from the lads, and they deliver, usually in excess of what we had hoped for. Maybe two years ago when the mainstream wasn't as...narrow, I would have cheered and been gung-ho for them going mainstream, but right now, the thought just makes me cringe. I mean, come on, just *how* many people do we need drooling over Jian?[1] So while I wish them the best of successes, I don't think they'd get that right now. I honestly believe that it would just be a fleeting 15 minutes of drooly adolescents and cheering TRL fans freezing their butts off in Times Sq. That's NOT what the guys should get after all this time. Sorry if this offended anyone, just my $.02 [1] this is the same situation that Jian mentioned: " Now, Ghomeshi claims that life is better outside the spotlight -- an oft-repeated cliche that is nonetheless believable in this case. "We're an underground phenomenon in the U.S." he says, citing the band's Web presence (eight sites and counting) as proof. "That feels better, because you don't have to worry (that) the teenage girls at your show are only there because they saw the video."" - -J writing a song called the Ballad of Jill V. Fruhead Member of the Jian and Murray fan clubs Owner of all the MF albums and all of Ani DiFranco's "She's too short to play me."-Joey Potter Too short to play herself in a movie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:37:53 -0400 From: "Gramcracker" Subject: Re: *itinerary* > :) Well, right now my car sits at 170,000+ miles... my goal is to hit > 200,000 before it dies. The Silver Comet is at 194,000+ and counting. I'm hoping i'll get to see a whole lotta nines turn into zeroes before the comet quits for good... sorta like I hope I get to see 1999 turn to 2000 on my watch. but that is an even i can simulate later if I miss the first time around (too much fun in the Tralf, perhaps?). Everyone send your good thoughts to the Silver Comet, that it might take me on numerous future frutrips! smoochies, meghan - ---- "The future looks like distant thunder 'cause I'm never sure that I'll get paid. And I'm pissed that I'm not gettin' younger, gettin' pretty, gettin' love, gettin' laid." -Moxy Früvous, "Earthquakes" - ----- Meghan Gramcracker is: ICQ# 17903747 http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/4448 ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 1999 00:13:41 GMT From: piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOPINTO) Subject: Re: Lorne Is Dead (was Re: second Conan song) >> >> Isn't Lorne Michaels dead? >> think someone's thinking of Brandon Tartikoff. Angel ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 1999 00:12:30 GMT From: piscopinto@aol.com (PISCOPINTO) Subject: Re: Fox Thing In The Morning >An improv tune about Fox Thing In The Morning >[Commercial] >A snippet from I Love My Boss >[Commercial] >Splatter Splatter (in its entirety) >A snippet from I Will Hold On >[roll credits] Half as Much was in there somewhere too. Man what a tease those snippets were !!! Not on TV but actually being there and playing like a minute of the song!! > and half the >clever bits seemed to go right by them: I really liked Bob: ".....Thornbill- oops, Thornhill" Dave:"The Thornbill is actually a rare Canadian bird...." but I really did like this one--- >Jian: "Well, Fruvous is Latin for reinard, which is French for fox." Angel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:04:07 -0400 From: "Ken V" Subject: Re: 11/21 Boston Question If recent shows are any indication, Jess Klein (ugh) opens fruvous shows in Boston. If she does open the Somerville show, I will be late for sure!! - -Ken Amanda K. Potter wrote in message news:27370944@donner.Dartmouth.EDU... Hi everyone! Does anyone know if there is an opening act for the Boston show? If not, what are the chances of Fruvous actually beginning playing at 8pm? Thanks! =) Amanda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:33:02 GMT From: "Snow In Summer" Subject: Re: umlauts 0100,0100,0100Lori wrote: There are other combinations for other vowels with umlauts over them, but as we don't use 'em much here I don't have them memorised. You can make some other funky symbols with the keypad and alt button too, if you should find yourself bored silly, with a few minutes to spare. There's one other commonly used diatrical (sp?) mark commonly used in the Fr=FC-realm: =EA. Where have you seen it? well, in french, the thing over the e is called a circonflex. It's seen i= n Nuits de R=EAve & is made on a WinPC by Alt+0234. ok, so, it's not an umlaut, but that's what character map is for :) - -Amy, showing what 7 years of french is good for in Buffalo.= 0100,0100,0100 "What horrifies me, these shootings happen and then the newscaster is saying, 'America has to look into its soul and ask why is this happening?= ' And as a European, you want to say, 'Because you've all got guns, you fucking moron.'" -- Hugh Grant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:06:42 -0400 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: OT: car mileage (not that I have one) Yeah. I've got a friend with a Toyota Celica that's currently at 240,000. Those early 80s Celicas were just the most well built cars you could hope for..... as long as the bodies didn't rust off. :) I owned a 1980 and two 1982's... and they both amazed me. The other nice thing is that you can take pretty much the whole car apart with a phillips screwdriver and a 11mm socket wrench. hehehhe nate Donna Hunt wrote: > > "Vokes, Laurie" wrote: > > > what types of cars are these? > > I dunno about Ln's Dad's, but my car is a second hand '85 Toy Celica. It's > older than *all* of my students. :) They remind me of that all the time. > "Miss Hunt, you have *the OLDEST* car!" > > *sigh* > > ciao, > donna > --"What's that band's name? MOE-exee..." ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 1999 00:56:08 GMT From: serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman) Subject: Re: Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above <> I guess what I'm saying is I just don't want a VH1 Behind the Music on them in two years that's along the lines of the Goo Goo Dolls one. (ie, Band who was indy for 10 years before fame got them, etc etc etc) I don't know if I'm being selfish or what...but I just don't like the idea of them being *THAT* (let's sell out Yankee stadium) popular. ::shrug:: just me. - -J writing a song called the Ballad of Jill V. Fruhead Member of the Jian and Murray fan clubs Owner of all the MF albums and all of Ani DiFranco's "She's too short to play me."-Joey Potter Too short to play herself in a movie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:54:15 GMT From: "Winnie da Fru aka Sara" Subject: Re: Next Submission: Fell In Love >I think we can assume that the second meaning is more likely. ;) On a >less analytical level, though, isn't "set my schoolhouse on fire" sort of >an established expression? Or did I just make that up in my head? It >seems like when I first heard FiL, I recognized that expression from >somwhere, and it means-- to use the expression I would have used in >college-- "she rocked my world." I've never heard of it as an expression, but here is my interpretation on it. For me, it refers to fireworks - the schoolhouse was always my favourite when I was a kid. Maybe it's a Canadianism, I don't know, but the schoolhouse is one of the most pathetic of all fireworks - it's just that, a little schoolhouse that sits there and burns (while everyone sits around singing about the school burning down). Nothing flashy, no big sparks in the sky - just burns down slowly. But it's always a big hit with the kids (almost as cool as getting your sparkler at the end of the night!). So for me "she set my schoolhouse on fire" is about that moment - as other people have said, to do with innocence. As well, maybe it's a symbol of a deep slow burning love, rather than the love that sets off big fireworks in the sky. Or something along those lines - I never was good at high school english. Sara, who oddly enough was singing this song in my head all day yesterday, so thanks to Angie for bringing it up! :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 1999 00:55:15 GMT From: dstbunnny@aol.com (DstBunnny) Subject: Re: Who Wrote What Chad wrote: >DstBunnny wrote: >> Anyone know how many instances there are of the writer of a song not being >the >> lead singer? I know there's "The Drinking Song," and I once read that >"River >> Valley" was written by Mike, but that's it. >If someone on stage gets mentioned as the "writer" of a song, it's >usually because the original came from them before it was arranged >as a live song and usually that song fits the person's personality. >Jian especially since he shows his opinions readily on stage. > >But when you get down to credit, the entire band gets credit >where credit is due. >I'd guess that you wouldn't be surprised by the number of songs >where the person singing lead is the original conceiver of the >song, but I think there're a couple of songs you'd be >surprised who brought them to the group. > Oh, yes, that's really what I was trying to ask in my original question. I was just careless in my use of the word "writer," where the phrase "original conceiver" would've been more appropriate. Didn't mean to devalue Früvous as a collective songwriting force, if it seemed like that's what I was doing. I hope I haven't offended anyone. ;) Christine "As you make your way through this hectic world of ours, set aside a few minutes each day. At the end of the year, you'll have a couple of days saved up." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:46:57 GMT From: SugarFly26@aol.com Subject: Re: Fame? WAS- Re: All of the Above I wasn't going to comment on this, simply because I have mixed feelings that I can't quite explain, but there's some stuff in this one I wanted to respond to. serra44@aol.com wrote: <::deep breath:: Anyway, when I think of the reasons as to why it bothers me, it's simple: Today's mainstream audience is so...gross. It's filled with the Britney Spears and the BSBs etc...and to add insult to injury, the lads continually get put in BNL's shadow when they *are* mentioned. Frankly, I don't think the mainstream is ready for Moxy Früvous. It expects too little of talentless "artists".(or whatever you want to call them.) We expect a lot from the lads, and they deliver, usually in excess of what we had hoped for. Maybe two years ago when the mainstream wasn't as...narrow, I would have cheered and been gung-ho for them going mainstream, but right now, the thought just makes me cringe.> I agree, for some of the same reasons and for different ones. And I disagree. I personally don't think Fruvous will ever become really mainstream Aerosmith, Grateful Dead Beatles popular. Not that I think they don't have the talent for it, just that I might question whether or not mainstream music would accept that talent. It's different and to quote somebody or other (sorry, I forget who) "People are always afraid of what's different." And mainstream type bands in a lot of cases have this...almost certain format to them. They play something some way or another. And in a lot of cases, they're pretty much not famous anymore when another mainstream band people can obsess over comes along. I'm not insulting mainstream bands or people who like them, I like some of them too. While I don't wish strongly that they become famous or don't become famous, I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if they were one of the bands who was famous for a little while and then, though they kept making albums, only the dedicated to them fans would still be following them. Kinda like seeing what it would be like for them to be virtually unknown, grow, get famous, and then decline again. (Ooh, that sounds depressing.) I wonder how, if at all, it would affect the guys styles to be more known. Especially if they were known and then almost forgotten again. Is this making sense? Yeah, I get what you mean. On a slightly more positive note, not all people go to see a band, mainstream or otherwise, to drool over someone they find hot. [1] this is the same situation that Jian mentioned: " Now, Ghomeshi claims that life is better outside the spotlight -- an oft-repeated cliche that is nonetheless believable in this case. "We're an underground phenomenon in the U.S." he says, citing the band's Web presence (eight sites and counting) as proof. "That feels better, because you don't have to worry (that) the teenage girls at your show are only there because they saw the video." - -J> Yeah, I have a sorta sickening story about a girl thinking Jian's hot, just they way she was being. That's why sometimes I'm really glad I'm not cute, because then I know someone's not talking to me cuz they think I'm hot. ::yawn:: Gotta go, just taking a "quick" break from doing homework. - ------------------> Ln ------------------------------ Date: 24 Sep 1999 01:08:20 GMT From: dstbunnny@aol.com (DstBunnny) Subject: Re: Bucks County Courier Times Article Fred Wolke wrote: >On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:28:51 -0500, Josh Drury > wrote: > >>Vokes, Laurie wrote: >> >>> >>> ......So I'm reading this and imagining the guys sitting around playing >>> that Sesame Street game "one of these things does not belong here......" >>> >>> amusing nobody but myself this morning I guess. >> >>Not at all true! That's one of the catchiest Sesame Street songs out there, >>though none can compare to "One-two-three FOUR-five, six-seven-eight >NINE-ten, >>eleven twelve. (Doo do do do do doo, do do do do doo, do do do do, do >doodoo >>doo)" I'm surprised that hasn't found its way onto a Fatboy Slim song yet. > >You want to know what's REALLY scary? I know precisely what song >you're talking about! And I just sit here and wonder whether it's sadder than I know exactly what he's talking about, or that I'm giggling hysterically over it. "Fatboy Slim song"... hee. Now I'm gonna be disappointed if that doesn't actually happen someday. Thanks for the laugh, Josh. Oh, and to make this post relevant to the subject line: very nice article, Katie. I enjoyed reading it. Christine "As you make your way through this hectic world of ours, set aside a few minutes each day. At the end of the year, you'll have a couple of days saved up." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:22:03 GMT From: flmcnv@aol.com Subject: This Is The Best The Internet Has To Offer 7961 Hi, My name is Ellie and I just stumbled across what has to be the BEST source on the internet! Its totally free and easy to have the most fun ever! http://www.amylinks.com/ Visit Amys Links, its totally worth it! ndfddnwzelxlgejtpnbvlydjynhpfyudthzdwqbqrjtlyywlvx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:54:53 -0400 From: "Kate Leahy" Subject: Re: car mileage (not that I have one) /me drove a 1985 Honda Accord with 230,000 miles on it to Toronto and back this summer. Ask MC, Kath, and Mike about it :). That car is my baby. Unfortunately, I now have a different Honda. Ah well. ~~Kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@fruhead.com *********************************** "It's a long long road It's a big big world We are wise wise women We are giggling girls . . . " - --Ani DiFranco *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:20:00 -0400 From: Luella Benn Subject: Re: ot: john galt Indeed "Who is John Galt?" does open the book. I may disagree as to it being the central plot point though; more like that twist that you know is going to change your take on the novel, but only in retrospect. The type of off-handed detail that tries just a little too hard not to be seen for what it really is before the secret is revealed... But that's just my wayward opinion. As for the philosophy of the novelist; I think that taken out of context it can be very, very bad. Like that scene in 'Dirty Dancing' where Robbie hands Baby a copy of The Fountainhead and says something to the effect of: some people matter, and some people don't. That always pissed me off. I get what she's saying about being the best that you're capable of instead of lowering yourself to the societal standard or norm though; if I didn't always think the methods illustrated to go about it where so great. It makes me think of that Vonnegut novel where in order to keep everyone as equals they put mind and physical controls on everyone to bring them all down to the lowest level of being; since they can't boost people to greatness. Oh, wow, sorry about that. What I really meant to ask here was if anyone has ever heard anything about Ayn Rand's life. It was crazy how she convinced both her husband and her lover's wife that it was not just ok, but a good thing for them to have this sort of crazed relationship... It's pretty strange to hear about that and relate it to her philosophies... or maybe not now that I'm thinking about it. - --luella Jacey7 wrote: > Before the hurricane, back when both the electricity *and*the phone lines were > working in this neck o' the woods, katy wrote: > > >>well, it's a quote (damn me, for always quoting semi-obscure books)... he's a > character, and a refrain of hopeless... << > > and so on. > > I just wanted to say that I am familiar with the book, and was just attempting > (apparently unsuccessfully ;-) to reference the more often-utterred phrase, > 'Who is John Galt?" that not only (I believe) even opens the novel, but is the > central plot point. [1] > > And yes, it's very a good book, even if I tend to disagree with her philosphy. > > ~jen > [1] OK, so plot isn't really the point of this book, but it's still a good one > ;-) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 > "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover > "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #846 ********************************************