From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #788 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Sunday, September 5 1999 Volume 03 : Number 788 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Wood typos [luckydabed@aol.complexity (maria)] Re: Wood typos [traugottcm@aol.com (TraugottCM)] Trace's MPG analysis ["Tim Deegan" ] Re: Philly sold out already?!? [traugottcm@aol.com (TraugottCM)] re: Thornhill = the Beatles? ["Tim Deegan" ] Re: IMPORTANT INFO ["^kat^" ] Re: Wood typos [Nate DeRose ] Re: Thornhill = Beatles? [Tim Cain ] Re: Philly sold out already?!? [Lawrence P Solomon ] Re: i don't understand, yet again *sigh* [traugottcm@aol.com (TraugottCM)] Re: OT: Grammar (was: Wood typos) [Donna Hunt ] Re: OT: More Grammar (was: Wood typos) [Donna Hunt ] Re: www.jian.com [Myla Fantastik ] Re: Wood typos [sugarfly26@aol.com (Ln )] Re: Wood typos [happygirl@fruhead.com (Dorky Spice)] Re: Thornhill = Beatles ["Carey Farrell" ] Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO [chad schrock ] Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO [chad schrock ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 05 Sep 1999 22:14:51 GMT From: luckydabed@aol.complexity (maria) Subject: Re: Wood typos vika said: >If you >mangle your language consistently and refuse to bother to learn it >better, then you have no business complaining about people not >bothering to read your posts. If somebody doesn't want to read my post, because they don't care about the subject, or don't care for my views, or something like that, I have _no_ problem with that. But, if someone chooses not to read my posts because they find my thoughts less valid because I haven't learned all the grammatical rules, then i _do_ have a problem. I find that there is a difference. maria ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ Know therefore that the sword is a cursed thing which the wise man uses only if he must. - --Li Po ------------------------------ Date: 05 Sep 1999 22:28:36 GMT From: traugottcm@aol.com (TraugottCM) Subject: Re: Wood typos donlambert wrote: >>just maybe you should not f***ing spend your time on the internet and curl >up with your favor-ight carefully/properly editted manuscript...the i-net is >how people really communicate in the real world, not some stilted prose from >the tired/boring mind of jane eyre (no caps). > Whoa.... lighten up Francis! First of all "stilted prose" is not the same as grammatical or typographical errors. Secondly, Jane Eyre is the name of a book, not the name of an author. (Try Charlotte Bronte). Third, using the internet as a "new" communication medium doesn't (or shouldn't) abrogate the use of correct grammar, spelling, or punctuation, anymore than introduction of the telephone put an end to clear verbal communication. Stepping off the soap box... chris, who must be reading far too much of William Safire lately.. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:39:48 -0400 From: "Tim Deegan" Subject: Trace's MPG analysis all i can say is... wow. it's almost like an english class, only... interesting!! :) i think that you are right on. *Maggie is left breathless* Maggie "You gotta burn to shine" -- Ben Lee ------------------------------ Date: 05 Sep 1999 22:36:42 GMT From: traugottcm@aol.com (TraugottCM) Subject: Re: Philly sold out already?!? Lawrence P Solomon wrote: >Just got off the phone with Ticketmaster... apparently there are no more >tickets available for the Philly show on 11/19. Can anyone confirm this? Please say it isn't so, Zard and I had rather hoped to sneak out of work early and drive up for that show. Planners though we are, we *hadn't* planned quite that far ahead in our respective schedules. Does anyone have any further info, or were the funny guys at Ticketmaster playing mind games? chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:42:31 -0400 From: "Tim Deegan" Subject: re: Thornhill = the Beatles? that's exactly what I thought, too!! the first time i listened to it, i almost forgot who was singing (*almost* forgot, i knew full well who it was, but, ya know... ) Maggie... wishing it was closer to October 1st so she can end her self-inflicted punishment and listen to Fruvous again... "You gotta burn to shine" -- Ben Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:51:24 -0400 From: "^kat^" Subject: Re: IMPORTANT INFO > I have an exciting request for folks that can be in the Toronto area > on Wednesday, September 8th. The lads are shooting the video for "I > Will Hold On" with Blackwalk Productions and need about 20 extras. AAAAAAAAH! that's so wonderful! i wish i were a torontonian! ok, so this is one of those pointless, read-and-delete-type posts... i'm just so psyched to see this. it'll be interesting to see how their video-making has evolved from, say, "down from above"... *grin* ^kat^ "maybe corporate raiders got too greedy in the eighties and bought up all the direction" http://fly.to/the.midway.after.dark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:36:53 -0400 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: Wood typos Oh christ. Now we're getting trolls. :( nate donlambert wrote: > > LSan497884@aol.com wrote in message ... > >In a message dated 9/4/99 3:19:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > >happygirl@fruhead.com writes: > > > >> I'm really > >> compulsive about proofreading, and all of those errors just bug the hell > >> out of me. > > > >just maybe you should not f***ing spend your time on the internet and curl > up with your favor-ight carefully/properly editted manuscript...the i-net is > how people really communicate in the real world, not some stilted prose from > the tired/boring mind of jane eyre (no caps). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:09:10 GMT From: Tim Cain Subject: Re: Thornhill = Beatles? >Would one of the more locquacious Thornhill people like to explain this? I >see onhear only one Beatles-esue part of Thornhill [1], and I "just don't >get" the supposed similarity. Vocally, Fruvous ALWAYS reminds me of the Beatles. Their harmonies are THATTIGHT. I don't think it's an accident that they've covered "This Boy" and "Please Please Me" and we can imagine them doing plenty of other Beatles songs. I'll keep saying this until someone agrees with me, or convinces me otherwise -- "Sad Girl" steals the opening bit from "Free As a Bird." I swear. "Half As Much" should be on RUBBER SOUL. It's like an electric, de-countrified "I've Just Seen A Face." And the huge one that keeps jumping out at me is the closing riff on "My Poor Generation." It sounds like "Don't Let Me Down." Come on, Chad, this is your favorite song -- am I wrong? Now, I think Frank Zappa would be proud of the arrangement of "Earthquakes." But that's probably just me. - --tc tcain1@webmart.net "If you're waiting for a hug, you might want to pack a lunch." -- Dennis Finch, 'Just Shoot Me' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:48:26 -0400 From: Lawrence P Solomon Subject: Re: Philly sold out already?!? TraugottCM wrote: > Can anyone confirm this? Please say it isn't so, Zard and I had rather hoped > to sneak out of work early and drive up for that show. Planners though we are, > we *hadn't* planned quite that far ahead in our respective schedules. Does > anyone have any further info, or were the funny guys at Ticketmaster playing > mind games? Ticketmaster is being Ticketmaster. Apparently they didn't get any tickets in time to start selling them over the phone and online by the time they had announced on their site. On the advice of many people here, I called the Keswick directly and was able to order a ticket (but they're not cheap - $22.50+$4 handling) and I'm really glad I did - row BB, seat 109. :) - -- Lawrence Solomon * http://www.fruhead.com/users/zaph * zaph@fruhead.com "Just because you're floating doesn't mean * This space inadvertently you haven't drowned." -They Might Be Giants * left blank. ------------------------------ Date: 05 Sep 1999 22:59:52 GMT From: traugottcm@aol.com (TraugottCM) Subject: Re: i don't understand, yet again *sigh* Myla wrote: >I was just checking out www.waytogomurray.com (great site Alex, btw) but I >was wondering about this "murray's dead" thing. Maybe I missed something. >Could anyone fill me in? And Vika answered: >It was rumoured once that The Beatles >inserted a subliminal message -- >"Paul Is Dead" into one of their songs. "I >am a Walrus," I believe. >This is a spinoff of that In the late 1960s, shortly after the release of The Beatles Sgt. Pepper album, a rumor got started that Paul McCartney had died and that the Beatles had replaced him with a look alike. It's unclear whether the rumor started with fans or with some obscure DJ, but the "clues" used to back up the "Paul is dead" theory were, among other things: 1. Play "I Am the Walrus" and at the end you hear John's voice droning something that sounds like "I buried Paul." 2. In "A Day in the Life" the lines "He blew his mind out in a car. He didn't notice that the lights had changed. The people stood and stared. They'd seen his face before, but nobody was sure if he was from the House of Lords." (indicating that Paul had died in a car accident). 3. On the cover of Pepper is a flower covered grave site with a bass guitar on it. Also, a figure behind Paul has his hand raised over Paul's head, almost as if blessing him. 4. In a video shot for Pepper, Paul is the only one wearing a black carnation. 5. On the cover of Abbey Road, Paul is barefoot and out of step with the others. Also on the cover, a license plate on a VW Beetle says "28 IF," Paul's age "had he lived" to see Abbey Road made. 6. Numerous other lines in various songs, plus Paul's increased seclusion from his fans. (Can't blame him, the poor guys had been swamped with screaming fans for years and some even broke into Paul's house to steal his clothes as souvenirs). So now "Murray is dead," huh? What is it with these bass players... :-) Must check out this site sometime. chris, "yeah, I'm sort of a Beatles fan" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:01:26 -0400 From: Donna Hunt Subject: Re: OT: Grammar (was: Wood typos) Vika Zafrin wrote: > English can be SO beautiful. Fruvous, Thoreau, Shakespeare and Jim > Infantino, among others, have proved it over and over again. This line just makes me smile. It's beautiful too, Vika. :) Sadly, V, "Americans" are, in general, not interested in beauty. There's contempt for beauty in our country. It's weak. It's weak to appreciate beautiful things. What's the point of a beautiful thing? Beautiful things don't have a bottom line, they don't carry a price tag... I'm specifically talking about beautiful intangible things like sunsets and landscapes and mist and fog and poetry and music... what's that worth? The only time beautiful things are appreciate is if they can be bought and displayed in some rich folks' living room. What does this have to do with communication and grammar and typos in the liner from "Wood?" People aren't considerate of what makes good grammar, how a well put together sentence sounds; they're not preoccupied about a specific choice of verb or adjective for the same reasons: What's the point? You get what I'm tryin' to say, right? So that's good enough. On the flip side-- in the business world no one will take anyone seriously who cannot put together a grammatically correct report. But Beauty? That's beside the point. Thank you, Vika, for thinking that we should use our language beautifully. And, since I feel the need to have a disclaimer: I am speaking of "Americans" in a very large general sense, a national attitude and not specific individuals. searching for beauty, donna "Sometimes I stammer, and mix up my grammar, you get what my meanings are." --BNL, "These Apples" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:15:07 -0400 From: Donna Hunt Subject: Re: OT: More Grammar (was: Wood typos) maria wrote: > But, if someone chooses not to read my posts because they > find my thoughts less valid because I haven't learned all the grammatical > rules, then i _do_ have a problem. I find that there is a difference. I think that what Vika and others are saying (and what I'm obviously about to say) is that when posts or written communication in any form are devoid of capitalization and punctuation or misuse them atrociously, it makes that communication all but impossible to read, much less understand. If people want their point to get across, if they want people to understand it, then it's reasonable to expect those people to communicate in a clear, understandable way. That's what I'm saying. Now if people don't want their posts to be understood or read, that's another issue and a neurosis that I'm not qualified to examine--but I would have to question their need to post. :) And it's different if people are doing such things for stylistic reasons. For example, I adore ee cummings, and you can count all of the capital letters in *all* of his poetry in single digits. You can deliberately break the rules for reasons, too. And certainly, we're going to have a more relaxed communication style here. Hopefully there's enough compassion out there that people will recognize a tired, early Monday morning post, or an accidental typo, or someone on such a rush from the show they saw last night 6 hrs away and didn't go to bed before posting because the JUST HAD to tell us all something, or forgive folks for forgetting the spell check on occasion. AMMF: Comprehension and Compassion, that's my new motto. :) ciao, donna ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:56:57 GMT From: Myla Fantastik Subject: Re: www.jian.com I have also checked out www.jian.com and have also seen Zen books speaking of "the Jian" and got a quite a giggle out of that. I reccomend mentioning this interesting little tidbit to jian next time anyone talks to him! :D - -Myla ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 00:01:07 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (Ln ) Subject: Re: Wood typos I'm thankful no one here types by alternating upper and lowercase in the same word. I think that's one of those things associated with teenagers, but it bugs the hell out of me and i am a teenager. (U kNoW ThE wAy i MeAN RigHt?) Fortunately I can usually spell correctly, but a lot of people no matter how hard they try just can't spell. With all due respect (especially being a young little fruhead) isn't it a little conceited not to read someone's post because of spelling, caps, and/or grammatical errors? I'm one of the people who usually doesn't use caps or correct punctuation. (Except for ellipses and commas, I'm very fond of those. :) In my case it's not really disrespect for the reader, disrespect for the language, or lack of education. It's a pretty tenuous excuse, but it's that I just usually don't bother with it, or don't remember to. I specifically try to remember to use correct punctuation in words that can have completely different meanings. (i.e. shell/she'll, hell/he'll, shed/she'd, ill/i'll.) But sometimes I forget. (Yes, I know you're not supposed to start a sentence with and or but. :) Apologies to everyone this bothers, and I'll try harder to use correct punctuation etc. in my posts. :o) - ----------> Ln, who really does love writing, reading, English (the language and the class) and things of that nature. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:38:31 -0600 From: happygirl@fruhead.com (Dorky Spice) Subject: Re: Wood typos In article <19990905164841.00608.00003932@ng-fn1.aol.com>, luckydabed@aol.complexity says... > Maybe, I'm misunderstanding you, and if I am, please clarify what you said. > But, I don't see how having poor spelling and/or grammatical abilities has > anything to do with contempt for the reader. I find it even more disrespectful > to not even _try_ to understand what somebody is saying just because they can't > spell very well. Maria, you're not one of the offenders, I assure you of that. Let me see if I can give you an approximation of what Lori and I get upset about: so what if not all we spelling are not spelling and making typos mistakes andwhy do you care anyway and then the guys in the band and why do you not care anyway we sppellcheck i think all this about thornhill you really dont knowbut i like it think the music really good that is all my 02 cents for now talk to you later katrin I can't imitate the lack of line length setting that goes along with that sort of stream of (un)consciousness, 'cause mine is automatically set, but just imagine that the words stretch all the way across your screen, with no returns, paragraphs, punctuation or even capitalizations to give a clue as to where a thought begins or ends. THAT is the kind of thing Lori's talking about, and I agree with her. If you have something to say, it is the bare minimum of common courtesy to try to say it in a way that your audience will comprehend (or at least you *believe* they will) - even if only for the purely "selfish" reason of wanting to make sure you get your message across without misunderstanding. We *do* try to understand what these people are saying; we try our best. In the case of the one or two posters I have in mind, it's just not possible. I don't think they're stupid people. I don't know whether they have some kind of disability that prevents them from writing coherently (and even if they did, that wouldn't excuse the line length issue). A few misspellings or errors in grammar can be excused. Consistently incoherent and indecipherable posts get a little hard to tolerate. k@ - -- The Katrin(tm) (white baked epoxy enamel) Toilet Tissue dispensers are made with 22 gauge steel, which assures security and minimizes vandalism and waste. They are equipped with a slotted viewing window for a quick check at a glance. All Katrin(tm) dispensers share one universal key. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:33:12 GMT From: "Carey Farrell" Subject: Re: Thornhill = Beatles Raenfaerie wrote: >Would one of the more locquacious Thornhill people like to explain >this? >I see onhear only one Beatles-esue part of Thornhill [1], and >I "just >don't get" the supposed similarity. Besides the examples Lori gave, I also think the guitar parts in "When She Talks" sound a lot like something George Harrison would play. Carey "Nobody ever lends money to a man with a sense of humor." --Peter Tork ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 20:25:05 -0400 From: chad schrock Subject: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO ^kat^ wrote: > ok, so this is one of those pointless, read-and-delete-type posts... i'm > just so psyched to see this. it'll be interesting to see how their > video-making has evolved from, say, "down from above"... *grin* Ok, for those of us that have never seen a Früvous video, let alone DFA, why is everyone, um, down on that video? - -- chad at radix dot net Sorry, I'll be busy with organoleptic evaluations *all* day... ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 00:26:20 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (Ln ) Subject: Re: OT: Grammar (was: Wood typos) >It's weak to appreciate beautiful things. ::wry smile:: Except in the case of people, where a lot of the time a 'beautiful' person wins out over an 'ugly' one? >I'm specifically talking about beautiful intangible things like sunsets and landscapes and mist and fog and poetry and music... what's that worth? and rainbows, and blowing bubbles, and a warm breezy day, and that fuzzy feeling when you've done something really well, and colored leaves falling from trees, and hand written letters, and violets in a jelly glass, and singing with friends though none of you sing really well, and thunderstorms, and pictures of friends and family, and candlelight, and watching kids blow the fluff off dandelions or doing it yourself, and dark quiet woods, and peaceful skies of moons and stars, and being "high on life", and reminiscing, and getting or giving a handmade gift be it ever so small for no real reason, and skipping rocks on a lake, and dew on the grass or glinting from a perfectly crafted spiderweb, and good conversation, and a wonderful book, and dancing through the rain, and snowflakes falling silently on the sleeping black trees silhoutted against the grey sky, and falling asleep happily against a moonbeam shining in your window? - -----------> Ln, feeling appreciative of nearly everything right now :o) ------------------------------ Date: 06 Sep 1999 00:46:15 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: Six Degrees of Dave heh-- I love this stuff. Thanks for that, and I second the request for posting the address. I have a friend who can do this, actually. It's quite amazing to watch--name any 2 actors *ever* and she can connect them through their films. Watching her decipher the Lawrence Olivier/ Clare Danes connetion was truly a thing of beauty. ~jen (who has a Kevin Bacon number of 5, by the way.. but as she has never worked on film, counts personal relationships for the first 2 steps ;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Nobody likes you when you're 23"-- Blink 182 "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."--Rent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:25:35 GMT From: ndk107@psu.edu (Nate Kushner) Subject: Re: Six Degrees of Dave In article <19990905135234.21220.00004068@ng-cn1.aol.com>, srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) wrote: >Nate Kushner gave us his Oracular gleanings re: Dave the Universally >Connected. > >I was just wondering, could he post a URL for his source so we can play our own >reindeer games here? :) > > >Lori@fruhead.com ~^~^~^ ~~~^~ ^~^~^ ~^~ >^~^ ~^~^~^~^~ ~^~ ^~^ ^~^~^~ ^~^~ ^~^~~~ >My Strange and Wonderful World: http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html >The spiffy, newly-updated amm-f FAQ: http://www.fruvous.com/news/faq.html > No problem....Everybody go nuts. http://www.cs.virginia.edu/oracle/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:35:50 GMT From: vika@fruhead.com (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO chad schrock said: >Ok, for those of us that have never seen a Früvous video, let >alone DFA, why is everyone, um, down on that video? I wouldn't know to tell ya, chad, because I'm one of the apparently few who love it, but it's ..... *spooky*. Just spooky. Eeep. Cult-like brainwarshing. Up until I saw that video it didn't really dawn on me what it was *really* about. - -v - ----- Vika Zafrin ----- vika@fruhead.com ----- "I am writing this an hour later and there is still a small demon in my stomach scratching to get out. And it's small and green and nasty. It murdered the antacid I gave it, and laughed." -Laura Lemay, re: wasabi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 20:42:50 -0400 From: chad schrock Subject: Re: Beachfest99 Lori at fruhead dot com wrote: > chad wrote: > >Well, that's what us SueHeads were griping about at Singer/ > >Songwriter in July and the nice people at WXPN switched Susan > >Werner and some other act, so Susan got more time. > Alas, I think that had more to do with performer scheduling > glitches than the Sue-Heads. hush. I don't impose my reality on you, do I? > >That all worked out well, I think. > It did. The Duncan Sheik performance, otoh, did NOT. :( Did he miss his connnection? By then, I think that I had finally started to dry out. (I got into and promptly lost a spalh fight with a couple of young kids in one of the fountians at Penns Landing.) > >More than the brother of god jr. > DAMMIT chad-bob! Now I've had this earwormed for, oh, > about 14 hours. heh heh heh heh. - -- chad at radix dot net The RCMP is not the life for me. Oh Veronica, don't take this personally, but I have to hate you for a little while now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:22:33 -0400 From: chad schrock Subject: Re: Down From Above video (was: Re: IMPORTANT INFO Vika Zafrin wrote: > chad schrock said: > >Ok, for those of us that have never seen a Früvous video, let > >alone DFA, why is everyone, um, down on that video? > I wouldn't know to tell ya, chad, because I'm one of the apparently > few who love it, but it's ..... *spooky*. > Just spooky. Hmmm. IMO, it's one of the better, if most myterious, song on wood. > Eeep. Cult-like brainwarshing. Up until I saw that video it > didn't really dawn on me what it was *really* about. Okay, that brings up another question then, what do (global) you think that DFA about? (I'm surprised no one mentioned this during our recent round of interpretations of the songs from wood. Too bad tomorrow is a holiday; Chad won't get the opportunity to chose between an interpretation or work. :) - -- chad at radix dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:15:24 -0400 From: chad schrock Subject: Re: Southern Cal shows cookie wrote: > chad schrock wrote: > > cookie wrote: > > > > Well, the Roxy was MF's kind of crowd because there was a fairly > > good turn out of non-local Früheads. Do you think the power will > > stay on for the whole show this time? :) > I figure an earthquake will hit just after the opener this time, and > we'll all surf to Hawaii on the resultant tsunami. Coolness! I've never been to Hawai'i! Although, the power outage was kind of cool. In the "has this really happened" sort of way. The guys handled it with a lot of style. Almost like it was a regular occurance or something. > > > Again, I'm only speculating. > > It's a lot more fun than spreading the truth. :) > I did mention that I'm a 5'11" lingerie model who jets to the > South of France twice a month, has four secretaries just to > keep track of my social engagements, and volunteers 500 hours > a year for the Bisexual Scientologist Coal Miners for Canary > Rights Coalition, didn't I? Well, since we're talking about what we do when not FrüTripping [1], I am a 6'2" model for Calvin Klein (on the billboard in Times Sq, no less), I think the South of France is *so* last week, I have a personal staff to take care of all of my arrangements, and I volunteer almost 1000 hours a day for several organizations for the benefit of those not fortunate enough to have good fashion sense. > Cookie > (Who believes the last sentence doesn't require a smiley.) Ditto. (I feel like I should have been on 'AbFab.') - -- chad at radix dot net [1] is anyone else, um, disturbed by the multiple connotations of that word? Well, not really disturbed, but you know what I mean. ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #788 ********************************************