From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #745 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, August 25 1999 Volume 03 : Number 745 Today's Subjects: ----------------- UK fan (Richard C): looking for lift to Ajax! [msavo@aol.com (MSavo)] WXPN ["Lindsay Lion" ] Re: New Frudegreen [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com)] Re: DIRECTIONS TO HARBOURFRONT [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead] Re: OT: DC area navigation [srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot] Re: Finally! :) - Thornhill Review [Chad Maloney ] Yet another Canadian Thornhill Review (Huge) [Josh Drury ] Re: First Impressions - Thornhill Review (probably long) ["Winnie da Fru ] Re: First Impressions - Thornhill Review (probably long) [Veronica J Grun] Re: album/song correlations [sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26)] Re: mix99.9 show [CLeast18@aol.com] Re: Got It! [serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman)] who played what on Thornhill [Frank Mattheus ] Re: First Impressions - Thornhill Review (probably long) [sugarfly26@aol.] Frvous is everywhere... [McCown ] Re: Independence Day Question [trace@fruhead.com (Trace)] Re: Independence Day Question [vika@fruhead.com (Vika Zafrin)] Re: Independence Day Question [Joe Navratil ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Aug 1999 16:27:14 GMT From: msavo@aol.com (MSavo) Subject: UK fan (Richard C): looking for lift to Ajax! Hi all, it's the new UK fan Richard Chaplin here!. I'm now in Canada and am looking forward to the Harbourfront show tomorrow night! If anyone could help me out with a lift back to Ajax (or nearabouts) after the show I would be eternally greatful (of course I will cover all expenses). (PS..anyone any idea when the show is due to finish). Thank you to everyone who has welcomed me into the world of MF and I hope to meet some of you tomorrow ( look out for the burgundy Beatles T shirt!) cheers Richard Chaplin (Chappo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:50:37 -0500 From: "Lindsay Lion" Subject: WXPN Well, it won't be in effect for the Moxy broadcast, but I have on good authority that WXPN will be broadcasting on the internet in about 2 months! I'll keep you all posted! - -- - --- Lindsay Lion Manager of Operations & Technology Biosyn, Inc. llion@biosyn-inc.com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 1999 16:41:07 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: New Frudegreen Bender said: >YCBTC: "Or maybe you'd be better off dead" Ditto on this one -- thought these were the words until I got Thornhill, in fact, and always delighted in this EXCEPTIONALLY snarky juxtaposition of options. :) - -- Lori ******************* I mean ... if you're going to be degenerate, you might as well be a lady about it, don't you think? ~~ Armistead Maupin ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 1999 16:46:13 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: DIRECTIONS TO HARBOURFRONT After building a sterling reputation as Helpful TO Host, Brent the Evil shows his true colours at last. He really *does* want all the Americans to get lost: >Anyway, folks, here's a useful link for you: an actual, >honest-to-goodness MAP! There's two ways to get it: go to Mapquest, at >http://www.mapquest.com and map out: > > 235 Queens Quay W > Toronto, ON, Canada Mapquest's inventive directions generally amuse me -- but then again, I try not to take them seriously, because I *know* they're wildly misleading. I'd much rather take my chances with chad's -- he gets me to the right town at least. :) All of you Harbourfronters -- have a great time! Wish I could be there ... but I can't ... *sniffle* ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 1999 16:57:29 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) Subject: Re: OT: DC area navigation Veronica said: >WOOHOO!! It's not just my poor little Canadian brain brought up on roads >that go in straight lines with different names that doesn't understand how >you can have three roads through the same area all with the same name! Not quite the same, but the various 95s in NJ used to drive me nuts (I know, it's not far ... 'specially in the car) before they streamlined the system by putting in a few extra ramps. It wasn't hard until you got tangled up, really, but then the conversations between driver (eyes on road) and passenger (eyes on interstate signage) went something like this: Driver: How do I get to ninety-five south? Passenger : um, exit HERE, then immediately exit again, to two ninety-five north to ninety-five south. - -- Lori, likes that Philly's beltway on the PA side has NO 95's. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:23:54 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Finally! :) - Thornhill Review drea1@my-deja.com wrote: > Splatter: The narrative/action sound to this song makes it sound like > an old radio play in some ways. Did the last verse change or am I > finally hearing the lyrics right? "We came from monkeys"? (or did I do a > frudegreen?) That's always been the lyric I believe. The only change I know of in Splatter Splatter lyrics is "He's on a cell phone calling from the porch out back" -> "He's got a present for her from her daddy's shack". I like the new lyric better because it adds more to the song. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:23:49 -0500 From: Josh Drury Subject: Yet another Canadian Thornhill Review (Huge) Well, here it is, two weeks after the momentous U.S. release, I finally have the album. You can skip the prelude if you want, it just sets up the review a bit. Prelude: I got off work at 5:00 pm and was raring to go. I had arranged previously for my girlfriend to pick me up at work to go straight to the mall to do some quick comparative shopping and head home with our new CDs. Unfortunately, my girlfriend was also interested in *shopping*, eager to take advantage of the demise of that great Canadian institution, Eaton’s [1]. I checked around for the best price, and found the prices ranging from $16.94 to a whopping $23.99, at a store with one copy. So, over to MusiPlex for the best deal in the area. I went in, raced to the new releases section, grabbed two copies, and headed over to the checkout counter. A catchy song was playing in the store as I punched in my PIN. I realized it was “Losing California”, the new single from Sloan (whose new album is due out on Sept. 21, in both the U.S. and Canada). I walked out of the store, humming along, got in the car and drove back to my girlfriend’s place. Thornhill was finally in my possession. But now I wanted the new Sloan album, too. Go figure. Putting the CD in the player as soon as we got there, we were treated to the opening chords of “Half as Much”. And so the review begins… HALF AS MUCH Wow! Catchy number, very upbeat and vocally intricate. A solid rocker, IMO could have easily been the first single. My only complaint would be that it’s short, but so often the fun, upbeat songs are. SAD GIRL The Beatles, you say? Yes, I’m inclined to agree with you there. Sounds very John Lennon circa 1968. The piano, weird chords, witty lyrics, and bass and drumming style all point towards the Fab Four, especially John. But, nothing wrong with the Beatles, and nothing wrong with this song. Good social commentary, too. A keeper. YOU CAN’T BE TOO CAREFUL A good song, but not the best on the album. Lyrics are great as they are in most of the album, but it’s not too adventurous musically. Still, great to sing along to. I WILL HOLD ON *Swoon*… Sorry, I had to do it. Well, I was impressed with this song. I don’t like sappy love songs, but this one did not take the easy way out lyrically or musically, and it kept momentum admirably, so I have to give it full marks. And of course, it made my girlfriend melt. That wasn’t too difficult, though, she’s a big Jihead. I can approve of this as a first single, though normally I’d say stay away from the slower songs at first and go with an upbeat number. EARTHQUAKES Dave keeps it wacky with this fine piece, accentuated with that weird, almost Waitsian instrumentation. Lots of quotable lines in this one, I noticed Drea has already taken one for her .sig. How can anyone say this album is too serious? WHEN SHE TALKS If the album has a weak point, in my view it would be this song. Lyrics are fine as usual, but it sounds so nondescript I might not even notice it if I was surfing radio stations. If you think the album is overproduced, on this one I’m inclined to agree. Almost sounds like Phil Collins. SPLATTER SPLATTER Great song! The lyrics are hilarious… I believe the appropriate Simpsons quote would be “It’s funny because it’s true.” Musically it’s bound to recall Video Bargainville, especially with the dark sound and distorted spoken lead vocal. Also, I am reminded of Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet, for the music as much as the “shadowy motives” line. This could be a great follow up single. Coming soon to an unsuspecting horror movie audience near you? We can only hope. INDEPENDENCE DAY Beautiful. The decidedly minimalist and lonely verse gives way to jaw-dropping harmony in the chorus. The story of the song is a bittersweet masterpiece. May I coin a new phrase by saying “Way to go, Murray!” (What? It’s been said before?) DOWNSIZING Another great song with real meaning. Yes, it’s long, but so what? Whoever said its length alone was a comment on the drawn-out painful process of waiting and trying to rebuild has it dead on. I also like the alternating weak solo vocals followed by thundering harmonies, possibly an allusion to the power in numbers philosophy, and more specifically to labour unions. This might be a stretch, but I think it’s an interesting concept. HATE LETTER Not at all what I expected from the title. The first time I listened to this song, there was a bit too much background noise to make out the lyrics, but it sounded suspiciously happy, and I knew Dave had something up his sleeve. Listening to it for the second time, this time with headphones, I caught all the words, and it was *hilarious*. The song is the antithesis of Independence Day. The idea of pure bliss and indifference to a relationship is in many ways far more scathing than any hate letter could be. I love the vocals in the interlude, too, even if they are goofy. Plus, that “Goin’ to Murray’s/ Goin’ to Mike’s/ Goin’ to Jian’s/ Ridin’ on bikes” provides a definitive pronounciation of Jian’s name. This song is an early favourite of mine. IF YOU ONLY KNEW A happy little love song. Reminds me in the concept (though not necessarily the form) of such classics as the Beatle’s “I Will”. No complaints on this one. MY POOR GENERATION This is a potential classic. Yet another song that uses (to great effect) amazing harmonies on the chorus. Brilliant all around. My only comlaint: yup, that damn percussion. But I can’t block it out (and no, I don’t want to just turn the balance away from it), so I’ll just get used to it. Looking forward to hearing it live. BONUS TRACK ON CANADIAN RELEASE ONLY Not gonna happen. Wishful thinking on my part. [2] MISCELANEOUS COMMENTS Great album overall. A few weak points I’ve mentioned, but surprisingly solid on the whole. I don’t find it too heavy, and the goofier songs seem to fit in just fine. My favourite album? Time will tell. Inter-song banter: I didn’t mind it at all. The album could do without it with no major ill effects, but it makes it a bit more personable. Lack of lyrics: I didn’t miss them that much on YWGTTM, but at least there were instrument and vocal credits. I’d like to know what some of those strange noises were. Album design: Looks great. That chocolately-brown colour fits the album perfectly. A few minor difference with the American version, like a tiny “Canadian heritage” symbol on the inside of the liner notes, and the good ol’ Canadian Content MAPL (music, artist, production, lyrics) symbol on the back assuring us that it’s more than fit for Canadian radio play. And any liner notes that thank the Tragically Hip are good in my book. Again, overall I’m quite happy with it. It’s grown on me very quickly, and is sure to gain regular play on my CD player. C album should be a great complement to it. Josh Drury Winnipeg [1] For any of you who may not know, Eaton's has been struggling for about a year now and finally announced they were closing all their stores some time in the near future. Also, I thought I'd point out that E, A, T, O, N, and S are the most common six letters in the English language, in that order. [2] For the record, I *like* Organ Grinder. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:53:07 -0700 From: timiny Subject: Re: First Impressions - Thornhill Review (probably long) Hi Sara, 2 comments: If you want the lyrics but you don't want to read them off the computer, just print them out and you'll have them right in front of you to follow along. Also, you mentioned that the first single should not be a love song like IWHO, but think how many love songs have been singles since singles have been around. Millions! I don't know if choosing a single should mainly be based on whether it's a more rockin' song and not a love song. - -Matt * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:59:07 GMT From: Groovy Spice Subject: Re: New Frudegreen In article <19990825124107.08431.00003600@ng-cn1.aol.com>, srm9988n@aol.comicrelief (Lori at fruhead dot com) wrote: > >YCBTC: "Or maybe you'd be better off dead" > > Ditto on this one -- thought these were the words until I got > Thornhill, in fact, and always delighted in this EXCEPTIONALLY snarky > juxtaposition of options. :) and possibly the reference to the exceptionally funny-n-snarky movie that bears that name. ;) peace, ellen ("TWO DOLLARS!") *************************************************** Once there was a way to get back home... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:37:05 GMT From: "Winnie da Fru aka Sara" Subject: Re: First Impressions - Thornhill Review (probably long) >If you want the lyrics but you don't want to read them off >the computer, just print them out and you'll have them right >in front of you to follow along. Tried that - but I'm cheap when it comes to paper. In Netscape, it's about 19 pages. Cut and pasted into word - turned out to be 29! I've been editing it down (changed font, cut out spaces, etc) and I'm down to about 15 and halfway through. I'm working on it though. :) >Also, you mentioned that the first single should not be a >love song like IWHO, but think how many love songs have been >singles since singles have been around. Millions! I don't >know if choosing a single should mainly be based on whether >it's a more rockin' song and not a love song. My problem wasn't that it was a love song. I don't know what it is that makes me not like it as a single (not to say I don't like the song, I love it!), it's something to do with the sound of it - maybe because it's more acoustical than most love songs (slow songs tend towards piano, which is maybe why I generally don't like them!). I've nothing against love songs, so maybe I expressed my self wrong. I just don't think it *feels* like a radio song to me (which isn't neccessarily a bad thing either, except that they want exposure, so then it would be). I don't really know what I'm saying...random blaterings that aren't expressed well. On the otherhand, I would have to say that IWHO is completly the otherhand of the spectrum from BNL's "One Week" (as is Thornhill from Stunt), so maybe those comparions can finally end, and Fruvous can be recognized for who they are! :) Sara ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 1999 18:41:31 GMT From: Veronica J Gruneberg <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: First Impressions - Thornhill Review (probably long) Josh said: >[1] For any of you who may not know, Eaton's has been struggling for >about a year now and finally announced they were closing all their stores >some time in the near future. Yeah, they sure are, thus leaving my mother and my sister unemployed. Not a huge deal for my sister, because she's going to university in 2 weeks, but my mum has worked there for about 6 years now! Plus, where am I going to get really great (and cheap!) shoes now?! Not to mention that Eaton's is a Canadian staple. A landmark. Important. Almost as old as Canada (they've been around about 130 years now...) This sucks! Oh yeah, Thornhill? Me likey... - -- *************************************************************************** "Never look at the trombones, | Veronica Gruneberg it only encourages them." | Dept. of Biology - Richard Strauss | Queen's University | Kingston, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 1999 19:17:55 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26) Subject: Re: album/song correlations >thought it was too much of a straight rock song, when i was playing thornhill for my friend who's a fruhead she commented at one point that they sounded more like a run of the mill band. i asked her what she meant exactly and she said that there was more guitar and 'typical' instruments than in a lot of their other songs, less a cappella, and not quite as much variety. well that was kinda pertinent. - -----------> Ln ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:41:04 GMT From: CLeast18@aol.com Subject: Re: mix99.9 show i missed it too....if anyone has a tape can i ahve a copy too ? ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 1999 19:45:31 GMT From: serra44@aol.com (Jill Friedman) Subject: Re: Got It! << Sadly, I can't listen to it from work, but I can stare at the pictures...and they are nice picture>> Muahahah! Indeed they are! Especially the ones of Jian.... Dammit, I keep forgetting he reads this board! I'm not a psycho, really... Anyway, Thornhill...need to give it another listen or five, then I'll have an opinion on it. - -J writing a song called the Ballad of Jill V. Fruhead Member of the Jian fan club Owner of 5 of the MF albums and all of Ani DiFranco's "She's too short to play me."-Joey Potter Too short to play herself in a movie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:37:04 -0400 From: Frank Mattheus Subject: who played what on Thornhill I noticed in the liner notes for Thornhill they don't say who played which instruments. I get a crack at seeing how many instruments they use in their albums and was wondering if anyone has this information. It is also missing on "b", and "Live Noise", but I can understand that seeing as neither were full studio albums. Frank Mattheus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:42:58 GMT From: "Winnie da Fru aka Sara" Subject: Independence Day Question "(Murray, w/ others) Geneveive, I do believe I can't go on this way (All) Now I know what freedom is on Independence Day." Anyone have any thoughts on what this means? Is it yet another song about a breakup? Given the lines: "I stuck my hand into my coat Felt the letter that you wrote. I said "This is Independence Day. I wonder how I'll celebrate?"" It just seems like the Geneveive line is oddly stuck in there at the end, since a name is never mentioned before. You get to the end of the song, and have to back up and go, huh? Who was that? I wasn't paying much attention just listening to the lines about the children and all, and then had to back up and listen again (maybe that's the point). Guess there's the pun on independence day. Ya, maybe that does sum it up. Anybody else got thoughts on it? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:48:50 -0700 From: timiny Subject: Re: album/song correlations >>thought it was too much of a straight rock song, >> >when i was playing thornhill for my friend who's a fruhead >she commented at one point that they sounded more like a >run of the mill band. i asked her what she meant exactly >and she said that there was more guitar and 'typical' >instruments than in a lot of their other songs, less a >cappella, and not quite as much variety. > I didn't mean to imply that they had to use weird and varied instruments (or fewer instruments) to sound good or even to sound less 'straight rock', I mean that their *instrumentation* seemed to improve on that song. You could create a song just using guitar, bass, and drums and then later re-work that song with the same instruments and it could sound a million times better. I can understand when someone is looking for a particular instrument in a song, or they're looking to just hear a cappella sounds, but to make a blanket statement that all music that uses the typical guitar, bass, and drums stinks is a bit far fetched. You definitely have to give the music and the lyrics a good listen or two. Unfortunately, not everyone has the time or patience to do that and I know I've done that in the past with certain music that I might have enjoyed. - -Matt * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 1999 19:39:09 GMT From: sugarfly26@aol.com (SugarFly26) Subject: Re: First Impressions - Thornhill Review (probably long) >My first reaction - WOW! I love this CD! I don't know what it is about it >- it's very different from their other CD's, but different in a good way i love it and i hate it for its difference. all the songs are great. but most of them are kinda acoustic and mellow (cant think of better words to use) and a few border on being like country music. which is all stuff that can easily depress me if i let myself think about past stuff. and then the lyrics just fit so well and its great and not so good for me personally. mostly i love it cuz i dont get depressed that much. >I love the design of the album as well - terrific pictures i bought thornhill and pulled out the cover thing hoping for lyrics, saw the picture on the back and cracked up. (no, not being mean to the guys, its a good pic!!) it just caught me off guard cuz in that picture, theres something about murray (wow, thats cheesy...i didnt mean that to be a dumb pun, but now i have to leave it) that reminds me exactly of this really weird cool friend of my english teacher. i showed it to my friend and she said you know who murray looks like there? and i was like yep! how long has jian had highlights in his hair? am i really clueless here? they look good though at least. , and I like how >the different styles of photos are used for the lads, showing their >diversity. Any comments about what the different styles show about each >guy? Just a thought. my comment is merely i like it. i like seeing them individually and as a band. >hearing Jian sing it that really moved me. jians singing (in slower songs) always gets to me..its so..something. emotional? actually i sometimes get choky when any of the guys sing particular songs. all the guys have great voices. hmm, this is longer than i planned.. - -----------> Ln, stopping now :o) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:36:41 GMT From: McCown Subject: Frvous is everywhere... i just remembered this this morning, but it wasn't *that* long ago, so i thought i'd mention it. i went to see the nields on sunday in king of prussia (susan werner's going to be there on september 5th! :)), and *besides* seeing joni (hi! :)) and having a conversation about früvous with the merch lady, and seeing at least three früvous shirts (*not* including my jersey and joni's tank top), katryna said something along the lines of "you can't interrupt dave hower when he's counting off a song, becuase his insides explode and it's really gross..splatter splatter!" a few cheers here and there, and then katryna said, "i love being in the in-crowd!" so do i ;) anyhow, just some random info on this wednesday afternoon... love lizzie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:06:30 GMT From: trace@fruhead.com (Trace) Subject: Re: Independence Day Question On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:42:58 GMT, "Winnie da Fru aka Sara" wrote: >"(Murray, w/ others) Geneveive, I do believe I can't go on this way >(All) Now I know what freedom is on Independence Day." > >Anyone have any thoughts on what this means? Is it yet another song about a >breakup? Given the lines: It sounds to me like a breakup song. The juxtaposition of people all around and the narrator all alone. The relative stasis of the narrator compared to the stormy feelings represented in the weather. The negative connotation of the word "freedom" from the above quoted lines, and the sense of loss and the feeling of being cast adrift inherent in the children letting go their balloons. All of the imagery seem to point to a relationship breakup to me. - -- Trace trace@fruhead.com AMM-F: You must be this insane to ride ----- - -Veronica J Gruneberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:09:38 GMT From: vika@fruhead.com (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Independence Day Question "Winnie da Fru aka Sara" asked: >"(Murray, w/ others) Geneveive, I do believe I can't go on this way >(All) Now I know what freedom is on Independence Day." > >Anyone have any thoughts on what this means? Is it yet another song about a >breakup? Not necessarily a breakup, but a relationship (be it a love affair or a friendship or what have you), I'd think. You aptly quoted: >"I stuck my hand into my coat >Felt the letter that you wrote. >I said "This is Independence Day. >I wonder how I'll celebrate?"" That tells me that the narrator is finally free from being "hung up" on a person. He doesn't have to have been in love, but there must be something that was there before, isn't there now, and that he hasn't been able to let go of. The first quote above tells me that he's only letting go because he "can't go on this way." Now he knows what freedom is, but he isn't saying that he likes it. Or that he doesn't like it. All he's saying is that he's now free from whatever it is that's been weighing him down. Why the melancholy, then? Well, from personal experience I know that as much as I've sometimes wished to get rid of a [virtual] weight on my shoulders, when that does happen, sometimes there's an almost unbearable emptiness inside. It's a blessing and a curse. >It just seems like the Geneveive line is oddly stuck in there at the end, >since a name is never mentioned before. For rhyme, maybe? I haven't heard the name Genevieve used in writing since Antoine de Saint-Exupery.[1] Don't remember which novel, it was one of his aviation-related ones. - -v, hoping the above made some sense [1] He wrote _The Little Prince_. He was also a pilot, and for a long time flew dangerously small air mail planes all over the place. He survived being stranded in a desert for two weeks, and another time he survived the Alps in the winter. His writing is amazing. Vika Zafrin, vika at ibm dot net "Great, I'm a landmark now." -FatherO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:26:36 +0000 From: Joe Navratil Subject: Re: Independence Day Question > Anyone have any thoughts on what this means? Is it yet another song about a > breakup? Given the lines: Oh, I think it's obviously a song about a breakup. Let's look at the lyrics :-) "The streamers were red and gold. And all of the stores stayed closed. And everybody couldn't wait For the fireworks display." Okay, this is mostly an image-based deconstruction so feel free to disagree with me, or even just dismiss me as having taking this too far :-) (I agree, that's why I do stuff like this for fun). That being said: This initial verse sets everything up. The relationship came quietly to an end, with obviously a lot of hurt feelings on both sides. Both sides "stayed closed" in anticipation of a big fight, the "fireworks display". "The city had a hot dog stand and lovers walked hand in hand. And me standing there alone Except for the clowns I suppose." I'm at a loss for the first line. The rest is easy, when you look at in a failed-relationship light: "Lovers walked hand in hand," but not the narrator. He was "alone", and apparently either felt that he was made to look bad at the end, or feels residual guilt about the end. Thus, he groups himself with the "clowns" instead of the "lovers". Plus, everyone digs the whole "tragic clown" juxtaposition. "And the people came around on Independence Day And the children let go their balloons and flew away." It's supposed to be a celebration, a party, but everything's backwards. The children are flying away instead of the balloons. This can also be interpreted (slightly Freudian?) as the narrator's dreams for a family going up in smoke. "Then the wind swung around to the east And the rain came down in sheets. I saw trees bending to the ground And people running all around." Here comes the storm -- we were expecting fireworks, and we got instead a downpour. Tears via the rain; Sorrow via the "trees bending to the ground"; and confusion via the "people running all around". "I stuck my hand into my coat Felt the letter that you wrote. I said 'This is Independence Day. I wonder how I'll celebrate?'" Apparently, the narrator had been expecting all of this -- why else would you wear a coat in mid-July, except as a shield? And finally is the realization that the narrator is a free man (or woman, but I use man since a man's singing) -- and that's not even close to what he actually wanted. Also notable is the fact that the relationship didn't even get a chance to end face-to-face -- he was told off with a "Dear John." "Red and gold (red and gold...) bleed down to black. Once it's gone (once it's gone), it won't come back." It's well and truly over. Another way of looking at these lines are through dream-analyses: Red can stand for either life or death because of its link to blood; gold is a symbol of stability in one form, and great loss in another; and black is, well, black is all sorts of things along the uncertainty-loss-death lines. "Geneveive, I do believe I can't go on this way Now I know what freedom is on Independence Day." The choice of Genevieve is probably just because it rhymes well, but if you're willing to take this well past way-too-far, you can make the connection to Guinevere (see, told ya!) via the modern version of both, Jennifer. I started exploring that with the narrator as either Arthur or Lancelot, as far as the troubled-relationship metaphor went, and found that both worked about as well :-) And finally: freedom, in the narrator's eyes, is a curse that was gained at the cost of the relationship. HTH. YMMV. -Joe ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #745 ********************************************