From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #611 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Tuesday, July 20 1999 Volume 03 : Number 611 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Setlist Ponderings (was King>>Green, with more thoughts added) [ebwag] Re: Setlist Ponderings (was King>>Green, with more thoughts added) [China] Re: Totally Not Anything to do with Moxy [Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlin] more on the irony faerie ["Tim Deegan" ] Re: Reviving the great debate (babble!) ["KatieWow" ] Re: Solo Songs [vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: Setlist Ponderings [dopeytoo ] Help Please - Rochester [mroats@aol.com (Mr Oats)] Re: OH NO!!!!! fruvous on WPST (97.5)? [mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie)] Re: fruvous on WPST (97.5)? [mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie)] Re: Solo Songs [Donna Hunt ] Re: Setlist Ponderings (was King>>Green, with more thoughts added) [Swoop] Re: "bla" songs (was Re: Setlist Ponderings) [katrin@dimensional.com (Kat] Re: OT: GBS Turn (was:Re: mom's "these guys" comments) ["Cameron Ross" ] CustomDisc? (was Re: Solo Songs) [Joe Navratil ] Various On-Topic Comments [Angie ] Re: mom's "these guys" comments [Raenfaerie@aol.com] Re: OT: Jobless bum [CheesemonkeyGem ] Re: Totally Not Anything to do with Moxy [katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:56:09 GMT From: ebwagner@mailbox.syr.edu (Eilis The Great) Subject: Re: Setlist Ponderings (was King>>Green, with more thoughts added) >>But, what about the Fruheads... those who see a show on average of once a week (or so it seems)? Why do you see Fruvous? Is it for the variety of music? If it is, maybe see them less often so that variety is still fresh -- so you aren't seeing the same songs over & over again.<< I'm in love with and fascinated by *everything* that fruvous does. Sure, there are some songs that I like a smidge more than others, but it was when I started listening to every song on all of their cd's that I realized that I was a true fan. And, like someone said, Moxy doesn't play for us....they play for themselves and for their careers. Sure we've heard King of Spain at almost every show, but isn't that what it's all about? An "oldie but goodie" sort of thing? I don't think that we can really say or judge what the guys think of the song or playing it. All we can do is support them by listening to their killer music and jamming out until are smiling so much it's pathetic. >>Remember, for each show you stay home, someone else can buy the ticket you would have bought & see the band for the first time or the first time in a while.<< I agree to a certain degree here. If you're truly tired of hearing KOS and other such goodies, take a time out or whatever. (though I'm sure no one feels *that* strongly about it) But, at the same time, there's nothing like being in/watching a crowd of mostly-frulovers go nuts over a song like King of Spain. I have a crowd shot on video of Saturday night's FruCon2 show...and it's so awesome to watch everyone shout "one, two, three, four!!!!" and then start jamming out. It's one of the coolest things I've ever seen/experienced. So, there's my comments. Eilis "she loves attention....she CRAVES attention" ~Moxy Fruvous http://web.syr.edu/~ebwagner *a little slice of heaven* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:28:25 GMT From: ChinaCat Subject: Re: Setlist Ponderings (was King>>Green, with more thoughts added) In article <7n210f$taa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Jacey7@aol.com wrote: > Amen. This I agree with. If you've heard a song too many times, and > think they should retire it, maybe you should just skip a show. The set > list isn't for *us* specifially, it's for the whole crowd. And people > like KOS. As long as the band still enjoys it as well, I think it's > unfair for people to insinuate they should stop playing it just because > you've heard it a few too many times for your liking. indeed. *i* like k'o's. what i don't like is hearing it sung with no enthusiasm and no freshness to it. i think it's perfectly fair to insinuate that they should lay off it for a while if they can't put their hearts into it. and i wouldn't be saying that if i *hadn't* seen cases where their hearts obviously weren't in it. i'm with you on the part about skipping a show if you're getting jaded. however, i don't think that averaging a show a month is too many to see and still expect some diversity. > >>Remember, for each show you stay home, someone else can buy the > ticket you would have bought & see the band for the first time or the > first time in a while.<< > > This was actually my thought way back when the whole Troc debacle went > down. Playing multiple nights at the TLA is *not* the same as playing > one sold-out show at the Troc, because garunteed the TLA crowd will > have many repeat customers (myself most likely included-- I'm not > absolved of guilt here), and therefore less people would get to see > them. and i don't see why that's guilt of anything. if you're interested enough to go both nights and you want to bust your butt to get tickets for both nights, then go for it. it's just as right for you to be there as anyone who hasn't seen the band in a while or has never seen the band. and there's no reason you should miss a show you can go to and WANT to go to for the sake of people who were not on the ball enough to get their own tix before they sold out. come on, folks... suppose a big radio hit comes off Thornhill and the next time fruvous plays your town, their show sells out instantly. you know about the show before most of the people who only know that one radio hit-- do you dally over getting tickets, thinking, "oh well, if i don't get tix, someone new will get to see them instead.."? no, of course you don't. and there's nothing unfair about it. people always wonder why deadheads followed the dead around and went to so many shows when, towards the end, they didn't always sound that good. well, here's why, and it relates to why i'd go see fruvous anytime my little heart (and finances) allowed: because not every moment has to be perfect to make it worthwhile. when the dead were off, the show was mediocre. but when they were on, it was magic. seeing 3 so-so shows was all made worthwhile when, on the 4th night, the show was transcendent. so i'll listen to (and enjoy, though i'd prefer something fresher) as many k'o's as fruvous wants to play, because i know that eventually they're going to break out something i haven't heard in a while, and it's going to make me grin from ear to ear. and when i get to the point where i'm sighing over the setlist choices over and over, i'll know it's time to stay home for a while. peace, ellen *************************************************** You could laugh and cry in a single sound... Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 1999 16:29:24 GMT From: Gruneberg Veronica J <6vjg@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: Totally Not Anything to do with Moxy I've just discovered Minette Walters, a British mystery writer. Amazing. Stayed up really, really later when I was really, really tired to try to finish the book. As a result, I was really, really cranky the next day. I'm not sure you'll be able to get her in the US, but it's worth a try! :) Veronica (wishes she were home reading right now...) - -- *************************************************************************** "Never look at the trombones, | Veronica Gruneberg it only encourages them." | Dept. of Biology - Richard Strauss | Queen's University | Kingston, Ontario | ICQ#: 38114574 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:07:43 -0400 From: "Tim Deegan" Subject: more on the irony faerie i was watching jay leno last night (one of my rare late-nite treats; i next to never get to stay up late anymore! damn manhattan bagel!), and during his monologue at the beginning of the show, jay said smething about how researchers at cornell university found that fat women are better in bed. the audience didn't clap. *g* the irony faerie is at work again, huh? oh well...byebye! Maggie ***attention***new***quote***for***Maggie*** if anybody wants to e-mail me, please send it to FruGalMag@hotmail.com b/c it's my own; i don't have my own e-mail otherwise...thanks bunches!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:59:21 -0400 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Reviving the great debate (babble!) >I swear, if he introduces IWHO that way again, I'll scream! ;-) Every >time I hear him say that, even though I *KNOW* it's not the case, I >get all excited that I'm about to hear Bittersweet. Then my hopes are >dashed when I have to hear that silly song [1] IWHO. speaking of jian intros . . . i know that many of you have seen the south park movie. did the way satan talked to saddam during the scene where saddam was packing for the world takeover remind you of anything? the 'fly' intro, perhaps? mc, kath, mike wood and i all nearly spit out our (free!) popcorn :). ~~kate - -- Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu katiewow@frumail.org **************************************************** "You're not going to Canada unless that room's clean!" - --My Dad, 6.27.99 **************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:10:43 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Solo Songs Josh Woodward delighted us with: >Speaking of which, you know what I'd love to see someday? A pseudo-album, >a little like a full-length B Album, which features just solo songs from >the guys. Oh, you tempt, Josh. That would be amazing. >But of course! His new songs are totally rockin' and loose. :) The only >thing I'm let down by is the fact that Murray songs are vanishing! I think >I'm just bitter that Grudge didn't see the light of day. I personally >think it was about the strongest new track. Ahwell, I-Day kicks butt. :) YES! And so does Too Careful. Musically, these two are my favorite from the new stuff. They are both unusual (chord-progression-wise, at least to this untrained ear) and intricate, and they expand the Fruvous musical horison, in my eyes. Mmmmm. solos. Vika Zafrin, vika at ibm dot net "What happened to the times when you knew everything [tour-dates-related] by heart?" - "I got a life." -from a conversation with a webmaster ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:35:05 -0400 From: dopeytoo Subject: Re: Setlist Ponderings ChinaCat wrote: > my point is what they restock regularly. barnes and noble is actually only supposed to carry bargainville (and soon, thornhill)... they're the only 2 that will be reordered if someone buys them... unless, of course, an employee special orders them under a phantom name.... ;) - ---karen (...our MF shelf is always fully stocked...) ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 1999 20:13:42 GMT From: mroats@aol.com (Mr Oats) Subject: Help Please - Rochester I tryied to buy tickets to the Rochester show yesterday and to my great dissapointment, I was told thay are all sold out. Does ANYONE have tickets for sale? E-mail me please. mroats@aol.com Thank you, Mr Oats Mr Oats mroats@tmbg.org ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 1999 21:21:54 GMT From: mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie) Subject: Re: OH NO!!!!! fruvous on WPST (97.5)? 106.3. Now you're talking. I know I posted this before, but I already heard Fruvous on there. "Independace Day." on Independance day. Ya think? - -mocks ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 1999 21:20:20 GMT From: mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie) Subject: Re: fruvous on WPST (97.5)? I don't know about you guys, but *my* heart would certainly sink and my stomach get a might queasy if I heard this... "And after the break on WPST 97.5- Britney Spears, Ricky Martin, N*Sync, and Moxy Fruvous!" IMHO, I think that we should keep Fruvous to WXPN and the like. I am in central jersey about 20 minutes out of the XPN range... and I deal. Pop in a CD!!! I just don't want Fruvous to be subjected to the BNL syndrome. C'mon, be honest... BNL totally SOLD OUT... Stunt is just that (to me, don't freak out at me)- a Stunt, a joke, to conform and gain popularity... something i do not think the lads are shooting for. - -Mocks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:34:38 -0700 From: Donna Hunt Subject: Re: Solo Songs Josh Woodward wrote: > Speaking of which, you know what I'd love to see someday? A pseudo-album, > a little like a full-length B Album, which features just solo songs from > the guys. Yes! When people were joking about the "C" Album, I thought that this is just the ticket. Perhaps a little too "White Album"... but what the heck? > I think I'm just bitter that Grudge didn't see the light of day. :) Exactly. This was my "bitch of the week" actually. :) > Ahwell, I-Day kicks butt. :) > And we can only hope that they'll actually still perform it *after* Thornhill comes out! Not to take away from Dave's My Poor Generation. Incredible. I didn't think this one was going to become an offical "Fruvous" song either... but I think the guys are letting themselves do "solo" songs more--just not to the extent of "Follow the Road," I guess. ciao, donna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:07:10 GMT From: Swoop-Dot-Loop Subject: Re: Setlist Ponderings (was King>>Green, with more thoughts added) In article , ebwagner@mailbox.syr.edu (Eilis The Great) wrote: > (Somebody else, Amy B., I think) > >>But, what about the Fruheads... those who see a show on average of > once a week (or so it seems)? Why do you see Fruvous? Is it for the > variety of music? If it is, maybe see them less often so that variety > is still fresh -- so you aren't seeing the same songs over & over > again.<< More than anything, I go for the energy. And you never know what interesting thing they're going to throw in, that's why I go. I enjoy seeing new songs develop over time, that's why I go. > And, like someone said, Moxy doesn't play for us....they > play for themselves and for their careers. Without us, where's the career? Not just us meaning online Fruheads, I mean fans. The point i was trying to make is that if you're playing something with passion and drive, your fans will enjoy it. Generally, there's a lot of passion in their performance, but there are a few songs, like KoS, sound rote a lot of the time. It's not that I'm sick of hearing the same song; it's that I'm tired of seeing Fruvous go through the motions on *that* song. When they put some energy into it, as they did in Baltimore, KoS is a lot of fun. Playing it because they think they have to is not the right reason, IMO. > I don't think that we can really say or judge > what the guys think of the song or playing it. Maybe not. I for one am not a mind reader. However, I've seen a lot of shows in the last year, and I at least feel qualified to compare two, three, or 15 versions of the same song. - --Amanda Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:29:38 -0600 From: katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin) Subject: Re: "bla" songs (was Re: Setlist Ponderings) In article <379485E9.C6A7601A@fruhead.com>, chadm@fruhead.com says... > So all you Dave people, don't you just think > his new stuff is positively incredible? Hmmm? Yes. k@ still anxiously awaiting her new "YCBTC" license plates ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:34:49 GMT From: "Cameron Ross" Subject: Re: OT: GBS Turn (was:Re: mom's "these guys" comments) > [1] Q: What is worse than a woman's curse? [2] A: A dimple. Huh? You mean I'm not delusional??? I thought it might be demon or something, and my ears were just playing tricks with me... but it *is* dimple?? - --00-- Life101 --00-- The world just keeps gettting stranger.... "It must be raining, cause a man ain't supposed to cry" -They Might Be Giants - -=( mental.nu/~life101| ICQ#39307347 )=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:15:35 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: LN (was Re: Setlist Ponderings) Um. I'm going to venture a contradictory opinion here (nobody seems to agree with me except Limegem). What's so wonderful about LN? I love the album, but only after listening to it about five times. I would never give a fruvirgin LN, because 1) they might be turned off by the expletives, 2) they would never "get" the banter, and 3) they wouldn't understand Boo Time and KoS Cranky Monarch b/c they'd never heard the original versions. The CD can be quite a mouthful/earful, whatever, and I'd be afraid to scare the fruvirgin. Sorry to initiate conflict. Back me up, Meg. - -mm- > I ended up getting Live Noise instead, and I am sure, that if I had gotten B'ville I > wouldn't be in love with MF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:31:28 GMT From: "Cameron Ross" Subject: Re: mom's "these guys" comments > This has nothing to do with singing off-key, but it does have to do with my > mother... > > When I she first heard the name of the band, her initial reaction was to ask: > > "They're not some sort of Neo-Nazi band, are they?" > > I promptly cracked up. That is percisly the reason I never play Michigan Militia to people who don't know about Fruvous' political standpoints... and their use of sarcasm in songs. - --00-- Life101 --00-- No I *don't* own a gun... no really! "It must be raining, cause a man ain't supposed to cry" -They Might Be Giants - -=( mental.nu/~life101| ICQ#39307347 )=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:58:00 -0400 From: Joe Navratil Subject: CustomDisc? (was Re: Solo Songs) Josh Woodward wrote: > you know what I'd love to see someday? A pseudo-album, > a little like a full-length B Album, which features just solo songs from > the guys. A lot of bands have members branch off to do solo work on their > own, but that doesn't seem like a Fruvous thing to do. A compilation CD > of all their solo stuff together would seem more in character. > > I say this because there are some *incredible* songs, some which we've > heard and some I'm sure we haven't -- I'm afraid these will never be > available to the "public". Songs like Follow The Road and Pork Tenderloin > are just wonderful and need to be heard! Is anyone else here familiar with CustomDisc? I've bought two CDs recently (Vertical Horizon's "Everything You Want" and Sarah McLachlan's "Mirrorball") that came with a little insert card with a URL and an access code. You go to the webpage they give you, enter the access code, and then a list of songs -- rare tracks, live tracks, interviews, whatever -- pops up. You're allowed to pick X number of songs (decided by the artist, apparently) from the list, as long as they amount to under 70 minutes, and then they'll send you a disc with the songs you picked for around $6-7. With the Sarah McL disc, it worked out to (I think) four songs from a list of eight and no going back; with the Vertical Horizon disc it was five songs from a list of ten, and you were allowed to buy as many as you wanted -- so if you bought two discs, you could get all twelve tracks. Now, we all know that Fruvous has more than enough material to do such a thing. Heck, they've got what, about five or six new songs they've performed live in the last year that didn't make it to the album? I don't know just how much it profits the band, or if it's linked to a particular label or labels (Sarah's Arista; VH's RCA), but I know I'm not the only one on this newsgroup who would love to get a copy of the studio version of, say, "Pisco"... ;-) (And Chad, no, this post isn't because I'm already disappointed with the track list on Thornhill. I'm not. This post is purely because I'm greedy and would love to hear the studio version, if it exists, of "FtR" :-) ) -Joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:56:43 GMT From: Angie Subject: Various On-Topic Comments I didn't credit all the originators of comments, only because I'm lazy... sorry :^) Melanie Asked: I've noticed that when Moxy Fruvous rolls into a town, they frequently turn up on a local radio station. It happened at WNKU last October (I missed it); it happened at WITR (at RIT--missed it). Anyone know if they'll be on WBER on August 10? (It would make some sense.) And, if so, when? Well, funny thing... even though it was an RIT show, and they did plug WITR (tho Jian called it WIRT, *snort*)... it was a "Local station WITR but there's this AWESOME STATION WBER...blah blah blah" WBER has been Fruvous Friendly for a very long time and usually the guys will stop in for some in-studio fun... usually, tho, it's around 5pm... and that's the time for the Record Archive In-Store. I was wondering about this myself. I suppose they could pop into the studio earlier... but thats "performing" three times in one Day! Maybe WBER will do a "Live, on Location" type broadcast from the Record Archive, or from the Benefit? Oh, I heard Half As Much on WBER yesterday... could barely keep my car on the road 'cause I was boppin' so much ;^) quoth the ever-knowing Chad: So all you Dave people, don't you just think his new stuff is positively incredible? Hmmm? ahem... may I just say that I think he's incredible, period. While I haven't had a chance to listen to the new stuff as much as the earlier CD's, something about his writing style just floors me. Not to mention his insane love for odd instruments. However, I'm waiting for the day Dave-o decides to tackle the Bagpipes... (on the other hand, seeing Dave in a kilt... ) There's also been discussion about setlists: >i'm just wondering where you get this idea. considering how old ellen wrote: >B'ville is at this point, how many new fans (particularly in the US, >since that's where kost of their recent shows have been)do you think >have really only heard *it?* When I was a "new" fan (am I still? I dunno) all I had heard was Bargainville. And that was this past Christmas. I think my cousin, who intro'd me to them had also only heard B'ville, as that is what he owned. Hmm, when I went to my first concert, the only song I knew was KoS, and I'd only heard it about 4 times. After the concert, on my next payday, I flew to Media Play and bought the only ones they had in stock... YWGTTM and B'ville. Next was Live Noise when it came out... and finally from the Record Archive Wood and b when they were released. Sometimes it only takes one song and a bit of curiosity... and on a related note: The set list isn't for *us* specifially, it's for the whole crowd. And people like KOS. As long as the band still enjoys it as well, I think it's unfair for people to insinuate they should stop playing it just because you've heard it a few too many times for your liking. >>Remember, for each show you stay home, someone else can buy the ticket you would have bought & see the band for the first time or the first time in a while.<< This was actually my thought way back when the whole Troc debacle went down. Playing multiple nights at the TLA is *not* the same as playing one sold-out show at the Troc, because garunteed the TLA crowd will have many repeat customers I believe Jian said something to this effect either at a concert or at FruCon, that it was a delicate balance they play with in deciding their setlists... while they do want to make sure the repeat fans have a good time, they also need to play to the first-timers and broaden the song range. I think it was actually in the numbers of old songs that Jian was speaking... but I think it could just as easily be applied in this situation with the "old standbys" or "crowd favorites." And as for varieties of employments: > Being a psychic friend: You crack me up! You win for oddest job ever! Funniest comment from a comedian (Dennis Miller?), "The psychic friends network filed for bankruptcy... you think they would've seen this coming?" *snort* on a "related" note, I worked as first a Rune Reader and then a Tarot Card reader for the Village Gate Psychic Center here in Rochester for about a year... and then did Tarot Card readings at Freakazoid (local club, next to the Harro East) on Friday nights for about 3 months... I still do readings on the side, but not as a "job." hee hee I think I'm done. ciao! - --Angie ...regimental, even... *blush* did I say that? They say that the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions... well, at least it will be a smooth ride - --me ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:46:51 GMT From: Raenfaerie@aol.com Subject: Re: mom's "these guys" comments also (perhaps?) speaking of subversive lyrics, i've had a couple people say to me that they feel like they "just don't get" Fruvous, and that includes banter AND songs. hmmm. i've never felt that way - -mm- > and their use of sarcasm > in songs. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:07:34 GMT From: CheesemonkeyGem Subject: Re: OT: Jobless bum Katrin wrote: I've been meaning to count all the jobs I've had. Here goes: *Job* *How I got it* 1. Waitress friend 2. Typist college job board 3. School Bus Driver college job board 4. Telemarketer college job board 5. Computer testing college recruiter Technician 6. Videographer college job board 34. Commodities Broker Newspaper ad (AWFUL, AWFUL company. Never again!) 35. Booking Agency Friend (temp. job) 36. Mail Gal (PT) Ex-boyfriend (I guess I inadvertantly slept my way to the bottom!) 37. Database Manager Newspaper ad HOLY MARY MOTHER OF ALL THINGS HOLY! here sits me with one job, and over here is big job woman, with 37 jobs under her belt! hehe, try not to find another job on your way out of the parking lot! (for those of who who have NOT seen Clerks and dont get that- nevermind :) but anyway... most people are telling me to look into a temp agency... so after i hand out my million resumes i might look into that. the thing is... im not skilled in anything. i would love to have an office type job, like clerical work, and then increase my typing and computer abilities, but i dont see that happening anytime soon. i am 19... all i see is the Golden Arches in my destiny... - -jen the "would you like fries with that?" cheesemonkey === ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Behold the power of cheese" - -American Dairy Association's slogan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:56:48 -0600 From: katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin) Subject: Re: Totally Not Anything to do with Moxy In article , ebwagner@mailbox.syr.edu says... > I need a good book to read! Any suggestions? I'm a John Irving/Judy Blume > style lover....books that are fun and wild and in the "just can put it > down" category. I've decided to go to the bookstore today, but have *no* > idea what I want to get. If you appreciate the surreal quirkiness of John Irving and the sympathetic characters of Judy Blume, you might like Jonathan Carroll. Most of his stories involve ordinary, everyday people who suddenly find elements of fairy-tale weirdness thrown like a wrench into their otherwise still-ordinary lives. Some common themes in Carroll's books: Americans living in Europe, bulldogs of the Spuds McKenzie type (sometimes they talk), fictional or dream characters coming to life, characters whose lives are intertwined (the narrator of one book might be a friend-of-a-relative of the narrator of another), a little old couch-potato man who teaches people to fly (without an airplane), housewives or movie stars or architects reluctantly fighting battles to save the world from strange evil. Some titles (in no particular order): Land of Laughs, Bones of the Moon, Sleeping In Flame, Black Cocktail, Kissing the Beehive, Outside the Dog Museum...I know there are more but just can't think of them right now. They're worth checking out. k@ ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #611 ********************************************