From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #489 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, June 14 1999 Volume 03 : Number 489 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re:Friendship Festival, 7/3/99 ["lil' spence" ] Re: Criticism: Lyric tags [nicole.twn.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the W] Re: Happy Birthday Jian! ["^kat^" ] Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) [trace@frumail.org (Trace)] Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) [mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie)] Re: Criticism: Lyric tags [mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie)] Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) [mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie)] Re: Pisco Bandito [Kevin Way ] Re: Ocean City Concert and Thornhill questions [Kevin Way Subject: Re:Friendship Festival, 7/3/99 well, im going. i know that. im relatively young so i dont have any of the required equipment. my brothers and 3 of my friends are going too! yay! i dont know if youll accept the company of a youngin like me...im just looking for acceptance...j/k dont feel bad - -chris On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:24:18 GMT Angie Armstrong wrote: >Hey gang! > >So, I'm thinking about Ft. Erie and thought I'd start the toll(just because >I'm bored and need something to do!) >Who's going? >When are you thinking you'll be arriving? >What are you bringing? >Would anyone who's staying the weekend or lives local be interested in going >to [Six Flags]Darien Lake Theme Park for the 4th of July? (Darien Lake is off >exit 48A on the Thruway, halfway between Buffalo and Rochester, but closer to >the Buffalo side). My friend Chris and I almost always go to DL on the 4th, >and a large group is always more fun (even if it did rain and was miserably >cold last year)! > >I was thinking of bringing my big camping cooler (its an igloo48 with a top >tray, inside 22"x10"x12"). If people wanted to bring foodstuffs, maybe >someone who has a portable grill or camp stove (haven't gotten around to >getting one yet), we could do a little FrüHaus Cookout kinda thing. Oh, and >of course, I'm bringing my drum, even if it just stays on the blanket or in my >trunk :^) Also thinking of bringing a boom box with CD's and a few tapes. > >It's been a good 9 or 10 years since I've been to this festival (same time of >year, I'm assuming its the same festival but I could be wrong), I just >remember we were spread out on blankets hangin' out and eating :^) If I'm way >off base with planning, someone enlighten me, 'kay? :^) > >Otherwise, I think this is as good excuse as any for an all day party! >(and i just had the odd thought that FalconRidge will be a FrüCon Summer Blast >Reunion Jam ... hee hee, esp. getting to see Susan Werner again, whoo hoo!) > >Angie > > > >I'm a little Teapot, Short and Stout >Here is my Handle here is my... >DAMMIT!!!! I'm a sugar-bowl! > >____________________________________________________________________ >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:45:32 GMT From: nicole.twn.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd) Subject: Re: Criticism: Lyric tags On 13 Jun 1999 15:05:21 -0700, someone who looked like kelloggp@nagita.cs.colorado.edu (Kellogg Patrick Layne) whispered: >"You Will Go To the Moon" also has an annoying tag... "orbiting >rondel". They played this song for John Glenn to wake him >up on the space shuttle. I imagined he sat bolt upright >in his bunk and thought "What th'?" as the >shuttle resonates with four-part harmonies ringing out >"ooooorbitiiing". "Those kids today and their music, " Glenn >grumbled, putting on his space suit, "I'm getting too >old for this." Nope. John Glenn was on shuttle mission STS-95, launched last fall. YWGTTM was a wakeup song on shuttle mission STS-85, two years ago. And the NASA guys don't pull songs out of thin air, y'know--in most cases, the wakeup songs are requested by the astronauts or ground crew. [1] So it was with Fruvous. YWGTTM was selected by spacefaring Canuck Marc Garneau of the Canadian Space Agency, who was one of the Capcoms on that mission. >Rondel? Whatever happened to humming the first note quietly >before starting the song? Or buy a pitch pipe. It's "rondelle". Means "sphere". As to why they chose to sing actual words, well... why the hell not? It sure is more interesting than hearing them hum (and they DO own at least one pitch pipe; if you watch closely, you'll see them use it). Chalk it up to artistic license and let it go, mon. Your idea of great songwriting may not mesh with theirs, but that doesn't make them bad songwriters. I notice a common thread running through all of your arguments, Patrick. You are a man of firm opinions, evidently, and you are presenting them as incontrovertible facts. I'm no psychologist, evidently, but I'd wager that this tacit assumption is what's torquing people off. You state: >1. They both have dumb band names that were probably funny at one time This is your opinion. Just because YOU think "Moxy Fruvous" or "Uncle Bonsai" (or whatever) are silly names does not mean that everyone else thinks so, or that the question is not debatable. >2. Both are far too chummy with geeky fans in the crowd "Too chummy"? Is there a line of chumminess that you do not think bands should cross? Some bands (Fruvous, EFO) enjoy chatting with fans. Some (TMBG) flee like wild deer after shows. It's a matter of personal preference and personal temperament--John Linnell of TMBG is known for having a neurotically large sense of personal space; FruLads will cheerfully hug anyone within hugging range. If you believe that there's a line between artists and audience that neither party should cross, that's absolutely fine. But the existence of such a line is nowhere but in your own head, and you need to recognize that. - --nicole twn [1] Or their families, or the crew trainers, or whatever. I submitted EFO's song "Gravity" once, but the guys in Houston never got around to playing it. :( ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:00:01 -0400 From: "^kat^" Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Jian! well, i've been wrapped up in grad-partying for a couple days, so i failed to notice this till just now: Scott Shaw wrote : >Kat...did you happen to see the Dayton Daily News birthday listing today? >For those not privileged enough to read our fine daily, they publish a list >of celebrity birthdays each day (you know..."Dick Clark is 104 today!"), >and a couple of birthday photos. One of today's photos?....That's right, >Jian has hit the big time, as is evidenced by his b'day pic in The Dayton >(Ohio) Daily News! Happy birthday, Jian, from our fair city! *urp* *cough* actually, scott... i *submitted* it. *sigh* i was just gonna let this be my own quiet bit of obsessive fandom, but now that the cat's out of the bag, i'll confess. i... i... i had an extra copy of the pic from the bio section (printed from my comp), so i sent it in with the date of his b-day and the fact that he was in a band. i mean, if people from bands like deep purple and yes can get listings in the dayton daily news, why not fruvous? after all, just yesterday tmbg's john linnell's b-day was listed (the big 4-0!). i'll scan the clipping sometime & put it on the web. in the meantime, um... does this mean i can get another point on the purity test? *grin* 48 hrs till ann arbor-- ^kat^ "and we start to slow because a song has got to stop somewhere" http://fly.to/the.midway.after.dark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:04:15 GMT From: trace@frumail.org (Trace) Subject: Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) On 13 Jun 1999 18:36:26 -0700, kelloggp@nagita.cs.colorado.edu (Kellogg Patrick Layne) wrote: >Here's another thing about Moxy that has bothered me. >No, I'm not always a bitter person, and I try not >to criticize all the time. It's just that I've >often told friends that I dislike some of Moxy >Fruvous' lyrics, and I thought the people on >this board could relate. Plus, I'm trying to >be more intersting than simply posting >"ThE BaNd RoX!!!!!!" > Ok, this band *really* rocks. > >1) Pat, you just don't get the lyrics It really doesn't matter to me whether or not you "get" certain lyrics or not. I'm sure there are lyrics that I don't exactly understand. What I can't help but wonder about is, what do you expect from the ng at large concerning these posts? Do you expect a bunch of us to argue with you, state our views about the lyrics in question or just totally ignore a bunch of posts that do nothing but criticize and taunt? Do you expect us to defend Fruvous, their lyrics and ourselves? I'm not sure we should feel compelled to do that. I'm afraid I'm simply confounded. Sorry. >2) Pat, you seem pretty obsessed with the fans > >Yeah, it's kind of an "easy laugh", and I'm making fun a little bit. >Seeing a Moxy concert for the first time made me wonder, so it's >fresh in my mind. I'm not one for autographs or bringing posters >to concerts, and I really shouldn't make fun of those that do. I agree with you there. So why are you doing it? >It's their kind of fun, and I'm being sarcastic and cynical >in that hip 90's way. I apologize, but it's fun to do. I don't mean to personally flame anyone or their views, but making fun of other people is not hip or funny. It is sad, demeaning, and shows a lack of consideration for the feelings of others. I'm sorry if you feel the need to take cheap shots at other people, but it is not appropriate here. I'm not sure what else you may have intended, but you *have* been flaming the ng. I would ask that you refrain from the flames, and concentrate any future posts on more constructive, less offensive topics. >3) Pat, get lost... you're posting too much The problem has been too much noise, not enough signal. Will someone please take this soapbox off my hands? I'm dangerous to myself and others with this thing. - -- Trace trace@frumail.org AMM-F: You must be this insane to ride ----- - -Veronica J Gruneberg ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 1999 02:43:43 GMT From: mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie) Subject: Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) P.S. And don't you EVER compare Moxy to Barenaked Ladies AGAIN! EVER!!!!!!! *grrrrrrumble* - -mocks ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 1999 02:42:19 GMT From: mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie) Subject: Re: Criticism: Lyric tags Patrick, If you have so much negative stuff to say about Moxy Fruvous, why the hell are you subscribing to the newsgroup? Duh. - -Mocks ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 1999 02:48:00 GMT From: mocksie@aol.com (Mocksie) Subject: Re: Criticism: bad lyrics (long) Sorry for so many damn posts... Pansy... I mean Patrick, writes::: "Fell In Love" from _Bargainville_ How many eggs make up a pound? How many ears of corn in the niblets? And how big was the bag? (snotty comment) 12? 4? Pretty big? Me writes: Listen to the REST of the SONG and you will UNDERSTAND! Its not about the eggs or the corn or the size of the bag... its about the chick being curious and asking a lot of questions. Double triple duh. Again... you don't like Fruvous, don't read the newsgroup, and quit looking for attention. Obviously you're starved. Try some black food to quench your appetite. - -Mocks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:55:05 -0400 From: Kevin Way Subject: Re: Pisco Bandito > am i the only one who doesn't think "pisco" is just a ha-ha song? sure, > it's funny - but isn't it more about tourist exploitation and such things? > or am i reading far too much into it? Actually, I always thought it was about illegal immigrants, who are forced to do things they don't really want to do so they can 'send money every month or so' and what not. Kevin Way kevin@overtone.org kevin@frumail.org (i think) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:00:50 -0400 From: Kevin Way Subject: Re: Ocean City Concert and Thornhill questions yep, really. I was at OC last year, and I was assigned a lousy seat in the back due to the fact I bought my ticket approximately 3 minutes before the show. KatieWow wrote: > really? i wasn't at the show last year, but i certainly thought that the > other times i had been there seats had been first-come, first-served. > maybe i'm wrong. someone had posted a phone number at one point, i thought. > ah well. that means i'll be down in OC next friday to procure my tickets > :). > ~~kate > > -- > Kate Leahy > kleahy@loyola.edu > katiewow@frumail.org > ***************************************************************** > "Quite frankly, I wish the website would just go down . . . > we're starting to make a little bit of money. It's a > disaster." > "We're about the music." > --The guys, West Coast Live > **************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:43:25 -0400 From: Kevin Way Subject: You've inspired a post from me, congratulations :) Greetings fruvous fans, and those of you who just read the group for the pure curiousity of it all... Anybody who has discussed Fruvous songs with me will also know that I don't exactly love every fruvous song (When She Talks and I Will Hold On for example) but some of this criticism seems a bit... ummm... how shall I say this... like all that ash over there used to be hash, and you're not exactly sure what time it is now. > "...from the Fruvous quill comes a story of love and > illin'". Here, they're trying to be funny, kind of > a white-boy rap that Barenaked Ladies also does. (corrected lyric) From the Fruvous Quill comes a sorry tale of love and illin'.... to me, this lyric seems like a fairly appropriate way to open a song which talks about a girl who cheats on poor BJ. As for the white-boy rap thing on the Barenaked Ladies side, first of all please buy a copy of Maybe You Should Drive or well... most any song but One Week, Fight The Power, or they're admittedly, and deliberately silly. BNL has great great sad songs (Break Your Heart). now back to my point (did I have a point? I'm not even sure.) Ah yes, I certainly wouldn't compare the intro to BJ to BNL covering Fight The Power. But by that stretch, then should no white people ever quasi-rap even if it fits the song? Should Jim's Big Ego stop playing their cover of Feelin' Groovy? Of course not, that would be silly. > "Horseshoes" from _wood_ > Look straight at the coming disaster > Realize what you've lost > You keep handing out horseshoes > Horseshoes have gotta be tossed. Horseshoes in a nutshell: my take on it. The character in Horseshoes keeps setting himself up for disaster. In the first verse he trades control (handed her the reigns) for a favor (she said she'd do my dishes) without thinking about the consequences of the actions. From there the stage is set and horseshoes is defined, and it gets more intense and to the root of the matter, somebody who allows a relationship to go off-course, denying to themselves that anything is going wrong when in fact they're "handing out horseshoes" which are bound to be thrown carelessly back at them. I actually find it to be a good story told in a nicely unconventional way. And no, I've never gotten a horseshoe signed, nor considered it. :-) Though if somebody did, who cares? > "Lazlo's Career" from _wood_ > Everyone has a groovy time with Lazlo. > We know the effervesence will be near. > We have lots of friends back in Ontario. (Our home) > But right now, there is no better place than here > for Lazlo's career. (snotty lyric correction) Lazlo's Career -- from You Will Go To The Moon Everyone has a groovy time with Lazlo He speaks poetry and brings us cheer We have lots of friends back in Ontario But right now, there is no better place then here for lazlo's career. okay, I can't sit here and say this is some profound and mystical song, but I can tell you who Lazlo was and let you draw your own conclusion about why he has a song... (quoting the FAQ) Lazlo is John Shotwell, Fruvous' old soundman, with them through the end of 1996 and rejoining them briefly in the summer of '97. "Lazlo" is said to be either a nickname Fruvous gave him or his professional name. They've also been heard to say that the name refers to a sprite. After John, Trevor joined the band for a few months in the spring and summer of '97, and Cal, who predates John, rejoined them after John's summer stint. Honestly, if those lines bother you, I suggest you do what I do when they sing When She Talks. Get a drink. Trust me, enough Bombay Sapphire and Tonic and you'll find yourself able to enjoy absolutely anything, even Dan Bern. (kevin runs and hides, that was a joke folks :-) As for River Valley... I'm going to have to make my argument non song specific. One of the lads sat down and wanted to write a song about enviromental type stuff, they wrote a song which I really like when played live. It's catchy and it has a good message that might make somebody think 'hey, maybe I should think about the environment' or it might not. I'm not sure how your comment about it being Bathetic applies, as Bathetic is defined as anticlimactic. The song starts, it gets a nice groove, it makes me feel a little bit energetic, but yet I don't feel let down at the end, so to me, no it's not Bathetic. > "Stuck In the 90's" from _Bargainville_ > Tell the world it's your lackey > Abbie Hoffman was wacky > ... > don't you know what it's like to be lost? > and older..."tears on his shoulder" > real men are BOLDER!! > > (snotty comment) > The BOLDER is what gets me here, sung in > good old four-part harmony again. Um, yeah. > Abbie Hoffman was... um.. wacky. Wacky wacky. > And Tim Leary was high. This is a meaningful > commentary on the nineties vs. the sixties? > Actually, I like this song, it's just that > BOLDER makes me giggle. Sorry. Perhaps I'm missing something, maybe I'm just dumb. Well, actually, it's widely agreed that I'm dumb, so maybe you can help me? what's wrong with four part harmony? Music performed by people who can sing? my god! it should be outlawed! Just a note for the future, you should never EVER check out DaVinci's Notebook. They have harmonies that just 'um, yeah.' (sorry to borrow your argument against four part harmony, it was too persuasive to let pass :-) > "Fell In Love" from _Bargainville_ > How many eggs make up a pound? > How many ears of corn in the niblets? > And how big was the bag? > > (snotty comment) > 12? 4? Pretty big? Patrick, you're pulling out of context. It makes more sense if you mention that 'she was a tangle of questions' and then think about the song and whether or not those lyrics are supposed to make a point. By pulling things out of context you can easily change the meaning of anything. "Really, Eddie? Was it a hunger?" -- Patrick See, that just sounds silly, and pointless, and could perhaps result in a 'Criticism: posted messages by Patrick' message, but that would just be silly and not in the good way. > "The Drinking Song" from _Bargainville_ > And we'd drink, two gnarly dudes and some records > Much like plates of black food > > (snotty comment) > I'm going to make someone mad here. This is the > favorite song of a lot of people, and I'm sure they > like the black food line. They've probably cooked > an entire meal from the "Johnny Saucep'n" song > and served it on black plate. And had the band sign > it. I'll ignore the rude and unneccessary portion of the comment which added nothing to your argument while simultaneously making your audiance hostile and devaluing the strength of your arguments. I won't mention that portion at all. :-) Plates of black food, okay, well, it looks like from the continuation of the rest of your comment I have to explain the entire song to you. Why I'm taking my time to do this is beyond me, but I am, perhaps in the thought that maybe one of the people you've thoughtlessly offended will feel a little better or maybe that you'll even read this and actually think about what I'm saying. The drinking song, we'll start from the top. Two guys, close friends who took some risks together, sitting around drinking and listening to music. The black food? what kind of food is black? burnt food. why is something burnt? because it had too much and it's dead. (my interpretation, I could be dead wrong, I didn't write it, I just listen to it occasionally). okay, so now they're lounging around, so drunk that they stand up and they fall down, and then there's the metaphor about drinking and war... about how when you drink like that you're destroying yourself, they openthe window, play some nintendo, sing a little bit, and then make reference to the war with 'till he's finally beaten his me' then the singer's buddy passes out on the sundeck and says goodbye. alcohol poisoning. the guy's too drunk to do anything, too drunk to save the singer's buddy. but the dying man is sort of happy looking, he finally won the war against himself. singer never drinks again, and isn't even sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. and by this point the chorus should make sense. That's the fastest possible way to explain that 'yes this is a story, full and complete' at least in my moronic estimation. > Like people who think Ben Folds Five's song > "Brick" is a love song, Well they're wrong, it's about teenage abortion. anybody who thinks it's a love song hasn't read the lyrics, at all. 'she's a brick and i'm drowning slowly' could never ever be construed by a love song, not that oh well.. (end tangent) > or that the picture > of a guy nailed to a cross is anything but a > disgusting image of tortur, I think > you're a bit off if you put your arms > around each other and sway to the beat. > (and I've been guilty of it, too) And not to be flammable and rude here, but I think you're a bit off if you insult somebody's religion. It's not mine, I don't really have one. But I respect it. It's called tolerance and opening your mind, it's pretty neat. As for putting arms around each other and swaying to the beat... well first of all, I've never seen a line actually stay on the beat :-) but I think it's amazing. In today's world, with all of today's problems, where else do you see people putting their arms around total strangers, and singing a song without anybody stealing each other's wallets? Silly? maybe. a bad thing? never. > Truly thinking about this song makes > me think "Ick. Bummer. Sucks to be him." GOOD! It's not a happy song, it's about a guy dying... if you're left thinking 'sucks to be him' then it worked (to as much of a degree as is possible) because a small portion of your mind associated 'death by alcohol abuse' with 'bad thing'. > "Darlington Darling" from _Bargainville_ > but you'll never find the right bijou I'll pull one of your tricks here... definition of bijou according to webster's unabridged is a word applied to anything small and of elegant workmanship. Is it the best lyric in the world? no. It's it going to cause world peace? no. Does it fit? sure. It fits better than 'sports!' does :-) > "Laika" from _Bargainville_ > Now I'm full grown, and I've a spacecraft of my own > But there you sit, still upon your Earthly throne > Hey darling, throw this space-pup a bone > Don't touch that dial, don't hang up that phone > Band's playin' hail to the chief > It puzzles me so... > Don't hang up that phone > > (snotty comment) > Some fan has probably named their dog "space pup". > The "BAND PLAYING HAIL TO THE CHIEF" > rattles around at the end of the song... > another meaningless "tag line". I still can't > quite figure out why Moxy like ending > songs on a sour note Because Laika is a song about the dog, Laika, that the Russians sent up into space and surprise, surprise, left her there. So the last point made was that the band was playing hail to the chief, that the nation was so happy about this, but really all they'd done was find a really expensive and exotic way to starve a dog to death. > (pre-emptive strike against criticism) > > 1) Pat, you just don't get the lyrics Pat, you just have to relax. You'll like some things, you won't like others. Everybody has a different favorite flavor of Ben and Jerry's, but the fact that you don't like Phish Food doesn't mean that it should be discontinued. > > 2) Pat, you seem pretty obsessed with the fans Pat, you have some passion that we'd probably think is pretty weird too. An example of something that I just would never be able to understand would be a person who collects bad lyrics. Why focus on the stuff you don't like? > 3) Pat, get lost... you're posting too much Well, at least you're postings are on topic, at least those that I've read. G'day, Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:56:11 GMT From: "Madd Hatter" Subject: Theater/Film Techies and Lyrics: YWGTTM Actually, Moxy isn't tagging anything at all in this song...it's the truth. The moon is shaped (from earth) like a roundel, which is a colored (red, blue, etc.) glass lens used in theatrical strip lights. It's pretty much shaped like a contact lens, and goes outside the actual light. The moon, therefore, resembles a Roundel that orbits the earth. End of story. - -- - ---------------- "Never." Jerry S. Levine nospam.maddhatter@spamsucks.earthling.net (can you figure out what to remove?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:57:22 GMT From: "Madd Hatter" Subject: Re: Theater/Film Techies and Lyrics: YWGTTM whoops...to finish: Main Entry: roun·del Pronunciation: 'raun-d&l Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old French rondel, from roont round -- more at ROUND Date: 14th century - -----------> 1 : a round figure or object (as a circular panel, window, or niche) 2 a : RONDEL 2a b : an English modified rondeau Main Entry: ron·del Pronunciation: 'rän-d&l, rän-'del Variant(s): or ron·delle /rän-'del/ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, literally, small circle -- more at ROUNDEL Date: 14th century 1 usually rondelle : a circular object; especially : a circular jewel or jeweled ring 2 a usually rondel : a fixed form of verse based on two rhyme sounds and consisting usually of 14 lines in three stanzas in which the first two lines of the first stanza are repeated as the refrain of the second and third stanzas b : a poem in this form - -- - ---------------- "Never." Jerry S. Levine nospam.maddhatter@spamsucks.earthling.net (can you figure out what to remove?) ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #489 ********************************************