From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #377 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, May 5 1999 Volume 03 : Number 377 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: 2 xtra hoboken tix? [Jacey7@aol.com] Queen Lisa [Mindy J Munson ] Re: T-shirts [firedancer ] Re: review: Frtica NY 4/30/99 ["Jill Hufnagel" ] Re: T-shirts [Mindy J Munson ] Re: 2 xtra hoboken tix? [Jacey7@aol.com] Re: BREAST SIZE ["Jill Hufnagel" ] Re: T-shirts ["Jill Hufnagel" ] Re: T-shirts [Mindy J Munson ] Re: New fan [srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n)] Re: T-shirts [srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n)] Ontario Election [Fiona ] Re: BREAST SIZE [Jacey7@aol.com] Re: review: Frtica NY 4/30/99 [srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n)] Are there any sites to DL moxy fruvous Mp3's?? ["Stewart Hewlett" ] Re: Me, Anna and NJ PLEEZ!!!! [Mindy J Munson ] Need Hoboken tix? [Jacey7@aol.com] Re: T-shirts [petit_chou@juno.com] Re: Need Hoboken tix? [Mindy J Munson ] Re: BREAST SIZE [petit_chou@juno.com] Psycho Killer on Live Noise a capella? [jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (] Re: BREAST SIZE [jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (Neil Bardhan)] Re: Psycho Killer on Live Noise a capella? [Paul Mischler > Anyone? Please??<< Does this mean it's sold out? ~jen (who already has her ticket, but had a friend planning on buying one too) - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."-- Rent - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:12:13 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Queen Lisa I always knew she was my long lost mommy since DC and now I know. With all this breast talk and what she has to say about them, how could she not be? When I talk to my "real mom" =+) about Lisa, I always refer to her as frumom. fruchild, *canoodle!* ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:37:39 GMT From: firedancer Subject: Re: T-shirts petit_chou@juno.com advised: > I make shirts. I'm not talking all crafty and puff-painty...I'm talking > a good old fashioned Hanes Beefy Tee (they have nice long shirt tails and > closer fitting bodies so they aren't all humongous and boxy like many > men's tee-shirts) and a Sharpie or two (more than one colour if you're > feeling adventurous). good call heather! i'm off to satisfy my creative ambitions with a sharpie in one hand and a tee (of appropriate size) in the other. now if only you had a solution to all of our breast complaints, you'd really be on a roll... thanks for the advice! ~kristen firedancer@postmark.net ================================================== "oh lord, it is not the sins i have committed that i regret, but those which i've had no opportunity to commit."--ghalib ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:28:51 GMT From: "Jill Hufnagel" Subject: Re: review: Frtica NY 4/30/99 >hmm . . . >you know you listen to too much früvous when you actually think about buying >and reading "jian" by eric v. lustbader :) ? >~~kate Well you know how Oprah has her little book club...well I think that we should start our own little book club. We could all read the book "Jian", I bet they would wonder why all the sudden their sales like skyrocketed... Just a thought!!! Hey and nobody know what ever happened to that Moxy Literary Magazine? Someone out there must know something was the idea just scrapped? **Jiel** _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:12:17 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: T-shirts I can't help it. I have to comment. My friend makes homemade tank tops and my fav is one that reads "I *heart* poop" right on the boobs. real funny! fruchild, *canoodle!* Here's what >I do. I pick out a quote from a song. I write it on the front of the >shirt. > >EX: For my Tori Amos shirt, I says simply, "Don't wanna be a boy >today." > >If I'm feeling especially creative, I'll draw a little logo on the >front left breast and something on the back. > >EX: For my Moxy Fruvous shirt, the front has a little Canadian Flag >with the Budgie in the middle (sound like something we know?) and the >back says "I love Canadian Boys" and there's a heart in the middle of >the "o" in "love." > >I get TONS of comments on my home-made shirts (the point is not to >make them look too planned out and executed. If you do that, it looks >like you're just cheap...unless you can silk screen, which is a whole >'nother ballgame). It's an easy way to A) have whatever size shirt >you want in whatever colour you want B) pick the exact content of the >shirt/message and, C) you feel way cool in the process. Get the word >of your favourite band out there and don't let lame-ass shirt sizes >discourage you! > >Heather Moore > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get >completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:46:11 GMT From: Jacey7@aol.com Subject: Re: 2 xtra hoboken tix? >> Anyone? Please?? > Can we make that *FOUR* extra Hoboken tickets? ::snip:: Tickets may be available at Tunes and the other in-person site in Manhattan, but I have no way of getting them there.< OK, I just called Tunes, and they said they still have "a bunch" of tickets available. If you guys want, I can try and stop by after work (no gaurantees-- we're trying to get our issue out today, so I may be here late)and pick up some for you guys. ~jen - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."-- Rent - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:05:42 GMT From: "Jill Hufnagel" Subject: Re: BREAST SIZE >Ya know, from a guys' point of view... I'd just like to say that >breast >size REALLY doesn't matter. >I mean, some of you may have big breasts, some may have smaller >breasts.... but hey, that's what makes the world interesting, >right? >Personally, that's about the LAST thing I look for when I'm >.interested >in someone........... (And no, I'm not just saying this to be PC.) >.:) >Of course.... I've always had weird taste in women, according to >my >friends... so what do I know. >heheheheh >At the risk of sounding like a hippy...... Everyone is >beautiful!!!! >And, what it really comes down to is what's inside of ya! >If you're a good person, who cares if you're thin or fat? blonde >or >brown-haired? big-chested or small? >I mean, I dunno..... I think that people SHOULD be different! >That's >what makes the world interesting! >But enough outta me...... Time to get back to work....... > >Cheers, >nate Well I think that that is a great way to be...you, unlike all your friends and other breast obcessed men out there, will get a woman and a damn good woman. And you know why because you'll know the color of her eyes...right girls. I think that you and your thoughts are just great. **Jiel** _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:19:04 GMT From: "Jill Hufnagel" Subject: Re: T-shirts >Jen, I'm sure you haven't *alienated* a single male here. If >you think about it, >from the male perspective, this discussion the next best thing >to "Hidden Shower >Cam!!!" :) HAHAHA!!! Thats awsome. >But seriously, I have to echo what Nate said: Breast size does >not matter at all (to >many men.) Breasts matter--most of us REALLY like them--but >size is not the point. Big and small are equally nice. Even unusual shapes >are cool, >because they are just >that: unusual. Frankly I have to tell you, about the last thing >any guy is going to >do upon seeing a woman's breasts is criticize. (And if they DO >do that, put your >shirt back on and walk away quickly. There are plenty of better >ones out there.) All I have to say is Amen to that...I tell ya it must be a fru guy thing to know how to think on topics that actually matter to the opposite sex. **Jiel** _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:14:21 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: T-shirts >All I have to say is Amen to that...I tell ya it must be a fru guy >thing to >know how to think on topics that actually matter to the opposite sex. >**Jiel** Now here is where I ring in my Amen! fruchild, *canoodle!* ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: 5 May 1999 17:16:43 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n) Subject: Re: New fan Dietrich wrote: >First of all, please forgive me if I'm repeating myself here. I'm trying to >make my newsreader behave. >It's winning, so far... naughty naughty newsreader. give it some Ritalin and maybe it will stop being so hyper. But of course we'll forgive you, Dietrich. We'll even give you the big snuggly Frühead welcome, and advise you to speed with all due haste to http://www.fruvous.com for the information that will dictate every move you make henceforth. And if you two new guys can forgive us our occasional obsessions on the irrelevant (bra sizes is a new one even for me, and I've been known to embrace almost any topic) -- glad -- no, make that more than glad -- to have you with us! If you can increase the signal-to-noise ratio, even better! Post early and often! And oh, yeah, to answer the question, yah they're that good live. - -- Lori, who will get her 15th Frümiles stamp on Saturday. Yaaaaaaaay! ******************************* Visit Lori's strange and wonderful world! http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html ------------------------------ Date: 5 May 1999 17:38:18 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n) Subject: Re: T-shirts Jiel wrote, and Mindy Amen-ed, and I snip: >>All I have to say is Amen to that...I tell ya it must be a fru guy >>thing to >>know how to think on topics that actually matter to the opposite sex. You could cut that off right after "think". :) - -- Lori, who likes and respects the debating and conversational abilities of Früguys. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Not knowing knowledge never ennobles. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:41:06 GMT From: Fiona Subject: Ontario Election The election has been called for June 3rd (looks like the guys will have to vote early) Wonder if an Ontario date will suddenly pop up now? Big Fish, Today's the Day and Downsizing are suddenly even more relevant than usual, it would be a shame to not have them played. Fiona War9 Vaq Research Girl: http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/jdvachon/ Quoting Frühead: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/3227/ Pretender-l Ratings Messenger: http://www.nbc.com/pretender I like being outed by Fruvous. They're so nonjudgmental. *snort* - Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:40:26 GMT From: Jacey7@aol.com Subject: Re: BREAST SIZE >> Well I think that that is a great way to be...you, unlike all your friends and other breast obcessed men out there,<< I agree, but I think its unfair to put it all on guys. In my experience, girls are be even worse than guys in judging and tearing apart how someone else looks. Maybe it's because girls, in general, are more closely scrutinized on their appearance, that they feel the need to not only conform to those standards of beauty, but also enforce them... ~jen - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."-- Rent - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: 5 May 1999 17:32:50 GMT From: srm9988n@aol.com.LoriM (Srm9988n) Subject: Re: review: Frtica NY 4/30/99 Jiel the creative wrote: >Well you know how Oprah has her little book club...well I think that we >should start our own little book club. We could all read the book "Jian", I >bet they would wonder why all the sudden their sales like skyrocketed... Hey! There are limits even *I* will recognize in my pursuit of all things Frü, and wasting my limited literary time on a piece of Ninja-tripe when there is Tom Robbins, Margaret Atwood, and William Styron to catch up on is one of those limits. > Hey and nobody know what ever happened to that Moxy >Literary Magazine? Someone out there must know something was the idea just >scrapped? I believe this zine has met the fate of many prior projects -- cookbook, anyone? We tend to talk about these things for awhile when there's no gigs or bra sizes to kibbitz about, but they seem eventually to get lost in the reality that no one has the inclination to actually bring in all to fruition. Hope that doesn't disappoint and/or piss off anyone wishing to be involved in these projects. If you're that interested in it, Jiel -- you could always be the coordinator! As for me, the cookbook thread (from when, way back in September maybe?) did inspire me to put together my chocolate page anyway. (Now THERE's a shameless plug.) You can find it at a link off the URL in my sig, in the "fun stuff" section of that way-too-big-page that I haven't managed to subpage yet. Again, if/when I have the time ... - -- Lori the self-promoting confectioner ******************************* Visit Lori's strange and wonderful world! http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 14:15:16 -0400 From: "Stewart Hewlett" Subject: Are there any sites to DL moxy fruvous Mp3's?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:13:43 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: splatter splatter Taryn Chase delighted us with: >and i'm curious to know--did anybody else hear "she's just a tease"? >it seems to make sense either way; i just wanted to know if i was totally >off my rocker. I've always heard "teen," and it rhymes better with the rest of the lyrics, but I wouldn't be surprised if they changed lyrics slightly the time you heard the song. - -v Vika Zafrin, vika at ibm dot net "i'm not a mess. i'm a natural disaster." -norg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:01:00 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: ok, once again....raise your hands "Hell Hotel" delighted us with: >I've asked this question already a few times, but just for good measure. >Who's gonna be going to the Clifton Park show on thurs? I will. So will norg. ChrisO won't: he's got work the following day. :/ All three of us, though, with other cool people, are gonna be in Providence on Friday. - -v Vika Zafrin, vika at ibm dot net "i'm not a mess. i'm a natural disaster." -norg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:21:36 -0500 From: Carol Krupka Subject: Literary magazine Okay. Right now I'm swamped with finals and...am going literally batty. (But crazy is fun!) However, if some people are interested, I'd be willing to hash out some ideas for it over the summer...maybe over the e-mail lines? (Since I'm rooted in Chambana by work, etc.) 'Cause it sounds cool and I personally would love to read some of the literary works of the newsgroup members. I mean, wouldn't it be cool to see what kind of creativity is nourished out there? (out there being...beyond the monitor!!!) Anyway. Sounds like an interesting idea. I'm not saying I'd have tons of time but...I'd like to at least discuss the possibility in a little more detail to see if it's feasible. (Since I'm new to the group and wasn't around when the possibility was first brought up) I make no promises of following through right now...but I'd like to hold an extended conversation on potential ways of doing it. (ooo...and just reading this you can tell I'm in paper writing mode. Sorry) At any rate....AH! SUNSHINE! I do thrive upon it! :)Carol ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "And remember, the world is possibility if only you'll discover it." --Ralph Ellison ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:59:46 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: Me, Anna and NJ PLEEZ!!!! Thanx for the help everyone, but it looks as though we won't be going to this one... See you at Gulch right norg? I'll bring prom pix just for you =+) fruchild, *canoodle!* ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:44:56 GMT From: Jacey7@aol.com Subject: Need Hoboken tix? I already posted a similar message, but I just discoverd two more "in need." I think I'm probably the closest to Hoboken here (unless any of the NYC people care to cross the border ;-) so I am going to *try* (repeat: try-- I cannot gaurantee anything) to stop by Tunes after work tonight and get: 2 tickets for Lindsay 2 tickets for Kimberly 1 ticket each for Mindy and Anna I called the store and they said they still have "a bunch." If there is anyone else who wants me to try and score them some tix in this endeavor, please post before 5 and let me know!! ~jen - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover "Measure your life in love."-- Rent - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:18:01 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: Re: T-shirts kristen said: >now if only you had a solution to all of our breast complaints, you'd >really be on a roll... Okay. Here it is. Watch There's Something About Mary and pay special attention at the Magda-Saggy-Breasts-Revealed part. Then think to yourself, "Self, thank goodness you have the good sense to wear appropriate support and just look at what you COULD have instead. I'm so glad I've got what I've got." I swear this works for all types. : ) Heather Moore, Universal Solvent ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:28:13 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: Need Hoboken tix? hun, don't bother for me and Anna... but thank you so much!!! Mindy On Wed, 05 May 1999 18:44:56 GMT Jacey7@aol.com writes: >I already posted a similar message, but I just discoverd two more "in >need." >I think I'm probably the closest to Hoboken here (unless any of the >NYC >people care to cross the border ;-) so I am going to *try* (repeat: >try-- I >cannot gaurantee anything) to stop by Tunes after work tonight and >get: > >2 tickets for Lindsay >2 tickets for Kimberly >1 ticket each for Mindy and Anna > >I called the store and they said they still have "a bunch." If there >is >anyone else who wants me to try and score them some tix in this >endeavor, >please post before 5 and let me know!! > >~jen >-- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >"Do you know that you are very strong?"-- Grover >"Measure your life in love."-- Rent > >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network >==---------- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your >Own > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:18:51 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: Re: BREAST SIZE Nate The Extremely Cool Guy said: >If you're a good person, who cares if you're thin or fat? blonde or >brown-haired? big-chested or small? ...Or have HAIRY LEGS! Okay, that's just my own personal crusade, I guess. Heather Moore, founder of the Hairy Legged Girl Preserve PS - to all those out there in Frutown worried about their...shall we say...unsubstantial breasts...all I have to say is this. A friend of mine wears size F. No shit. F. Anyway, she has big ol grooves in her shoulders from her bra straps, she has to have her bras special ordered, and running is hell. Be thankful that A) you can run (relatively) painlessly, B) there are a bazillion bras out there for ya, C) if, for some reason, you wanna temporarily add some oomph to your bosom, it's easy (whereas it's really difficult and uncomfortable to go from larger to smaller), D) tee shirts fit, E) you can even get away with not wearing a bra when it's really hot outside (GOD BLESS AMERICA!). I feel blessed to have my smaller chest. That is all. PPS - Okay, I feel bad that all these women have shared their horrible breast stories and I haven't so I'll tell this one. My dad (he's a very silly man, and there's no other way to explain him unless you know him) likes to embarrass my brother and me. One of his favourite things to do is go somewhere like Mervyn's with me. We'll go near the lingerie department and he'll pick out the most gigantic, ornate, brightly coloured, cantilevered breast suspension unit he can find and *YELLS* across the aisles, "HEY PRECIOUS! HOW ABOUT THIS ONE!" This really happens. He never tires of it. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:44:50 GMT From: jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (Neil Bardhan) Subject: Psycho Killer on Live Noise a capella? Um, I don't own much MF yet.. only YWGTTM, 2 shows, and a mix tape with some random stuff. Is the Psycho Killer track on Live Noise(I've heard it a few times, but not for a long while) with instruments or a capella? My a capella group is thinking about doing PK (inspired by Bobs, Blenders..) and maybe I should get the album. For the record, I wear men's shirts for my hardly existent breasts, because I'm male. Neil Neil Bardhan: stage manager,tape trader,CTY Nevermore,Libertarian,and nice guy http://www.servtech.com/~jbardhan/ "Don't worry, be happy" -- Bobby McFerrin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 19:45:40 GMT From: jbardhan@demon.ceh.servtech.com (Neil Bardhan) Subject: Re: BREAST SIZE On Wed, 05 May 1999 00:36:12 -0400, Nate DeRose wrote: >Personally, that's about the LAST thing I look for when I'm interested >in someone........... >(And no, I'm not just saying this to be PC.) >:) Hey, you look at a girl's computer _too_? I thought I was the only one who did that.. wait, that's not at all what you said :P Whoops! Neil Neil Bardhan: stage manager,tape trader,CTY Nevermore,Libertarian,and nice guy http://www.servtech.com/~jbardhan/ "Don't worry, be happy" -- Bobby McFerrin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:13:16 -0400 From: Paul Mischler Subject: Re: Psycho Killer on Live Noise a capella? The Psycho Killer on Live Noise is not a cappella. You should get the Live Noise CD. It is quite good. :-) Shameless plug: www.fruvous.com for more info - -Paul Mischler Neil Bardhan wrote: > Um, I don't own much MF yet.. only YWGTTM, 2 shows, and a mix tape > with some random stuff. Is the Psycho Killer track on Live Noise(I've > heard it a few times, but not for a long while) with instruments or a > capella? My a capella group is thinking about doing PK (inspired by > Bobs, Blenders..) and maybe I should get the album. For the record, I > wear men's shirts for my hardly existent breasts, because I'm male. > > Neil > Neil Bardhan: stage manager,tape trader,CTY Nevermore,Libertarian,and nice guy > http://www.servtech.com/~jbardhan/ > "Don't worry, be happy" -- Bobby McFerrin ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #377 ********************************************