From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #143 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Thursday, February 11 1999 Volume 03 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Neil Gaiman's Nevermore [jamn ] Re: capital punishment [Josh Drury ] Re: capital punishment [Josh Drury ] Re: Smarties (Was DC setlist...) [elrond@fellspt.charm.net (Matt James)] Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info [jamn ] Re: Interviews at Colleges [elrond@fellspt.charm.net (Matt James)] Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info [Srm9988n@aol.com] Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info [Groovy Spice ] Re: capital punishment [Srm9988n@aol.com] Re: Smarties (Was DC setlist...) [remcoat@aol.com (REMcoat)] Re: capital punishment [KatieWow ] Re: capital punishment ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: Interviews at Colleges ["KatieWow" ] Amanda's Campaign: Early Morning Rain on the upcoming album. [koogle@clar] Re: Amanda's Campaign: Early Morning Rain on the upcoming album. ["Adam H] Re: Philly City Paper Troc Piece [petit_chou@juno.com] Re: Chris gave birth to a DAT tape (was Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info) [ch] Re: Philly City Paper Troc Piece [dmandeluxe@aol.com (Dmandeluxe)] Re: Philly and stuff.... [toetappr1@aol.com (Toetappr1)] Re: A message from Jian regarding Philadelphia [Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: Neil Gaiman's Nevermore thank heaven more collecters then not don't feel this way or I would be broke.......... Brian Nicholson wrote: > neil gaiman sucks. I'm sort of odd in my taste in comics, I also hate > peter david and john byrne. ack.ooh, batman's on. gotta' go. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:48:42 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: capital punishment A.J. LoCicero wrote: > > When I hear the tale of 52 people killed, sure I want to run out and shoot this guy > too, but you have to say to yourself: No. That is an instinctual reaction. It feels > good at the moment, but carefully considered it is not the right thing to do. Well spoken A.J.! If we could remove the feelings of revenge and hatred, murders would probably be cut in half. Josh Drury Winnipeg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:43:51 -0600 From: Josh Drury Subject: Re: capital punishment Nate DeRose wrote: > If you kill someone, somebody sees you do it, they kill you. > It would be much more simple that way..... That's called "mob justice". Which is, incidentally, one of the world's biggest oxymorons, after "Microsoft Works". Josh Drury Winnipeg (And besides, in an ideal world, why would there be a need for capital punishment?) ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1999 18:44:42 GMT From: elrond@fellspt.charm.net (Matt James) Subject: Re: Smarties (Was DC setlist...) : [1] Buttons is the name of a chocolate competitor to smarties in the : UK. Only without the crispy sugar coating. Buttons are better for : those times when you don't want sugary coating using up valuable : chocolate space in the packets... I really enjoy Sainsbury's Honeycomb bar, tis yummy. - -Matt - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt James Voice: (301) 231-9898 x. 121 TYC Associates email: mjames@tyc.com Rockville, MD alternate: mattj@charm.net http://www.tyc.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:47:45 GMT From: jamn Subject: Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info just want to put my 2 cents in as a suporter of many folk fests I have found none as enjoyable as falcon ridge is...though they may not get as much as the top talent as say philla or newport..they make up for it in the way the fans are treated adn what they do provide is as good as ya get...... i have always felt that if they knew how much fun it was they would raise the prices way more then the price as it is now....... if ya can go ....GO!!!!! :) later all Jason A. Reiser wrote: > In article <19990210185202.29102.00000133@ng62.aol.com>, wbsmiles@aol.com > says... > > > [...] > > > >>there y'are. don't know if camping prices are per person or per tent/group > >>:). > >> > >>~~kate > > > >Well I haven't been to Falcon Ridge before, but every other festival I've ever > >been to, it's per tent, not per person. Hard to beat 3 days of music for $50! > > Falcon Ridge camping tickets (which become bracelets when you arrive) are > required for all campers. There is no "per tent" charge, or at least there > hasn't been one in the past. > > There has always been security that asks you to show your bracelets as you drive > up the hill to the camping sites, but people are basically free to just walk up > the hill to the tents. It's a pretty easy-going festival, so the honor system > comes into play in some areas. > > See ya there, > > - Jason > jreiser@ecoutez.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1999 18:36:54 GMT From: elrond@fellspt.charm.net (Matt James) Subject: Re: Interviews at Colleges : it really depends on the college. *huge* schools, like OSU, don't require : one, tho' the honors program might have (i can't remember). the "big east" : schools, like harvard, yale, brown, etc., all require/strongly encourage I thought these were called "Ivy League" schools? Isn't the "big east" a sports conference? : oh, and p.s.: if anyone has any suggestions as to whether it'd be better for : me to attend college in ohio [where i've lived my whole life] very cheaply : or spend lots to go eastward but experience a different "cultural" : perspective as well as a more prestigiously named school... *heh* i'll take : any advice you can offer. perpetually indecisive-- k. Go for the east coast, it's where it's at! Plus, you'll get your Fruvous fix as there're more big cities close together for them to hit. As for the money? Ahh, you need the cultural experience, get away from home, and the money? Well just make sure you get a job when you get outta there! Or be a professional student ;) With the schools you're applying for, I'm sure you'll be able to find something good job-wise. - -Matt - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt James Voice: (301) 231-9898 x. 121 TYC Associates email: mjames@tyc.com Rockville, MD alternate: mattj@charm.net http://www.tyc.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:30:38 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info Richard graced us with: > I notice from their web-site that Falcon Ridge suffers from a distinct lack > of skinny mandolin players. There may be an attempt to rectify this > deficiency. Ooooh, Richard, do it please! Please please please? - -- Lori, who will be there, and who is dying to meet the marvellous Richard. (there. I spelled marvellous in British. Hope you're all happy!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:08:20 GMT From: Groovy Spice Subject: Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info In article <36C2ABE5.3E283B28@mdx.NONASTYSPAM.ac.uk>, r.j.butterworth@mdx.NONASTYSPAM.ac.uk wrote:> > I notice from their web-site that Falcon Ridge suffers from a distinct lack > of skinny mandolin players. There may be an attempt to rectify this > deficiency. i might be bringing one with me. [1] peace, ellen (let's *all* bring one!) [1] well, not WITH me with me. that is to say, he expressed interest in coming, and, he came to me for info. and i imagine his wife will probably come too. ;) ********************************************************************* May you build a ladder to the stars And climb on every rung ********************************************************************* - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:15:47 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: Re: capital punishment I don't want to prolong this thread any more than Arabel does, especially as she seems to feel it has degenerated into a flame war. I haven't noticed any flaming on the ng, just the usual level of animated discussion, but I do hope no one has resorted to private email flames to those who disagree. That's just cowardly. I mean what I say below only respectfully. We all have our losses and hurts, and we need to understand that, and give each person space to deal with that, if we are to communicate instead of just ranting at each other. Arabel wrote: > TO those who will say criminals can be reformed, I offer up several > studies which show convincingly that there are chemical and physical >differences in the minds of many repeat criminals of all varieties > there was also no definitive cure for him. Any more than there is for schizophrenia, depression, autism or Down Syndrome. I cannot, however, endorse the premise that eliminating those that are in some way "defective" is the only way to deal with their problems, and the problems they pose to society. > To those who say capital punishment is immoral slaughter -- yes. You're > right. But isn't that what they did to their victims? It absolutely is. Some of these murderers have committed heinous acts I cannot imagine committing under any circumstances. Therefore, I cannot possibly imagine committing or endorsing a morally equivalent act in cold blood. I have to believe most of us are better than that. And I sincerely wish my country thought it was better than that. > Every year, inmates get > college degrees FREE OF CHARGE which I personally cannot afford > because of the simple fact that I'm not incarcerated. This angers me. Me too. (I'm going to be paying my son's college tuition in 8 short years, and want him to get whatever education he qualifies for and wants; but yes finances do come into play here.) But this is a separate issue from the death penalty: this debate is over prisoner privileges (which have their positive aspects as well) and the structure of higher education in the US, not the death penalty. > My tax dollars are keeping the very man who killed my fiance alive. And this is a horrific injustice, and you are justly angry and bitter. Human justice, being human, does not right all wrongs. Nothing can replace someone's life, or the vacuum his/her death leaves in the lives of loved ones. Not even the death of the perpetrator. > If it were up to me, I'd have killed him in a slow, torturous method. I understand that absolutely. That's why the principle of justice is blind -- because we humans, with our own experiences guiding us, are extraordinarily passionate. It is one of our greatest strengths, and so doubles as a weakness. > However, capital punishment would guarantee a speedy death. It would. And there would be a certain satisfaction. But in the end, someone you loved so much would still be gone, and there is no way to bring him back. And you know that, and my heart does break for you. > I challenge anyone else who HAS been personally faced with such > decisions to fail to understand my point of view. I can understand it all too well. What I cannot do is agree that it is the best way to solve societal problems, even the most pernicious and dangerous. These problems in most cases started long before the murderer ever picked up his weapon of choice. The long before is where the solution has to begin. The death penalty just inadequately cleans up another one of our messy mistakes, without dealing with why the same mistakes keep getting made again and again and again and again. > But the man who sends a truckload of explosives into a building > full of people for no reason. The cold murder which was planned > so well it couldn't help but kill several, if not hundreds of people. These incidents, and the one Ross cited in the Ukraine, give me pause as well. I'm secure enough to admit that I don't know what the overriding morality is here -- I haven't figured it all out. (Big shock there.) Except that I didn't put even these apparently misbegotten lives here on this earth in the first place, and so I don't think I'm qualified to judge whether they should be eliminated. That's for some power bigger than me -- and no that power is not a government of other people like me. Call it God, call it chaos, call it random principles of physics thrown together -- whatever it is that landed us all here, I don't know what its ultimate purpose is, and so I'm not going to mess with its intentions. > So, this is my rant. Lynch me if you will, flame me if you're up to it. I'm not flaming anyone. And again, I sincerely hope no one else is. > You *will* ultimately get that which you deserve. That's what keeps me going, Arabel. And I sense it's what keeps you going too. Peace. As much peace as you can find in your painful circumstances, anyway. - -- Lori ********************** What makes a person so poisonous righteous That they'd think less of anyone that just disagreed? ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1999 19:38:26 GMT From: remcoat@aol.com (REMcoat) Subject: Re: Smarties (Was DC setlist...) >I really enjoy Sainsbury's Honeycomb bar, tis yummy i'm more of a fake fruit candy type person. like those liquid lollipops and such. gross, eh? they're so goooood love, mandy the 80's girl... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ j.a. m.s. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:23:15 -0500 From: KatieWow Subject: Re: capital punishment in what is essentially a propaganda film that i was shown on my senior retreat in high school (i was rather unhappy on the retreat, being the only person out of 75 who opposed capital punishment), i saw videotaped interviews with people whose parents, children, and other loved ones had been brutally murdered. they explained that they had initially felt exactly the same way you had, arabel; but they had been interviewed because they were all involved in crusades to get their loved ones' murderers off of death row. the level of forgiveness shown by these people is nearly unbelievable, especially when we think about how we would feel if anyone murdered someone we loved. murderers seem inhuman to us--how could _anyone_ have taken away such a precious life? but who are we to do the same thing? maybe murderers can never be reformed, and maybe they can. but what this comes down to is whether their life is worth less than the one they took--and it's just not. no one life, no one person, no one soul has any more or less intrinsic value than another. if someone killed my mother, i'd be angry. i'd want them to die. i'd want to do it myself. but that's emotion, and emotion doesn't work with intellect. if the world were ruled by emotion, we'd all be dead. that's why when most of us really think about it, we realize that killing another person isn't going to really do us any good. i used to think capital punishment was totally logical. my parents support it, so i always thought i should. i think the thing that really changed my mind was john donne's "meditation 17." while it says nothing about capital punishment, it says a lot about the human family. even if you oppose the death penalty and haven't read it, you should. it's really inspiring. well, that's my bit for the day. ~~kate - -- º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø "remember each and every day of 1999 how wonderful and glorious it is to be alive . . . " - --kevin hearn (delivered by chris brown in the first few minutes of 1999) "'how do you know, drummer boy?' you may ask. 'because i played the peach pit after dark m*****f***er!'" "it's kind of like camp or a rave or something." "i started to get self-conscious in my 1971 orange helmet, flogging a dead scooter." - --tyler stewart º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø¤º¤ø ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:45:47 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: capital punishment Vika Zafrin wrote: A bunch of profound stuff that I will, no doubt, take up with her in person at a later time. However, in part she said: > My stance: I'm not pro-capital punishment. I'm not anti-, either. I > believe it is never a black-and-white issue, and that to arbitrarily > decide one's stance on it once and for all is impractical. It is > wholly a matter of case-by-case consideration. In a vacuum, if you were to accept the notion that any one or any government has the fundamental right to decide the life or death of another (which I profoundly and nearly violently do not), then you would be right that each case is different and should be considered on its own merits. HOWEVER, we don't live in a vacuum, and as Richard pointed out, there are practical reasons why, appropriate for a specific individual or not, capital punishment must never be allowed. The risk of martyrdom is very real. The risk to those who are innocent is totally unacceptable. The actual measurable benifits are completely undiscovered (if they even exist). What is more, there is some evidence to suggest that capital punishment actually increases the overall violence level in society, resulting in more capital offenses. Certainly it is true that we in the US have been racheting up penalties higher and higher for the past 30 years at least in an attept to stop crime, but all we have achieved is the highest perecentage of people in prison in the world. Vika, you made reference to factors in the real world, money, blood lust, etc. Given the real world factors I've mentioned above, how can you support any capital punishment laws? As far as deserivng it, sure I'll agree with you that Stalin deserved it. On the other hand, what about people like Julius and Ethel Rosenberg? Most people in the US thought they deserved it, amid cold war hysteria. But they killed no one, and had they escaped to the Soviet Union, they would have been hailed as heros and champions of the proletariat yadda yadda yadda. Instead they are just an embarrasing footnote in our history, that nobody likes to talk about. Dictators, on the other hand, rarely ever die at government hands. Either they get old and die, or they are murdered by someone (usually a political opponant). In the real world, just because there are Stalins does not mean that we need a captal punishment statute; quite the opposite. By not finding a better way of dealing with criminals, we are lowering ourselves to their level. I feel the issue of deserving it vs that of carrying it out are really completely separate. Some people may "deserve" to be executed in the abstract, however, in the real world, there are enough negatives involved to render judicial homicide undesireable, even without recourse to the (very important imho) moral issues. A.J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:07:04 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Interviews at Colleges but they aren't necessary in any way. i never interviewed at dartmouth and got in. affording it was another story :). ~~kate - -- **************************************************************************** Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu **************************************************************************** nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight - --bruce cockburn, "lovers in a dangerous time" and so the problem remained; lots of the people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. - --douglas adams, "hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" we're splitting into two camps--mike, i'm with you. - --jian ghomeshi, bottom line, 1/1 *************************************************************************** Jacey7 wrote in message <19990210182741.29615.00000087@ng-cf1.aol.com>... >>>Are interviews to get into college a normal thing?<< > >I never went to an interview either, but I know that guidance counselors and >the like said that if you thought you were kinda on the fence for a particular >school, you might want to try and schedule an interview. It can be the >deciding push, and make you harder to reject than a faceless application and >essay. > >~jen > > >*~~~"Measure your life in love"~~~* > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:13:47 GMT From: koogle@clark.net Subject: Amanda's Campaign: Early Morning Rain on the upcoming album. In article <79v033$2an$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Marie-Claude Danis wrote: > Matt James wrote: > > > I loved Early Morning Rain, too, Katie. I dunno if > > they like Gordon Lightfoot or not. > > Oh they do. Who doesn't? In the "Früvous Mix Tape" they did on CBC once, one > of Dave's two picks was Early Morning Rain -- he told this story... back when > he was a little kid, he would listen to his dad's Gordon Lightfoot record in > secret and sing along and it would sound terrible :) > > > It really is fantastic, perhaps we'll hear it again at > > Frucon weekend (if I make it up there). > > *hope* *hope* OK, my hope, and now not-so-secret campaign, is that Early Morning Rain makes it onto the new album. Don't get me wrong, I like the new songs; I think that with Don Dixon producing, this album could be huge in terms of introducing more people to Fruvous. (No, not splashed all over MTV and everybody's new favorite band for three minutes like another Canadian band some of us know...) Given that, I think it pays to give a not to Fruvous' strong roots as a vocal ensemble *and* a nod to their Canadian-ness in the form of a tribute to countryman Gordon Lightfoot. Early Morning Rain could be that nod. It's beautiful, and no matter how much I like some of the new songs, it's my favorite thing they're doing right now; it's gorgeous and perfect. Maybe it's far-fetched to think this piece should be on the new album, with so much new material available, but I think the reasons I listed are valid. Thoughts? It seems like a long thread of "this would be a great idea!" on the newsgroup would be a good place to start the campaign. - --Amanda, you know it makes sense - -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:48:37 GMT From: "Adam Hartfield" Subject: Re: Amanda's Campaign: Early Morning Rain on the upcoming album. >Thoughts? It seems like a long thread of "this would be a great idea!" on the >newsgroup would be a good place to start the campaign. > >--Amanda, you know it makes sense I'd love to have EMR on an album, too. It's beautiful. Put my vote down for it, too. If You Only Knew is nice, too. - --Adam adamh@javanet.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:53:35 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: Re: Philly City Paper Troc Piece Mikey posted this bit of reporting: >He [band manager Jack Ross] said neither he nor the band wanted to make it "more of a >public issue other than what Jian said to his fans." So of course, the next logical step is PUBLISH JIAN'S COMMENTS IN A NEWSPAPER?!? What the heck was going through this reporter's head? Heather Moore ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:34:34 GMT From: chrisom@ibm.net (Chris O'Malley) Subject: Re: Chris gave birth to a DAT tape (was Re: Falcon Ridge Ticket Info) On 11 Feb 1999 06:31:01 -0800, Jason A. Reiser wrote: >MRS Doctors have certified the child is 100% error free. Chris and Vika >have decided on the name KAO Daten Kassette. This is pretty funny considering Vika is Russian and I'm Irish/Italian...Vee, when did we become German all of a sudden? ;-) >Please join me in congratulating Chris and Vika! Actually, Vika and I will be showing off the newest addition to our family during FruCon weekend. /me tries to think of something funny to say... Oh geez! I just can't do it... ROTFL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris O'Malley http://www.fruvous.com 'Tattoo Fru' webmaster@fruvous.com "I like being a pretzel with you..." ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1999 21:21:27 GMT From: dmandeluxe@aol.com (Dmandeluxe) Subject: Re: Philly City Paper Troc Piece << So of course, the next logical step is PUBLISH JIAN'S COMMENTS IN A NEWSPAPER?!? What the heck was going through this reporter's head? >> LOL! I was reading that, and it was... like... "HEY! Bonehead! Didn't you just... Ah....never mind...." That's in the same category as the Republicans claiming that they're upholding the Constitution. Uh.... HUH? Excuse me???!!! "HEY! Bonehead!....." ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1999 21:18:15 GMT From: toetappr1@aol.com (Toetappr1) Subject: Re: Philly and stuff.... > Ragtime is an amazing show. >Granted, it's no Rent or Hedwig, but they can't all be, now can they? ;-) I agree that it is an amazing show, but I wouldn't put it down by comparing it to RENT. Don;t get me wrong, RENT is another one of my favorites, but I don't think that they can be comparesd....they are too different. By the way....yes, I spend all day studying things related to musical theatre. Love Lesley (the theatre chic) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:46:07 GMT From: Mindy J Munson Subject: Re: A message from Jian regarding Philadelphia shes trying to start a ruckus! That would be a long thread. fruchild On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:52:50 -0500 "^kat^" writes: > >Jacey7 wrote... > >>NOW--- having said that: >> >>>>This is jian (brown singin'-drummin' boy in the band)<< >> >> really girls, how cute is he? > > >now, jen, don't taunt us like that... *grin* > >^kat^ >"downtown, >where relationships are no go..." >http://fly.to/the.midway.after.dark > > > > "I AM the band" -Murray (2/6/99) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: 11 Feb 1999 16:53:23 -0500 From: pirmann@panix.com (David Pirmann) Subject: Re: Amanda's Campaign: Early Morning Rain on the upcoming album. In <79vdli$f11$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> koogle@clark.net writes: >OK, my hope, and now not-so-secret campaign, is that Early Morning Rain makes >it onto the new album. I vote YES. A great song in any case, and MF's rendition in concert was right on the money. >Don't get me wrong, I like the new songs; I think that with Don Dixon >producing, this album could be huge in terms of introducing more people to Another yes vote-- I recommend to anyone who may not be familiar with Don Dixon's work to check him out. There's a best of called "If I'm a Ham You're a Sausage", and a good live album whose name I don't remember. He also produced bands like the Smithereens ("Especially for You" album- highly recommended). He also produced some R.E.M., Marshall Crenshaw, Wednesday Week, etc. - -Dave ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #143 ********************************************