From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #136 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Wednesday, February 10 1999 Volume 03 : Number 136 Today's Subjects: ----------------- This Totally 80's surge [remcoat@aol.com (REMcoat)] Re: all things [fruwench@aol.com (FruWench)] Re: Complete set list in order for Philly show here... [jacey7@aol.com (J] re: A message from Jian regarding Philadelphia [jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7)] Re: capital punishment [jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7)] Re: I'm sorry . . . I had to share . . . [Thomas Fazzio ] Low Cost Services. [MAWA5@aol.com] Re: Complete set list in order for Philly show here... [jacey7@aol.com (J] Absolute Lowest Priced Music On The Planet 5578 [Music_Reviews@Music_rev] Re: My 2nd Favorite Moxy Story [Lisa Schapiro ] FrCon II Trip [Thomas Fazzio ] Re: 2/21 show ["A.J. LoCicero" ] Re: capital punishment [thomas_taylor@bigfoot.com (Thomas Taylor)] Re: do not read this posting [katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin Luessenheide] dc and philly [mayalin@juno.com] Re: capital punishment [Chewbacca ] Re: Too Weird... (Was Re: Dayton Review (long as usual)) ["A.J. LoCicero"] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Feb 1999 05:04:20 GMT From: remcoat@aol.com (REMcoat) Subject: This Totally 80's surge is it me (well, it is, cos i'm the 80's) or has this place gone back a decade? pretty cool, though... >You know -- there's something about this post that reminds me of the >80s...I mean the mention of Philadelphia, TLA and The Monkees..... i love the monkees. davy jones is on my wall. oh man, why did i just admit that? oi... >Dood! The 80s rule!! =) > nah...they sucked, man. i hated them. death to the wedding singer, eh? love, mandy the 80's girl... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ j.a. m.s. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 1999 05:23:21 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (FruWench) Subject: Re: all things *hugs* I'm sorry I didn't get to chat with you in DC. Forgive me if I don't recognize you at FruCon, it was dark and I was distracted by too many guests. So smack me when you see me! :-) ladywench FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor . . . "For we can still love the world, who find a famished kitten on the step and know recesses for it from the fury of the street" - Hart Crane "Chaplinesque" ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 1999 05:24:24 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: Complete set list in order for Philly show here... >but isn't minutae-obsessed acting as a predicate adjective in this case?< I unbdrstand that the phrase is acting as a modifier, but the hyphen is only used when that phrase directly precedes (with the exception of other modifiers) that which it is modifying. In your example: "those of you who are minutae obsessed" the modifying phrase is serparted from its object by a verb, in which case the hyphen is not used. Really. I promise ;-) ~jen *~~~"Measure your life in love"~~~* ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 1999 05:07:20 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: re: A message from Jian regarding Philadelphia OK, i understand that having posted this, and his rumored penchant for reading our quirky little piece of the modem-connetced world, there is a slim chance that this following post of mine may actually get read by its subject, but i figure *I* can't even read all the posts here, so surely he can't, and even if he does, i never really intend on introducing myself as "jacey7" so I figure my thin veneer of coolness is pretty much safe in this venue. NOW--- having said that: >>This is jian (brown singin'-drummin' boy in the band)<< really girls, how cute is he? ;-) ~jen (who actually had a wonderful time on Saturday... completely) *~~~"Measure your life in love"~~~* ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 1999 05:18:14 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: capital punishment >>The cost of a .22 bullet is around 3 cents...... if placed correctly, it'll kill instantly.<< OK, I want you to go and find me *one* case where an execution has acheived this supreme cost effectiveness outlined here. My thoughts: I don't believe in capital punishment for basically the same reason I am pro-coice: I do not believe anyone has the right to dictate pass judgement on the life forces existing within someone else's body. I cannot make the assumption that any person is just plain evil, with no redemptive qualities and nothing whatsoever to offer the world, AND will remain so for the rest of his natural life, should he be allowed to complete it. Life is a sacred thing, and it is not within my-- or anyone else's-- jurisdiction to legislate whatever life and spirit that resides within you. I could go on, but I will spare you... for now ;-) ~jen *~~~"Measure your life in love"~~~* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:06:20 -0500 From: Thomas Fazzio Subject: Re: I'm sorry . . . I had to share . . . KatieWow wrote: > he will ask you out in 42 days or less, but only if you send this e-mail to > at least 10 people within the next few minutes. The more people you send it > to, the sooner they will ask you out, and you both fall in love. Do not take > this lightly, because if you simply ignore this, you will have bad luck in > love for the next 42 years!" Just wanted to add that my Mad Lib also included the mythical, magical number 42. Hmmm, I think it's time to reread my single volume 5-book trilogy. Anyone care to try that one out? later, tom. Thomas Fazzio Computer Science '01 Clarkson University Potsdam, NY fazziote@wckn.clarkson.edu http://www.clarkson.edu/~fazziote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:07:41 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: capital punishment and i'm sorry to object, but while that answer is quite simple, it's also quite inadequate. in my opinion, economy is far from an appropriate justification for the taking of someone's (in fact _anyone's_) life, regardless of what their crime is. capital punishment is as much a moral issue as it is a political one, in the same way that murder, theft, and a multitude of other crimes are. i'm sorry, but "kill them all" simply isn't good enough, be you a puritan or an atheist. how can the decision to end a human life _not_ be considered morally, regardless of what they have done to put themselves in opposition to the law? no human has any right to decide whether another human lives or dies; when an individual takes that decision upon himself and commits murder, he takes himself out of the framework of societal relationships. it is the responsibility of the justice system to ensure that such an individual is prevented from further endangering the lives of other citizens, not to decide that that individual's life is worthless. though my mind cannot truly connect issues of life and death with issues of economy, i too am certain that it is cheaper to shoot someone in the temple than it is to feed, clothe, house and educate them. that's fairly elementary. it is far more expensive, however, to sentence someone to die for a crime. in this case, the individual is likely to receive shelter, clothing, food, and education for quite some time before their execution, even barring the possibility that they may appeal, an action which costs taxpayers infinitely more than a life sentence. i understand viewpoints such as yours, but i feel that an economic justification for the death penalty is narrow, inadequate, and dangerously libertarian. while i understand it, i'll never agree with it. ~~kate - -- **************************************************************************** Kate Leahy kleahy@loyola.edu **************************************************************************** nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight - --bruce cockburn, "lovers in a dangerous time" and so the problem remained; lots of the people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches. - --douglas adams, "hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" we're splitting into two camps--mike, i'm with you. - --jian ghomeshi, bottom line, 1/1 *************************************************************************** Nate DeRose wrote in message <36C10E25.EE47EBB0@earth.goddard.edu>... >At the risk of making myself unpopular: > >I am wholeheartedly FOR capital punishment. > >There is absolutely NO reason for us to feed, clothe, educate and house >someone who is never going to reenter society anyway. > >If they have a life sentence, kill them. >If the question is expense, I'm willing to bet just about ANYTHING that >you can kill someone much more cheaply than it would cost to house them >(etc.) for the rest of their "life". >The cost of a .22 bullet is around 3 cents...... if placed correctly, >it'll kill instantly. > >I can't for the life of me understand anyone who is against capital >punishment........ it's just LOGIC, people! >Look at the amount of money we spend on these people with life or >multiple life sentences per year.... and then look at the amount we'd >save if they weren't alive! It's quite simple. > >ahem. > >Sorry to rant. >:) > >This is just something I've always felt very strongly about...... and >continue to. > >Adios, >nate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:23:48 GMT From: MAWA5@aol.com Subject: Low Cost Services. A) LOW COST MARKETING & PROMOTIONAL SERVICES! ================================================ 1)CO-OP MAILING: send a 5-line message (together with other ads) to 1 million general e-mail addresses. Only --------------------- $95 2)150 CLASSIFID ADS:submit an ad to 150 top world classified sites $20 3)SUBMISSION TO 1000+ Search Engines, directories, FFAs, etc only $20 4)SUBMIT ELECTRONIC TRADE OPPORTUNITY: promote it globally! Only $20 5)PACKAGE DEAL #(X):All above 4 services! Save $30!--------------- $125 6)2 softwares that automatically submit your ad to 150 classifieds $100 7)Exclusive Mailing: your own 1-page message to 1 million general internet email addresses. 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We thank you . ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 1999 05:40:31 GMT From: jacey7@aol.com (Jacey7) Subject: Re: Complete set list in order for Philly show here... ...and in a side note to this grammar-probing discussion, I actually do know how to spell, despite immense evidence to the contrary in my last few posts... ;-) ~jen (trying to keep her credibility in tact ;-) *~~~"Measure your life in love"~~~* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:48:41 GMT From: Music_Reviews@Music_reviews.net Subject: Absolute Lowest Priced Music On The Planet 5578 Absolute Lowest Priced Music On The Planet You find the lowest prices on all your music needs. See what everyone is talking about http://www.radiolink.net/musicreviews Get listed on the nets top 20 music sites or find music sites that intrest you. http://www.cyberjunkie.com/Top20 mnxpqhcudskgyzigrxsgmdkjsyobnhuevlxgryozlwmdpytgwnhgfywshncuhypdvuwfdsysmempwjdrdeyhyvqomjdiwmfzjv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:33:51 -0500 From: Lisa Schapiro Subject: Re: My 2nd Favorite Moxy Story Wow. Not only is it a great Moxy story, it's a great *Mike* story. I like Mike stories. :) Now, tell the other one, please. :) Lisa in Boston (Don't Mention Lisa!! I am *unspeakable.*) ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:38:49 -0500 From: Thomas Fazzio Subject: FrCon II Trip Well, after some scary moments, I have 4 tickets to each Friday and Saturday night concerts, plus 2 nights reservations at the convention Ramada. My reason for posting is that those reservations came only after a weekend of making reservations at nearly every hotel in the greater North American region. And my other reason for posting? Just to mention the fact of how cool it is to possess ticket GA3 #42 for Friday night and GA4 #42 for Saturday night. How cool is that, and ironic? later, tom. Thomas Fazzio Operations & Personnel Manager WCKN TV-30 fazziote@wckn.clarkson.edu http://www.clarkson.edu/~fazziote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:47:53 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: 2/21 show Pooh8909@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone else think it it really unfair that the BENIFIT concert on Sunday > is 19+? I would want to go even if Moxy Fruvous wasn't headling, just to give > money to a cause I believe strongly in, but I can't because I am only 16. I > don't think this is right in any way, shape or form. Jamie, this is a perennial problem at many venues. Most of us would change this if we could, but we can't. We couldn't when we were the victims of these policies, and we still can't now. As long as North Americans view alcohol as "Demon Rum" there are going to be silly laws designed to protect your virginal senses from even perceiving someone actually drinking alcohol. I'm sorry that you just have to deal with it, but there you are. On the other hand, these restrictions have nothing to do with your supporting any charity you see fit. By all means contribute to the OCAC. They'll be happy to take your money, and you will be contributing to an organization and a cause that is fighting to keep your access to abortion clinics from going the way of your access to bars. In sympathy, A.J. - -- "Life is so much simpler without sauce." - -- Lisa _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:54:05 GMT From: thomas_taylor@bigfoot.com (Thomas Taylor) Subject: Re: capital punishment Sorry to drag this out for one more post. I'm pleased (but not surprised) to see that Fruheads are mostly abolitionists. Follow-ups directed to alt.activism.death-penalty if folks wish to follow over to there. On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:42:13 -0500, in alt.music.moxy-fruvous you wrote: >I can't for the life of me understand anyone who is against capital >punishment........ it's just LOGIC, people! I realize that this is taking things out of order, but if this is in fact true, then you don't need to read further. If you are unwilling to hear and try to understand the opposing view, there is no point in discussing (and I might add, in posting your opinions publicly in a forum where they are obviously unpopular). >At the risk of making myself unpopular: > >I am wholeheartedly FOR capital punishment. > >There is absolutely NO reason for us to feed, clothe, educate and house >someone who is never going to reenter society anyway. > >If they have a life sentence, kill them. >If the question is expense, I'm willing to bet just about ANYTHING that >you can kill someone much more cheaply than it would cost to house them >(etc.) for the rest of their "life". The *fact* that it is currently more expensive to follow through on an execution than to imprison someone for life arises from the fact that our legal system does place a relatively high value on human life, and in an effort to at least not kill innocent people, there is an exhaustive, but expensive appeals process. It is these legal expenses that make it more expensive in the US to execute someone than to imprison him or her for life. While my personal objection to the death penalty is absolute, I understand that some people feel anger against those who have committed capital crimes, to the point of wanting those criminals' lives to end. However, I think that there are two questions that you have to ask yourself in thinking about the death penalty. The first is whether or not certain individuals should die for their actions. My answer, based on religious convictions, is "no," but again, I understand the position of those who would say "yes," like yourself. But the second question is "Do you think that the death penalty, as currently applied in the United States, supports the American ideal of justice?" I am pretty firmly convinced that even if you say "yes" to the first question, if you have all the facts in hand, the answer to the second has to be "no." When the US Supreme Court ruled against capital punishment in 1972, it did so because the death penalty's application was capricious and random at best, tending in fact towards being outright racist and classist. In 1976, when it cleared the way for executions to resume, it did so because it felt that the new sentencing laws that the states had devised would fix that problem. Now, in 1998, we see that that was completely incorrect. While the Supreme Court has not yet seen fit to reverse itself yet again, many prominent legal experts, who are in favor of the death penalty in principle, but find its current application to be a gross travesty of justice, have called for an end to executions. The American Bar Association passed a resolution in 1997 calling for a moratorium on the death penalty. I am deeply suspicious of a lot of statistics; while a very useful tool sometimes, they are highly prone to misuse. The fact that black people and Hispanics are executed at grossly disproportionate rates (blacks make up 35% of death row, but only 13% of the population), for example, while disturbing, could be just because that because of admittedly adverse social and economic factors, blacks commit more murders. But think about this: in 1996, of the 45 executions, 4 of the cases involved the murder of a black victim, and 42 (one dual murder represented both races) were of white victims, but black people are murdered at a rate TWICE that of whites. Apparently, it is the case that murdering a white person is a far more heinous crime than murdering a black person. Death row inmates are almost uniformly poor, without high school educations. Their legal resources are miniscule compared to those of state's attorney's offices seeking good exposure and high success rates. As demonstrated by OJ Simpson, it is possible for guilty murderers with adequate financial resources to escape conviction. I strongly urge you to do some more reading and thinking on this issue. I firmly believe that if Americans were well educated on capital punishment, rather than having it tossed about as an emotional political trump card, that executions would stop, and the US would no longer be the only industrialized nation still engaging in this barbaric practice. - -- Thomas Taylor Philadelphia, PA thomas_taylor@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~thomas_taylor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:10:15 -0700 From: katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin Luessenheide Salyers) Subject: Re: do not read this posting In article <36C0F106.BA6A1B5E@bellatlantic.net>, mopheads@bellatlantic.net says... > i KNOW that you know that the wrinkled guy from Columbo's name is Peter Falk, and > that he's also the grandpa from The Princess Bride. Which feeds into a thread I > saw going around a while ago, so this makes this a somewhat related posting. So > there. But what about "Wings of Desire"? He played himself in that. What a &*%!^! beautiful movie. And no, I haven't seen the American ripoff of it yet, though I may at some point. k@ I can't see you, compadre, but I know you're there ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:56:10 GMT From: mayalin@juno.com Subject: dc and philly Well, I have a *crazy* busy week ahead of me with schoolwork, since we drove from Nashville to see the DC and Philly shows. So I really really really don't have time to compose a review, although I'd much rather be doing that than this school stuff. :( What I can say was that Moxy Fruvous gave two incredible shows. I love the new music-- that album is going to be awesome. And I had a deliriously wonderful birthday. They sang to me (thanks guys!!!--I was one of the women turning 30!), and we blew bubbles. Arabel was sweet enough to buy bubbles, label them for my birthday, and distribute them to random fans around the room so we would get a cool bubble effect going. It was a great birthday. I met wonderful, fun people. Matt, who was nice enough to give us his floor, Anna, Kevin, Trace, Rob, Mindy--you are all of course welcome to stay with me in Nashville when they play here... as Dave promised and Murray more or less promised). And I ate entirely too much diner food. OH and the Troc guys were jerks. I overheard one of them loudly complain, "This is the most non-buying of alcohol crowd I've ever seen." I wonder if some of their rudeness was motivated by this....... But I had a wonderful time. Jian, you are unbelievably gentle and sweet. No need to apologize to me! Thanks, everyone!!! Mollie/Zainab ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:47:31 -0600 From: Chewbacca Subject: Re: capital punishment > >>Welly welly welly... > >>It's an interesting point, but some things (e.g. human life, justice) are > >>actually MORE important than money. Jesus, Josh. If I knew I'd be interpreted as saying that human life means nothing, I'd have mentioned that I lost my fiance in OKC. Arabel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:55:46 GMT From: "A.J. LoCicero" Subject: Re: Too Weird... (Was Re: Dayton Review (long as usual)) KatieWow wrote: > > my thoughts exactly. something like 30% of all inmates initially sent to > death row are eventually found to be innocent of the crimes. 'makes one > wonder how many people have been killed who really were innocent. Many many over the years, I'm sure. Michigan Territory became the first English-speaking jurisdiction in the world to ban capitol punishment after a person who was later shown to be innocent was wrongly hanged. We've had no death penalty here since before we were a state, and now so many short sighted idiots want to bring it back. Is there any reason to believe that the same tradgedy would not happen again? No it would. I believe murderers are what they are because they have something wrong with them, some deficiency of mind, or upbringing. What is our society's excuse? > also, > because even death row inmates are entitled to fair representation, they > often appeal several times, running up legal bills in amounts which far > exceed what it would cost to keep them in prison. i normally don't even > bring up economic issues when talking about the death penalty, but this is > simply statement of a trend. But you should, because it is a great argument. So many of the pro-death penalty people try to use this economic argument, but they don't even realize that the data won't support them. It costs far more in the end to execute someone than to keep them incarcerated for life. > not to mention the fact that the united states is the _only_ developed, > industrialized, democratic government which still has a death penalty in > effect, but that's beside the point . . . Oh no, don't mention that. We Americans are unique you see... Uniquly stupied and imoral. Good Night! A.J. http://www.essential.org/dpic/DPQuiz.html Here's a quize on the subject! - -- "Life is so much simpler without sauce." - -- Lisa _____ _ / ____(_) | | _ ___ ___ _ __ ___ | | | |/ __/ _ \ '__/ _ \ | |____| | (_| __/ | | (_) | \_____|_|\___\___|_| \___/ @wwnet.com ICQ#: 13117113 ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V3 #136 ********************************************