From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #127 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Tuesday, December 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 127 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: California/Leno [fgardine@uoguelph.ca (F. Gardiner)] Re: Holiday Magic [petit_chou@juno.com] Gabriel's Message (was holiday magic) [petit_chou@juno.com] IRC thingie [petit_chou@juno.com] Re: Happy Chanukah! [petit_chou@juno.com] A nice surprise... [Richard Butterworth ] Re: New to the group! [Chad Maloney ] Re: indie tape [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: [8 days of Chanukah] [Angie Armstrong ] Re: Indie Tape [kevin@mail.research-inc.com ()] Re: Indie Tape [Nate DeRose ] The only Art I know drives a cab. Now, about art... (was: Indie tape) [le] Re: [Re: NE weather] [Angie Armstrong ] from I need help to Saturday AM cartoons [Angie Armstrong Don't you mean *especially* if you're coming from a merchandising >angle? >Nothing sells quite so well as religion. Except maybe a Ronco Food Dehydrator, or Suzanne Sommer's Thigh Master. Those sell pretty well, too. Heather Moore (or the Suck Cut/FlowBe!) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:43:10 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: Gabriel's Message (was holiday magic) >Heather, I know exactly the song you're referring to. I've heard two >strikingly different versions... There's a great one I have by Sting, where his voice is just layered and layered so he's this swelling, haunting choir of himself. It's the coolest recording I've heard. (I just read that Drea wrote: "I do, though the only version I've heard is Sting's version from 4(?) years ago." That shows me for writing replies before reading all the posts.) Heather Moore ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:53:22 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: IRC thingie We hear he also owns K-Marts Is this person, by any chance, from Utah? My boss is from Utah, and he does an impression of "Utah-speak." He says things like "K-Marts" and "Wal-Marts" and "Val-a-times" and "Moudins." (i.e. K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Valentines, Mountains) It's the funniest thing ever. Speaking of work, when I was shelving books today, I saw this cookbook called "Bread and Breakfast" and you can imagine what I was singing all night. I tried coming up with yeast-related verses, but kept having to do my job (ugh). Heather Moore ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:43:11 GMT From: petit_chou@juno.com Subject: Re: Happy Chanukah! Chewbacca (which will always make me think of that song in the movie Clerks) wrote: >This is where I start sounding like Heather, I suppose? HUH? I'm too tired to think about these things - I just got back from work, and I need to study for MY FINAL FINAL! (French. No prob, really, but still, a final is a final) Why do you sound like me? 'Cause you're witty and fabulous and really cute? 'Cause people, young and old, look to you for guidance in all things hip? :::Heather stamps her foot in consternation and shakes her head furiously from side to side::: I don't get it! >At any rate, thank you and Merry Christmas to you Christian types. >We'll catch up with you at New Years. Shalom alechem, Arabel. Mazel tov! Heather Moore ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:08:40 +0000 From: Richard Butterworth Subject: A nice surprise... No frucontent. But hey, you weren't seriously expecting any were you? Well, well. After my table thumping rant about Jack Straw being unlikely to allow General Pinochet's extradition proceedings to Spain, he goes and allows it. Lovely Jack Straw. Thoroughly gorgeous bloke and an excellent, wise politician. As if I ever doubted him. Not me. Isn't it wonderful when you're really cynical about something and it turns out you didn't need to be? (Actually, I never got to see Loren's post about Pinochet, whether that was due to her or my server I'm not sure. Can you repost it please Loren? I'd be interested to read your thoughts.) Still, there are another three legal hurdles to get over before Pinochet finishes up in Spain, and it'll take years rather months as Pinochet can (and will) appeal at every stage. In the meantime he gets to stay in a luxury appartment under police guard at my (tax-paying) expense. Of course if he was an Eastern European gypsy looking for political asylum we'd have locked him in a prison for a year or so while we considered his asylum application, then rejected it and shipped him back to Romania. Sometimes life is so perverse it beggars belief. While we're (alright I'm) on the subject of bloated, murdering fascists, a London magazine has just helpfully published Slobodan Milosevic's email address. Its here... mailto:slobodan.milosevic@gov.yu just in case you'd like to drop him a line saying `Hello!' (I haven't tried it by the way, it may be a wind up.) Its very strange actually. What *would* you say to one of the foremost practitioners of ethnic cleansing alive today? I can't think of anything that really captures how I feel. `What do you see when you look in a mirror?' `Does the word humanity have *no* meaning to you?' `*Do* you manage to sleep at night?' I thought about it for ages last night and these are the best I could come up with and they're rather tame. I know what I'd say to my hero's if I could email them, but anti-heros? No. Strange. Anyway, writing emails in Serbo-Croat isn't exactly one of my strong points. Tinkerty tonk Richard - ------------------------------------------------------ `I was a rose in April and still a rose in June, I fear that come the winter I shall no longer bloom.' Kate Rusby - ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 1998 12:32:58 GMT From: fruwench@aol.com (FruWench) Subject: Re:Indie tape My 2 cents . . . Disobey the band -vs- destroy the tape. Thanks ever so much for that choice. I might return the tape to the band if that was what they really wanted. But I could NEVER destroy it myself. Even if they said it was lousy please destroy it, it represents a lot of effort, and I can't devalue someone else's efforts AND art that way. And since I'm here . . . Yes, a "civilian" auctioning off an Indie Tape for ungodly amounts of money annoys me. Mainly because I am hoping to get one from stamps. I would rather see him give it to a friend to convert to Fruvisim if he really doesn't want it. But it is his, to dispose of as he wills. ladywench crossing her fingers that Tobey will still have one or two tapes left at NYE. FruSpace - We came, we saw, we slept on the floor . . . "For we can still love the world, who find a famished kitten on the step and know recesses for it from the fury of the street" - Hart Crane "Chaplinesque" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:32:21 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Indie Tape Chad Schrock delighted us with: >If we didn't have used music/book stores, we would be lacking, >perhaps, the coolest stores in existence. Agreed. One thing I'm confused about is why the used stuff stores came up in the first place, since their schtick is to sell CDs *cheaper* than they would be new. Actioning stuff off is a different thing entirely, in this (albeit warped) mind. Vika Zafrin vika@ibm.net "The wonderful thing about Shakespeare is that when it's done well, it makes people feel smarter than they are. As opposed to dumber than they are. There is really no in-between." - Spencer Golub ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:35:27 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Indie Tape lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) delighted us with: *giggle* Pieta on its head would be a sight to see......... >There may be some pretty attenuated definitions >of "artist" and "art" out there, but I think we can assume that many, if not >most, painters at least assume they know which side they intend to be up. Not if they're futurists. Or abstractists. Or... I'm sure there are more styles that don't do representational. Vika Zafrin vika@ibm.net "The wonderful thing about Shakespeare is that when it's done well, it makes people feel smarter than they are. As opposed to dumber than they are. There is really no in-between." - Spencer Golub ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:06:22 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: NE weather Now chad's twisting things: > you started it! what names did I call you? chad? I *guess* that's a "name"... > > > Lori the Delusional writes: > > Hmmm. that does have a ring to it. Much like Ludwig the Mad, > Lori the Mad chad the degenerate. HAH! now *that*'s a name. > > or Charles the Bald, or Richard the Lionheart, > No comment. :> didn't ask for one. >> > Lori, take it easy on the brownies, dear. >> give me *one* good reason. > The chocolate is bad for the kitties. but *they're* not getting any! > scoshy? Is that one of 'dem 'dare metric things? sorta. >> > heyHeyHEY! I am irreplacable! >> of course you are, darling. of course. > good. glad we're on agreement there. :P //note to self: remember, Andrew didn't understand sarcasm until about age seven. :P >chad at radix dot net >Welcome to the land of the Fru and the home of the crazed Adding further insult to insult, he done stoleded my very own private sig! - -- Lori (feeling younger all the time ... pretty soon if this keeps up I'll be prenatal) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:47:45 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Indie Tape I sez: >>There may be some pretty attenuated definitions >>of "artist" and "art" out there, but I think we can assume that many, if not >>most, painters at least assume they know which side they intend to be up. > >Not if they're futurists. Or abstractists. Or... I'm sure there are >more styles that don't do representational. I *was* going to bring it back on the music topic, y'know. But that "send" button pressed itself too quickly. I had NOTHing to do with it! I didn't! Take music. Are members of Moxy Fruvous to tell me what kind of stereo system to listen to my copy of Bargainville on? Whether to use surround sound or turn it off? Whether to use the advantages of stereo recording or run it through as mono? Where to sit in relation to where sounds are coming from? In the same way, if I want to hang my (insert living artist here) poster upside down, I'm free to do that. But if I want to auction it off and not notify the artist, it's not okay. With me. :) - -v, posting and posting... last one for today. I think. Vika Zafrin vika@ibm.net "The wonderful thing about Shakespeare is that when it's done well, it makes people feel smarter than they are. As opposed to dumber than they are. There is really no in-between." - Spencer Golub ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:12:09 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: I've been away from Fruvous too long .... fiona treated us to: This is what happens around 1 am EST on #moxyfruvous when things get silly. Names have been changed and content edited (ie irrelevant stuff.. no jokes were removed) to protect the none-too innocent. Enjoy Fiona, thank you so much! I had a lousy night (up til three, then blasted awake at 6 am by a frustrated trumpeteer) but this put a much-needed smile on my face! What a laugh riot! I have GOT to get on IRC. But I'm *so* glad my chocolate-pushing proclivities have made it over there even if I haven't. :) - -- Lori, who really needs to get to the toy store and buy some K'nex and stuff, but this is *much* more fun. Fudge cakes to all! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:26:01 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: new to the group! Brent related: >The funniest thing I've seen happen at a FruShow was at the Calgary >Stampede (1993?), where they played two free days in a row! They were halfway through the first night when the Stampede marching band went by >not 40 feet away... I don't think I've ever heard of a band getting >interrupted by a marching band before, but anyway, after a good five >minutes, they were able to continue. all this happened right in the >middle of the "Gulf War Song", too... very surreal! Oh that is a juxtaposition beyond compare! I can just imagine ... trombones ... doofy hats ... big drumbeats ... and an a capella choir. Brent, let me again welcome you to this community of benevolent lunatics! Tall Chad, Brent's *already* found FDC. :) - -- Lori, who's now got Lee's Palace tix AND a hostel reservation... many smiles today! ******************************* "fru gud me sleep now" -- Dante B. Visit Lori's strange and wonderful world! http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index1.html (photos!) http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/sugar.html (Wilmington brownies and other delights!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:37:35 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: Fruvous dream Juliette Lexington wrote: > Then, Murray, still shirtless, comes over > to me and says that they (Fruvous) want me to do something during/for > their new song. A little bit of Columbus OH Ludlow's improv for you all: o/~ Semi... Naked... M... Foster... pounding railroad ties ~/o o/~ He's going the distance. He's going for speed. He's takin' off his shirt, for that there is no need ~/o And that's all I have to say about that. - Chad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:44:31 -0500 From: Chad Maloney Subject: Re: New to the group! Brent McNamee wrote: > I've been a FruHead since 1991, but I'm new to the group! I love the > atmosphere here! Hi Brent! Welcome to alt.music.moxy-fruvous. The Welcome Wagon doesn't have the steam is used to, so I'll have to do. Sorry for the funny hair. I just got up. Glad you like our little bit of USEnet. Make sure you set a web bookmark up for http://www.fruvous.com. There won't be a quiz later, but lotsa extra credit and you never know when Chris O'Malley is gonna add some information that will make your whole life complete, in a metaphorical sense of course. > The funniest thing I've seen happen at a FruShow was at the Calgary > Stampede (1993?), where they played two free days in a row! They were > halfway through the first night when the Stampede marching band went by > not 40 feet away... I don't think I've ever heard of a band getting > interrupted by a marching band before, but anyway, after a good five > minutes, they were able to continue. all this happened right in the > middle of the "Gulf War Song", too... very surreal! Wow, that beats[1] them having to raise and lower the soundboard snake in front of the stage in order to let a bus pass and a van pass by at the Phialdelphia Folk Fest in 1997. o/~ Here comes the truck. Here comes the truck. Here comes the truck ~/o - Chad [1] That's 'beats' in the most negative sense of the word, of course ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 1998 15:06:31 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: indie tape In article <7666eb6d.3675f684@aol.com>, Srm9988n@aol.com wrote: >> Cat Stevens. (Can't remember what he changed his name to.) > >Yusuf Islam. Right. Not Mustafa. Can't imagine what I was thinking. In partial redemption, I'll supply his original name: Stephen Demitri Georgiou. Regards, Confused. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:36:59 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Re: [8 days of Chanukah] ...On the eighth night of Hanukkah, someone sent to me, eight fiddlers fiddling, seven rabbis dancing, six grandmas cooking, five kosher dills, four pounds of corned beef, three golden latkes, two matzoh balls, and a warm bagel topped with cream cheese. OY VEY!!! Happy Chanukah!!! Merry Christmas!!! Happy Solstice!!! ROFLMAO!!! OMG that was funny! The instructor next door came over and knocked on the wall because I laughed too loud. That's a keeper! ok, back to reading (42 to go) - --Angie 32. "Some drink from the fountain of knowledge; he only gargled." - --Actual quote from Federal employee performance evaluations ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 1998 15:09:05 GMT From: kevin@mail.research-inc.com () Subject: Re: Indie Tape >Really? How? They've been paid. The existence of used record stores does >not seem to have dried up the market for new cds. Where is the harm? The >notion that an artist is hurt by the sale of used cds seems to me to be as >absurd as the notion that General Motors is hurt by the sale of used cars. >Should they get a percentage of each of their cars that is resold? After >all they did go through the work of creating the design from scratch. >Those designs are copyrighted, and many of the mechanisms in the car are >patented. Shouldn't they be entitled to a portion of the proceeds of that >car since the car is the fruit of their labor? the difference, in my twisted little mind, between used cars and used cds is simple. a used cd is identical to a new cd, but at a lower price, thereby undercutting discs which pay things like artist royalties. a used car on the otherhand is not identical to a new car. cars have a limited lifespan and people who buy used cars are making a comprimise in expected lifetime, maintenance costs and other such things. people who buy used cds on the other hand make no compromises. they are buying the exact same product, with the same expected lifetime, in the same condition, but for less money. I'm a bit of an idealist about silly stuff like this though, so maybe I'm just a little crazy. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:33:46 -0500 From: Nate DeRose Subject: Re: Indie Tape Mulder4213@aol.com wrote: > OK, I see what you mean, but I still disagree. I mean, another way to look at > it would be this: Using your example, 150 people have now heard and > experienced the music of this particular band. Maybe all 150 of them will buy > the band's next release? Wouldn't that be a rise in profits, thus benefiting > the artist? Exactly... The point is.... if someone gets sick enough of a CD to want to sell it, then what good is it doing the band to have it sitting on thier shelf, collecting dust, when someone who's perhaps never heard that band, and who could potentially LOVE them, could be buying that CD used, and getting hooked..... ... and then going on to buy the rest of the band's CDs. I KNOW this has happened to me..... I never would have gotten into BNL if it hadn't been for me finding a copy of Gordon in a used CD store...... remembering someone saying they were good.... and buying it. The point is.... I wouldn't have taken the risk of buying a brand-new CD for $15 and perhaps not liking it...... but for $6, I got introduced to the band, and subsequently bought several more of their CDs at full price, brand new. Just a thought, nate ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 1998 15:06:35 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: The only Art I know drives a cab. Now, about art... (was: Indie tape) In article <19981215000836.06548.00000653@ng-cd1.aol.com>, bodaceah@aol.com wrote: > I think there is a difference between having the ability to create something, > which is a talent, and art. In my mind art is something that should come >from >a place so far deep inside yourself that each time you give it form you >should >be giving away a piece of soul.To sell art would be like selling your soul. Art has many aspects and this can be one of them. I'd call "Johnny Saucep'n" art. Do you think it was dragged up from deep down within the collective soul of Our Lads? Rather it came from the whimsy and intellect. Not all art follows the romantic capital-A art mold that is really an invention of the nineteenth century. *see note >True art should be priceless. > When one has a talent they have a right to put any price tag on it they >wish, >whatever people are willing to pay. However, once this happens it ceases >to be >art and becomes a commodity from someone who has the abiltiy to create. I have to disagree with this. Art is what the artist calls art, and an artist is who calls himself an artist. We can judge whether a work of art is worthy, but it's futile to define ahead of time what is going to be art. Donald Trump writes of the art of the deal...who's to say he's wrong? Money and the transacting of business can be part of art. Example: there's a fellow who does realistic pencil renderings of currency. They are quite exact line for line, but they are in pencil, signed by him instead of the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Treasury Secretary, and only on one side of the paper. Part of the act of art involved in this work is the use of the bills to buy things at stores. Note that he's not trying to pass the bills as real, but that he's trying to buy things in exchange for an art object. I can't imagine an object being less a work of art, less beautiful or true, because it is sold. I can imagine many works of art which are not complete unless shared/published/shown. > I also believe that once you give that part of yourself that is art a >form >and express it, it is no longer your. If someone wants to keep control >of >their art then they shouldn't express it. Once you give it form and give >it >to the world it is no longer yours. This is watered-down deconstruction, isn't it? This is really saying that the meaning of something doesn't depend on the creator's intent, but on the meaning of the interaction between the object and its viewer. If it's no longer yours once you give it to the world as it were, why then can't someone sell it? Better still, if art ceases to be art when it's sold, they why would anyone buy it? You have to define human artifacts according to the behaviour humans have around them. > I consider Fruvous to possess both talent and artistry. I don't think >i >need to explain the talent part. However, the part that keeps drawing >me to >them is the artistry. Every show they do is a as if it were a gift from >them >to us. > They also have to make a living and i would not begrudge them that. >They >give us Frumiles, keep their ticket price extremely reasonable (who can >beat >free)and take the time to meet, greet and remember us. So art that's sold can be art but only if it's cheap? > Anyway gettting back to the point, art can be anything that comes from >the >heart, whether it is my 4 year old nephew drawing me a picture or a Van >Gogh. >My nephew will never have the talent that Van Gogh had, but his pictures >will >always be art to me because they bring tears to my eyes and because he >gives >them to me pure of heart. > Art can come from the heart. You leave out an awful lot of great art that comes from the intellect, from the religious impulse, from the funny bone, from the groin, and from a whole raft of other artogenous zones. Regards, Steve *note: I have a half-baked theory that I'll expose here just for fun -- not married to it. The romantic notion of art was made necessary by the rise of photography. If a machine could make a picture, then what's so special about painters? This also gave rise to impressionism and the retreat from pictorialism that continues today. It's ironic, but fitting that photography is also considered an art form when it's done with the intention of creating art, or even when it's just presented as art, even if it was created with the intent of creating, say, journalism. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:57:07 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: Re: [Re: NE weather] > > heyHeyHEY! I am irreplacable! hey Chad... now who's calling _who_ delusional? ;^} (this spoken from Angie, who just wants to fan the flames as a Rochesterian who has nothing to do with it, hahaha) btw, I wasn't knockin' SNZ, I just thought some of the song titles were... well, odd ;^) I've only heard one of their songs, but a friend of mine is absolutely nuts (sorry) about them. - --Angie, so easily distracted by funny posts "Everyone should be scared of the Bald Man." - Dave Matheson, 12/3 ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:51:17 GMT From: Angie Armstrong Subject: from I need help to Saturday AM cartoons owner-ammf@smoe.org wrote: Was it, by any chance, Reboot? If it was, it qualifies as Canadian content on the NG -- the show was developed by Canadians. Hey! My ex-bf and I used to watch Reboot on Saturday mornings. That was a cool show, neat concept! *sigh* I miss Saturday morning cartoons. There were a lot of cool but short shelf-life shows on... one of my faves (that which helped launch me into my anime/japanimation love) was one called Mighty Orbots... cheesy, but some of the animation was killer (the same production company [i think]also did The Bionic 6, an animated $6M man and his multicultural family). Anyway, there's nothing cool anymore, no inspiration to get up before noon. Speaking of noon... when I was in middle school and part-way through high school on Sat's at noon the now channel 29 in Buffalo used to show the classic cheesy monster movies (Godzilla, Godzilla vs. Gamelon, etc), and on Sunday's they'd show the cheesy karate-chops (Five Fists of Death, etc). I love those movies... I wish they still did that... growin' up was cool, bein' a grown up isn't. - --Angie, strangely inspired to ramble about TV ;^) "Everyone should be scared of the Bald Man." - Dave Matheson, 12/3 ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #127 ********************************************