From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #117 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Saturday, December 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 117 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Making a difference [vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin)] Re: Bottom Line shows [kpfruhead@aol.com (KPFruhead)] Re: Indie Tape [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: fruGifts ["Aye, who's asking whom?" ] Frucontent and "ethical" content [Juliette Lexington ] Re: Bottom Line shows ["Aye, who's asking whom?" ] Re: [My turn for Zero-Frutent posts - I need help!!!] [lesystemed@aol.com] NE weather [Srm9988n@aol.com] Holiday Magic [shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson)] Re: Frucontent and "ethical" content [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: Holiday Magic [lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD)] Re: groupies v. confectioners (was: another Pointe-Claire review) [lesys] Re: Making a difference [katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin Luessenheide Saly] Re: Indie Tape [Caroline ] groupies v. confectioners (was: another Pointe-Claire review) [Srm9988n@] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:03:51 GMT From: vika@ibm.net (Vika Zafrin) Subject: Re: Making a difference katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin Luessenheide Salyers) delighted us with: >Speaking of which, I was curious, since I haven't been to one of those >before - how does the "benefit" work? Does the band have a special fund >set up for the proceeds of this event? Does the money go to one specific >organization or charity, or several? Does it all stay in Canada, or is it >international? As far as I understand, each benefit is set up differently. The particular one Chad was talking about (at least I'm assuming he was talking about this) is the Fruvous & Friends For Choice benefit, the proceeds from which will go (as far as I remember) to Ontario area parenthood/abortion clinics. The following is the press release posted on FDC in connection with last year's benefit: - ----- Press Release: Ontario Coalition for Abortion Clinics The Ontario Coalition for Abortion Clinics (OCAC) was founded in 1988. It worked with Dr. Henry Morgentaler to set up the first free standing abortion clinic in Ontario, and challenged the federal abortion law which severely restricted women's access to abortion. OCAC organized a broad based pro-choice movement which held rallies, marches, symposiums and other events which actively involved women and men in this important campaign. As a result of these efforts, the Supreme Court of Canada overturned the federal law on January 28, 1988. OCAC went on to wage a fight against a new law proposed by the Mulroney government. This was defeated. Five free standing clinics were fully funded in Ontario, and clinics were established in British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. The struggle was far from over. Three doctors have been shot in the last four years in an attempt to intimidate physicians.The Morgentaler Clinic in Toronto was destroyed by an explosion. "Operation Rescue" tried unsuccessfully to shut down the clinics by physical blockades. Because of the need for more physicians OCAC is working to ensure that medical schools provide training in the provision of abortions. It does speaking engagements in high schools and universities on the issue. It holds forums and press conferences. It has mounted a campaign to maintain funding for birth control centres in Ontario, and to stop the hospital closures which will reduce the number of abortions available to women. The struggle for reproductive choice is ongoing. - ------ I cut and pasted it from this URL: http://www.fruvous.com/upcombak.html Which is the 1998/97 archive of Fruvous shows. *poof* Vika Zafrin vika@ibm.net "The wonderful thing about Shakespeare is that when it's done well, it makes people feel smarter than they are. As opposed to dumber than they are. There is really no in-between." - Spencer Golub ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 1998 21:43:53 GMT From: kpfruhead@aol.com (KPFruhead) Subject: Re: Bottom Line shows >Is it the case that Moxy Fruvous is opening for Dan Bern at the Bottom Line? >The tickets list his name first. I can't imagine a Moxy Fruvous show followed >by anything else. From talking to Jian at Katonah, I gather that they will alternate who's opening for who, seeing as the Bottom Line has them double billed. He did say that they would be the ones on stage for midnight, NYE, though. For you Dan Bern fans out there, he also said that definatly by the last night, that all five of them would do some stuff together! I know I can't wait! Ken ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 1998 21:51:17 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: Indie Tape In article <3672dc06.1054215@news3.ibm.net>, vika@ibm.net wrote: >>Two wrongs don't make a right, though three lefts do. We should spam everyone >>who's not a fruhead? > >No, but if he's trying to make money off of someone else's art, I say >let the f***er suffer. > So, what about Tobey? Does he earn a living? What about record-store employees, managers, club owners? What about MF themselves when they cover "Message to You", aren't they making money of the BeeGees' art? Make some sense. The guy has a tape he doesn't care about, but doesn't want to just give it away at some price way below what people are willing to pay for it. He knows it's in demand, but doesn't know what it's worth. What's more reasonable than to let people bid? Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:40:52 -0500 From: "Aye, who's asking whom?" Subject: Re: fruGifts Never worry about whether a gift to the Lads is too small or too cheesy. Trust me on this -- I've tried all kind of things. My first Fruvous show I gave a gift of pastries. You don't really need to fit such a gift to a person. Simply say "hey, little Fru-boy, want some... candy?" and lure them into the back of your van. Oops, wrong kind of motive... Second show it was piping-hot wheat bread. Since then, the bread thing turned out not to be the best bond in the world, as I started to seem weirder and weirder for offering food all the time. New tack to replace hardtack, eh? Rather than rattle off an entire list of possible things you could give, remember that the gift says more about the giver than the recipient. You don't have to overdo it -- after all, you paid to see them and you've bought the discs and such. Give something useful in a crowded van riding for twenty hours to the West, such as a blank steno pad for wiritng new songs. Give a guitar pick! (Oh wait, I did that.) Think about something else: who in the band, at the moment of the gift-giving, needs a gift the most? - -'Tis a gift to be simple, Dante ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:56:18 GMT From: Juliette Lexington Subject: Frucontent and "ethical" content Salut, mes amis! First of all, I would like to thank all those who so warmly welcomed me to the newsgroup (whoa. That sounded like one of those weird "Thank-you" speeches on awards shows). Frucontent: Has anyone else noticed that there are two versions of the back cover for the YWGTTM CD? Well, Monique noticed it and bought me a copy of the second version. She noticed it was different because, on the back picture of the guys, Dave is wearing a different shirt. On my CD, Dave is wearing this shirt with a red stripe and red letters or something. I can scan and post it later if you would all like. "Ethical" content (ooh...using a newsgroup for my own motives *grin*): Boycott Tommy Hilfiger. Why: He made racist comments on 'Oprah,' according to the e-mails I got bombarded with. Boycott Proctor & Gamble. Why: They test on animals when there are many cruelty-free alternatives available. Some products they make: Crest toothpaste, Sunny Delight, Downy fabric softener, Tide laundry detergent, Dawn and Joy dishwashing liquids, Bounce dryer sheets, Puffs tissues. Question for Steve: After reading your post about "pets," I wondered: do you know about the "They Are Not Our Property, We Are Not Their Owners" campaign? The campaign calls for a change of humans' attitudes toward companion animals. Okay. I'm done with my propaganda...really...for now. For further animal rights info, feel free to contact me, the new leader of H.A.R.E.M. (Hollins Animal Rights/Environmental Movement) at my school. Peace and love to all, Juliette == "...it's a hell of a responsibility to be yourself. It's much easier to be somebody else or nobody at all." - Sylvia Plath "The truth will set you free, but, first, it will piss you off." - Gloria Steinem _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:21:26 -0500 From: "Aye, who's asking whom?" Subject: Re: Bottom Line shows >I've never heard of Dan Bern, so I looked around on the web and listened to a >few lo-fi clips from his first album. Kind of sounds like Dylan. I don't know >if I'd enjoy too large a dose of Dylan himself. I certainly wouldn't enjoy a >large dose of lo-fi clips of anyone, so I'm not going to judge based on that. Ah, then the time for your enlightenment has arrived! Dan Bern is amazing live -- I had the privilege of seeing him live at Hamilton College about three weeks before the recent Fruvous show at the same venue. While he does sound like Dylan and is another Jewish lad from the Midwest (Bern: Iowa, Dylan: Minnesota), he is not a pompous freak set on annoying his fans as Dylan has been since about 1966. Dan Bern has two full-length albums available in stores and a six-song EP, "dog boy van", which is a good introduction to his methods. Once you get the Bern-ing sensation as I have, you may wish to order a copy of his 2-disc not-in-stores "Smartie Mine" or his cool book "Ted the Cow" from his web site. However, Iam getting ahead of a proper description. Bern's music nails certain modern emotions. For example, the song "Tiger Woods" is about so many things but centers on building the kind of moxie needed to get through life these days. Another popular track, "Jerusalem", is about a lot of things but mainly palys with persona in ways many musicians have forgotten about. Bern is great as a contrast to Fruvous. Our fave Lads have the tightest, most energetic small-stage show around but have to keep in group-mode the majority of the time; Bern is one guy and an old Danelectro guitar. Put them together on stage, and the possibilities for a Fru+Vance Gilbert Luxor-style jam make my mouth water. - -okay, that's enough, Dante ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 1998 21:41:51 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: [My turn for Zero-Frutent posts - I need help!!!] In article <3671b4cc.925265@news.ucdavis.edu>, nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org wrote: >I've not seen this movie, but it sounds remarkably like the story of >Abelard and Heloise, who lived in 11th century France. > [Nicole's erudite version skipped over; Samuel Langhorne Clemens's interpretation follows] But among the thousands and thousands of tombs in Père la Chaise, there is one that no man, no woman, no youth of either sex, ever passes by without stopping to examine. Every visitor has a sort of indistinct idea of the history of its dead and comprehends that homage is due there, but not one in twenty thousand clearly remembers the story of that tomb and its romantic occupants. This is the grave of Abelard and Heloise -- a grave which has been more revered, more widely known, more written and sung about and wept over, for seven hundred years, than any other in Christendom save only that of the Saviour. All visitors linger pensively about it; all young people capture and carry away keepsakes and mementoes of it; all Parisian youths and maidens who are disappointed in love come there to bail out when they are full of tears; yea, many stricken lovers make pilgrimages to this shrine from distant provinces to weep and wail and "grit" their teeth over their heavy sorrows, and to purchase the sympathies of the chastened spirits of that tomb with offerings of immortelles and budding flowers. Go when you will, you find somebody snuffling over that tomb. Go when you will, you find it furnished with those bouquets and immortelles. Go when you will, you find a gravel-train from Marseilles arriving to supply the deficiencies caused by memento-cabbaging vandals whose affections have miscarried. Yet who really knows the story of Abelard and Heloise? Precious few people. The names are perfectly familiar to every body, and that is about all. With infinite pains I have acquired a knowledge of that history, and I propose to narrate it here, partly for the honest information of the public and partly to show that public that they have been wasting a good deal of marketable sentiment very unnecessarily. STORY OF ABELARD AND HELOISE Heloise was born seven hundred and sixty-six years ago. She may have had parents. There is no telling. She lived with her uncle Fulbert, a canon of the cathedral of Paris. I do not know what a canon of a cathedral is, but that is what he was. He was nothing more than a sort of a mountain howitzer, likely, because they had no heavy artillery in those days. Suffice it, then, that Heloise lived with her uncle the howitzer and was happy. She spent the most of her childhood in the convent of Argenteuil - -- never heard of Argenteuil before, but suppose there was really such a place. She then returned to her uncle, the old gun, or son of a gun, as the case may be, and he taught her to write and speak Latin, which was the language of literature and polite society at that period. Just at this time, Pierre Abelard, who had already made himself widely famous as a rhetorician, came to found a school of rhetoric in Paris. The originality of his principles, his eloquence, and his great physical strength and beauty created a profound sensation. He saw Heloise, and was captivated by her blooming youth, her beauty, and her charming disposition. He wrote to her; she answered. He wrote again; she answered again. He was now in love. He longed to know her -- to speak to her face to face. His school was near Fulbert's house. He asked Fulbert to allow him to call. The good old swivel saw here a rare opportunity: his niece, whom he so much loved, would absorb knowledge from this man, and it would not cost him a cent. Such was Fulbert -- penurious. Fulbert's first name is not mentioned by any author, which is unfortunate. However, George W. Fulbert will answer for him as well as any other. We will let him go at that. He asked Abelard to teach her. Abelard was glad enough of the opportunity. He came often and staid long. A letter of his shows in its very first sentence that he came under that friendly roof like a cold-hearted villain as he was, with the deliberate intention of debauching a confiding, innocent girl. This is the letter: "I cannot cease to be astonished at the simplicity of Fulbert; I was as much surprised as if he had placed a lamb in the power of a hungry wolf. Heloise and I, under pretext of study, gave ourselves up wholly to love, and the solitude that love seeks our studies procured for us. Books were open before us, but we spoke oftener of love than philosophy, and kisses came more readily from our lips than words." And so, exulting over an honorable confidence which to his degraded instinct was a ludicrous "simplicity," this unmanly Abelard seduced the niece of the man whose guest he was. Paris found it out. Fulbert was told of it -- told often -- but refused to believe it. He could not comprehend how a man could be so depraved as to use the sacred protection and security of hospitality as a means for the commission of such a crime as that. But when he heard the rowdies in the streets singing the love-songs of Abelard to Heloise, the case was too plain -- love-songs come not properly within the teachings of rhetoric and philosophy. He drove Abelard from his house. Abelard returned secretly and carried Heloise away to Palais, in Brittany, his native country. Here, shortly afterward, she bore a son, who, from his rare beauty, was surnamed Astrolabe - -- William G. The girl's flight enraged Fulbert, and he longed for vengeance, but feared to strike lest retaliation visit Heloise -- for he still loved her tenderly. At length Abelard offered to marry Heloise -- but on a shameful condition: that the marriage should be kept secret from the world, to the end that (while her good name remained a wreck, as before,) his priestly reputation might be kept untarnished. It was like that miscreant. Fulbert saw his opportunity and consented. He would see the parties married, and then violate the confidence of the man who had taught him that trick; he would divulge the secret and so remove somewhat of the obloquy that attached to his niece's fame. But the niece suspected his scheme. She refused the marriage at first; she said Fulbert would betray the secret to save her, and besides, she did not wish to drag down a lover who was so gifted, so honored by the world, and who had such a splendid career before him. It was noble, self-sacrificing love, and characteristic of the pure-souled Heloise, but it was not good sense. But she was overruled, and the private marriage took place. Now for Fulbert! The heart so wounded should be healed at last; the proud spirit so tortured should find rest again; the humbled head should be lifted up once more. He proclaimed the marriage in the high places of the city and rejoiced that dishonor had departed from his house. But lo! Abelard denied the marriage! Heloise denied it! The people, knowing the former circumstances, might have believed Fulbert had only Abelard denied it, but when the person chiefly interested -- the girl herself -- denied it, they laughed, despairing Fulbert to scorn. The poor canon of the cathedral of Paris was spiked again. The last hope of repairing the wrong that had been done his house was gone. What next? Human nature suggested revenge. He compassed it. The historian says: "Ruffians, hired by Fulbert, fell upon Abelard by night, and inflicted upon him a terrible and nameless mutilation." I am seeking the last resting place of those "ruffians." When I find it I shall shed some tears on it, and stack up some bouquets and immortelles, and cart away from it some gravel whereby to remember that howsoever blotted by crime their lives may have been, these ruffians did one just deed, at any rate, albeit it was not warranted by the strict letter of the law. Heloise entered a convent and gave good-bye to the world and its pleasures for all time. For twelve years she never heard of Abelard -- never even heard his name mentioned. She had become prioress of Argenteuil and led a life of complete seclusion. She happened one day to see a letter written by him, in which he narrated his own history. She cried over it and wrote him. He answered, addressing her as his "sister in Christ." They continued to correspond, she in the unweighed language of unwavering affection, he in the chilly phraseology of the polished rhetorician. She poured out her heart in passionate, disjointed sentences; he replied with finished essays, divided deliberately into heads and sub-heads, premises and argument. She showered upon him the tenderest epithets that love could devise, he addressed her from the North Pole of his frozen heart as the "Spouse of Christ!" The abandoned villain! On account of her too easy government of her nuns, some disreputable irregularities were discovered among them, and the Abbot of St. Denis broke up her establishment. Abelard was the official head of the monastery of St. Gildas de Ruys, at that time, and when he heard of her homeless condition a sentiment of pity was aroused in his breast (it is a wonder the unfamiliar emotion did not blow his head off,) and he placed her and her troop in the little oratory of the Paraclete, a religious establishment which he had founded. She had many privations and sufferings to undergo at first, but her worth and her gentle disposition won influential friends for her, and she built up a wealthy and flourishing nunnery. She became a great favorite with the heads of the church, and also the people, though she seldom appeared in public. She rapidly advanced in esteem, in good report, and in usefulness, and Abelard as rapidly lost ground. The Pope so honored her that he made her the head of her order. Abelard, a man of splendid talents, and ranking as the first debater of his time, became timid, irresolute, and distrustful of his powers. He only needed a great misfortune to topple him from the high position he held in the world of intellectual excellence, and it came. Urged by kings and princes to meet the subtle St. Bernard in debate and crush him, he stood up in the presence of a royal and illustrious assemblage, and when his antagonist had finished he looked about him and stammered a commencement; but his courage failed him, the cunning of his tongue was gone: with his speech unspoken, he trembled and sat down, a disgraced and vanquished champion. He died a nobody, and was buried at Cluny, A.D., 1144. They removed his body to the Paraclete afterward, and when Heloise died, twenty years later, they buried her with him, in accordance with her last wish. He died at the ripe age of 64, and she at 63. After the bodies had remained entombed three hundred years, they were removed once more. They were removed again in 1800, and finally, seventeen years afterward, they were taken up and transferred to Pére la Chaise, where they will remain in peace and quiet until it comes time for them to get up and move again. History is silent concerning the last acts of the mountain howitzer. Let the world say what it will about him, I, at least, shall always respect the memory and sorrow for the abused trust and the broken heart and the troubled spirit of the old smooth-bore. Rest and repose be his! Such is the story of Abelard and Heloise. Such is the history that Lamartine has shed such cataracts of tears over. But that man never could come within the influence of a subject in the least pathetic without overflowing his banks. He ought to be dammed -- or leveed, I should more properly say. Such is the history -- not as it is usually told, but as it is when stripped of the nauseous sentimentality that would enshrine for our loving worship a dastardly seducer like Pierre Abelard. I have not a word to say against the misused, faithful girl, and would not withhold from her grave a single one of those simple tributes which blighted youths and maidens offer to her memory, but I am sorry enough that I have not time and opportunity to write four or five volumes of my opinion of her friend the founder of the Parachute, or the Paraclete, or whatever it was. The tons of sentiment I have wasted on that unprincipled humbug in my ignorance! I shall throttle down my emotions hereafter, about this sort of people, until I have read them up and know whether they are entitled to any tearful attentions or not. I wish I had my immortelles back, now, and that bunch of radishes. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:35:30 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: NE weather chad's calling names again! > Lori the Delusional writes: Hmmm. that does have a ring to it. Much like Ludwig the Mad, or Charles the Bald, or Richard the Lionheart, or Louis the Good ... so does this mean I too am royalty, and therefore likely to be related to the fabled King of Spain? > Lori, take it easy on the brownies, dear. give me *one* good reason. > We are "Just South" of Toronto in the cosmic sense. Not the > literal sense. in the *cosmic* sense, we are equally somewhat north of it. or slightly west. or a scoshy bit east. doesn't much matter ... it's close enough for government work ;-) >> which means we need a substitute Cchhaadd. Any volunteers?) > heyHeyHEY! I am irreplacable! of course you are, darling. of course. - -- Lori ************************* "When I am dreaming, I don't know if I'm truly asleep or if I'm awake And when I get up, I don't know if I'm truly awake, or if I'm still dreaming." - -- Forest for the Trees "Cache' dans les bras de Morphe'e je re`gne Ne'mo en exile." Visit Lori's strange and wonderful world! http://members.aol.com/srm9988n/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:39:29 GMT From: shazalinrea@juno.com (Mindy J Munson) Subject: Holiday Magic My family is so wacked! My mom and gma and I gathered around the tree and hung ornaments while my mom and I talked about our weight. She was saying how fat she was and I was saying "yup, just a regular chod." (yes, we do know what chod {or is it chode?} *really* means, but in my family it is interchangable with chunk). Then she said "Im the chod and youre the chodett!" "ypu, im getting chody. Can't wait to get my chody genes" Dont you just love family moments? =+) Fruchild, who has no idea why she just shared this with you ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 1998 22:43:33 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: Frucontent and "ethical" content In article <19981212215504.15269.rocketmail@send203.yahoomail.com>, Juliette wrote: >Boycott Tommy Hilfiger. Why: He made racist comments on >'Oprah,' according to the e-mails I got bombarded with. > This is completely false, scurrilous, and not to be believed. The comments he supposedly made were to the effect that if he had known his clothes would be so popular among black americans, he would not have made them so nice. The kicker here is that Hilfiger has NEVER appeared on Oprah's show, and that he markets aggressively to the african-american market, and must be damn well pleased that his clothes are so popular among blacks. Please follow up on these things before posting urging people to boycott. The internet LIES to you. Don't uncritically pass things along. >Question for Steve: > After reading your post about "pets," I wondered: >do you know about the "They Are Not Our Property, We Are Not >Their Owners" campaign? > The campaign calls for a change of humans' attitudes >toward companion animals. I'm vaguely aware of it. I'm not ready to become a crusader on this issue, I just get amused at the confusion engendered among people who can't understand where the question is even coming from. I eat meat. I keep a cat. I do philosophy because "the unexamined life is not worth living". I eat meat because (according to the only original thing David Foster Wallace has written in that big fat bloat of a book) the unlived life is not worth examining. I cut back on meat and avoid beef because I have heart disease. I don't really think this issue is ready for a "campaign". Welcome to the group (I'm hardly here a couple of weeks myself) and don't take anything I say personally. Except that. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 1998 23:28:33 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: Holiday Magic In article <19981212.173214.-4127151.3.SHAZALINREA@juno.com>, shazalinrea@juno.com wrote: >(yes, we do know what chod {or is it chode?} *really* means, but in my >family it is interchangable with chunk). Um, er, perhaps You know, but...what the heck does it mean? Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 1998 23:59:28 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: groupies v. confectioners (was: another Pointe-Claire review) In article <6fbb2411.3672fcd2@aol.com>, Srm9988n@aol.com wrote: >But allegedly there was a groupie in the 70's called >Cynthia Plaster Caster in LA (?) who did this. We must be careful to distinguish between history and the subjects of songs by Frank Zappa. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:01:28 -0700 From: katrin@dimensional.com (Katrin Luessenheide Salyers) Subject: Re: Making a difference In article <3672d8d3.235035@news3.ibm.net>, vika@ibm.net says... Regarding my question about the Früvous & Friends for Choice benefit: > Press Release: > Ontario Coalition for Abortion Clinics (snipped & saved for future reference) > I cut and pasted it from this URL: > http://www.fruvous.com/upcombak.html > Which is the 1998/97 archive of Fruvous shows. Vika, thanks for the info! I'd feel perfectly fine with my contribution going to such a worthy organization (or whichever one like it is the focus of the upcoming show), whether it's in my country or not. k@ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:48:59 GMT From: Caroline Subject: Re: Indie Tape Steve, ever-logical, pointed out: >The guy >has a tape he doesn't care about, but doesn't want to just give it away at some >price way below what people are willing to pay for it. He knows it's in demand, >but doesn't know what it's worth. What's more reasonable than to let people >bid? Point well made. I've been somewhat taken aback at the level of viciousness some people have shown on this subject... While I know that the Fruheads I've met are nice & generous people, I think sometimes we *do* take our protectiveness a bit far. Obviously not everyone is as, er, rabid as we are about the band, and therefore we can't expect them to appreciate what things like the Indie Tape mean to us. If he has it, it's his right to sell it to the highest bidder, as Steve said. He could've let us know that in a nicer way, but that's no reason to spam him. Ugh. Let's preserve some semblance of civility, shall we? Please? If I said you were crazy, Would you have to fight me? ~Caroline ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "toda la noche caminamos durmiendo y cuando despertamos eras intacta y nueva..." - Pablo Neruda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:37:39 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: groupies v. confectioners (was: another Pointe-Claire review) Steve (LeSysteme) clarified: >That would include the band members' spouses or lovers. Which is what I said in this ridiculous argument with Bro, and he said, "sure." The point I was trying to make here is, I don't think any Frufan I've met so far, including me or my husband, is a groupie. Ardent fans, perhaps. A loose sort of entourage perhaps -- we're not "with" the band, but we follow 'em all over the place and have a certain friendly casual acquaintance with them that for most of us can't really be considered personal. But it's certainly not like this either : > a groupie as someone who seeks to have sex with members of bands > just because they are members of bands. They don't ordinarily develop, > or seek to develop, any relationship with the band members, and they > seek multiple encounters and keep score. They don't fixate on a > particular star, but if they can't get the bass player, will settle for the > marimbist. Some don't even fixate on a particular band. I concur with Steve's definition, and it reiterates my point that the term "groupie" is just so out there when it comes to describing Frufans. On several counts it's just plain wrong: 1) we *do* have these acquaintance- ships, and we do enjoy developing them -- we feed the guys goodies, chat them up, have a beer with them, hang out between sets at festivals ... 2) if I'm not horrifically mistaken, MF enjoys developing this type of relationship as well -- 'cause, like, they keep on doing it, and encouraging us and newly Fruvoused persons to hang around! 3) we *do* fixate on a particular band (duh!). And 4) as for the impersonal sexual aspects, well, I can't speak for the whole ng, but ... it just seems to me like such a non-Fruhead, limited, calculating way of approaching, or trying to interact with, a group of really neat individuals! Are there Frugroupies out there? I don't doubt it. But am I one, or am I hanging out with them? I DON'T THINK SO. > Some collected plaster casts of the male band members' > members. This may be a myth; I've never heard of anyone > who said she did this, or seen anything > purporting to be a cast of, say, Leslie West. I've heard of this, but never exactly, umm, searched for the results. :D But allegedly there was a groupie in the 70's called Cynthia Plaster Caster in LA (?) who did this. I think she was pals with Pamela Des Barres, who actually wrote a book about being a groupie. One of about a bazillion books I've never even considered reading. :P //note to self: check out Urban Legends page re: this Cynthia person! Anyway, the general consensus I'm getting from this discussion is: a) the respondents don't consider themselves groupies, just enthusiastic fans and well-wishers 2) there is a difference 3) the difference involves aspirations and/or behavior that are overtly and competitively sexual. That's what i thought. Which means my brother is a dork. But I already knew that. - -- Lori the proud Confectioner (as well as the older sister who sometimes wonders when her baby bro turned into such an old curmudgeon. :P ) ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #117 ********************************************