From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #87 Reply-To: ammf@fruvous.com Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Saturday, December 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 087 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? ["KatieWow" ] Re: Nature Sounds of NGs ["KatieWow" ] Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? ["KatieWow" ] Re: [Re: Herbivore or Carnivore?] ["KatieWow" ] Re: Herbophile or Ailurophile? [Srm9988n@aol.com] Re: Distribution of wealth in US [bodaceah@aol.com (Bodaceah)] Re: Freebird/Skynyrd ["Arbie Fru" ] Re: a real spanish inquisition/ithaca setlist [nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@] Rambling... [Thomas Fazzio ] Re: Moxy Morals (and no it has nothing to do with inquisitions) [Lynne Fi] Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? [Eve Lauria ] Re: Rambling... [Lynne Fisher ] Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? ["Bell-occhio" ] Re: Moxy Morals (and no it has nothing to do with inquisitions) [Princess] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:05:29 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? don't quote me on this, but--isn't it painful for a cow to have a full bladder and no way to release it? isn't milking humane in some way? ~~kate ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:00:40 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Nature Sounds of NGs the blood of the martyrs will water the meadows of France!!!! funny thing is, i'm not particularly fond of "les miz" as a musical. "les miz in concert," on the other hand, is a totally different animal :). ~~kate ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:06:59 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? >2) Humans are the only animals that drink milk past >infancy and drink milk of another species...many people feel this is not >natural. not to mention the fact that the majority of the world's population is lactose intolerant. ~~kate ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:03:29 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: [Re: Herbivore or Carnivore?] >My grandmother(and later, I) used to fry up a mess of bacon and then instead of discarding >the excess fat, deep-fry bread in it. There's almost nothing better. Except >that it might kill me. Who was it, the mother in The Glass Menagerie, who said, >"Life is a casting off"? Well I guess I cast that off. the only nineteen-year-old stomach on the planet (practically) with gastronomical problems of the astronomical proportions this one has says "just the thought makes me queasy" :). ~~kate ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:00:21 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: Re: Herbophile or Ailurophile? Steve queried, I believe tongue in cheek: >>Do we have the right to enslave animals > > to be our comforting throw-pillows? Isn't pet-keeping exploitation? Of their people, perhaps. :) > chad sensibly responded: > > You don't have a cat, do you? I don't have any cats. But three of them own me. :) - -- Lori ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 1998 05:35:30 GMT From: bodaceah@aol.com (Bodaceah) Subject: Re: Distribution of wealth in US >Statistics like htese are hard to pin down. >1% owns 50% >1% owing 39%, >20% owning about 83%. >1% hold "more than 35%". > >1% own 39% of all wealth, and close to >50% of "financial wealth". >Not easy to get a handle on a number so easily bandied about. > I realize that these are just numbers. Statistics are easy to play with. They are merely to illustrate the point of the distribution of wealth. All in all it won't matter in the end since eventually Bill Gates will have all the wealth. Monopoly used to be such a fun game too. oh well, jude ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 05:55:13 GMT From: "Arbie Fru" Subject: Re: Freebird/Skynyrd I have never heard the Skynyrd original but maybe 5-6 years ago a Seattle husband /wife group called Will to Power had a pretty big hit with a medley of Baby I Love Your Way/Freebird and then faded fast. Wonder what happened to them and to Jane something, another Seattle product that hit big with "Don't Wanna Fall in Love"? - -- Arbie "Brassman" on irc Reply address altered to discourage spammers, sorry for the inconvenience. *new e-mail* afru@direct.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 05:53:36 GMT From: Srm9988n@aol.com Subject: Re: a real Spanish Inquisition/Ithaca setlist chad sneered: > Yeah, but the fact that they came back to Baltimore this fall > proves that they like us more. *witty comeback*. yes, I'm going to make a *witty comeback* right here. hmmmm..... I've got it! They decided, after a summer of cheesesteak occasions practically every month, that just for a lark they'd go Piscotarian and chow down on crabs! > > > 'Course, I'll be magnanimous with my prize and tell 'em to go > > back to 'Naplis, 'cause they're always in Philly anyway. > > Lori, dear, bite moi. :) But you just told me to be a vegetarian! Boy, you've got this cannibalism hangup bad, don'cha chad? - -- Lori dear, who figured that was much sweeter than the *other* snide remark she was about to make :) :) :) (And why is it I'm 36 going on 23, but around chad I feel like maybe 6 or so? nyaah nyaah nyaah nyaah. So much for the "feeling old" thread....) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:30:48 GMT From: "Jack S. Porcello" Subject: Re: To Herb or not to Herb? tehe=+) I have had MorningStar Farms products, and find them very tasty as well, but my all time favorite veggie burger has to be the Boca Burger. They are probably the most savoury vegetable pattie I have tried, and there is definitely less of a *gas* factor (if that is something you worry about!) with this product. I have also made my own, and find black bean paste to bring me the most success. And I do agree, the key is aromatic herbs, and, of course, *GARLIC*!!! :) Peace, Jack (vampire-resistant since 1972) :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:20:37 GMT From: "Jack S. Porcello" Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? Have been a vegan (2 years) and was a vegetarian for a longer time (7 years) and now find myself an omnivore, although I lean more towards vegetarianism. Nothing moralistic, nor is it a health issue with me. Just personal preference. I go long periods of time without so much as a mild craving for meat, then for a week or so I will enjoy a piece of meat at every meal. It just depends on what it is that suits me at the moment. I went to a small roadside diner in only a slightly larger than the diner town a while back, and there was an item on the menu that was called *The Cholesterol Burger*. Of course, I had to ask, and the response amazed me. Three quarter pound burger patties, five slices of pasteurized processed american cheese food, four slices of bacon, a slice of ham, and topped off with a fried egg. When I responded with a surprised look, I was informed that it wasn't so bad, though, because it was served with lettuce and tomatoe. Oh, and it came with a side of fried potatoes with gravy and melted cheese (most likely pasturized process american cheese food spread, of course). It was the specialty of the house, and all the regulars ordered it. I had the soup. Peace, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:12:42 GMT From: Lynne Fisher Subject: NYE_NYC Accomodations I don't have Bridget's individual email, but I was wondering if Bridget and Traci "Trace" have spoken? Seems you both need a place to stay NYEve. Lynne (sorry, Ill try to do this stuff off the newsgroup from now on! :)) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:06:02 GMT From: nicole.the.wonder.nerd.is@ana.ng.at.tmbg.org (Nicole the Wonder Nerd) Subject: Re: a real spanish inquisition/ithaca setlist On 05 Dec 1998 04:10:24 GMT, someone looking suspiciously like lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) whispered these words: >>Oh...fruvous content--I've been thinking that MF should write a humorous >>song about militant vegans. Not that militant vegans are laughable, they >>just need to lighten up a little sometimes. >Check out Tom Paxton's "Don't Slay That Potato". On his album "One Million >Lawyers". Do I get to be the first to mention "Carrot Juice Is Murder", by the Arrogant Worms? - --nicole twn - -- "I'm gonna be a pirate on the river Saskatchewan!"--The Arrogant Worms Visit Nicolopolis! http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~carlsonn Reply-to address is modified to escape the spammers... sorry for the inconvenience. spam trap: postmaster@localhost admin@localhost abuse@localhost root@localhost ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 02:33:17 -0500 From: Thomas Fazzio Subject: Rambling... Sorry about the post with content relevant to Moxy Früvous, buuuuuuut: Has anyone else played Live noise through Dolby Pro Logic surround sound? It's actually pretty damn good! (like, duh! of course it does, right :) Many CDs don't sound good in DPL surround, but some do, and Live Noise is *definately* one of them. If you can get the chance, take a listen. (and now back to the regularly expected, non-Früvous content) ummmmmm... to expand the little meat/no meat thread: Coke or Pepsi? Stuffed Crust or regular? Leno or Letterman? Boxers or briefs? Air Popped or microwave popcorn? (straining to think of more...) Les Mis or Phantom? Macintosh or the other? 1-800-Call-ATT or 1-800-Collect? Me? Coke, never had stuffed crust, Letterman until recently, none when I can, air popped, Les Mis, Mac, never called collect... there ya go! enjoy! later, tom. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:03:45 GMT From: Lynne Fisher Subject: Re: Moxy Morals (and no it has nothing to do with inquisitions) First, I wouldn't let the collective "us" make decision for you. Help you make your own "best for you decision" thats another story. The age limit thing usually has to do with drinking. If you use a fake ID it is false identification, it could be considered forgery, if you get caught you pay the consequences. Is fruvous worth it? Your call. ( I'd do it, but Im from the City of bodegas that sell 40's to 14 yr olds) If you do get into the establishment and don't drink, that would be less risky... If you do drink, you'll be violating the club/city/state/country laws/ordinances of underage drinking. Not drinking is probably an easy decision. Usually the establishments get a larger fine than the individual violating, but I figure it's all relative. - -Lynne > Is it okay with you >guys if fake IDs are used for the soul purpose of seeing Moxy and nothing >more? I plan to follow them around over the summer and I dont want to >follow them somewhere just to get "21+ *slam!*" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:52:53 GMT From: Eve Lauria Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? Kate asked: > don't quote me on this, but--isn't it painful for a cow to have a full > bladder and no way to release it? isn't milking humane in some way? And Lynne said: > milked... here is where I begin to wonder and doubt this philosphy or way > of life (which doesnt matter cuz I don't have to be a part of it) but when > I heard this about vegans.. I thought: "Um, cant drink milk, from cows > (etc..)? but um, won't they explode or something?" My friend Pete and I > kinda laughed, but seriously, females who give birth need to somehow get > rid of that milk if they choose not to breast feed. Like human women, cows must produce young to have milk. Unlike human women, they would never naturally refuse to breastfeed (udder-feed?) or the calf would die. You're right...the milk has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is into a calf. Also, human breast milk like cow's milk dries up after no one sucks for a while. That they have no way to release it is human-contrived. And I am sure it is uncomfortable. More thought: "And > wool from sheep, can you imagine the dreads?" > -Lynne Sheep have wool to keep them warm. Lots of mammals have fur. I feel like I've posted way too much on this thread. So for anyone who's getting sick of me, I'm going to try and shut up now. This may not be possible, so don't take it as a promise, just a strong intention. If you want my input, feel free to email me privately if you like. :) Eve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:15:29 GMT From: Lynne Fisher Subject: Re: Rambling... someone should do a fruFan profile page.. including all this stuff.. :) happy weekend all!!! - -Lynne- no soda, juice and iced tea, breadsticks! no pizza, Letterman, both boxers and tighty whities- cute butts, microwave popcorn, RENT?, computers are evil, ATT has become WAy too expensive, but they have kick-ass customer service! MST3K. ETC.... >ummmmmm... to expand the little meat/no meat thread: >Coke or Pepsi? soda or pop? >Stuffed Crust or regular? >Leno or Letterman? >Boxers or briefs? >Air Popped or microwave popcorn? >(straining to think of more...) >Les Mis or Phantom? >Macintosh or the other? >1-800-Call-ATT or 1-800-Collect? > >Me? Coke, never had stuffed crust, Letterman until recently, none when >I can, air popped, Les Mis, Mac, never called collect... > >there ya go! enjoy! > >later, >tom. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:29:08 -0500 From: "Bell-occhio" Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? I can't get online all day and this is what I miss. Figures. the lovely Eve inquired: > Speaking of vegitarians...lunchroom poll time! Who out there is a > vegetarian? Anyone vegan? *hand in the air* Vegan here. Militant? No. Ardent-no honey/wool/silk-type? You betcha. I admit it, I'll gladly tell someone they should be veg*an if they show some interest, but I don't go around pouncing on people. Eve made all the good points already, so I thought I'd just throw out a link here which I would encourage everyone to take a look at: http://www.veganoutreach.org/wv/wvc.html A very interesting read. Heather brought to our attention: >That and no Altoids or Mentos. nonono, Mentos are ok. That's Gelatine they're made with, it's seaweed based. ("eeew, there's seaweed in them?") Vegans need to be fresh and full of life too! (It always comes back to candy around here doesn't it?) Steve suggested: >Look for Morningstar Farms brand of synthetic meat-like things. I've heard some less than favorable things concerning the quality and cleanliness of their ingredients and... something about changing their sources.. I never got all the details. Mollie notes: >that's why folks tend to eat yogurt in the Middle East and India And we all know what the sound of hot yogurt is... Lace (cow-hugger) ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ nthrbns at netpluscom.com ICQ 218859 "And *do* you heart Canadian boys?" - -Ed Robertson 7/22/98 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:57:41 GMT From: "Jack S. Porcello" Subject: Re: Rambling... Thomas Fazzio projected telepathecally: >ummmmmm... to expand the little meat/no meat thread: >Coke or Pepsi? Cranberry Juice >Stuffed Crust or regular? Regular, deep dish veggie >Leno or Letterman? Letterman >Boxers or briefs? Boxers. >Air Popped or microwave popcorn? popped over a wood fire >(straining to think of more...) >Les Mis or Phantom? Miss Saigon >Macintosh or the other? PC >1-800-Call-ATT or 1-800-Collect? I use my calling card :) And, of course: Milk or dark chocolate? Me? Hey, I'm an equal chocolatunity consumer. Peace, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:25:16 GMT From: jkpolk@ntplx.net (Andrea Krause) Subject: Re: More Important Stuff (i.e. Hockey) On Fri, 04 Dec 1998 21:57:18 GMT, Alan Sigman wrote: >I do believe that "and the Leafs top defenseman has gone to the Jets" is >Mike's line. I'm almost positive I remember (but then I'm old, so I can't >trust my memory anymore ;-) ) Mike singing that line at the Phila Folk Fest >while wearing his Jets jersey. I was focusing on that line, because the only >other time I had seen that song performed was 2 years earlier at the Phila Folk >Fest, at which time that line was sung as "and the Flyers put Bernie Parent back >in nets", and so I was wondering if he would sing that line again, or what the >real line was. When he sang the Jets line, I said to myself, "oh, maybe that >explains why he is wearing that Jets jersey, even though the Jets don't exist as >the Jets anymore". > > -Alan, contributing far too many hockey-related posts this week, but staying > out of the religion thread > Well, I don't know about other times, but in Katonah last month they did the defenseman/Jets line and unless I'm on drugs I remember Dave doing it. :) (I have been known to be wrong, heaven knows. But of course the people that HAVE known me to be wrong have been properly disposed of in shallow, unmarked graves. Loose ends, ya know.) Andrea K. "I was your fountain of youth and you were my mountain of truth. But, you have drunk me dry and I'm afraid of heights." - The Nields ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:30:30 GMT From: jkpolk@ntplx.net (Andrea Krause) Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:05:29 -0500, "KatieWow" wrote: >don't quote me on this, but--isn't it painful for a cow to have a full >bladder and no way to release it? isn't milking humane in some way? >~~kate > > But on the other side of the coin, if we let nature take its course and have them just nurse their own young and then diminish milk production. . . I doubt cows were originally having a really hard time of it before us nice humans came along to relieve their burden. :) (If I seem grumpy at all, please excuse me...it's 5:30 am and we're trying to get ready to deive up to Pointe Claire. Why I'm newsgrouping at this time is a mystery to me. I think it's an addiction. Help me.) Andrea K. "I was your fountain of youth and you were my mountain of truth. But, you have drunk me dry and I'm afraid of heights." - The Nields ------------------------------ Date: 05 Dec 1998 13:12:10 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? In article , Lynne wrote: >My friend Pete and I >kinda laughed, but seriously, females who give birth need to somehow get >rid of that milk if they choose not to breast feed. It's not my impression that milk cows "choose" not to feed. Left on her own, wouldn't a cow just stop producing after weaning, like a human mother does? Cows do bellow when left unmilked, but a gradual weaning is probably bearable for them. Or have we bred them so thoroughly for milk-giving that their natural cycle has been overridden? Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: 05 Dec 1998 13:12:08 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Pet peeves In article <9b85d84a.3668ca94@aol.com>, Srm9988n@aol.com wrote: >Steve queried, I believe tongue in cheek: > >>>Do we have the right to enslave animals >> > to be our comforting throw-pillows? Isn't pet-keeping exploitation? > It wasn't really tongue-in-cheek. Philosophically, I think the conclusion is inescapable. As a practical matter, my cat says she'd like to be fed. Now. Pet-keeping is on a different plane from meat-eating. Many animals are carnivorous or omnivorous, but no other species in nature keeps pets. Parasites (including symbiotes, which are parasites that provide some benefit to their hosts, like the bacteria in our guts that help us to digest), yes, but the parasites seek out their hosts; humans capture (or long ago captured and "domesticated" animals to be pets. People eat meat because they need nutrition. In modern times, that's a choice rather than an absolute necessity as it was in some areas, but I'm not getting into that. At many times in many cultures, meat has been necessary. Pets are merely gratifications in the developed world. Work-animals aside (for where in the developed world are animals necessary for work?), we keep animals that we don't intend to eat as symbols for our vanity, for "company", or for more complicated (and less excusable) cultural or psychological reasons. We say we love our pets, and that they seem to love us, but do you really get to buy whatever you think you might love and keep it exclusively, regardless of its own (admittedly impossible to fathom) wishes? There is lore and lots of literature about "relationships" between people and their pets, but it's all just sentimentalism. "Domesticated" animals would now have a hard time if released into the wild en masse; that would be cruel. Universal neutering, while it is an invasion of the animal's integrity, would assure that eventually there would be no more domesticated breeds. It is possible that tame or domesticated animals have become symbiotic parasites in the "natural" sense: but we created that out of wild breeds At the end, I love my cat. I wouldn't give her up (partly because of what's in the previous paragraph). But I don't think I'd get another one because of this. I think people who are compassionate vegetarians (i.e., vegetarians who are so at least partly out of moral reservations against eating meat) should think hard about their exploitation of pets. I don't expect this to be taken very seriously by most people. By almost anyone, in fact. And it isn't a grave matter. But I don't think you can logically make a justification for pet-keeping. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: 05 Dec 1998 14:12:19 GMT From: lesystemed@aol.com (LeSystemeD) Subject: Re: Rambling... The one that really matters: Port or Sherry? In article <3668E1BD.96F2E2DA@bitsmart.com>, Thomas wrote: >Coke or Pepsi? Caffeine-free Diet Pepsi a.k.a. Pepsi Nil >Stuffed Crust or regular? Pizza Hut is an abomination. This should be "Not Pizza or Pizza" or maybe "Pizza or Chicago pizza" >Leno or Letterman? Who? >Boxers or briefs? briefs >Air Popped or microwave popcorn? popped in vegetable oil in an old battered out-of-round saucepan with an ill-fitting top. Were you all born yesterday? >(straining to think of more...) >Les Mis or Phantom? Barf. >Macintosh or the other? The rest of us >1-800-Call-ATT or 1-800-Collect? e-mail! > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:47:02 -0500 From: "KatieWow" Subject: Re: Herbivore or Carnivore? i figured that. but it seems that immediate end to the milk industry would be as bad for the cows as it would to the companies, you know? ~~kate ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:35:48 -0500 From: Princess of Monaco Subject: Re: Moxy Morals (and no it has nothing to do with inquisitions) > > Is it okay with you > >guys if fake IDs are used for the soul purpose of seeing Moxy and nothing > >more? I plan to follow them around over the summer and I dont want to > >follow them somewhere just to get "21+ *slam!*" > ok. i'm not sure who started this thread, i must've missed it. but..um.well..i'm 19. and on more than one occasion i've gotten into an age-restricted place with OUT a fake ID. (lemme think..yes, 3 occasions.) this way, i figure, i fooled them, they let me in, it's their fault. i've thought about using a fake ID upon many occasions and never did. once i just showed 'em my ID (it was in TO so i was only 2 months under 19 at the time) and the guy only looked at the year. whew! the other time, i just walked right in. and the last time we were allowed to have "parents" and i managed to aquire parents (my mother wouldnt be caught dead @ a show. my father would go, but would bitch about the volume the whole time) and they let me in. i never drank at the 21+ shows (and we wont mention the 19+ one will we phil, chad, fiona, MC, hKath, Michelle, Josh, etc..hehehe..."I'm glad they let you in!!") so i never felt particularly bad about it. but i think i would've felt worse if i had used a fake ID. but that's not to say that you shouldnt, if you feel you can, go nuts. dont get caught, tell me how it went, etc. those are just *my* minimal moxy morals. ;) later! sheryljean ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V2 #87 *******************************************