From: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org (alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest) To: ammf-digest@smoe.org Subject: alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #90 Reply-To: ammf@smoe.org Sender: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ammf-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest Monday, July 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 090 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: greetings from Alberta! [dacilen@bu.edu (Vika Zafrin)] psycho killer [wahrend@my-dejanews.com] Re: Talking Heads, and repeated band seeings (was Re: nyc!!) ["fraud" why should we say that >the government has the right to take away our freedom because we are living in >a corrupt world, rather we should say, lets make this world into a utopia so >these so called securities will not be needed. let each person learn that they >have the responsibility to not " randomly punch" people, rather than have a >government force it upon them. The problem with this is that we haven't learned how to do this yet. If we had, things'd be *so* much easier. "Don't do this because it hurts other people needlessly." - "Okay!" This is *not* a perfect world, and so far we haven't come up with a way to reach utopia, so we have to make do with what we have. You may *want* to say "Let's make this a utopia", but how would you go about doing that, especially if there are probably as many versions of utopia as there are people? It'd be neat if each of us could live in his/her perfect world, but we do have to communicate somehow. >objectivly, yes, i can see how we "need" the stickers, however, the need for >freedom far exceeds the need for government enforced censorship. Okay, am I missing something here? Is any group of people actually *prohibited* from buying records with the labels on them? That would be a restriction of freedom. But just as an artist has freedom of expression, so does the government. If Jack Smith the Senator wants to put a sticker on the wrapping of a record I buy saying he doesn't like that Bad Words are used there, he has every right to do so. If he tells me I can't buy it because he put a sticker on it, I'll laugh in his face. The issue gets stickier with minors. If the truth of the matter is that minors are not allowed to purchase stuff with the stickers on them without their parents, then the government is actually doing a good thing and forcing the parents to be responsible for their kids. If the parent/guardian thinks that the child already knows what f**k means and has no problem with the music, they'll let the kid listen to it. If not, the kid'll have to wait until s/he is over 18 - or at least looks over 18... or will have to talk to the 'rents and discuss this (which requires open lines of communication between the kid and the parents, but that's a different issue). For what it's worth, I just called the Tower Records in Boston, and they said that generally they aren't too worried about it, but if the kid looks "really young" - generally 13 or under - they'll make them bring a parent in. Sounds like looking out for others to me, not like restriction of freedom. >that american governmental corruption has been around since the very begining >of this nation, and that a tradition of inequality is very hard to break. In this sense, there IS no perfect government. No human government (on a scale larger than, say, a small commune) has ever had total equality. None. >it is >the wealthy who have always been in power, and who ( through pacs and >lobbyists) prosper in the corruption while the voiceless and poverty stricken >fall. That isn't true. Look at the revolutions of the 17th-20th centuries. If people are motivated enough, stuff will happen. That still doesn't mean that any one government has reached utopia, but things do move forward. I agree with the notion of there always having been a class of people in power, but I don't believe that it always has to do with money. In different aspects of our lives, the criterion might be the gender, sexual orientation, family's roots, or cunning of an individual that gives them power. Get well, Nora! Not allowed a 103 fever. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vika [VEE-kah] Zafrin Patron Saint of Caffeine dacilen at bu dot edu aka Coffee Fru "You and your hula dance of culinary delight..." -ceecee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:59:38 GMT From: wahrend@my-dejanews.com Subject: psycho killer The other day I was listening to the radio (something I do less and less of these days but that is a different issue) and I heard this appalling cover of psycho killer by some cheeseball garage band, has anyone else heard this mockery? (Don't even get me started on the cover of Policy of Truth I heard about a week back). Just thought that I would drop this in since there was a comparison going about Moxy's excellent cover of this song. "wild" Bill - -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:11:47 GMT From: "fraud" Subject: Re: Talking Heads, and repeated band seeings (was Re: nyc!!) >What's the other David Byrne movie? With John Goodman in it. Is that >Stop Making Sense? I don't think it is. Anyone know what I'm talking >about or am I just crazy (or both)? aside from the other things you were talking about which i saw and thought about hte estention possibly the other movie is rather amusing and i cannot recall the exact title either but i think its _road to nowhere_ or at least i know that they played that sond in the movie-once i remember ill tell you cuz now this is gonna bug me-for some reason i think it may have been titles true story or somthn like that-hmm...oh heres another post-grr someone beat me to it yes it is _true stories_ and yet another redoundant post oh well - -eric shultz ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 1998 21:51:18 GMT From: dot0926@aol.com (Dot0926) Subject: fruvous mix does anyone have any ideas as to what songs i should put on a "welcome to moxy fruvous, please get into them" tape? ( im trying to convert a friend of mine). mainly im having problems with what the first song should be... these are my choices so far in random order ( whoa, i sound like america's funniest home videos...) fly, the kids' song, ywgttm, fell in love, king of spain ( maybe), the greatest man in america, no no raja, authors, johnny saucep'n....thats what i've thought of so far, so if anyone has any suggestions, let me know nora ( yay! the fever broke!!) ************************************************************************** ******* " there's something exciting about the failure of modern technology to create a real looking fake human." - john linnell nora cohen (dot0926@aol.com) **************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:54:25 GMT From: wahrend@my-dejanews.com Subject: Re: greetings from Alberta! Holy batman here comes the rant... In article <35aa42a8.21725463@nntp.bu.edu>, dacilen@bu.edu wrote: > On 13 Jul 1998 16:31:46 GMT, dot0926@aol.com (Dot0926) wrote: > > >why should we say that > >the government has the right to take away our freedom because we are living in > >a corrupt world, rather we should say, lets make this world into a utopia so > >these so called securities will not be needed. let each person learn that they > >have the responsibility to not " randomly punch" people, rather than have a > >government force it upon them. > > The problem with this is that we haven't learned how to do this yet. > If we had, things'd be *so* much easier. "Don't do this because it > hurts other people needlessly." - "Okay!" This is *not* a perfect > world, and so far we haven't come up with a way to reach utopia, so we > have to make do with what we have. You may *want* to say "Let's make > this a utopia", but how would you go about doing that, especially if > there are probably as many versions of utopia as there are people? > It'd be neat if each of us could live in his/her perfect world, but we > do have to communicate somehow. Oh no... being drawn into a debate.. ahhhhh..... Somehow I find your logic flawed here... are you saying that because some people lack restraint we should impose laws that stop everyone from randomly puching people in the face. If we follow this logic to its extreme nobody should be able to say anything because it might offend someone else. What is offensive is just as varied as utopia is (from person to person) but we don't stop talking and I don't think its too unreasonable to believe that if we strive to not have people randomly punch each other in the face then we might be able to reach utopia (hows that for convoluded). > >objectivly, yes, i can see how we "need" the stickers, however, the need for > >freedom far exceeds the need for government enforced censorship. > > Okay, am I missing something here? Is any group of people actually > *prohibited* from buying records with the labels on them? That would > be a restriction of freedom. But just as an artist has freedom of > expression, so does the government. If Jack Smith the Senator wants > to put a sticker on the wrapping of a record I buy saying he doesn't > like that Bad Words are used there, he has every right to do so. If > he tells me I can't buy it because he put a sticker on it, I'll laugh > in his face. It not an issue of prohibiting someone from buying something its an issue of labeling something as objectionable because of some artifical standard. This labeling can cause your message to be heard by less people since it can influence a person's decision to listen to the music. In a less noble light, this directly effects you financially. I liken it to forcing a computer vendor to put a sign on his product saying "this product is crap" because I happen to not like computers and I'm the person that decides what is good and what is crap. > The issue gets stickier with minors. If the truth of the matter is > that minors are not allowed to purchase stuff with the stickers on > them without their parents, then the government is actually doing a > good thing and forcing the parents to be responsible for their kids. I don't follow this logic at all. How does this force a parent to be responsible for their kid? If parents were doing their job then you probably wouldn't have to worry about your child going to a record store and buying objectionable material. Kind of like the parents who use the computer as a baby sitter and then are astonished by all the flith there is on the internet. We should label all the internet sites, that will save our kids! Whats next? I'll have wear a bright orange shirt with black letters saying, beware this guy has radical views. > If the parent/guardian thinks that the child already knows what f**k > means and has no problem with the music, they'll let the kid listen to > it. If not, the kid'll have to wait until s/he is over 18 - or at > least looks over 18... or will have to talk to the 'rents and discuss > this (which requires open lines of communication between the kid and > the parents, but that's a different issue). So, if the kid looks over 18 then the government isn't doing its job of making parents responsible for their kids. And if the parents are ok with kids listening to music with f**k in it, what does he do, bring a note from mom to the music store saying that he can listen to Live Noise? I say if you want make parents responsible for their kids, have them spend time in jail for them if they shoplift or download pornography over the internet. I think that would make parents educate their kids really fast. Education not censorship. > For what it's worth, I just called the Tower Records in Boston, and > they said that generally they aren't too worried about it, but if the > kid looks "really young" - generally 13 or under - they'll make them > bring a parent in. Sounds like looking out for others to me, not like > restriction of freedom. Tell that to the scared teenager who has to ask her mom to go to planned parenthood or a rape victim that she can't have an abortion because its against her parent's religion. Extreme cases, yes, but still cases. I shant go on... if I follow this road it will lead to madness.... "wild" Bill (needs sleep...) - -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ------------------------------ End of alt.music.moxy-fruvous digest V1 #90 *******************************************