From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V3 #243 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Sunday, September 13 1998 Volume 03 : Number 243 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: Vinyl ["Keith Stansell" ] Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc ["Michael and Denise Luckey" ] Re: Alloy: Vinyl [Eclipse ] Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... [MacS] Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc [Chris Cracknell ] Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc [Chris Cracknell ] Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc [Chris Cracknell ] Re: Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... [] Re: Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... [] Re: Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... [] Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc [Eclipse ] Alloy: Cioppino... [Eclipse ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:50:54 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Vinyl Hi everyone, I'm back from Louisiana and catching up. I think the problem with the dismal state of the music on the charts have to do with demographics. The Boomers are making Celine Dion and Elton John big, and their kids are making all these bubblegum pop contrived things popular. We are the Baby Busters, small in numbers, unable to make an influence. I've been having trouble finding things that are new that I like myself. One band that I've found does it for me lately is Radiohead. Their first big hit "Creep" was more grunge than most of the bands work. I highly suggest you give "Ok Computer" and "The Bends" a listen. Both get a lot of play in my stereo. - -Keith - -----Original Message----- From: TBlagg@aol.com To: alloy@smoe.org Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 4:09 AM Subject: Re: Alloy: Vinyl > >Yeh Michael, > >Pet Shop Boys, and all that 80's retro stuff gives me the Buzz. I feel really >old saying this but,"they don't make 'em like they used to" > >The kids of today, hughhhhh. The charts these days are full of boy/girl bands >who just stand and sing someone elses song, wothout playing an instrument or >.......no I'll stop there before I offend anyone! > >God, I sound like my dad! I'm only 28, but I feel eternally glued to this era. >There are one or two acts out there that occasionally spark my goolies such as >pulp (who write and perform all their own stuff) but nothing In my view beats >the good old Howard Jones, Pet Shop Boys, Yazoo, Duran, Spandau, Nick Kershaw >and of course our very own Mr Robertson to name but a few. > >I must admit that although I love alot of what Gary Numan did or is doing, for >some reason I never purchased much of his stuff. I have the odd single though >somewhere! > >Incidentally, the best live band I have seen over the past few years was Duran >Duran (NOT a biased opinion). They are still going and recording some >excellent stuff. Check out The Wedding Album & Meddazzaland! > >Regards, > >Trev B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:09:49 -0700 From: "Michael and Denise Luckey" Subject: Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc Interesting topic here! Tell me, isn't there an 'Alien" 2600 game? I thought I read about it being somewhat rare awhile back and I have never seen it if it exists. The thrift stores in this area have tons of these games available along with other '80's memorabilia. I even saw a "Thriller" style Michael Jackson jacket from the video at one the other day. Almost bought it too! M.L. - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Cracknell To: alloy@smoe.org Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 10:12 PM Subject: Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc > >In article , you wrote: > >>Crackers & other Atari geeks, my mom sent me some old (as she put it) >>"junk" that she thought I might enjoy. Guess what was among the stuff! >>My old Atari 2600 from when I was 13! But, I don't know if it works, as >>someone chewed a wire and broke it, and she sent no games. Where shall I >>pick up a game or two? There aren't any flea markets around here that I >>know of. Buried somewhere at her house is Breakout, Pong, Space Invaders, >>Pac-Man, and a bunch of other games from the early 80's. Anyway I thought >>you'd be amused. >~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ^~ > >Salvation Army, Goodwill, and Value Village are all very good sources of >Atari 2600 games. What wire broke? Is it the powersupply? If so a 9v 500ma, >positive Tip 1/8" plug powersupply from radioshack will do the trick. >If it's a joystick then you'll have to find a new one or replace/repair >the cable. The 3 button sega Genesis controllers will work on the 2600 >(the six button ones will not). If you want some classic games in the >meanwhile for your 2600, just send me your Snail Mail address and I'll send >you some of my trade fodder OCs (OC is a collector's term for >O.bnoxiously C.ommon - Carts are rated from OC to UR (U.believably R.are) >and the value of the carts is determined by it's rarity (and condition) >so they run the gammit from being worth 25 cents to $250 (some carts will >even fetch over $500 US)). > >The thrift shops I mentioned should have a whack of joysticks. And if it's >the RF modulator cable that's busted (cable that runs to the TV) then >you can open up the machine and replace it with a simple, shielded RCA >cable (or splice the old one back together). If you're a super geek (like me) >you can do what I did. Open up the machine and modify it to give seperate >audio and video outputs. I have a few of mine hooked up to old Commodore >1702 colour composite monitors that I got at the thrifts for $10. > >The 1702 and 1701 composite monitors are the best for hooking up to the >2600. Provided you leave the monitors on all the time (or let them warm >up for some time before powering on the 2600) you'll be able to get away >without using a video amp. Otherwise you'll need to build a video amp >to boost the gain or you'll lose sync. > >A websearch of "Atari 2600" will likely lead you to more information than >you could ever imagine existed. And if you'd like to try your hand at >programming the 2600 (6507 Machine Language) then give the >Stella (pre-production codename for the 2600. Way back when Atari used to >codename their products after large breasted female employees) email list >a try. > >The Apple is a perfect machine for developing 2600 games on. Infact it's >the one that was most often used. If you get a Supercharger (a device that >plugs into the 2600s cartridge port and lets you load games off cassette) >then you're all set. You can plug it right into the cassette out port on >the apple and if you save programs to tape it will send it right to the >Supercharger and into the Atari (the Supercharger uses the same audio >format that Apple cassettes used. Infact it was purposefully designed that >way to make it easier to create games). The Supercharger is an invaluable >tool for 2600 programming. You can still get them new in the shrinkwrap. >Just post a message on rec.games.video.classic (excellent newsgroup for >all classic video game machines) asking for a Supercharger and you'll >probably get a reply from a guy named Dan who has a whack of them. > >The stella E-mail list is stella@biglist.com, but I the address to >subscribe is something else. There's a Stella archive on the web that you >should be able to find with the search "biglist.com" "Stella" "archive" >and "atari 2600". This list is really great. There's a lot of very talented >programmers there. (The late Jim Nitchals, former Headspace consultant and >Electronics Arts programmer used to hang out there.) > > >Let me know if you want some games. Be careful though, it's a hobby that's >really easy to get sucked into. It's great being able to fulfill a childhood >fantasy of owning over 100 Atari games and not having to spend much money >to do it. Plus some of the games are still absolutely fantastic to play >(Seaquest, Spider Fighter, Kaboom, and Warlords with 4 players to name a few). > > CRACKERS > (Lock 'N Chase addict from hell!!) > >-- > >Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan >*** http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base *** >*** http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo | Hozer Video Games *** >Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:16:42 -0600 From: "Keith Stansell" Subject: Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc Welcome Jeannie and Guy, you are no longer alone. Here's my contributions to geekdom: Had the Atari 2600, now have an emulator on my PC. I started programming with a Commodore Vic=20, moved up the line with the 64, and I still have a working Commodore 128 with an Okimate 10 printer in my closet. When in high school (class of 85) I created a robot with an erector set that was controlled by my Commodore 64. It was capable of distinguishing a block from a die and putting one to the left, and the other on the right. I entered this in the science fair and went all the way to the State competition with it. (I skipped my Jr. prom to go to the State science fair-big time geek action) Later geek interests include Stereographic photography. I have three 3-D cameras (two newer and one from the 50's) I made some great 3-D photos of Yellowstone and modified a view-master to make a slide viewer for the pictures. That's about it. Yep, I'm a geek, but Crackers, you are definitely the king of all geeks. Way to go man! - -Keith gooble gobble ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 03:59:24 -0700 From: Eclipse Subject: Re: Alloy: Vinyl Keith Stansell wrote: > > Hi everyone, I'm back from Louisiana and catching up. > > I think the problem with the dismal state of the music on the charts have to > do with demographics. The Boomers are making Celine Dion and Elton John > big, and their kids are making all these bubblegum pop contrived things > popular. > > We are the Baby Busters, small in numbers, unable to make an influence. William Strauss & Neil Howe (authors of "Generations", "The Fourth Turning" about their cyclic generational theory) titled you the "13ers" since you're the 13th american generation and a rather hardluck lot overall, and probably sick of being named in relation to the Boomers. You're actually a larger generation than the Boomers, some eighty million strong. > I've been having trouble finding things that are new that I like myself. > One band that I've found does it for me lately is Radiohead. Their first > big hit "Creep" was more grunge than most of the bands work. I highly > suggest you give "Ok Computer" and "The Bends" a listen. Both get a lot of > play in my stereo. I'll look into it... I miss 80s pop meself, though I didn't really hear much of it the first time round! -- E(lipse ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:56:14 -0400 From: MacSuirtain Subject: Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... I had no one else to turn to in my time of need, so y'all get this ridiculous question... Have any of you ever tried to make/use iron-on t-shirt transfers with an inkjet printer? Right before resigning the Crappy Job(TM), I bought a nifty little UMAX scanner, and I've been having fun with it. Since I'm off shortly to Omaha for Mom's WWII pilots' reunion, I thought I'd make t-shirts for Mom, me, and a couple of my siblings who'll also be going. I have this totally cool photo of Mom in her flight leathers, which I've been messing around with in PhotoDeluxe (guess that would be the VERY poor man's PhotoShop, eh?) and turned it into the swingingest charcoal/pencil sketch. It would look damn cool on a shirt, I think. I'd just like to know if anyone's tried this stuff. I'm sure the end product is a wee bit lame, but, for a small-brainer like me, it'll probably be okay. (Nothing can compare with my Alloy sweatshirt, though.) Does altering 50+ year old photos of your mother (dressed in leather) on the computer make you a geek (while listening to Yemenite Jewish folk music)? If so, count me in. Anyone else watching all the Planet of the Apes films on AMC this week? What a kick! Who would have ever thought any of those films would eventually be touted as "American movie classics." I'm happy because I'd rather watch Roddy MacDowell in bad makeup than be exposed to more of the... uh... "local Washington news." I'll be at church tomorrow sitting in my usual space two rows behind President Clinton. I wonder whether or not the little blue-haired ladies who are always so eager to give him bear hugs will be as affectionate this week... I have this vision of ice crystals forming in the pew between Bill and Hillary. Oy. There is always a protest group outside the church for Clinton's arrival, but I have a feeling tomorrow is going to be a doozy. (BTW, the church is Foundry United Methodist -- I'm not Methodist, but the minister is a tremendous public speaker who tells really amazing stories, and the church choir features some of the finest voices in the Washington area singing some of the most complex and GORGEOUS choral music ever written. Good music really can elevate me somewhere else.) To quote Chuck Heston: "It's a madhouse! A madhouse!" Hope you're all enjoying the weekend, Melissa, Lapsed Cafeteria Catholic and Queen of the Non Sequitor Transition This message powered by the soundtrack to Raiders of the Lost Ark. John Williams is God. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:43:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc In article <013901bdde79$7f5aad20$48aa9bcf@KeithStansell>, you wrote: >When in high school (class of 85) I created a robot with an erector set that >was controlled by my Commodore 64. It was capable of distinguishing a block >from a die and putting one to the left, and the other on the right. I >entered this in the science fair and went all the way to the State >competition with it. (I skipped my Jr. prom to go to the State science >fair-big time geek action) ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ I dub thee Sir Keith, Duke of Geekdom. Arise Sir Keith. Incidently, on the subject of teenaged roboticists.... When I was 14 I built a really cool K-9 (ala Dr. Who) out of some galvanized sheet metal (my uncle had some left over after fixing his roof). He had a wired control and could flash his eye, spin his ears, bark and there was a switch that went to the control on an internal tape recorder so he could speak. I had a big wonking analogue meter on the side of him right where K-9's video screen was. It was hooked up to this bizarre barometric device I found in a box of old parts my step uncle gave me. The barameter changed the resistance on this rheostat and the effect was shown on K-9's meter. This odd brass contraption looked so cool that I mounted it externally on him. It was too cool to hide inside. I still have K-9 sitting here in my "basement without shame". But alas he is but a mere shell of his former self (literally) as over the many years I canibalized him for parts for other projects. But he still looks cool. The last time I went to visit my Grandmother in Pembroke, the shell of the original cardboard prototype was still in her basement. CRACKERS (I should have gotten laid more from hell!!) - -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:43:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc In article <35EEF37A.12A5@geocities.com>, you wrote: > >Ooh, er, but... I'm so inexperienced... ;) ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ I love it when they're coy. ;) So what reference materials do you have for teaching yourself 6502 ML? I have a fantastic book that I found in the Value Village called "6502 Software Design" by Leo J. Scanlon from the Blacksburg Continuing Education Series. (Howard W. Sams & Co. Inc. Publishers). I have another book in the series called "Programming & Interfacing The 6502, With Experiments" by Marvin L. De Jong. It's a little more hardcore and has schematics for projects you can build using a 6502. There are some 6502 programming resource pages on the WEB too. Even if you don't plan on writing code for the 2600 you might still want to subscribe to Stella, or check out the archives. You'll learn to write really tight code. CRACKERS (You show me your source code I'll show you mine from hell!!!) - -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:43:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cracknell Subject: Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc In article <002a01bdde91$ae7884c0$1f5b48a6@default>, you wrote: >Interesting topic here! Tell me, isn't there an 'Alien" 2600 game? I >thought I read about it being somewhat rare awhile back and I have never >seen it if it exists. The thrift stores in this area have tons of these >games available along with other '80's memorabilia. I even saw a "Thriller" ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Yes there is an "Alien" game for the 2600. It's by 20th Century Fox. It's rated "R" (Rare). It's a lot like Pac-Man (more like Pac-Man than the official Pac-Man from Atari... boy is that one a bowser) but has a psudeo-freeway bonus round between mazes. I have this game and it's not a bad play. There has been talk of hacking it to make a more faithful Pac-Man clone for the 2600. I was at the Value Village yesterday to buy a 1702 someone told me about (it was gone). I picked up a TV converter with composite video output but it was dead. I saw one of those wee stereos with the tiny built in TVs. After I left I decided I'd go back and buy it. It had been sold (as is always the case). There was also a take of assorted pre-80 sci-fi themes. There was one song on it that said "Battle Of The Planets" I popped the tape into a stereo to give it a listedn but alas it wasn't the anime "Battle of The Planets" (Gatchaman in Japan) theme song. It did have the Battle of the Apes theme on it though. I'll have to go back later and return the converter. I plugged it in and it gave me one heck of an electric shock! CRACKERS (Zapped from hell!!!!!!!!!) - -- Collector of Atari 2600 carts - Accordionist - Bira Bira Devotee - Anime fan * http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html | Crackers' Arts Base * * http://www.angelfire.com/ma/hozervideo/index.html | Hozer Video Games * Nihongo ga dekimasu - 2600 programmer - Father of 2 great kids - Canadian eh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:35:06 EDT From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... In a message dated 9/12/98 6:56:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wearart@erols.com writes: << Have any of you ever tried to make/use iron-on t-shirt transfers with an inkjet printer? >> I have actually done something very similar believe it or not, making a transfer from a laser print onto fabric... had to use acetone as the solvent, then iron-on to set. But for INK-JET printers, there is an entirely different technique! Most inkjet printers use water-based rather than alcohol-based ink, and therefore isn't permanent. There are a number of different techniques you can employ to get past this problem, but most of these are for 'fiber art' type work & are not meant to be washed & worn. The methods I have heard of consist of running the actual piece of fabric through the printer, once the fabric has been 'stabilized' (using iron-on freezer paper, spray starch, or spray adhesive/glue stick to affix it to a piece of paper)... the printer must of course be set for accepting a heavier stock paper... then the image must dry for 24 hours & be heat set (350 degrees for ten seconds). THEN, if heatsetting has not made the print permanent (they can be a bit fussy you see) you can spray fix it, or iron a transfer sheet over it to provide a protective coating, or use mending tape to the same effect. Also, Canon makes computer-ready fabric sheets but I think these can only be used with their bubble jet printer. Melissa, you must get the book "Imagery on Fabric" by Jean Ray Laury, it was made for you! I can write out something more detailed from this very book if you want some quick info... but you should consider getting the book for your future reference. It has so much useful information & is SO inspiring!! Robin T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:29:06 EDT From: DThurkirk@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... In a message dated 9/12/98 6:56:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wearart@erols.com writes: << I had no one else to turn to in my time of need, so y'all get this ridiculous question... Have any of you ever tried to make/use iron-on t-shirt transfers with an inkjet printer? >> Howdy howdy howdy Let me tell ya all about making a good t-shirt transfer. First and foremost skip the inkjet and head for staples! At Staples (or some such similar store) consult with a Staple person and ask for T-shirt Transfer material that will run through a Cannon 700 or 800 color copier. (the stuff that runs through a cannon 550 is fine too) then place your file on a zip disk (or a floppy if it's small enough. If you don't have a zip drive use a compression program like "Winzip" to compress the file onto one or more floppies) Make sure you also put the fonts and support files on said disk(s) as you will need them. Head for Kinko's or some such copy place and you can output the image onto the T-shirt transfer paper you purchased at staples (Some copy places stock transfer paper so that's a good thing to check on before you got to Staples) Make sure you output it as a mirror image. Any ?'s just ask. __Dave T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:47:54 -0400 From: MacSuirtain Subject: Re: Alloy: Okay, a question for the craftier computer geeks among us... Robin and Dave both wrote: All sorts of very useful information! Many, many thanks!!! So much to do, so much to do. Plus, my sister just told me that she came across iron-on transfer papers especially for HP Inkjets tonight at, of all places, Sam's Club. (That's certainly not the most inventive or creative road, though, clearly!) Robin, I'm going to look up the book you recommended on amazon.com tonight. Very cool, and very much appreciated. And now for something completely different... Have any of you seen the trailers for the new Robin Williams film "What Dreams May Come"? It looks so lush, so gorgeous. I can't wait. Visit the movie web site, and experiment with the different areas of the site - -- in some ways, it reminds me of the FES site. Visit Chris' Paradise and look for all the different spots to click on. I'd love my world to have these colors in it. The site is: www.whatdreamsmay.com Time to log off and change the outfits on my Venus and David magnets -- I just got the "911 David" fireman gear and the "G.I. Venus" set. If you don't know what I'm talking about visit www.caryco.com. Yes, I'm lame, but I have fun with my lameness. Cheers, Melissa, Queen of the Fridge Magnets ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:47:01 -0700 From: Eclipse Subject: Re: Alloy: Geeks and scientists etc Chris Cracknell wrote: > > In article <35EEF37A.12A5@geocities.com>, you wrote: > > > > >Ooh, er, but... I'm so inexperienced... ;) > ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ > > I love it when they're coy. ;) > > So what reference materials do you have for teaching yourself 6502 ML? Actually, I've been looking for good reference material. I've got a book called "Apple Machine Language", by Don & Kurt Inman, and it's great to start out on... they make it surprisingly simple and start off by mixing in a lot of Applesoft Basic. All well and good, but I'm going to out grow it damn quickly. There is a 6502 m/l book at our local library (I don't remember the title or authors, but it was large and grey. Actually I think it was just called "6502 Machine Language", or something equally exciting)... but I could just as well use it as a doorstop. Having something sort of midway between the Inman book and the doorstop would be useful to no end. The only other book I've come across is one at A-Z Used Computers (A-Z is this fantastic little used computer store--actually, there are two, and they're seperate now, but the one I've gone to is run by this guy called Tow Truck. There's also a buddhist fellow named Dennis with a doctorate in philosophy and one in religion--and what do you DO with doctorates in philsophy and religion? so he works at A-Z... Or he did, and then he wandered off to seek enlightenment or something, but Turq saw him there several weeks ago, so maybe he found it and has come back. They've got nice old computers and parts, Apple II series, commodores and so on. Turq has bought their entire as-is table multiple times...), for $10, and it's for the entire (I think) 6500 series...I plan to snap it up as soon as I go back there. > There are some 6502 programming resource pages on the WEB too. I'll have to look for those. If you have any on hand, feel free to, y'know, pass them along.. > Even if you don't plan on writing code for the 2600 Ah, well... I'll try anything once.... ;) > you might still want > to subscribe to Stella, or check out the archives. You'll learn to write > really tight code. Mmm, sounds good. I think they had a fair amount of that sort of thing in the C-64 zine (or whatever it was) too.. Need to get ahold of some Ataris and Commodores and Amigas and whatever else I can find, my Apple is getting lonely (my other three computers are more modern, you see) > CRACKERS > (You show me your source code I'll show you mine from hell!!!) Oh, now, really, you're making me blush... ;) -- E(lipse "I know that you can hack it, I wanna see you jack it - jack it - c'mon now..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:54:15 -0700 From: Eclipse Subject: Alloy: Cioppino... Was out with the family at a nice restaraunt for my lil' brother's 13th (!) birthday, when what should I spot on the menu but "Shellfish Cioppino"... of course I simply had to try it, and it was about as good as Jen made it sound. ;) Figured I'd share that as an "Alloy moment" or something... -- E(lipse ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V3 #243 ***************************