From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V3 #110 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Saturday, April 25 1998 Volume 03 : Number 110 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alloy: Trouble on the Flat Earth? [Eclipse ] Alloy: An apology. [Paul Baily ] Alloy: Recent Alloy msgs [John_Hanson_at_FRMA01@ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter] RE: Alloy: Dear Slarvi . (cough, cough) [Ulfstedt Louise ] Re: Alloy: Ignorance is bliss.. [RThurF ] Re: Alloy: teletubbies [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: An apology. [RThurF ] Re: Alloy: Trouble on the Flat Earth? [Robyn Moore ] Re: Alloy: An apology. [Robyn Moore ] RE: Alloy: Dear Slarvi . (cough, cough) [IT Admin - Govt Office North Wes] Re: Alloy: Recent Alloy msgs [IT Admin - Govt Office North West ] Re: Alloy: An apology. [Beth Meyer ] Re: Alloy: Midnight [Eclipse ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:40:34 -0700 From: Eclipse Subject: Alloy: Trouble on the Flat Earth? Our "Wonder from Down Under" banged on one of the bar tables, and the Alloyance fell silent as he said his piece (quoted slightly out of order for message flow): > If anyone has any issues, or wants to take me to task on this, by all > means do so by email or phone, but do so privately. Let's not clog up the > list with more of this, eh? As per your other comments, let me say respectfully that, "I disagree", and I've taken a minute or ten to think about this--I hope I'm not out of line here. Although I respect your opinion (and had you not emphasized several times that you in your role as the Alloy admin guy, do not want to or feel it necessary to 'baby sit' us users, I would defer to it), I think (apparently Dabbit did too) that this is not sorted out to the extent that it should be taken off the list. I have a nagging impression that some feelings have been pretty fair hurt, and I think that if this is the case--and I could be completely wrong--then it concerns everyone here at Alloy. > This is Alloy: here everyone has a right to an opinion, everyone else has > the right to disagree, but is also expected to respect fellow listee's > opinions, and accept - even appreciate the differences. > > If you really want to take someone to task on their opinion, think along > the lines of 'have you looked at it this way?' as opposed to 'you're > WRONG!' or 'my opinion counts more than yours'. > > I'm not just meaning you here Steph - though your reply here was > definitely the one that prompted me to say something. We've had a couple > of incidents here of late and though I've been reading, I've not had a > chance until post-deadline to give non-MW email due attention. What were the other incidents? In my personal reading of his message, Stephen said things like: > I have had the privilege of attending two Joan Osborne shows and feel ^^^^ > she is being inappropriately maligned in this forum. > I believe it is unfair to compare Joan Osborne to certain talentless whelps as ^^^^^^^ > earlier put forth by the much respected and admired Elaine Linstruth. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - -I think- that he clearly states that what he said about Joan Osborne was his opinion. The entire post was very polite and was obviously (to me) written with a sense of humor (""). The only part of Stephen's post that I could see as potentially being offensive is when he said: > In a related anecdote I > heard an MTV media type put forth something about Jewel's "stunning > acoustic guitar performance" on _You Were Meant for Me_. I was quite > offended by that as I can play rings around that girl, and yet I > totally suck. Maybe I'm just not sucking in the right places. Even there, I can't personally recall any of the other Alloyites saying that they particularly liked Jewel; i.e., I don't think Stephen was saying that anyone particular on this list was "wrong" whereas he was "right"...although perhaps Stephen and the other Alloyites might respect the whole topic as sensitive, with regards to the problems on the Jewel list, and of course with regard to Jeff, our esteemed list host, and his opinions on the musician in question. Considering that the topic is sensitive, and apparently with more than good reason, I think (i.e. my opinion) you would be justified if this was what bothered you. If so, maybe you should have stated so clearly? Should we, indeed, make a general policy of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all", to avoid steping on toes and causing undo pain? Or would this overly hamper our freedom to speak out and state our opinions--where do we draw the line? There's never been any name-calling here... If that (sort of thing) wasn't the part of Steph's post that bothered you...what then? > If you want to labour a > point, take it offline. Better yet, wait a day or a night to cool off > before making sparks with a keyboard. > > Everyone think about that a minute before hitting the reply button. I'm genuinely sorry (with regards to this post of mine). I want this whole thing resolved--it's been very stressfull to write this, but I worry that maybe if I don't, I'll -always- feel this way when I dare to write to the list. I couldn't stand that--you all have been such a friendly, intelligent and most of all fun group of people... > A similar occurrence: Elaine had a bit of a good-natured jibe at Jewel > and jokingly thought of trolling the jewel list, also hosted on smoe. > Unfortunately, the jewel list (and therefore Alloy since it's on the same > host) has recently been the target of some pretty vicious and > debilitating denial of service attacks. If you're not sure of what that > means let me rephrase: it's of the calibre of someone not just shooting > out your porch light, but putting a fair sized rock through every window. > It's a credit to Jeff & co's quiet behind the scenes work that you barely > felt a thing. > > Elaine had no way of knowing this or that as a result of the attacks our > list host, Jeff Wasilko would (understandably) be very sensitive about it > right now. It's an unfortunate coincidence, and knowing the people > involved, I know there was no ill feeling or offence meant. I agree--it certainly wasn't anyone's fault, and I -sincerely hope that's completely clear to all involved-. I'm probably not alone in the Alloyance in wondering if there is anything I could possibly say or do to show appreciation for Jeff & co and all their hard work? I certainly would send money for the listserv, but at the moment, I don't have any, and I'm wary that a personal e-mail note expressing gratitude would just further disrupt a busy schedule... :( Ahwell.. In other words, to Dabbitt's: > The comments made regarding "flaming" on the Jewel list were made in jest, and > that they came at a bad time for the smoe.org team was unfortunate, though > coincidental. Also, that such flippant remarks could have such a major impact > on the flow of the Alloy list seems silly to me. We know we're all friends > here, over the years the comraderie we've displayed through our various > letters are proof of that. I haven't seen a single post between Alloy > subscribers which would signal otherwise, even when we've disagreed I've found > it to be with respect and intelligence. I must echo a resounding "ditto!"... As a closing note, and one that I emphasize is not completely necessary (as this is a friendly mailing list, not marriage), I volunteer the information that there are conditions external to this list which -may- be influencing my mood/attitude/opinions as expressed here--my brother's and my pet chicken Midnight died early this morning. This wasn't an ordinary chicken, but one of my brother's closest friends, and we're all sad today. I'm not trying to shunt away the blame for anything inappropriate that I said and I'm not asking for any sort of comiseration whatsoever, but simply wanted to toss it out--it's a habit I've developed, as events, emotions and other outside influences are completely invisible on-line unless stated, and this can--as we've seen--cause problems. I also want to say that I've never heard music from any of the female musicians in question, and am completely neutral there. Yours sincerely, E(lipse "And you'd hoped he'd say he's sorry if he hit you/but he's buried in the screenplay of his feature...." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 21:07:45 +1000 From: Paul Baily Subject: Alloy: An apology. Hi, Mea culpa. I owe you all an apology. E(lipse and Dabbitt, I thank you for your messages, you were spot on, and I'm glad you sent them for it made me stop and think about context in purely Alloy terms without for once letting external factors influence my thinking. I won't bore you with the details, suffice to say it's been a rough week, one of injustices done to several friends while I've felt powerless to help. Rips you up. Unfortunately as a result I let loose at the first slight injustices I perceived here. I'm sorry. Stephen, I most of all want to apologise to you. Your message caught me at exactly the wrong moment: I bit when I should have laughed. Paul. This message powered by "Human on the inside" off Underworld/Divinyls. ________________________________________________________________________ Paul Baily paulb@thehub.com.au JustSomeGuy http://www.thehub.com.au/~paulb Brisbane tel: +61-7-3857-8048/+61-411-875-009 Australia I'm only human on the inside ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:03:05 -0500 From: John_Hanson_at_FRMA01@ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter.com Subject: Alloy: Recent Alloy msgs OK, my bit (again) If anyone wants to harangue mercilessly anyone, why not start with those inept people who are responsible for the ticketting of the World Cup Finals. I mean, one three telephone lines for all Europe, ninety telephone operators ? Scumbags Yours upsettedly, having spent three days constatntly ringing the hotline number, John May the Cube not be with the CFO. So there. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:29:16 +0300 From: Ulfstedt Louise Subject: RE: Alloy: Dear Slarvi . (cough, cough) > >Is there *anybody* on this list that hasn't got `something' going on > with > >my girlfriend? > > > > Yes, he's a lurker called Eric Jenlappendoomer, he lives in the Outer > Hebrides where the electricity is only on for one hour per month and > he's > not allowed out of his crofter's shack during any week with a Friday > in it. > He was dumped on the island as an infant, since when he has never had > any > direct human contact, was raised by wild sheep and has no concept of > the > terms 'female,' 'woman' or 'opposite sex.' > > > >/\/\ischevious /\/\iles > > > >P.S. Bill, you heal up quick now, heah? > > Thanks. The cough is still here but the aches and pains seem to be on > the > wane. Should be back to work on Monday, unless I have a relapse. > > > And just who is this "hot toddy" you're going to bed with? Have you > told > your family? > > > > That's hot TODDY, not hot TOTTY. An entirely different thing. A hot toddy > is a warmed alcoholic beverage taken for its medicinal purposes, where > as a > hot totty is MRS Slarvibarglhee. > TT [cough, cough] FN > Slarv > > Slarvi, me love,...yer a silly bugger if there ever was one. aye,.......(northern accent coming out there,..) Kiss kiss, Lissu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:26:22 +0300 From: Ulfstedt Louise Subject: RE: Alloy: Ignorance is bliss.. Robin,...John is just being gentlemanly censoring his mails (and making me giggle,...I wonder whereabouts in the UK he's from,.. sounds like something my dad would say!!) 'Tis a word that is one of only two words I don't bandy around the office here, and I'm worried that my Finnish workmates don't catch on to it and use it when they're over in the UK, or else, if badly timed , they might get a punch on the nose. Mail me, and I'll s-p-e-l-l it out, but I'm not going to say it (she said, tossing her ponytail in the air, and pretending to be lady like,...without much success,...) BTW, has anyone got a tape from me yet? Hope so. Big smoochy kisses, :-) Lissu ( who's got that weekend feeling,....the spring sun is shining here,...boing! ) P.S.....(Mary love, thanks for the lovely long mail,..I haven't forgotten you, just been snowed under at work. will mail you very soon, sweetie! Would you like some mpegs of our latest efforts?) > -----Original Message----- > From: RThurF [SMTP:RThurF@aol.com] > Sent: 24 April 1998 01:22 > To: alloy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Alloy: Ignorance is bliss.. > > > In a message dated 4/23/98 10:25:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > John_Hanson_at_FRMA01@ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter.com writes: > > << I was made to look a bit of a t**t recently >> > > a t**t? !!! > does t**t = ...tart? teat? twit? taft? trot? that? tuft? test? > ...Nah!!! > PLease tell me what the censored word is!! > > Robin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:08:31 EDT From: DAbbitt32 Subject: Re: Alloy: An apology. In a message dated 4/24/98 4:16:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Paul apologized, and then in a touching footnote stated: << This message powered by "Human on the inside" off Underworld/Divinyls >> Quite seriously, a beautiful sentiment and one which all too often gets overlooked when people allow ego and emotion to get in the way. I guess it's a rough week all around (anyone know if the planets are/were in some sort of misalignment?). My wife and partner of eight years and I decided (very amicably) to separate and divorce three days ago. It was a difficult and painful decision, though it fosters growth in both of us. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's a good thing to sometimes take a step back and examine how important an issue is before responding to it emotionally, especially when reacting to the actions/words of others. Paul, your apology is noted, accepted, forgiven, but unnecessary. We are all, after all, only human. Peace... - -Dabbitt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:11:00 EDT From: RThurF Subject: Re: Alloy: Ignorance is bliss.. In a message dated 4/24/98 8:46:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, louise.ulfstedt@teleste.fi writes: << Robin,...John is just being gentlemanly censoring his mails (and making me giggle,...I wonder whereabouts in the UK he's from,.. sounds like something my dad would say!!) 'Tis a word that is one of only two words I don't bandy around the office here, and I'm worried that my Finnish workmates don't catch on to it and use it when they're over in the UK, or else, if badly timed , they might get a punch on the nose. Mail me, and I'll s-p-e-l-l it out, but I'm not going to say it (she said, tossing her ponytail in the air, and pretending to be lady like,...without much success,...) Thanks sweet Lissu... but I did hear from John privately. He seemed reluctant but he did tell me what the word was (and it wasn't 'toot' OR 'tilt' ) It's so kind of him to be so considerate! maybe I'll get his name tattooed on my arm when I go to that place in the White Mountains later this summer. He's such a gentleman :) <> It seems to be spring here too! BOING! and we get to see Dick Dale tonight!! Robin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:17:19 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: teletubbies At 11:37 PM 4/21/98 +0100, you wrote: >> >>@ Robyn Moore >>@ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html >>@ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. >> > >I've been meaning to ask. Who is 'S.C.' and was job is it that's dangerous? Okay, so I'm behind on my mail again. ;) Looking a bit forward, I see Charles has mostly answered it, but as well as the titles, the phrase is used when convincing his sidekick Fred (a lion) that they should embark on some dangerous maneuver when he objects. I find the phrase applicable to my life in general, so I put it in my .sig. (It reminds me I need to stick my neck out more often.) :) This message powered by a bizarre little French 'cartoon' called "Soupe-Opera". Robyn @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:19:51 EDT From: RThurF Subject: Re: Alloy: An apology. In a message dated 4/24/98 11:26:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DAbbitt32@aol.com writes: << I guess it's a rough week all around (anyone know if the planets are/were in some sort of misalignment?). My wife and partner of eight years and I decided (very amicably) to separate and divorce three days ago. It was a difficult and painful decision, though it fosters growth in both of us. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's a good thing to sometimes take a step back and examine how important an issue is before responding to it emotionally, especially when reacting to the actions/words of others. >> I'M SO SORRY TO HEAR THIS!!!!! :( My best wishes & support to you. I think the planets are badly aligned. I've been hearing such sad news all week :( :( :( :( Robin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 16:44:01 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: Trouble on the Flat Earth? At 08:40 PM 4/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >> on the flow of the Alloy list seems silly to me. We know we're all friends >> here, over the years the comraderie we've displayed through our various >> letters are proof of that. I haven't seen a single post between Alloy >> subscribers which would signal otherwise, even when we've disagreed I've >found >> it to be with respect and intelligence. > >I must echo a resounding "ditto!"... Amen to that. It's such a pleasure being on a list that doesn't degenerate into flames on a semi-regular basis. >As a closing note, and one that I emphasize is not completely necessary >(as this is a friendly mailing list, not marriage), I volunteer the >information that there are conditions external to this list which -may- >be influencing my mood/attitude/opinions as expressed here--my brother's >and my pet chicken Midnight died early this morning. This wasn't an >ordinary chicken, but one of my brother's closest friends, and we're all >sad today. I'm not trying to shunt away the blame for anything >inappropriate that I said and I'm not asking for any sort of comiseration >whatsoever, but simply wanted to toss it out--it's a habit I've >developed, as events, emotions and other outside influences are >completely invisible on-line unless stated, and this can--as we've >seen--cause problems. Please accept my condolences on your loss. It's always hard when a pet passes on. I agree with your comments about 'outside influences'...IMO, a lot of flame wars could be avoided if people just stopped to think maybe the poster was having a bad day. Robyn @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:02:28 -0700 From: Robyn Moore Subject: Re: Alloy: An apology. At 11:08 AM 4/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >I guess it's a rough week all around (anyone know if the planets are/were in >some sort of misalignment?). My wife and partner of eight years and I decided >(very amicably) to separate and divorce three days ago. It was a difficult >and painful decision, though it fosters growth in both of us. I guess what >I'm trying to say is it's a good thing to sometimes take a step back and >examine how important an issue is before responding to it emotionally, >especially when reacting to the actions/words of others. I'm sorry to hear of your situation, and hope all goes well with you. It has been a very rough week. I've been fighting off a bout of depression, Brigid was mysteriously sick all last night, and Kevin has to work all weekend moving his office. (His dept is changing buildings.) In talking to friends, I've disovered two have lost their jobs and another his flat. (The landlord wanted to remodel for a more 'upscale' clientele.) Apparently, this is one of those times when things are tough all over. > >Paul, your apology is noted, accepted, forgiven, but unnecessary. We are all, >after all, only human. I agree. :) Robyn @ Robyn Moore @ http://www.alveus.com/kbrm/robyn.html @ You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. - S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:45:28 +0100 (BST) From: IT Admin - Govt Office North West Subject: RE: Alloy: Dear Slarvi . (cough, cough) At 15:29 24/04/98 +0300, Lissu wrote: > > Slarvi, me love,...yer a silly bugger if there ever was one. > aye,.......(northern accent coming out there,..) > I resemble that remark. > Kiss kiss, > > Lissu > > Well, I've never hear of anyone trying to kiss a COUGH better before but, what the hell, I'll give it a go. I thank you. Slarv ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:45:30 +0100 (BST) From: IT Admin - Govt Office North West Subject: Re: Alloy: Recent Alloy msgs At 14:03 24/04/98 -0500, John wrote: > > If anyone wants to harangue mercilessly anyone, why not start with > those inept people who are responsible for the ticketting of the World > Cup Finals. I mean, one three telephone lines for all Europe, ninety > telephone operators ? > > Scumbags > As I've said before, I'm no big footy fan, but I DO like the World Cup because you get some fun matches when unknown semi-professional teams from tiny African countries beat the crap out of some of the favourites. As far as the French organisation of the event is concerned, it'll be interesting to see if the rest of it is as much of a shambles as the ticketing fiasco. Slarv ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:45:32 +0100 (BST) From: IT Admin - Govt Office North West Subject: Re: Alloy: An apology. At 19:19 24/04/98 EDT, Robin wrote: > > My wife and partner of eight years and I decided > (very amicably) to separate and divorce three days ago. It was a difficult > and painful decision, though it fosters growth in both of us. I guess what > I'm trying to say is it's a good thing to sometimes take a step back and > examine how important an issue is before responding to it emotionally, > especially when reacting to the actions/words of others. >> > >>I'M SO SORRY TO HEAR THIS!!!!! :( My best wishes & support to you. >>I think the planets are badly aligned. I've been hearing such sad news all >>week :( :( :( :( > >>Robin > > [Old fart ramble mode toggling ON] I echo Robin's sentiment and also DAb's comment about taking a step back and thinking about issues before reacting. Even though DAb's decision to separate may have been arrived at after a lot of soul searching, I'm sure it wasn't an easy or painless one. Paul Bailey has reminded us on occasion (Christmas and New Year, for example) that we need to keep a sense of perspective. There are a lot more important things to get riled about than whether you agree with some critic about Jewel's guitar prowess. While I've been off work for the last few days I've seen more news broadcasts than I usually do, and am distressed to see that there's another crisis emerging in a civil-war-torn African country. Food aid is desperately needed, but the government is restricting the number of aid flights to some areas, purely for political reasons. Thousands of innocent people are caught up in this and many will starve, but not because there isn't the will or skill to do something about it. 'Ethnic cleansing' is STILL taking place in some parts of former Yugoslavia. I could go on, but most of you have probably seen these reports, and more. And then last night there was a program about the richest people in Britain, some worth tens of millions, others a few billion. Most were self made millionaires, one or two had inherited their wealth. Most had several houses, many cars, race horses, planes, etc. etc. and have more personal wealth than they could ever spend. I have difficulty reconciling such vast wealth on the one hand, with all the poverty which still afflicts a very large part of the earth, on the other. I'm not a communist, but it bothers me that more is not being done with this 'spare' wealth. This list is fun to belong to, and no disrespect to anyone, but that's mostly all it is. Having said that, I've made some good friends in parts of the globe that I would not have done if Alloy didn't exist, and I'd miss you if I lost access to it. Reading all this waffle again before posting (as I usually do) I'm not really sure what point I'm trying to make, other than to remind MYSELF to keep a sense of perspective in all things. [Old fart ramble mode toggling OFF] Apologies for sounding off. Slarv ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:03:25 EDT From: RThurF Subject: Alloy: Midnight In a message dated 4/24/98 7:16:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eclipse@white- star.com writes: << my brother's and my pet chicken Midnight died early this morning. This wasn't an ordinary chicken, but one of my brother's closest friends, and we're all sad today. >> I'm really sorry to hear about your loss! It's so hard to lose a beloved pet/friend. Did you raise him from a chick? The grief you go through when you lose a pet - though it's so very painful - is a burden we take on as part of the joy of knowing them, having each other as companions, and knowing that you are helping to give them a good, happy life right up to the end. It's truly a privilege to have had a good friend in one's life, from the perspectives of both you and the pet. And of course, you'll never forget him, nor he you (though it may sound rather esoteric, I really believe this!) Thinking about all of this helped me get through my own grief when our little ferret had to be put to sleep because of extreme illness & pain, last December :( All my best wishes for you & your brother, E(lipse! Robin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:45:58 -0400 From: Beth Meyer Subject: Re: Alloy: An apology. Hi, folks; Dabb said: >> My wife and partner of eight years and I decided >> (very amicably) to separate and divorce three days ago. It was a difficult >> and painful decision, though it fosters growth in both of us. I guess what >> I'm trying to say is it's a good thing to sometimes take a step back and >> examine how important an issue is before responding to it emotionally, >> especially when reacting to the actions/words of others. >> .... Wow. I am so sorry. There is so much sad news going around of late, first Midnight and now this. This news really affected me somehow, perhaps because a) Mark and I just celebrated our eight-year anniversary in January, and b) we almost didn't make it that far. We were separated and almost divorced about three years ago. It was a truly heartbreaking time for both of us. We don't think about it much anymore; he still physically recoils when something reminds him of that time. Man, that can be some serious pain. My heart goes out to you and your estranged partner, Dabbitt. Then Slarv added: >Reading all this waffle again before posting (as I usually do) I'm not >really sure what point I'm trying to make, other than to remind MYSELF to >keep a sense of perspective in all things. With the addition of Slarv's musings, I am in a weird state of mind indeed. My own thinking is affected by the fact that, for several days now, I have been torn between two job offers that have really caused me to have to sort out my priorities. The annual salaries are identical (and quite generous), so that's not a factor. Basically, here's the issue. I love doing research and presenting it at conferences and having my ideas recognized by other people. I also love my husband, who has been waiting patiently for me to have time for him after eight years of grad school. One of the jobs is with a small startup company (I would be something like the tenth employee), as the head human factors researcher in a new R&D center in Atlanta. This job would involve a lot more research than the other offer, although on a topic that I'm not totally thrilled about (but then, it's not too far removed from an area where I have a lot of expertise). It also comes with loads of stock options. So basically, if the company succeeds, this job could make me both rich *and* famous. But then, I know my own workaholic tendencies; with that much at stake, and the fate of the company depending very much on my work, I would be putting in some seriously long hours. Plus I would probably end up managing people fairly soon, a task that gets you a lot of prestige and importance but which I don't enjoy at all. The other offer is in another city, an incredibly pleasant place where Mark and I would both like to live. It is for a large company with lots of flexibility about people going part-time or making other arrangements for family needs. The group of people and my potential boss seem wonderful, and have been praised to the sky by people who have worked with them. The thing is, the work would be enjoyable but more modest, with less research inherent to the job. (They don't object to people publishing research, since the job is in an R&D center, but I would have to be clever to get any real support for it.) I would almost certainly feel much more confident taking most evenings and weekends off to go on hikes in the forest with Mark. The company would not go under if I miss a deadline. But then, if I'm not publishing and presenting all sorts of research, would I feel like I am not living up to my potential? So basically, I'vebeen struggling between the possibility of becoming well-known in a small area and seriously wealthy (maybe!) but keeping the marriage somewhat on the back burner -- vs. the probability of being nicely paid with time for Mark and a family in a great place, but living more modestly and anonymously. I know, you're probably thinking, what the heck does THIS have to do with anything? But, as Slarv said, it all comes down to having perspective. I've had to do a lot of hard thinking about what really is important. And I'm not totally finished. It's a toughie, because I've been to two conferences this week (one in L.A. and one in Atlanta, the latter of which is still going on -- ugh!). There are all these distinguished people in their respective fields presenting their latest cool stuff to hundreds of intent listeners, and I realize how much I've dreamed of being like them. I'd started dreaming of being a scientist one day by the time I was five. But then, I remember what it was like to have Mark sobbing on my shoulder as our marriage fell apart, and know that I would do ANYTHING to keep that from happening again. Oh well. Sorry if that lengthy digression was neither relevant nor interesting nor helpful. Maybe it's the fatigue. Gotta get to bed now -- have to be downtown at 8:30 tomorrow morning to sell conference t-shirts (*#@&!) Cheers, Beth - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Beth Meyer School of Psychology Pager: +1-404-866-1362 Georgia Institute of Technology FAX: +1-404-894-8905 274 5th St. gt9020a@prism.gatech.edu -or- Atlanta, GA 30332-0170 bmeyer@psy.psych.gatech.edu http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt9020a/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:25:04 -0700 From: Eclipse Subject: Re: Alloy: Midnight RThurF wrote: > I'm really sorry to hear about your loss! It's so hard to lose a beloved > pet/friend. Did you raise him from a chick? Aww, thank you. We have a flock of hens, and we raised all of them from day old chicks--five of them are five years old, seven of them are four years old. We have six new babies too, a few weeks old. They all have names and are easy for us to identify by sight (a few we can tell by their voices).. they're very loving creatures, and unlike most birds, they like to be held and cuddled, and will come and sit in one's lap, just like a cat might. Midnight and Michael formed a special bond when she was very young--she was a black chicken that had accidentally gotten mixed in with the black and white chickens we got (they look the same as chicks, except that the future black & white ones have a few little yellow spots), so she was easy to tell apart throughout her life (generally, they're distinguished by us and by eachother, from their faces, their comb and wattles and so on, and those don't grow in until they reach maturity. I had a special chick that imprinted on me when she was a baby, and we marked her with yellow food coloring to tell her apart. Our vet says his wife insists that she's going to--get this--paint their new chicks' toenails to tell them apart!)... I didn't know Midnight very well, relatively speaking, since she was friendlier to Michael, and since she had a habit of picking on Autumn and Darling, two particularly loving girls that are rather low in the pecking order. I did spend time holding and talking to her though, and sketched and painted her a good bit since she was very beautiful. > The grief you go through when you lose a pet - though it's so very painful - > is a burden we take on as part of the joy of knowing them, having each other > as companions, and knowing that you are helping to give them a good, happy > life right up to the end. It's truly a privilege to have had a good friend in > one's life, from the perspectives of both you and the pet. And of course, > you'll never forget him, nor he you (though it may sound rather esoteric, I > really believe this!) Thinking about all of this helped me get through my own > grief when our little ferret had to be put to sleep because of extreme illness > & pain, last December :( Awwww.. :( I agree, they're truly special, worthwhile friendships. I've had the pleasure of having many wonderful non-human companions... We've lost many chickens, because we've had dozens, and there are all sorts of things that can happen to them. They're all missed and remembered. It never gets less painful, but I'm (slowly) learning how to deal with it better, I think. > All my best wishes for you & your brother, E(lipse! Thank you, Robin, and Beth, and everyone else. And now I'm sure I've told you all more than you wanted to know about chickens, so on to other e-mails.. -- E(lipse ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V3 #110 ***************************