From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V2 #268 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Saturday, November 29 1997 Volume 02 : Number 268 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: T-shirts are ordered! [Louise.Ulfstedt@nmp.nokia.com (Ulfsted] Alloy: Akira! [dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander)] Re: Alloy: Project B-Day ][ - DIBBS [dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexa] Re: Alloy: To the TMDR Collectors... [dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alex] Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. [dalexander] Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. [dalexander] Alloy: The next AAMBC [dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander)] Re: Alloy: Birthday girl! [crackers@hwcn.org] Re: Alloy: The next AAMBC [crackers@hwcn.org] Re: Alloy: Akira! [crackers@hwcn.org] Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. [IT Admin -] Re: Alloy: eduction [RThurF@aol.com] Alloy: got Recording, got Resurrection [RThurF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:48:32 +0200 From: Louise.Ulfstedt@nmp.nokia.com (Ulfstedt Louise NMP) Subject: Re: Alloy: T-shirts are ordered! Hi! Hell,....I've been out of the office again for the whole week,...did I miss the whole T-shirt thing, or did you put me down for one Miles? Grumbling at the mess the corporate world makes of the TRULY important things in my life,.... Bah humbug :-) Lissu xxxx ---------- From: alloy To: alloy Subject: Re: Alloy: T-shirts are ordered! Date: 27. November 1997 19:35 In a message dated 11/26/97 7:47:09 AM, Miles wrote: <> Thank you Miles !!!! :) Robin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:27:39 -0700 From: dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander) Subject: Alloy: Akira! CRACKERS wrote, >(On no, my friend has absorbed the power of the Ameoba and has now become >omnipotent. My only chance is to sneak up on him and blow him away with >this laser before he can detect my presence.... there we go... line up >the sights.... must catch him by suprise....) > >TETSUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >(Oh shit... did I just think that or did I say that out loud?) > >KENADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >(Doh!... said it out loud,) Loved it, loved it, absolutely loved it! Awesome movie! Except everytime someone would call Kenada's name, I would have to reprogram my mind to say, 'No, it's not Canada, it's Kenada.' The weirdest part of the movie was when the three kids attacked him in the hospital. Teddy bears and toy cars bleeding of milk? Weird, man! Almost tweaks your mind! JAMac ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:05:17 -0700 From: dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander) Subject: Re: Alloy: Project B-Day ][ - DIBBS JAMac wrote: >> Wait! How are they going to name Windows after 1999? Slarve wrote, >Double glazing. Next question, please. LOL! (yes, I just barely, finally read the message. I'm so far behind on my email! JAMac ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:31:06 -0700 From: dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander) Subject: Re: Alloy: To the TMDR Collectors... CRACKERS wrote, >I've got the CD with the short version of "Science" and the long version >of "Airwaves" and the version of "Radio Silence" that features Ms. Sakamoto. >I wish there was a CD with the long version of "Science" and the the rest >of the CD like mine. I had a tape years ago with the long version of "Science", the non-Ms. Sakamoto "Radio Silence". Now I've got a CD exactly as you describe. I think I liked the tape version better. >Incidently, I have heard from time to time, on the radio, "One Of Our >Submarine" The Extremely Long Play Version. > >This recording of the song goes on forever before the vocals come in. >The first time I heard it I though... how odd, somehow the DJ's CD player >is filtering out the main vocals but leaving the background vocals and >instruments intact. Then I though, perhaps he's playing the Kerioke version >of the song. But then the main vocals came in. > >Anyone ever heard this before? Was it a legitimate Dolby work or did >the DJ somehow put together this mix himself? Never heard of it. JAMac ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:54:32 -0700 From: dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander) Subject: Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. Hi Dave. I wrote, ><< Nobody wants to bother with educating themselves. For some >stupid reason, they would rather be stupid and miserable.>> You wrote, >They might well not be miserable at all. They may be happily watching >baywatch and making babies. Yes, but I bet they're not as happy as they could be and I do know that most people don't want to admit that. You have to befriend them on a very personal level before they admit it. Most every person I have ever befriended at that level has proven this to me. There have been a few who really did have it all together. >Well, I don't think education is the right future for everybody. Its right >for me, and many of my friends. I think people naturally try for a better >tomorrow already, education or no. The better tomorrow definition varies. > For some a better tomorrow means the Yankees win the penant. Others think >a better tomorrow means a great healthcare system and safe streets while a >few would say no health care system and no streets. So the masses of people >do indeed care about their future. They care if they are getting what they >need. They care about their children, and their home and their families and >about making sure they survive. The only common denominator in all of this >future caring business is that people all want to survive and be happy. All >education does is give people more tools to work with. You're right about the future being different for each person. But it starts with education. Most people, again, don't want to be proven wrong. They want to be fooled into thinking they're happy because they're afraid there is no true happiness for them. That's why I love conversation like this. It teaches me little things here and there. I am the first to admit I don't know enough. Dare I say, that is why I am smarter than the average person. Most people have the answer right in front of their faces but they don't want to bother with the effort. They want the easy way. There is no easy way to happines. Better yet, the real key, which you describe in this next paragraph is a crucial part of this education. >If you have a tool though you need the wisdom to know when and when not to >use it. Wisdom isn't taught well at all in the western world. Not by any >facet of society parents, religion, or formal schooling. I think a person >who seeks self education is ussually on a path to wisdom as well. So if we >encourage a wiser society first, before we encouraged a society wull of >people with the ability to develope whatever type of tool they desire we >might survive better. Currently though I think a person has to begin to >develope wisdom either at an early age or through some personal event then go >from there. I don't see any real crack for a more organized form of teaching >wisdom to enter society. What is wisdom? It's more than education; often it's knowledge acquired through experience. It is applied knowledge. It is mature. And I couldn't agree with you more; The western world does not value wisdom enough. Our methods of teaching wisdom are all wrong or they aren't there. Example: I recall watching "The Karate Kid" years ago. It struck me funny that Daniel was amazed that Mr. Miagi's (sp?) father taught him so much. That is where I came from. More than any education I got in school, nothing can out do what my parents taught me. And this is exactly why we have a problem in the western world. Parents don't want to deal with the responsibility of raising their children. Wisdom has been lost. They think that the teachers can give it to them. And while I strongly belive in the African proverb "It takes a village to raise a child", it must start at home or order will be lost as it has in this country. You may not agree with me, but you can't ignore the chaos that has been slowly developing over the last several decades. This is exactly what destroyed the mightiest world power, the Roman empire. The family was lost. Everyone had the attitude of 'me first', and everything dissapeared. In conclusion, several things are required. Education, wisdom - which comes from education, application of that wisdom - which takes effort. Education also takes effort. Getting knocked down and 'learning' to get up again. It's not a matter of winning, it's the battle. Life is not a destination, it is a journey. You have to take risks to grow and people don't want to do that. This life is so risky, aint none of us going to get out alive! So why not have fun by applying value where it belongs. Not in material things or comforts, but rather, adventure; being ready for the next attack or looking for the next challenge. There is no such thing as a problem; only situations. Every 'problem' has the solution built into it; you just have to look for it. JAMac ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:10:12 -0700 From: dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander) Subject: Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. Continuing my reply to Dave, I'll continue on this message. E(lipse wrote, >It's so simple, I've seen it happen time and time again. Any child in a >healthy, free environment will learn, will in fact love learning. I >know there are plenty of parents who don't care, and I don't think >anyone has a good solution for that. But if more of the parents who did >care knew that they could take their kids out of school, it'd be a step >in the right direction. Desire to learn is natural, everyone is born >with it.. it's just usually crushed in our society, primarily by the >schooling system. Bingo! It's not the fault, or responsibility, of the children but rather their parents. Children are preprogrammed for success. Example: Show me just one child who understands the meaning of the word 'no'. You tell them 'no' and they aren't going to listen because they know what success is, and they want it! Somehow our society is screwed up. "Act your age!" "I've heard of people trying that before, it didn't work." Bah Humbug! Anything is possible if you believe you can. I personally don't give a damn what discouragement anyone gives me because my parents taught me and proved to me in themselves and myself that anything is possible! I only have one disagreement with your comment. Home schooling isn't necessarily the answer. True, you get the child away from that horrible environment and the parent takes first hand in teaching, which is great. However, how will those children learn how to combat that negativity if they don't confront it. Again, the child needs their parent to teach them what is negative and how to combat or ignore it. But if they never see it, they wont know what to do when they move out on their own and have to deal with it every single day! Therefore, I strongly believe that children should go to school but that parents should take a very active participation in their childs education. And as Dave brought out, the parent must teach their child about wisdom. >Certainly many adults don't want to bother with educating themselves, >because of the system they've been through, but children...! Actually, >I've seen quite a few adults come around when they have/spend time with >healthy kids. Yes, sometimes adults do wake up, sometimes. Most don't. >As you were saying about the government wanting an ignorant >population--the current school system was indeed designed during the >industrial era, for the explicit purpose of making mindless factory >workers. Too true. I've finally been learning about "thinking outside of the box." In the real sense. The corporate world of our society is a sick structure. I absolutely hate it. I don't care what 'accomplishments' it has achieved. We were much better off living in villages as farmers, weavers, blacksmiths and such. But you've always got some idiot who wants to play god and see how many people he can lord himself over. >Anyone here heard of John Holt? Sorry, I have to claim ignorance, or forgetfulness on this one. Who is he? I appreciated you comments! Keep them coming! JAMac ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:24:30 -0700 From: dalexander@juno.com (Dennis S. Alexander) Subject: Alloy: The next AAMBC CRACKERS, I've changed my mind, again. I've been working on "Leipzig" for a week and while I am having great success with it, IT'S KILLING ME! "It's suckin' my will to live, man!" No the song is not bad, it's just awfully depressing for me, at least at this time. Artistically, it's another Dolby masterpiece. So I'm changing my claim to "Beauty of a Dream". I really need it now anyway. JAMac The indecisive one ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:03:11 -0500 (EST) From: crackers@hwcn.org Subject: Re: Alloy: Birthday girl! In article <199711251402.AAA24039@smople.thehub.com.au>, you wrote: >It's our very own Europa's birthday. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Happy Birthday Europa. CRACKERS (I was 14, she was 12 from hell!!!!!!) - -- Accordionist - Wethifl Musician - Atari 2600 Collector | /\/\ *NEW CrAB URL* http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html ***| \^^/ Bira Bira Devotee - FES Member - Samurai Pizza Cats Fan| =\/= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:03:18 -0500 (EST) From: crackers@hwcn.org Subject: Re: Alloy: The next AAMBC In article <19971127.142432.4190.6.dalexander@juno.com>, you wrote: >No the song is not bad, it's just awfully depressing for me, at least at >this time. Artistically, it's another Dolby masterpiece. So I'm >changing my claim to "Beauty of a Dream". I really need it now anyway. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Okee dokee! but keep in mind I put Lissu over me knee for changing her dibb too many times. ;) To: alloy@smoe.org References: <19971120.023420.24126.0.dalexander@juno.com> <19971118.103938.16166.1.dalexander@juno.com> Subject: Project B-Day ][ Dibbs. In article <19971120.023420.24126.0.dalexander@juno.com>, you wrote: > "Leipzig!" ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Okee Dokee... Here's the dibbs. Crackers - Hot Sauce Keith Stansell - Wreck of the Fairchild Jose Gomez - Puppet Theatre Miles - The Flat Earth The Copse - One Of Our Submarines Lee Jackson - Dissidents JAMac - Beauty Of A Dream Croydon - Valley Of The Mind's Eye Have I missed anyone? CRACKERS (Get 'em while they're hot from hell!!) - -- Accordionist - Wethifl Musician - Atari 2600 Collector | /\/\ *NEW CrAB URL* http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html ***| \^^/ Bira Bira Devotee - FES Member - Samurai Pizza Cats Fan| =\/= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 18:03:17 -0500 (EST) From: crackers@hwcn.org Subject: Re: Alloy: Akira! In article <19971127.132825.4190.2.dalexander@juno.com>, you wrote: >The weirdest part of the movie was when the three kids attacked him in >the hospital. Teddy bears and toy cars bleeding of milk? Weird, man! >Almost tweaks your mind! ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Speaking of anime... I inadvertantly joined the Macmaster Otaku society (honest, I just wanted to see the movies, I'm not an otaku). I saw the first two episode of what has to be the best Anime series ever. Mobile Battleship Nandeshiko. I laughed my ass off. The mars and moon colonies were taken over by aliens and earth is under attack. An independent corporation builds a powerful battleship and recruits a crew of experts (all, coincidentally teens) to man it. They hire this otaku to be the pilot of the ship's transforming ships (and an ex-pilot from mars as cook). The pilot breaks his leg training to use the mecha (and he insists on being addressed as the hero of his favorite anime). So the cook reluctantly takes over (which pisses off the otaku pilot). The ship's computer engineer is a 10 year old girl who seems utterly bored and disappointed with everyone and everything (in a deadpan voice she constantly refers to everyone as "idiots" (even herself)). There's a scene where the cook is launching his mecha while the ship is at sea. There's the whole tech-thing with "countdown to manual launch... manual lauch systems are go... manual launch standby...etc." 10 year old: "Isn't manual launch just running." Navigator: "Yes." 10 year old: "I thought so... idiots!" Meanwhile the engineer is yelling out, "That's a ground combat unit!! That's a ground combat unit!!!" The guy goes running out the launch tube and goes splash into the ocean. So the otaku pilot launches his flying mecha to rescue the cook-pilot. Since his leg is broken, he can't use the legs on his mecha so he recommends that the cook combine his ground mecha with his flying mecha. Otaku-pilot: "We'll call the combination the "Crash Cross"." Cook-pilot: "Umm... do we have to?" "Yes, now yell it out on three... one... two... three..." (both together, otaku yelling, cook subdued and embarassed) "Crash Cross" Otaku-pilot: "No! you have to yell it out louder, with feeling!" I guess you had to be there... CRACKERS (Otaku pilots from hell!!!!!!) - -- Accordionist - Wethifl Musician - Atari 2600 Collector | /\/\ *NEW CrAB URL* http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html ***| \^^/ Bira Bira Devotee - FES Member - Samurai Pizza Cats Fan| =\/= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:26:24 GMT From: IT Admin - Govt Office North West Subject: Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. Well, I have to take issue with some of the views expressed recently about education, or at least add a few of my own thoughts on this subject. I really didn't want to get embroiled in this subject in Alloy, so I've bitten my tongue until now, and even if I feel provoked by further postings, this will be my one and only contribution. 1. I'm not convinced that governments' aims have been to produce mindless factory fodder. Do ALL politicians plot together to maintain their superior position and keep the populace down? I think not. I'm sure many are genuinely acting for the common good, but only time will tell whether they'll succeed. Assuming they DID want to keep the populace in ignorance, how would they? Intelligent people don't become less so by being subject to state education. If that was the case we probably wouldn't be able to express the views which have already been voiced here. There are plenty of successful people who were failed by their education systems, and plenty of folk who don't reach their possible potential despite the best education the state can provide or money can buy. 2. Regardless of what the education authorities may want to be taught, and the accepted methods to be used, teachers have their own styles. Many of us have been lucky enough to be in a class where the teacher exudes enthusiasm about the subject and has a unique way of getting students' interest. Many use novel and innovative methods to capture the imagination of their students. Unfortunately, for every one of these, there are probably ten disillusioned teachers going through the motions, maybe unable to control their unruly classes and cynical about the education system themselves. 3. You can't teach anyone anything, but you CAN provide an environment where people may learn. 4. Many experiments in education have been tried this century. Some remarkable results have been achieved by innovative thinkers who've run schools in ground breaking ways. Conversely, some experiments have gone disastrously wrong. In England, within the last thirty to forty years, one London Borough school, staffed by mainly left wing teachers, was allowed to throw out its curriculum and let the students do whatever they liked. This was allowed on the grounds that children WOULD want to learn and would find their own preferred learning styles naturally. What actually happened was anarchy. Tough kids ran the school like gangsters, the teachers didn't attempt to provide a learning environment; kids spent time shooting at cans with air pistols, hanging around smoking and playing football all day. Absenteeism was at a record high. Very few could read or write by the time the Education Authority finally stepped in in an attempt to get it back on track. Another school in the north of England did a similar thing, but in a structured way. Children had to attend 'classes,' but what and how they learned was largely up to them. The kids loved it and came in early and stayed late voluntarily. Like minded teachers worked with the kids to provide a nurturing environment, and it had spectacular results. Regrettably, when the head teacher, who's brainchild this was, retired, no one stepped in to carry on the good work, and the school reverted to a more traditional style. 5. Parents should take more responsibility for their children's education and upbringing. Many couples want children, but don't know what to do with them after they're past the first couple of years. So, they expect school to educate them, they don't take part in school activities, they don't take an interest in their children's school work, they don't go to parent's evenings, they let their children roam the streets at night because it's the easy option. They don't instill good manners (note, I didn't say TEACH them good manners), respect for others or any 'civilized' values. Then they throw their hands up in despair and say they can't understand why their kids get in trouble at school for disrupting classes, fighting, damaging school property, etc. and when they also get in trouble with the law. 6. Acceptable behaviour begins to be instilled as soon as a child is born, as is unacceptable behaviour. Boys whose fathers beat their mothers often beat their own wives when they eventually get married. How can you expect a child to have respect for its fellow pupils and teachers if its own parents fight and also verbally, physically or mentally abuse the child itself? But if your parents DO spend time with you, get involved with school activities, treat others with respect you're more likely to grow up with the same values yourself. I say 'more likely' because if you live in a poor area, peer pressure can easily override your parents' values and children from 'good homes' can go off the rails. I could go on ...... and on, and on, but I won't. This is a complex subject and there are no easy answers to society's problems, whether it's education, crime, housing or health care. I wish there were. But if you're unhappy about your 'the system,' get involved. Get yourself elected and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:03:54 -0500 (EST) From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: eduction In a message dated 11/28/97 9:11:38 PM, Slarvi wrote: <> I didn't want to quote everything Slarv wrote, but I totally agree with it. If only you could run for the US presidency, Slarvi - I'd cast my vote for you after that speech! Robin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:00:45 -0500 (EST) From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: got Recording, got Resurrection We've just seen Alien Resurrection, & I had to purchase the soundtrack immediately afterward. There was one six- or seven-seconds-long piece of music in the score that scared me so badly that I instinctively reverted to a state of completely irrational white hot panic upon hearing it... I love music that can scare the crap out of me. And it can be yours for just $14.99 kids! (I've got it playing now, but I'm prepared this time) I also found my copy of Recording magazine at the same music store this evening, and have read some of it on the train. Their interview with Thomas is already clarifying a few more things for me about Headspace's products. Thomas has mentioned in many of these articles that he would love to do his next album using this technology. I myself would love to hear more about this next album he's got in mind. Now that things are moving with Headspace, will there be time for him to focus on music for a while? Not only would it be a PERFECT demonstration of applied Headspace technology, but to be perfectly blunt - we're all starved for you Thomas! Robin ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V2 #268 ***************************