From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V3 #121 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Wednesday, May 6 1998 Volume 03 : Number 121 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: Fw: Questions [John_Hanson_at_FRMA01@ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter] Re: Alloy:Alloy T-Shirts/Bicycles [Paul Baily ] Re[2]: Alloy:Alloy T-Shirts/Bicycles [John_Hanson_at_FRMA01@ccmailgw.mcga] Alloy: Dolby info ["Denise D Luckey" ] Re: Alloy: Dolby info [Beth Meyer ] Alloy: Welcome to Michael! ["Stephen M. Tilson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:28:05 -0500 From: John_Hanson_at_FRMA01@ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Fw: Questions - --IMA.Boundary.103853498 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part > Hello everyome! As a long time Dolby fan I am pleased to be joining this > Alloy list.> Salut Mikey.... bonjour et bienvenue dans le monde de Dolby !! Que le Cube soit avec vous, John - --IMA.Boundary.103853498 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822 message headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RFC822 message headers" Received: from ns2.baxter.com (159.198.1.38) by ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter.com with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 003F4821; Mon, 4 May 98 14:02:53 - -0500 Received: from siren.shore.net (siren.shore.net [207.244.124.5]) by ns2.baxter.com (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA16653 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:02:16 - -0500 (CDT) Received: from smoe.org [204.167.97.154] (root) by siren.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 0yWQSj-0001Ay-00; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:59:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id PAA16047; Mon, 4 May 1998 15:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Mon, 4 May 1998 15:01:05 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id OAA15996 for alloy-outgoing; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.113]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-relay2) with ESMTP id OAA15992 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (slip166-72-91-177.va.us.ibm.net [166.72.91.177]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25304 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 14:47:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199805041847.OAA25304@pimout2-int.prodigy.net> From: "Denise D Luckey" To: Subject: Alloy: Fw: Questions Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:48:52 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-alloy@smoe.org Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. Precedence: bulk - --IMA.Boundary.103853498-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 98 22:34:01 +1000 From: Paul Baily Subject: Re: Alloy:Alloy T-Shirts/Bicycles 'ello! >But on the topic of bike riding - I'm asking everyone I know who rides to >give >me their advice on bike/traffic safety. Okay, just remember you did ask. :) > I'm getting a mountain bike (big >tough >treads, strong frame) which I plan to ride it to work and back year-round for >aerobic exercise and to lower stress. Yeah they're great for that! I originally got mine to try and build up the fitness levels and muscle tone again but was amazed at how good it is for de-stressing. Most likely because I outright refuse to a) carry a cellphone with me on it, or b) even /think/ about trying to fit a computer to it. I am saving up for a life, really I am.... > I should be getting it in a few weeks >time, along with a good helmet, reflectors, lights & gloves. I can already >ride quite well, but am not very experienced at riding in traffic. Any advice >from my pals at Alloy will be of great comfort, since my husband is seriously >NOT encouraging me to do this. He's worried I'll get hurt, though he knows >how safety-conscious I am. Help! I can well understand Dave worrying, riding in traffic is not the safest thing to do even under good conditions and with wide roads. That said (IMHO) in most cases it's worth it! I'm lucky in that I'm a couple of side streets and two minutes away from a pretty park complete with sealed bike tracks so I spend most of my time cruising around there. I'd also suggest that you get to know your bike and build confidence by taking it along bike tracks for a while before attempting the big commute. My best advice to you would be to be as predictable as you can be so other road users may get an idea of where you're going. Second would be to always assume drivers /haven't/ seen you, i.e. watch out for doors opening on parked cars, cars turning in front of you, cars not giving way etc., basically an extension of the 'assume everyone else on the road is an idiot' driving habits we all end up using. Oh and finally, stay as far to the left as you can. Hang on this international stuff is so hard... Have fun! Paul. This message powered by Skin off Ray of Light/Madonna P.S. Robin, sorry, I know I owe you email, inbound! ________________________________________________________________________ Paul Baily paulb@thehub.com.au JustSomeGuy http://www.thehub.com.au/~paulb Brisbane tel: +61-7-3857-8048/+61-411-875-009 Australia Do I know you from somewhere? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:15:28 -0500 From: John_Hanson_at_FRMA01@ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter.com Subject: Re[2]: Alloy:Alloy T-Shirts/Bicycles - --IMA.Boundary.131873498 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part A few bits of advice from a man who regularly tours Paris on both folding bike and a full-sized tourer... > I'm getting a mountain bike (big tough treads, strong frame) which I plan to ride it to work and back year-round for aerobic exercise and to lower stress. Yeah they're great for that! and for making hard work of it. I recommend; sod mountain bikes, a real mountain bike for tackling the REAL rough stuff will set you back at least six hundred English pounds. Anything less won't stand up to the job. If you just aim to potter around lanes / cycles tracks / ordinary roads, get a nice road bike & set it up for touring, with 700 x 32 size semi-slick tires, mudguards, good lights and a friggin' good unbreakable lock. Also thieves ADORE mountain bikes; something less obvious might not attract so much attention. >good helmet, reflectors, lights & gloves. Good thinking ! I I'd also suggest that you get to know your bike and build confidence by taking it along bike tracks for a while before attempting the big commute. Excellent advice. Have fun! the best advice. Be positive, make yourself visible, give clear signs, if in doubt, take the safest option & get off the road until it's safe to get back on. MTCBWY & your Carlton Stadium circa 1978, since upgraded with Mavic rims, full Shimano STI etc. John PS Get a good ladies saddle as well ! - --IMA.Boundary.131873498 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="RFC822 message headers" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RFC822 message headers" Received: from ns2.baxter.com (159.198.1.38) by ccmailgw.mcgawpark.baxter.com with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 003F6CA4; Tue, 5 May 98 07:40:04 - -0500 Received: from mermaid.shore.net (mermaid.shore.net [207.244.124.6]) by ns2.baxter.com (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id HAA08775 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 07:39:06 - -0500 (CDT) Received: from smoe.org [204.167.97.154] (root) by mermaid.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 0yWh14-0003lE-00; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:40:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id IAA00865; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Tue, 5 May 1998 08:41:31 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id IAA00816 for alloy-outgoing; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smople.thehub.com.au (smople.thehub.com.au [203.17.162.10]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-relay2) with ESMTP id IAA00812 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 08:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [203.17.162.47] (bne47.thehub.com.au [203.17.162.47]) by smople.thehub.com.au (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA01880 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 22:33:51 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199805051233.WAA01880@smople.thehub.com.au> Subject: Re: Alloy:Alloy T-Shirts/Bicycles Date: Tue, 5 May 98 22:34:01 +1000 x-sender: paulb@mail.thehub.com.au x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Paul Baily To: "Alloy" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-alloy@smoe.org Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. Precedence: bulk - --IMA.Boundary.131873498-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:33:26 -0000 From: "Denise D Luckey" Subject: Alloy: Dolby info Just for kicks, here are some more of my Dolby related stories. I first heard TD on MTV in 1982 with the "Europa" video. Didn't make much of it at the time but when I heard "Science" in 1983 I was hooked! I purchased "Golden Age" and quickly realized it was the best album I had ever heard! I personalized my license plates to TDOLBY on one car and SCIENCE on the other(still have the plates!). I bombarded the local hits' station nightly top five to keep "Science" at #1 for two weeks until the DJ realized one guy was getting his friends to call in and keep it at the top. When TD toured here in 1984 I purchased tickets for anyone who wanted to go (I was still in high school and had money to burn!) but the venue was switched from a concert hall to a nightclub which prohibited admittance under 21. Many of my friends couldn't attend but those that did snuck in with me during the opening song! Bought one of each souvenir at the stand and had him sign two albums before the show but have never had the pleasure of meeting him since. When "Hyperactive" came out I purchased every copy at every record store here in Newport News,VA. and gave them out at school as promos! I've done several Dolby paintings in art classes I have attended and have even done some custom T-shirts of him-one of which I left for him at his show here in '84(wonder if he ever got it?). I've accumulated many articles and videos including the '85 Grammy presentation with Stevie Wonder, Howard Jones, and Herbie Hancock. Loved "The Flat Earth" album but hated "Aliens Ate My Buick" and wish TD would someday rekindle his desire for studio work. Seems like he's moving further from the audio arena with all of his current projects and I hope he doesn't abandon recording altogether. Some of his recent efforts are among his best efforts yet(can't get enough of "Valley of the Mind's Eye") and it would be a shame to see him stop. Every year my friends and I have a Dolby countdown ranking all of his songs by favorites("Radio Silence"-fast version usually wins) which we have done faithfully since 1985. Needless to say, my wife thinks we're all a little deranged! That's a little bit of info on my journey here-anyone have a similiar one? Till Caroline makes her final adjustments, make mine DOLBY! Michael Luckey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:48:18 -0400 From: Beth Meyer Subject: Re: Alloy: Dolby info Hi, folks; Wow, Michael, where have you been all this time?!? You should fit in well here! Considering how much you would like to hear more compositions from our fearless leader (wouldn't we all), there is one thing you must do if you have not already done it. (Assuming that you have a web browser and a sound card and speakers on your computer.) 1. Go to www.headspace.com. 2. Download and install the "beatnik" plugin. You can do this by clicking on "plug-in" under "Experience Beatnik audio", and then clicking on "Download." I think you'll also have to close down your browser and run the file that you download. 3. Go back to www.headspace.com (make sure the speakers are plugged in and turned on!). You should hear a whole bunch of stuff when you get there. 4. Click on the word "Showcase" under "Experience Beatnik audio." 5. Click on "Beatnik walkthrough" (you'll have to scroll a little). You will hear a relatively new Dolby composition called "Algarve" on page four, and have opportunities to hear others on page 5. One, called "Sunlane," is described as "a neat little Ambient file." If you've already done all this, sorry for the redundancy. If not, you should definitely get a kick out of it! Cheers, Beth - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Beth Meyer School of Psychology Pager: +1-404-866-1362 Georgia Institute of Technology FAX: +1-404-894-8905 274 5th St. gt9020a@prism.gatech.edu -or- Atlanta, GA 30332-0170 bmeyer@psy.psych.gatech.edu http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt9020a/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:09:29 -0400 From: "Stephen M. Tilson" Subject: Alloy: Welcome to Michael! Welcome and well met, Michael. It seems to me that you have come home. This IS the place for doddering old dolby fans / audients / enthusiasts. It always warms my heart to hear I am not the only one with these affectations. So, Welcome Home! Stephen aka /\/\iles the |-|eretic ********************************************************************* If the best part of waking up is Folger's in my cup, no wonder I don't want to get out of bed. ---Mary A. Brown ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:10:10 +0100 (BST) From: IT Admin - Govt Office North West Subject: Re: Alloy:Alloy T-Shirts/Bicycles At 20:40 04/05/98 EDT, Robin wrote: > >But on the topic of bike riding - I'm asking everyone I know who rides to give >me their advice on bike/traffic safety. I'm getting a mountain bike (big tough >treads, strong frame) which I plan to ride it to work and back year-round for >aerobic exercise and to lower stress. I should be getting it in a few weeks >time, along with a good helmet, reflectors, lights & gloves. I can already >ride quite well, but am not very experienced at riding in traffic. Any advice >from my pals at Alloy will be of great comfort, since my husband is seriously >NOT encouraging me to do this. He's worried I'll get hurt, though he knows how >safety-conscious I am. Help! > >Robin > Like the man said, you did ask. Others have already submitted some good advice, all of which I'd agree with. I've cycled to work in this city for over twenty years and I wouldn't use a mountain/All Terrain (AT) bike for this purpose. As has been said, they are very desirable for thieves and a really wasted on city travelling. The other overriding (no pun intended ... oh, I don't know, maybe it was) factor is the handlebars. A.T. bars are too wide to get between lines of traffic, or between standing traffic and the curb, so I always ride a bike with drop handlebars, as they're much narrower. My bike is a 20 year old 'racer' and I could probably leave it unattended in the city without it being stolen. It looks crap, but it's well maintained, which is more important, and if it DID get stolen it'd be no great loss. (In fact it WAS stolen out of my shed last year, but it was dark at the time, and I found it dumped in the street the following day. Once the thief got a good look at it he must have realised it wasn't worth stealing. BUT it's worth ten pounds per week in bus fares to work for me.) If I was buying a new bike now, I'd probably get a good second hand one. New ones are just too stealable. In the UK every few months the police auction off any stolen bikes they've recovered if they're not claimed by the original owners, and bargains are to be had. Don't know if you have a similar system over there. I agree that many motorists WON'T see you, so you must ride defensively at all times. Give them plenty of room. If a car or other vehicle is waiting to emerge from a side road, or on to a roundabout (circle?) you're already on, try to make eye contact with the driver. If you can't see their eyes, they probably can't see you, so watch for them pulling out in front of you and give them plenty of room. Give yourself plenty of stopping distance, especially in the wet. I'd recommend TWO sets of lights in the winter months; one standard set that cast a beam of light, and one of LED's either high up on the bike, or clipped to your clothing. In the UK you're allowed to have them in 'flashing' mode if they're clipped to your clothing, but not if they're on the bike. If one set of batteries gives out on you, or a bulb blows, you've got a second set still working, so don't have to stop immediately to try to fix it. Carry spare batteries and bulbs if you can, at least the small batteries for the LED lamps. Apart from anything else, two sets make you more visible, and you CAN'T be too visible. Apart from two sets of lamps, I have a brightly coloured crash hat, reflectors on my pedals AND a reflective triangle on my back pack. My son once joked about this, saying he could see me from about half a mile when he drove up behind me. This was EXACTLY what I wanted to hear. I may look like a Christmas tree on wheels, but other road users find it hard to miss me. (No, that doesn't sound right, I meant 'can't fail to see me' ... oh, you know what I meant.) If there are cycle lanes, use them, even if it means going out of your way a little. Better to take a slightly longer but safer route and stand a better chance of arriving unscathed. And finally...... sooner or later you'll crash. I don't know ANY cyclist who travels in the city who hasn't had a bump at some time. It's either on a slippery road surface, or into some idiot who opens a car door without looking in the mirror first, or into a car turning in to your path. If you ride defensively you can minimise the damage to yourself and to your bike. It's worth taking out accident insurance if you can, just in case. Here endeth Slarvibarglhee's reams of advice. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:10:04 +0100 (BST) From: IT Admin - Govt Office North West Subject: Re: Alloy: Questions/ Thomas on VH1 At 19:37 04/05/98 EDT, Robin wrote: > >Hi Michael, > >Welcome to Alloy!! Thug2: "Yeah." Slarv: "Ditto, welcome to Alloy." (Maybe somebody'd better explain 'Thug2:'Yeah'' ...... OK I'll do it myself. For those of you who may not have been subscribers to Alloy at the time, I append, at the end, the posting from Crackers WHICH WILL EXPLAIN ALL .) >I don't know about the person on the roof; I still haven't seen this >particular Pop-Up Video for myself so I'm not even sure to whom it's >referring; if it's true, it's very sad. How does VH1 get all of this >information, does anyone know? Like any other fact based show, they have a team of researchers whose job it is to uncover these little known facts. They're credited at the end of the show. They don't tell you WHERE they got the facts, so it's not possible to tell whether they're genuine, in this case probably only Thomas could tell us. I haven't made a point of watching Pop-Up Video as I find some of the irrelevances irritating. The stuff that's relevant to the artist or video is OK, but they will insist on facts that are not at all related to them as well. Slarv (climbing down from his soap box again) AND NOW, AS PROMISED ------- CRACKERS POSTING ******************************************************************************* >In article <971110080530_1871373588@mrin47>, you wrote: >>I just went back & could finally view crackers picture in the scrapbook - it >>wouldn't let me see it the first couple of times. crackers, you kick ass! >>(pardon my colloquialism) >~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ > >Egad! I've been found out! > >How did you know I was "Kick-Man: The Masked Ass Kicker"? > >Crackers, a mild mannered accordionist ponders the increase of crime in >Hamilton and decides now is the time for action. > >"Criminals are an ignorant, unmotivated lot. What I need is a name that >will enlighten and motivate their hearts. What they need.... > >... is a good ASS KICKING!" > >Now joined by his youthful ward Sphincter, The Boy Orifice he dons a mask >and steel toed boots and takes on the role of Kick-Man, the Masked Ass Kicker, >defender of the city. > >[A dark alley in the decaying downtown core of Hamilton] > >Thug 1: Alright lady hand over your donuts and coffee. > >Thug 2: Yeah. > >Lady: Take off! Go get your own, hose-head. There's a Tim Hortons 50 yards > in any direction in this city. > >Thug 1: Listen lady. Don't piss me off or you'll get what for. > >Thug 2: Yeah. > >Suddenly a triumphant blast rips the air and out of a cloud of gas >steps... KICK-MAN: THE MASKED ASS KICKER and SPHINCTER: THE BOY ORIFICE! > >Kick-Man: You really should do something about that problem Sphincter. > >Sphincter: Sorry Kick-Man, but I had the bean burrito special > at taco bell. > >Thug 1: Aw crap! It's Kick-Man and Sphincter, the Boy Orifice! > >Thug 2: Yeah. > >Kick-Man: Unhand that woman's donuts you foul fiends. Or face the wrath > of my boots of justice. > >Thug 1: Piss off Kick-Man! I want these donuts and I'm taking them. > >Thug 2: Yeah. > >Lady: He's got my coffee too... and I haven't even had a chance to roll up > the rim. > >Kick-Man: The cads! To action Sphincter. Here's a little enema courtesy of > Defasco. > >[Springing into action, Kick-Man swiftly plants his boot into the >rear of Thug 2] > >Thug 2: Ooof! > >[Sphincter wraps his arms around the waist of Thug 1 and exicutes his >trademark "Pinch an Oaf" manouver. But before he succumbs to the >contraction Thug 1 lubricates himself with the filling of a jelly donut >and slips through Spincter's mighty muscled ring] > >Thug 1: Nice try Butt-Boy. But you're not going to make an ass out of me! > >[Thug 1 runs down the alleyway] > >Sphincter: Holy Motion Lotion Kick-Man, that Thug is slipping away! > >Kick-Man: Not if my Boot-a-rang has anything to do with it. > >[Kick-Man hurls his Boot-a-rang down the alley, striking the fleeing >Thug 1 right in the ass. The donut thief does a lip-skid across the >pavement landing in a crumpled heap of discarded condoms and other >assorted Hamilton flora] > >Thug 1: I seem to have erred in my assumption that I would escape. > >Kick-Man: Never make an assumption. It just gives me the umption to > kick your ass. > >Spincter: What the hell does that mean? > >Thug 1: I see now the error of my ways. I was wrong to try and take > this lady's donuts and coffee. I see now that Hamilton is a > land of donut shops all waiting for motivated individuals to > get up off their lazy asses and sit down on a counter stool > for a couple of hours stuffing their faces with delicious > lard and flour snacks and strong coffee. Thank you Kick-Man. > Thank you for giving me a good kick in the ass. > >Thug 2: Yeah! > >Kick-Man: Always happy to enlighten and motivate a citizen of this > fare, yet smelly, city. Now take this twoonie any go forth > and purchase 20 Tim-Bits as a decent law abiding citizen > should. > >Reformed Thug 1: Thanks Kick-Man, and Sphincter, the Boy Orifice. You > two are alright in my books. > >Reformed Thug 2: Yeah! > >[The thugs depart where 20 feet away they find a Tim Horton's and rejoin >society] > >Kick-Man: Our work here is done Sphincter. Let us retreat now to the > Butt Cave. > >Sphincter: Woohoo! > >[And with that the duo disapears into the night] > >Lady: Hey!! Those bastards smooshed my donuts and spilled my coffee! > > THE END > > > CRACKERS > (Keep your ass clean from hell!!!!!!!) > > >-- > >Accordionist - Wethifl Musician - Atari 2600 Collector | /\/\ >*NEW CrAB URL* http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html ***| \^^/ >Bira Bira Devotee - FES Member - Samurai Pizza Cats Fan| =\/= > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:51:24 EDT From: RThurF Subject: Alloy: VH1!!! I just saw an ad for this weekend's My Generation shows... the tension builds! Thomas looks FANTASTIC. I'll have to check our listings; I wonder if they'll list each show according to its guest players, or will I have to lock myself in the apartment with the tv/vcr for a whole day? It's going to be SO MUCH FUN to see Thomas on tv!! Robin ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V3 #121 ***************************