From: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org (alloy-digest) To: alloy-digest@smoe.org Subject: alloy-digest V2 #269 Reply-To: alloy@smoe.org Sender: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-alloy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "alloy-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. alloy-digest Sunday, November 30 1997 Volume 02 : Number 269 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. [DThurkirk@] Re: Alloy: eduction [long] [Eclipse ] Alloy: Radio Silence Vid Review ["Mary A. Brown" ] Alloy: education [long] ["Stephen M. Tilson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:56:43 -0500 (EST) From: DThurkirk@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: eduction/ continued from fear in the "White" City. In a message dated 11/28/97 9:11:38 PM, you wrote: <> I enjoyed your letter and views Bill. I think my view is that the best thing anyone can do about the system, or any social system, is use it in their lives to fulfill the rough purposes, and take responsibility for themselves and fill in the gaps the systems leave. I don't get the impression that anyone on this thread thinks that the educational system is designed to produce mindless factory fodder. I think it's more that there seem to be, on a large scale, many broad failings in education that the worlds governements don't have any real reason to correct. It doesn't hurt america much to have a large percentage of the population reading at a third grade level, as long as enough people are still able to do the brain work. I'm not sure that becoming involved in politics is really a way to improve much though. I think people should work on their own to improve things, work as a substitute teacher, become a teacher or tutor with a community program or in a school. Over all I just think there is a great deal of self education that everyone should be doing. One of the reasons I am an admirer or T.D.R. is that he is a person who educated himself in regard to his current profession. I look at how successful he's been compared to people who I know who've gone to Berklee School of Music (I'm in Boston so they're local to me) and it seems an excellent example of the strengths of a self made person versus a formally educated one. But Bill, please throw in your two cents worth whenever you get the urge. There's no reason to bite your tounge. Hope all is well in your world - --Dave (....everyone stand back. I'll teach these students!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:54:08 -0800 From: Eclipse Subject: Re: Alloy: eduction [long] Dennis S. Alexander wrote: > Continuing my reply to Dave, I'll continue on this message. > Bingo! It's not the fault, or responsibility, of the children but rather > their parents. Children are preprogrammed for success. Example: Show me > just one child who understands the meaning of the word 'no'. You tell > them 'no' and they aren't going to listen because they know what success > is, and they want it! Somehow our society is screwed up. "Act your > age!" "I've heard of people trying that before, it didn't work." Bah > Humbug! Anything is possible if you believe you can. I personally don't > give a damn what discouragement anyone gives me because my parents taught > me and proved to me in themselves and myself that anything is possible! Yes. That is by far the most important, critical thing for anyone to grow up secure, intelligent, emotionally healthy, etc. (Discounting things necessary for survival, like food..) Also why there is only so much you can do by playing with the system...kids in a horrible nasty system with very supportive, intelligent, confidence building parents will still probably do better than kids in a lovely, other-wise healthy supportive environment with parents who don't give a damn. But I still think there's plenty that can and should be changed for the bertter anyway. > I only have one disagreement with your comment. Home schooling isn't > necessarily the answer. True, you get the child away from that horrible > environment and the parent takes first hand in teaching, which is great. > However, how will those children learn how to combat that negativity if > they don't confront it. Again, the child needs their parent to teach > them what is negative and how to combat or ignore it. But if they never > see it, they wont know what to do when they move out on their own and > have to deal with it every single day! Therefore, I strongly believe > that children should go to school but that parents should take a very > active participation in their childs education. And as Dave brought out, > the parent must teach their child about wisdom. The parents AND children take first hand in teaching, you mean. :) No, I don't think that homeschooling is "the answer"... it's -an- answer. It's too impractical for many people is the main reason it wouldn't work. Of course I don't think that everyone "should" homeschool, that would be silly. I just think that many more people should be aware that they have a choice, than are. There's a difference between going to school because everyone else does and it's required by law, and going to school because child and parents have carefully considered all of the alternatives and decided that it was the best, most practical choice for all involved. Although homeschooling has become somewhat mainstream, most people still don't know very much about it, and especially not about unschooling. Around here, "homeschooling" is considered to be school-at-home, with daddy going to work, and mommy putting a blackboard up in the living room and assigning the kids essays and arithmatic problems. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that kind of homeschooling, it works wonderfully for some people, but again, I think people should be aware that there are other options. That the parent doesn't have to be a teacher, or even have to know very much about whatever the child is interested in learning, etc. How will children learn to combat the negativity if they don't confront it? Shall I tell the horror stories of children, even children with loving, well-meaning parents, who have fallen so far into that negativity that they've done drugs, joined gangs, become suicidal... or maybe those who just lose touch, never fit in, have no self-confidence... stuck with lables like "gifted" or "learning disabled" (both of which could potentially have some use or meaning, but are more usually simply harmful to the individual stuck with them), put on drugs like Ritalin (don't even get me started on that), unable to learn, unable to think... kids who get up at five in the morning to take the bus in to school, get home at three or four, say hi to their parents, eat dinner, spend maybe an hour talking to a friend, taking care of pets, etc, take a shower, and are doing homework until they finish, at around two in the morning, when they can finally go to bed...to get up at five the next morning and repeat the cycle? (Yes, I know someone personally who lived like this for several months.) It's not like homeschoolers live in some kind of bubble. They usually are more aware of the greater problems of the world than those in school. As very young kids, they have the security and self confidence they need, as teenagers, dealing with their changing emotions, bodies, and greater awareness of the world, they can reflect on themselves and others without having to worry about day-to-day survival--am I going to be raped by my English teacher, is the guy driving me to the school dance on LSD again? That sort of thing leads to a selfish survivalist attitude, and one that is so down on humanity that it believes there is nothing that can be done, and uses this as an excuse for apathy. Kids with a firmer foundation, much, much more time to learn and develope their talents, etc., are usually not only better able to deal with these situations themselves, but better at looking at how it affects everyone, and more confident that they can make a difference. I can name two homeschoolers off the top of my head who biked across a continent on their own (one was through south america, the other was from connecticut to oregon)... Homeschoolers have more of a chance to interact with the world, and more faith in their ability to change it. More time to volunteer and do things for the environment, the poor, etc (and lots of them do), more interest and more confidence that what they're doing is important. They're also more likely to, like me, take a very intimate interest in education in general, and are for the most part painfully aware of what some of their friends in school have to deal with. Again, they realize that there is a choice and things don't have to be the way they are in the public schools, whereas many schooled kids think that things -must- be like that, that it's horrible but there's no way around it.. which leads to more apathy. There was a study done on US soldiers showing that the ones with a safe, healthy, happy childhood did much better when faced with the extremely negative situations of war and combat, than those who had been dealing with negative situations all their lives--the ones who grew up on the street, were abused as children, etc. I may be off on details, my reference is in a book that I read a while ago, and the book is at the library, so I can't give you the name of the paper right now. Next time I'm at the library I'll see if I can get ahold of the book and look it up. But perhaps you weren't talking about that kind of negativity. Maybe you just meant the busy work, kissing up to teachers, the meaingless interpersonal politics found in any school, college, graduate school or corporate job. Dealing with bureaucracy and people who don't care. I think any of the many kids who've had to go to court over their right to homeschool know more about manipulating the system than many of their counterparts. Homeschoolers to better on standardized tests, a classic example of a pointless, play-the-game activity. Homeschoolers are also I think more likely to get into college than their schooled counterparts, and most of them do very well in college... both getting admitted and doing well, as I'm sure most of you know, require some definite game playing, kissing up, and pointless work to please the professors. More or less of course, depending on the school. Homeschoolers generally have friends in school, and also deal much more with adults and other people of all ages ("socialization" is often a question regarding homeschooling, but in general homeschoolers are better socialized.. I have references for that too, if you'd like me to see if I can find them) who are some what "normal", so there is ample exposure to the typical rather ignorant, apathetic suburban mindset. Even moreso, since they have people's reactions to homeschooling/unschooling to listen to all the time. (Something I've always enjoyed, but many don't..) If a homeschooler really wants to or needs to hold down a 9 - 5 job at a run of the mill corporation, s/he will be able to do it and will probably be able to deal with all of the pointless bureaucratic trappings at least as well as everyone else. While keeping his/her soul relatively intact. Homeschoolers who are for some reason forced to return to public school after many years of freedom also usually do as well or better than their schooled counterparts, because they remember who they are. In both cases, they may well not be as happy as their friends can be, because they have their eyes wide open as to how their life could be different and how screwed up the system is, but they also usually have the security and confidence to live with it when they must without getting violently depressed. I think more important though is that so many grown-up homeschoolers find other ways of making a living that they're happier with, and can support themselves and their families with. Writing, starting their own businesses, finding the rare "good" corporations to work for, etc, etc, etc. Some of them are probably the people who buy a little plot of land in the middle of nowhere and become homesteaders--run to your library and see if they have a copy of the magazine "CountrySide" for more about homesteading... we're talking those people who buck the system entirely and build houses out of strawbales and farm their own food and trade services with their friends and don't have or need much money.. there're more of them than you'd think. They're certainly still a minority though. Yes, wisdom is obviously very important, and certainly something up to the parents and child... > >As you were saying about the government wanting an ignorant > >population--the current school system was indeed designed during the > >industrial era, for the explicit purpose of making mindless factory > >workers. > > Too true. I've finally been learning about "thinking outside of the > box." In the real sense. The corporate world of our society is a sick > structure. I absolutely hate it. I don't care what 'accomplishments' it > has achieved. We were much better off living in villages as farmers, > weavers, blacksmiths and such. But you've always got some idiot who > wants to play god and see how many people he can lord himself over. Heh... Actually, we were MUCH better off as hunter-gatherers, before we invented agriculture, but that's another conversation... > >Anyone here heard of John Holt? > > Sorry, I have to claim ignorance, or forgetfulness on this one. Who is > he? St. John, as Grace Llewellyn calls him, started the modern homeschooling revolution, but mostly was just a wonderful, creative, compassionate, intelligent guy. Wrote a lot of books, his most well-known of which is "Why Children Fail"... was a public school english teacher at one point (just like Grace, and my old friend Kate...)... if you have time and inclination, look him up at your local library and see if they have any of his books. > I appreciated you comments! Keep them coming! Ditto! And I couldn't stop if I tried... ;) I hope we aren't bothering the rest of the people on the list, this has strayed rather far off topic! If anyone objects, I'm willing to take it off the list. -- E(lipse ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:56:01 -0500 From: "Mary A. Brown" Subject: Alloy: Radio Silence Vid Review As promised, here's the article from the 5 June 1982 issue of Melody Maker about the making of the Radio Silence video...Perhaps some of our British list members can enlighten us about a couple of things I didn't get, i.e.what is "Crossroads" and how much this would have cost in US dollars at the time. Enjoy! Europa Screen on the Radio How did Thomas Dolby make his new video? How much did "Radio Silence" cost? What problems did Tom encounter? All this and more as Paul Colbert goes on a fun-filled fact finding foray. Caroline is torn between airwave lovers; deejays competing for her ears and heart. Nervous and tense in a traffic jammed auto, she's pinned by the broadcasts until a conquering jock tugs her into his own radio ward in hospital white. This is his land, a museum of the golden age of wireless and Caroline is destined to be the next exhibit, frozen and sculpted on a corner pedestal. You've probably guessed we're not talking "Crossroads" here. This, very roughly is the plot for "Radio Silence", latest single from the inestimable genius of Thomas Dolby. The single is excellent...there...that was easy, now the hard bit. The task in hand was to convert "Radio Silence" to a video that could be used for promotion and TV, ideally " Top of the Pops", still the country's most important rock video outlet. This is the story of that mission, fought out on the slopes of artistic endeavour, uphill against the winds of financial...etc, etc, etc. A video production can be hacked into a few bite-sized pieces, though getting from one to the other involves plenty of legwork. At the start Tom and art designer Andrew Douglas drew up a story board; about 80 sketches that illustrated camera angles, subjects, cuts and an idea of the lighting. These depicted the plot, indicated what equipment and special effects/props were required and allowed the team to pass on to step two - hiring a film crew. For those of a nervous disposition, here is a warning - we are now going to talk money. EMI had allowed a budget of 8,200 pounds, convinced both by the strength of the song, and Tom's previous artistic success with smaller scale videos of his own. The team had planned for two days of shooting, but reduced it to one when faced by the cost - 3,500 pounds to hire a film crew for a single day. As well as the co-director and producer, the crew included a cameraman and assistant, a lighting cameraman and assistant, three lighting extras and a sound man plus two props ladies (at 500 pounds) and a model builder (400 pounds). The props themselves cost close to a grand and the hire of a studio for the day was 500 pounds. The studio was all important : it had to be white for the proper photographic atmosphere, have curved joints between walls and floor to avoid shadows and be large enough to take a car. That sort of scale is referred to as a "Cyclorama". There are only a few in London and Tom selected Trans Video at St. John's Wood. Timing plays as vital a role in preparation as it does in the flickering of images on screen. The props ladies had to collect anything from a pair of shoes to several old radio grams and a handful of plinths from a garden centre. One scene required wall hung portraits of plinths from a garden centre. All of this had to be ready before the day of shooting...cue dramatic music, cut to harassed director... The vast majority of videos are actually shot on 16mm cine film and then transferred to tape. It's down to the best use of your medium. Film is easier to edit and has truer colour reproduction. Video is excellent for bleach out and electronic special effects but they all involve copying from one tape to another, producing an eventual loss in quality. The programme of shooting was to bear little resemblance to the finished product. For speed and economy, all long shots were done at once as were all closeups and all scenes in the car. There was even a division between lip sync work where Tom was mouthing the song, and abstract shots, when the sound man could take a break. A few dozen yards of butter muslin had to be wound into a dress for Lene and at the end of the day Tom dipped into his own bank balance to keep the crew on to get the final scenes in the can. There was one stroke of luck. Tom wanted a close up of the inside of a radio and the cameraman had shot something similar a few months back. After a brief inspection they purchased 15 seconds of perfect footage for 200 pounds. Editing left the visuals on 16mm film and the soundtrack on magnetic tape with matching sprocket holes. At Molinare Studio the two were run side by side and shuttled a frame at a time until synchronised. Watching on three TV screens, the engineers electronically adjusted the contrast and colour balance before transferring it to inch wide U-Matic format video tape. Video is still a new high technology art and there are few experts or facilities around, which might explain why video editing is so phenomenally expensive - 400 POUNDS AN HOUR. Back in St. John's Wood the budget would allow just three hours for a few tricks. First was slow and reverse motion causing Tom to make a graceful forward summersault between lines. Next Lene's dress was bleached from black to dazzling white (extermination by Daleks brings about a similar result). The radio interior close up had to be electronically overlayed so it looked as if Lene was walking a transistor bridge. This was a technique that needed to be linked to the initial filming. The overlay areas on stage were painted blue, a colour the video equipment could later recognise for the insertion. It's called Chromakey. But the last session saw the greatest scientific blind. Faced by scratches or blobs on the film, the engineers could apply a video "Elastoplast". By pressing the proper computer controls a patch of colour appeared on the screen, had its tone matched to the surroundings and its shape manipulated by joy stick controls. Covering the scratch entirely, it was programmed into the tape where it remained forever...no leaks. It took three, massive machines to do that - one playing the original, another playing the "dub" and a third to record the results. There are analogies with music studios, but the technologies makes them look like tea trolleys. And for the final result...over to Tom: "Atmospherically it was very close to the way we planned it, and that surprised me. "It's warm toned where videos can often be clinical, they're like moving polaroids with no depth to them. This has a spacious dreamy feel, almost timeless. "Directing it was hard because I had to click in and out of the technical, political and social implications of what was going on and concentrate on expressing the music. You can't slip in a line of dialog to explain what's happening." In fact several scenes that appeared on the story board were hacked in production, partly to streamline the story and partly because further, outside location shots weren't affordable. "When you're recording music you can patch together as many as 12 takes so the final song is 100 per cent of the best parts. In film there may be many more technical things to invalidate a take, but you have to live with them. I think there's a breed of promising directors coming through who won't have to worry about the technicalities or stick to a formula." "Radio Silence", the video is an eerie but attractive set of images, and if it's any test, I was as fascinated at the end of the day after seeing fractions and replays time after time, as I was at the start. I'd like to say I helped, but I couldn't even master the video studio hot drinks machine. It swallowed five pee and gave me minestrone coffee. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:52:56 -0500 (EST) From: DThurkirk@aol.com Subject: Alloy: David Bowie Hello, You know I've often wondered if anyone else on alloy is a David Bowie fan. (did you know Thomas played keyboards for him at live aid?) I jsaw David at the Orpheum theater recently (a small venue here in Bostonville) and I've been telling everyone I know to go see him as soon as he comes within 100 miles of their home. So now I've told more of you.....I wonder if Mr Bowie has a mailing list. Dave (could use seven years in tibet right about now) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 11:47:14 -0500 (EST) From: DThurkirk@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: Radio Silence Vid Review My god I miss the early 80's when videos were fun, shot in one day on a shoestring type deals. Tell us more stories about the golden age of video making Mary! Please. Dave (....oh but to have been a Buggle) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:05:07 -0500 (EST) From: DThurkirk@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Alloy: eduction [long] In a message dated 11/29/97 6:05:08 AM, you wrote: <> Not a day goes by where I don't wish I'd been born into a hunter gatherer society. But no...I'm living in a Philip K. Dick novel instead. Enjoyed your account of homeschooling. - --Dave (dreaming of electric sheep) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 97 13:17:21 MST From: "Dan Swan" Subject: Re: Re: Alloy: eduction [long] DThurkirk@aol.com said: - ->Not a day goes by where I don't wish I'd been born into a hunter gatherer - ->society. But no...I'm living in a Philip K. Dick novel instead. PKD rules, but living in one of his novels most definitely wouldn't. Look what happened to Mr. Dick... ............................................................................. "And if you want to Swan, one to one... kid, we don't need a pond." -Prefab Sprout *The above represents the absolute truth, and thus it is impossible for it to be the opinion of either the university, or my employer.* ............................................................................. - - Resources are finite. Population growth is exponential. You do the math. - - Replies to: dswan1@freenet.calgary.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:27:50 -0500 From: "Stephen M. Tilson" Subject: Alloy: education [long] Delicious Dave wrote: > Not a day goes by where I don't wish I'd been born into a hunter = > gatherer society. But no...I'm living in a Philip K. Dick novel = > instead. > = > Enjoyed your account of homeschooling. = > --Dave (dreaming of electric sheep) = None of this goes one whit toward resolving the issue of whether Dave is,= or = is not, a Replicant . . . Roy Batty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:44:47 -0500 (EST) From: crackers@hwcn.org Subject: Alloy: The rant of a DIY-hard In article <971129114713_867700548@mrin58.mail.aol.com>, you wrote: >My god I miss the early 80's when videos were fun, shot in one day on a >shoestring type deals. Tell us more stories about the golden age of video >making Mary! Please. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Tell me about it. Nowadays, it doesn't matter how fun, creative, or interesting your video is. If it is discovered that you didn't spend big bucks producing it, then it'll never see airplay. I don't remember the artist, but they submitted a video to M-TV with a note that the video only cost them $25 to produce. (Their goal was to encrouage people to become DIY-hards (D.o I.t Y.ourself)) M-TV sent them back the video, with a letter stating that they could not show a video that only cost $25 to make when there are people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars producing videos. It wouldn't be fair to them to promote the idea that you can create works of art without spending lots of cash. That was it... their refusal to play the video was not based on any artistic critique of the video itself. It wasn't even based on an issue of the quality of the video itself. No instead it came entirely down to a matter of how much money was (or more importantly was NOT) spent on the production of the video. This pisses me off to no end! I've been a DIY-hard for many, many years. I've become a master of the art of low-tech high-tech production. My entire studio (hell, my entire house) is a monument to low-tech high-tech. My gear is all yesterday's high-tech wonders. Now I find them at the local Goodwill and Sally-Anne for next to nothing but a decade ago they would have cost a fortune. My question is, why if it would have been artistically viable to create works with this gear in the 80's and 70's is it no longer considered artistically viable to create works with them now? I mean I've got some gear that would blow away anything the major studios had back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. So why should my work be taken any less seriously because the gear I'm using is worth next to nothing and is not as powerful or as expensive as the gear out today? If they could produce enduring works of art with what was then cutting edge gear in the 50's, 60's, and 70's why shouldn't the work created on even better (although still outdated) gear be taken seriously? Infact, I think the only people who believe that "Dollars-In = Art-Out" are the people in the business side of the industry. The people who distribute and promote and market artwork. Heck, I put it to you, the people on this list who have tasted but a small sample of my abilities as an artist. My cover of Thomas's "Nuvogue" on the AAMBC tape: Did anyone here who has heard this piece and enjoyed it find themselves enjoying it any less when they discovered that I made the thing myself, in my basement, with inexpensive gear, for the price of two blank cassette tapes? What if I produced something that sounded exactly the same, but in a big studio with lots of technicians, engineers, producers, musicians etc, and blew a big wad of cash in making that cover. Would that somehow increase the artistic "value" of the piece? I really doubt there's anyone here that would answer yes to both questions. I think that most people with a really honest appreciation for art don't care how much money and gear went into making a work of art and really only care about the final product. Infact, if anything I would say that my appreciation of a work of art is enhanced if I discover that it was created on a shoe-string budget with very limited equipment. The work is enhanced through the struggle of the artist with their medium. After all, if there was a machine that just took the ideas in an artist's head and instantly produced them as finished products wouldn't that just cheapen the act of creation? Isn't it the act of creation itself that is the most important part of a production? The mixing of the paints, the sculpting of the stone, the creation of the sounds, all that is part of the final work of art itself, is it not? And isn't the struggle of the birth of a work part of what enhances the work itself? I've heard many people say they wish there was a MIDI interface for the brain so that they could just think of a song and it would be instantly recorded just as they envision it. While I admit that there is a certain appeal to such a notion, I can't envision myself ever using it as anything but a musical sketch pad. When I create a work of art my motivation isn't to have a song to listen to, or a picture to look at. My motivation is the act of creation itself. Completely remove the struggle of creation and you would completely remove my desire to create. 10 years from now I will likely have a nice collection of gear that would all be considered top of the line today. And I'll have likely scrounged it from thrift stores, or have recieved it as cast offs from friends who have upgraded to the latest, greatest thing. But if attitudes in the industry towards the creation of art arn't changed then I'll still be where I am today. Utterly and completely ignored because I'm not playing with the same toys the big boys have. Well they can blow me! I'm just having too much fun with my GI-Joe with the Kung-Fu grip. CRACKERS (Or is that Bun-Fu grip from hell!!!!) - -- Accordionist - Wethifl Musician - Atari 2600 Collector | /\/\ *NEW CrAB URL* http://www.hwcn.org/~ad329/crab.html ***| \^^/ Bira Bira Devotee - FES Member - Samurai Pizza Cats Fan| =\/= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:17:59 -0500 (EST) From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Square Paper Last night I dreamt that I was assigned to work as someone's study assistant. As I walked through a room crowded with people at small tables, working with paper and pencil to solve problems, I tried to guess who I might work with. I heard Thomas' voice call me over to his table. I sat down, and he began handing piles of paper to me in a distracted manner, all of them covered in tiny writing. I began to look them over. The symbols in pencil on these pages were strange to me; I was afraid I wouldn't understand. Then I realized that before I had arrived, he had very carefully cut each sheet of paper with scissors so that it was square, in an effort to make his work more understandable to me. I figure, it must have to do with the clarity of his explanation in this Recording article about Beatnik. Thomas, thanks - the square paper is much appreciated! Robin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:33:32 -0500 (EST) From: DThurkirk@aol.com Subject: Alloy: eduction [long]PKD In a message dated 11/29/97 3:35:17 PM, you wrote: <> Oh come on...the guy saw God personally and I can't even get on the waiting list. Seriously though, I think life on earth has taken a bit of a PKD type turn lately. It has that air of parinoia to it, and scientific advances, such as the home computer, add that extra bit of flair. (have you ever read a story called "A Logic Named Joe. It was all about the internet and written in 1945. Its so accurate that its almost not even science fiction anymore) Sincerely Dave (...Horselover Fat?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 21:52:18 -0500 (EST) From: DThurkirk@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: The rant of a DIY-hard In a message dated 11/29/97 6:20:00 PM, you wrote: <> There is a trick we painters use that goes back quite a ways, and it is used by other creative people who know damn well that their end product is what counts . For the the words "old" and "obsolete" we substitue "vintage" and "original". It goes a long way toward manipulating a cretin while keeping your buget nicely in check. Dave (..."You know the old wax recordings really gave us a quality that the CD can never hope to attain", he said knowingly) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Re: Alloy: DIY rant/intimidation! In a message dated 11/29/97 6:20:00 PM, crackers wrote: <> Hell, crackers, I'm using techniques & tool designs from the 17th century which are still considered artistically viable. The whole high-tech thing (with items becoming obsolete within a year or two of their original production) seems INSANE to me. I'm so curious about how it works, but I refuse to be strung along chasing after the most up-to-date knowledge/equipment I can find, only to have some geek tell me next year that what I just took the time & trouble to learn/invest my money in isn't cool enough anymore. I think it's scaring me off big time. I am planning to get a keyboard soon (I need one if I want to progress with music theory) and I hope to use it in conjunction with computer/sound synthesis programs. I try to learn computer applications as they appeal to me - - but it feels too much like the computer industry is trying to set the average consumer up for a fall, again and again. Violin making, drawing, and embroidery are SO obsolete that I can sit happily out of the mainstream in my little studio, working away, without feeling like I'm in some kind of race against Microsoft, NASA, MIT, etc. grouchy Robin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:52:18 -0500 (EST) From: RThurF@aol.com Subject: Alloy: Resurrection astonishment Weird..!!! does anyone else here ever feel like everything that's happened to them within any given past month is really all woven up together like a great big web? I was ranting about Ryuichi Sakamoto last week, and last night I was ranting about the score for Alien Resurrection. Upon reading the little fold-out that comes with the Resurrection CD, I find that 31-year-old John Frizzell was assisted in his career by none other than Ryuichi Sakamoto, who also was a great influence on him (the music John Frizzell has composed is an incredible blend of orchestra/synth/vocal/samples) Robin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 97 20:59:12 MST From: "Dan Swan" Subject: Re: Alloy: DIY rant/intimidation! RThurF@aol.com said: - -> - -> - ->Hell, crackers, I'm using techniques & tool designs from the 17th century - ->which are still considered artistically viable. The whole high-tech thing - ->(with items becoming obsolete within a year or two of their original - ->production) seems INSANE to me. I'm so curious about how it works, but I - ->refuse to be strung along chasing after the most up-to-date - ->knowledge/equipment I can find, only to have some geek tell me next year that - ->what I just took the time & trouble to learn/invest my money in isn't cool - ->enough anymore. I think it's scaring me off big time. You've got it all figured out Robin. I see the present atmosphere of technophilia to be one of the greatest lies sold to our generation. Unfortunately, I make my living as a techno-prostitute, and ensuring that everyone else is up on the latest and greatest, but I consider it truly tragic how much the average consumer is caught up in this, and really, gets little out of it, other than 'keeping up with the joneses'. This message proudly typed on a stone age Tandy-1000! Dan. ............................................................................. "And if you want to Swan, one to one... kid, we don't need a pond." -Prefab Sprout *The above represents the absolute truth, and thus it is impossible for it to be the opinion of either the university, or my employer.* ............................................................................. - - Resources are finite. Population growth is exponential. You do the math. - - Replies to: dswan1@freenet.calgary.ab.ca ------------------------------ End of alloy-digest V2 #269 ***************************